Polar Vortex

[JohnAndSancho]

This, plus all of the weather warnings on TV are cluttering up the screen while I'm trying to watch the Steelers/Bills game. 

[MarcusH]

2 hours ago, mthteh1916 said:

Exactly. Imagine living in Brownsville TX with all your tropical veg and you hit 12F, which it did. 

Imagine living in Ft. Lauderdale and the eye of a Cat 5 hurricane is just moving over your yard . Same thing my friend . There's a chance of a devastating hurricane every single year in Florida especially in the southern parts of Florida and hurricanes are common over there.  History repeats .

[UK_Palms]

3 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Imagine living in Ft. Lauderdale and the eye of a Cat 5 hurricane is just moving over your yard . Same thing my friend . There's a chance of a devastating hurricane every single year in Florida especially in the southern parts of Florida and hurricanes are common over there.  History repeats .

Extremely valid point to be honest. Major freeze, or major hurricane? Both can devastate an exotic garden, so it's apples and pears really. No one wins. Who would want either!?

Long story short, SoCal is the best area of the USA for growing palms and exotics since you don't have to worry about bad freezes or hurricanes really, even though it means not being able to grow the proper tropical stuff like in southern Florida. I would still rather LA's climate over Miami's though as no category 4-5 hurricanes. It's a no brainer.

[MarcusH]

Just now, UK_Palms said:

Extremely valid point to be honest. Major freeze, or major hurricane? Both can devastate an exotic garden, so it's apples and pears really. No one wins. Who would want either!?

Long story short, SoCal is the best area of the USA for growing palms and exotics since you don't have to worry about bad freezes or hurricanes really, even though it means not being able to grow the proper tropical stuff like in southern Florida. I would still rather LA's climate over Miami's though as no category 4-5 hurricanes. It's a no brainer.

Absolutely agree my friend there's literally almost everything you can grow in SoCal . Not too cold not to hot .  I watch these YT videos of people walking along the coastal beaches in Cali and I'm like wow there's so much beautiful vegetation.  Cali it is. 

 

[Foxpalms]

@UK_Palms How are the temps over there at the moment. Here it's currently 0.5c/32.9f with no frost and 60% humidity. Kew gardens and Northolt are already down to -4.6c.

[Xenon]

5 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Absolutely agree my friend there's literally almost everything you can grow in SoCal . Not too cold not to hot .  I watch these YT videos of people walking along the coastal beaches in Cali and I'm like wow there's so much beautiful vegetation.  Cali it is. 

 

California has always been the antithesis of tropical to me. I hated waking up in the morning in July in San Diego and feeling coolness in the air, just felt so wrong. I'll take hurricanes over droughts, fires, earthquakes and $$$$ water bill. Warmth, humidity, and rainfall is irreplaceable for rampant tropical plant growth. Also, there's just something divine about cutting into a mango in July in Florida, the aroma wafting in the saturated air...so bright and alive. 

[L.A.M.]

18 hours ago, ChicagoPalma said:

Everyone above Dallas, I hope those palms survive up there! No kidding how cold its gonna be. I think my cannas are gonna make it this year. I think most people dont mulch these tropicas well enough and Im going to install a ground temperate sensor. Its like -12 F right now but ground temperature is 2F. It's looking good right now.

I'm convinced at least some will be fine. Dwarf palmettos are native to parts of Oklahoma as well as to Texarkana, and I read that someone near Tulsa had a Birmingham palmetto survive -15 degrees Fahrenheit in February 2021.

[Foxpalms]

That is a big temp difference.  A 33f difference.

 

[UK_Palms]

1 hour ago, Foxpalms said:

@UK_Palms How are the temps over there at the moment. Here it's currently 0.5c/32.9f with no frost and 60% humidity. Kew gardens and Northolt are already down to -4.6c.

Best not to ask. 🙄

I am getting nuked under the clear skies. I make it -4.2C / 24.5F on the sensor near my house and a marginally colder - 4.4C / 24.1F on the sensor at the bottom of my garden. These are the 11:30pm temps.

The PWS station shown below isn’t my own, but the closest one to me. It’s normally pretty accurate, but seems to be running marginally colder there tonight. Maybe a bit less sheltered than my garden perhaps?

Everywhere is getting hit by the frost tonight. I don’t see anywhere being safe really with these -10C hPa’s and clear skies all night. The whole of the UK is getting hit pretty much. Well… there is a couple of places holding up. The usual suspect microclimates.

Northwest coast of Wales around Holyhead, which has a definite microclimate. There are a few crownshafts planted here, including Rhopalostylis Sapida, which are the furthest north in the world at 53N. Holding out there close to 5C / 41F. 100% worth planting more palms in that area.

 

It looks to be +4C / 40F around Penzance and Marizon in southwest Cornwall, where I think you Guerilla planted that Archontophoenix, if I remember correctly…?

Surprisingly areas of inland Cornwall are resisting away from the coast. The temperature would be at least 1C warmer actually along the coastline, but no PWS stations there it seems. A few miles inland  there however it is +2-3C / 36-38F though.

Also the Scilly Isles do what they want lol.

 

The official Met Office station at St Mary's in the Isles of Scilly reached 8.2C / 46F today. The coldest spot was Tulloch Bridge at -10C / 14F in the Scottish Highlands.

 

Edited January 16, 2024 by UK_Palms

[fr8train]

35 minutes ago, Xenon said:

California has always been the antithesis of tropical to me. I hated waking up in the morning in July in San Diego and feeling coolness in the air, just felt so wrong. I'll take hurricanes over droughts, fires, earthquakes and $$$$ water bill. Warmth, humidity, and rainfall is irreplaceable for rampant tropical plant growth. Also, there's just something divine about cutting into a mango in July in Florida, the aroma wafting in the saturated air...so bright and alive. 

I 100% agree with this. I've been to the California coast so many times in summer and it was downright cold.

Everyone raves about that climate, but I'm honestly not a huge fan. Sure it's waaaay better than Michigan or Iowa, but I'd take South Florida's tropical climate any day. I like the heat.

Edited January 16, 2024 by fr8train

[Foxpalms]

Somehow the temperature has slightly risen. 

[MarcusH]

46 minutes ago, Xenon said:

California has always been the antithesis of tropical to me. I hated waking up in the morning in July in San Diego and feeling coolness in the air, just felt so wrong. I'll take hurricanes over droughts, fires, earthquakes and $$$$ water bill. Warmth, humidity, and rainfall is irreplaceable for rampant tropical plant growth. Also, there's just something divine about cutting into a mango in July in Florida, the aroma wafting in the saturated air...so bright and alive. 

There's a place for everyone I love Florida don't get me wrong I wasn't downgrading it just pointing out the possibility of what you can grow there but I agree with you . 

[MarcusH]

22 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

Best not to ask. 🙄

I am getting nuked under the clear skies. I make it -4.2C / 24.5F on the sensor near my house and a marginally colder - 4.4C / 24.1F on the sensor at the bottom of my garden. These are the 11:30pm temps.

The PWS station shown below isn’t my own, but the closest one to me. It’s normally pretty accurate, but seems to be running marginally colder there tonight. Maybe a bit less sheltered than my garden perhaps?

Everywhere is getting hit by the frost tonight. I don’t see anywhere being safe really with these -10C hPa’s and clear skies all night. The whole of the UK is getting hit pretty much. Well… there is a couple of places holding up. The usual suspect microclimates.

Northwest coast of Wales around Holyhead, which has a definite microclimate. There are a few crownshafts planted here, including Rhopalostylis Sapida, which are the furthest north in the world at 53N. Holding out there close to 5C / 41F. 100% worth planting more palms in that area.

 

It looks to be +4C / 40F around Penzance and Marizon in southwest Cornwall, where I think you Guerilla planted that Archontophoenix, if I remember correctly…?

Surprisingly areas of inland Cornwall are resisting away from the coast. The temperature would be at least 1C warmer actually along the coastline, but no PWS stations there it seems. A few miles inland  there however it is +2-3C / 36-38F though.

Also the Scilly Isles do what they want lol.

 

Looks like we're all experiencing the 1980s in a milder version.  No matter El Nino or La Nina it didn't really make a difference.  It's too damn cold . When I came back from work my washies showed very minor damage on the leaves but I will know more Wednesday afternoon.  We are all not amused. 

[philinsydney]

The south polar vortex is very tight at the moment, unlike the north pole. This is allowing very muggy air to drift into Australia from the Pacific. High pressure in the southern ocean is blocking cold fronts.

[KsLouisiana]

6 hours ago, jwf1983 said:

We had our lowest minimum (tie) of the winter so far at 26 degrees F.  Colder nights to come.  To this point we’ve had just 7 nights dip below freezing for brief periods at dawn, with one of those nights lasting 6 hours at 26 degrees (November 29, 2023) 4 Sagos, Trachy f. Majesty Palm, Ponytail Palm, Strawberry Guava. So far ok. 

Bro don't over estimate yourself.  My inlaws live up there and you can't even compare the cold. Y'all freeze all the time. I have Hibiscus blooming right now. They'll be frozen by morning but still 🤣 She also tries saying it's as hot and humid there as Louisiana 😂

[MarcusH]

9 minutes ago, philinsydney said:

The south polar vortex is very tight at the moment, unlike the north pole. This is allowing very muggy air to drift into Australia from the Pacific. High pressure in the southern ocean is blocking cold fronts.

Hold on man lol you make me dizzy you're all upside down but isn't it summer over there ? 

[ChicagoPalma]

Enjoying Colorado while my palm tree sits in a zone 9 winter.

[PalmsNC]

Doing good over here, much of the state was in the 60s. 50 up here though. I’m escaping with a zone 8b winter if the forecast proves right and February isn’t horrible. So far in the 2020s every winter in Raleigh has been 9a except for the year of 2022 when it hit 10 in December . Pretty impressive , I’m not complaining . Models even show a big warm up later this month with mid 70s and dews in the mid 60s. I’ll take. Hopefully cold never again for us all.

[SeanK]

I see that ATL weather reports call for a double dose of cold; Tues/Wed nights and Thurs/Fri nights. 

[RJ]

15 minutes ago, SeanK said:

I see that ATL weather reports call for a double dose of cold; Tues/Wed nights and Thurs/Fri nights. 

Yes same here, this weekend will be the coldest of the rounds. Tuesday night isn’t a big deal here I’ll stay in the upper 20’s… this weekend probably low 20’s. 😬

[Las Palmas Norte]

6 hours ago, Chester B said:

I'm currently sitting at 28F with the odd bit of snow.  Definitely not what I was expecting moving here, hopefully this is the last I see of it.

I'm laughing, not at you, but thinking that's seems like something that would happen to me. 🤣

[Foxpalms]

I wonder how that CIDP near Lambeth bridge is doing, after the council stupidly decided to transplant and cut a lot of fronds off it at the end of Nov during that cold spell we had late Nov/early December.  

have

Edited January 16, 2024 by Foxpalms

[Foxpalms]

[UK_Palms]

Nowhere in London is getting away without a frost tonight. Nowhere. The absolute mildest spots in the city at street level are at freezing (0C / 32F) at 3am and will drop a bit lower in the coming hours. This is quite a significant freeze tonight. The temperature is stalled at -5.3C / 22F for me here in the rural countryside. So about 5C colder than central London.

The Met Office station at St Catherine’s Point near Ventnor on the Isle of Wight is reporting +1.4C / 35F at 3am. Quite a few official Met stations are still above freezing, especially in coastal areas. Portland in Dorset is also reporting +1.5C / 35F.

Here are the highest 20 official Met stations right now that are above freezing. Belmullet is the warmest official station in the UK as of 3am at +6.2C / 43C, which is even warmer than the Isles of Scilly. Quite a lot of official stations aren’t visible either to the public, so there will probably be others that would make this list.

 

15 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

I wonder how that CIDP near Lambeth bridge is doing, after the council stupidly decided to transplant and cut a lot of fronds off it at the end of Nov during that cold spell we had late Nov/early December.  

have

I was sent some photos recently of it in the new location in nearby Pimlico. Make of it what you will. This freeze won’t do it any favours having been recently transplanted from the previous location.

 

[Foxpalms]

I hit 31f/-0.5c at 3.30am the temperature climbed slightly and currently is staying the same. That's near the bottom of the garden over the grass exposed. Under tree canopy it's just barley above freezing.  Very clear skies at the moment. 

Edited January 16, 2024 by Foxpalms

[SeanK]

This polar vortex is getting big for the SE US. 41° and rain right now, temps dropping all day. I need to oil the locks and door gaskets on the cars. Hope we don't lose power. Forecast low has now dropped to 12°F (-11°C).

[Sabal King]

Currently 12f in NTX, but we start climbing up today, and tomorrow is a rapid move to nearly 45..... we're ALMOST done y'all.  What will be intersting is seeing how all of these palms do with next week when we get a week of rain, quite a bit of rain... to get them moving again and recovering from this non-sense.

[Robert Cade Ross]

21-22° this morning curious how all the new queen palms look over the next few days lol ………… #AlvinTX

[Swolte]

First night. Temperatures stayed around 17F for me so I take that as a big win. One more big test tomorrow and the worst should be behind us. Some pipes froze (forgot to drip the bathtub) but that's about it. Hope roads recover and daycares open again soon.

~ S 

[knikfar]

21 hours ago, _nevi said:

The most soul-crushing part is that these outbreaks always seem to be stuck in Texas. They just don't move an inch east anymore.

Those specific fronts may not move but other parts of the south get their fair share of record cold to. The winter of 2018 brought a low of 4f here in Raleigh. In fact, we've had single digit temps in four of the last 10 winters after a streak of 13 winters with no single digits. 

Edited January 16, 2024 by knikfar

[AcerPALMatum]

Getting down to low 20s here in the FL panhandle. This is probably happening because I just planted a queen palm here. Sorry y'all are being caught in the crossfire hahaha.

[Xenon]

23 minutes ago, knikfar said:

Those specific fronts may not move but other parts of the south get their fair share of record cold to. The winter of 2018 brought a low of 4f here in Raleigh. In fact, we've had single digit temps in four of the last 10 winters after a streak of 13 winters with no single digits. 

I miss the 13 winter streak of 9b/10a in Houston, when is it coming again 😭??? Those were the days! Please no more zone 8 nonsense 

 

18F this morning where I am

18F at IAH (avg annual low: 26F, departure: -8F)

20F in central Houston and Hobby (28F, -8F)

24F in Galveston (32F, -8F) 

Departure from average in past 4 winters at Hobby: 

-8F, -11F, -1F, -13F

😭

[knikfar]

4 minutes ago, Xenon said:

I miss the 13 winter streak of 9b/10a in Houston, when is it coming again 😭??? Those were the days! Please no more zone 8 nonsense 

 

18F this morning where I am

18F at IAH (avg annual low: 26F, departure: -8F)

20F in central Houston and Hobby (28F, -8F)

24F in Galveston (32F, -8F) 

Departure from average in past 4 winters at Hobby: 

-8F, -11F, -1F, -13F

😭

There are still SOOO many palms you can grow with those temps without protection. I have no trunking, pinnate leaf palms that are reliably hardy here in Raleigh. I planted a butia in my yard in 2021. I've had to protect it a few nights of the year each year since I did. We have a forecast low of 16f this week and I think I'm done trying to protect it. If it survives, great. If not, I give up. 

[Xenon]

12 minutes ago, knikfar said:

There are still SOOO many palms you can grow with those temps without protection. I have no trunking, pinnate leaf palms that are reliably hardy here in Raleigh. I planted a butia in my yard in 2021. I've had to protect it a few nights of the year each year since I did. We have a forecast low of 16f this week and I think I'm done trying to protect it. If it survives, great. If not, I give up. 

The butia should be ok, just keep ice out of the crown. Lots of 1980s single digit survivors here so they are very hardy 

Edited January 16, 2024 by Xenon

[Robert Cade Ross]

50 minutes ago, AcerPALMatum said:

Getting down to low 20s here in the FL panhandle. This is probably happening because I just planted a queen palm here. Sorry y'all are being caught in the crossfire hahaha.

lol 

[Chester B]

I bottomed out at 19F.  I have noticed being right on the shore of Lake Houston gives me a 1-2 degree bump over homes just a little further from the shore.  Tonight will be the second cold night and tomorrow will warm up significantly.  My garage stayed over 55F which is good to know in case I need to pull potted plants in the future.

[Xenon]

14 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I bottomed out at 19F.  I have noticed being right on the shore of Lake Houston gives me a 1-2 degree bump over homes just a little further from the shore.  Tonight will be the second cold night and tomorrow will warm up significantly.  My garage stayed over 55F which is good to know in case I need to pull potted plants in the future.

Advective freeze like this absolutely destroys any microclimates even water moderation to a great degree, nothing is going to stop the 20-30 mph northwest wind. 

[Chester B]

Just now, Xenon said:

Advective freeze like this absolutely destroys any microclimates even water moderation to a great degree, nothing is going to stop the 20-30 mph northwest wind. 

It's only one data point, so I'll watch the trend going forward.  But even with the wind, the weather stations within a few hundred feet of the lake (both sides) all showed the differential.  The roads my way all remained dry so that was a good thing too.

I was at one of the Houston Garden Centers the other day,  and they had massive queens for $60.  So I'll probably bite, the only issue is how to get them home, I think they were at least 12' tall.  5' Washingtonia for $35 so I'll be heading back to buy a few of those as well to have some quick growing palms while all the ones I brought with me get some size. 

[MarcusH]

48 minutes ago, Chester B said:

It's only one data point, so I'll watch the trend going forward.  But even with the wind, the weather stations within a few hundred feet of the lake (both sides) all showed the differential.  The roads my way all remained dry so that was a good thing too.

I was at one of the Houston Garden Centers the other day,  and they had massive queens for $60.  So I'll probably bite, the only issue is how to get them home, I think they were at least 12' tall.  5' Washingtonia for $35 so I'll be heading back to buy a few of those as well to have some quick growing palms while all the ones I brought with me get some size. 

They have them here too for 60 bucks . You can't go wrong with it even it gets killed buy another one. 

[MarcusH]

5 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

They have them here too for 60 bucks . You can't go wrong with it even it gets killed buy another one. 

18/19 degrees was the lowest we've seen on the NE side of San Antonio. One more night of 18F than we're out of the woods in the afternoon.