Polar Vortex

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

I miss the 13 winter streak of 9b/10a in Houston, when is it coming again 😭??? Those were the days! Please no more zone 8 nonsense 

 

18F this morning where I am

18F at IAH (avg annual low: 26F, departure: -8F)

20F in central Houston and Hobby (28F, -8F)

24F in Galveston (32F, -8F) 

Departure from average in past 4 winters at Hobby: 

-8F, -11F, -1F, -13F

😭

That sucks I feel your pain. Our winter is just a regular 8b winter over here in SA . We usually get 8b winters like 2 to 3 times within 10 years but this is the 3rd time in a row where it gets this cold. 

[Manalto]

27° last night, 18° expected tonight. Sleet this morning!

 

 

[Swolte]

Nice shots! Good luck, I guess you miss that overhead protection from that large oak (?? I recall).

[Xenon]

Worst case scenario aka my forecast tonight. Back to square zero 😭

[Robert Cade Ross]

2 hours ago, Xenon said:

Advective freeze like this absolutely destroys any microclimates even water moderation to a great degree, nothing is going to stop the 20-30 mph northwest wind. 

Looks like our 30 new oleanders planted in may are damaged the leaves are mushy 🥴

[Las Palmas Norte]

18 minutes ago, Cade said:

Looks like our 30 new oleanders planted in may are damaged the leaves are mushy 🥴

I have one that just went thru our polar freezes. It did freeze to the ground once before but flushed a mess of growth the following spring. Dry roots seem to be key to cold snaps.

[computadude]

New member here from the Florida panhandle (Niceville). This is going to be my 2nd winter here (moved from So-Cal) and the 1st winter for these palm trees (they were planted last year around May). I covered five Washingtonias (only 3 can be seen on the pic) and three Queen palms. I wrapped a pipe heater around the queens (see coils on the pic) and will wrap Reflectix around them to keep the warmth in.

I left one Washingtonia uncovered as a control group and also have a fourth queen just wrapped (no pipe heater coil).

I think I'm ready for tonight. As of right now, they forecast 22 F. 

 

 

[MarcusH]

What the heck is going on man ? NWS changed our morning low from 18 to 14 degrees  for tomorrow .Are you serious?  Wonder if my Mexican fan palm is going to make it as well as my young Filifera/Filibustas . I'm so tired of this extreme weather . I should have just planted Sabal Palmettos . I'm not going to start protecting my washies if they don't make it I'm not going to put the same palms in the ground.  Tired of this polar vortex. 

[Foxpalms]

The low here last night was 30.2f/-1c in central London. Unlike last year nothing looks damaged due to the fact the air is cold and dry. It also helped that the high was 41f/5c with 48% humidity and the sun warmed things up.

[Foxpalms]

14 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

What the heck is going on man ? NWS changed our morning low from 18 to 14 degrees  for tomorrow .Are you serious?  Wonder if my Mexican fan palm is going to make it as well as my young Filifera/Filibustas . I'm so tired of this extreme weather . I should have just planted Sabal Palmettos . I'm not going to start protecting my washies if they don't make it I'm not going to put the same palms in the ground.  Tired of this polar vortex. 

Probably worth protecting the Filifera/Filibustas as once they get larger they will be hardier.

[Robert Cade Ross]

3 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

What the heck is going on man ? NWS changed our morning low from 18 to 14 degrees  for tomorrow .Are you serious?  Wonder if my Mexican fan palm is going to make it as well as my young Filifera/Filibustas . I'm so tired of this extreme weather . I should have just planted Sabal Palmettos . I'm not going to start protecting my washies if they don't make it I'm not going to put the same palms in the ground.  Tired of this polar vortex. 

21 here now . So funnnnnnnn drove around town earlier the robustas already have that look to them like they are fried ….

[_nevi]

@UK_Palms @MarcusH

Eastern South America is also "blessed" (though depends on how one feels about humidity and rainfall):

• solid tropical summer growing conditions in places like Rio, Santos, Ubatuba, Floripa, Buenos AIres, etc
• no tropical cyclones ...
• ... while also not being "equatorial" (hence, you get cool-season "comfort," no heat and humidity year-round).

[_nevi]

22 hours ago, Xenon said:

California has always been the antithesis of tropical to me. I hated waking up in the morning in July in San Diego and feeling coolness in the air, just felt so wrong. I'll take hurricanes over droughts, fires, earthquakes and $$$$ water bill. Warmth, humidity, and rainfall is irreplaceable for rampant tropical plant growth. Also, there's just something divine about cutting into a mango in July in Florida, the aroma wafting in the saturated air...so bright and alive. 

 

21 hours ago, fr8train said:

I 100% agree with this. I've been to the California coast so many times in summer and it was downright cold.

Everyone raves about that climate, but I'm honestly not a huge fan. Sure it's waaaay better than Michigan or Iowa, but I'd take South Florida's tropical climate any day. I like the heat.

Overall, there is no "hot, wet summer" on any western continental boundary until you get deep enough into tropical latitudes (and even the equator isn't enough in western South America. Just look at Manta, Ecuador to see what I mean).

I agree with you both in that med climates aren't my ideal either (as I dislike dryness during summer).  With that said, the overall coolness, other than enhancing "ideal human roomtemp comfort", should also aid in slowing down evapotranspirative effects compared to the same dryness with hotter temps.

Of course, you can get "wetter med climates" towards San Francisco, then up Eureka then Brookings, Oregon ... but then you're getting chillier in summer and soggier/rainier in winter (i.e. "less tropical").

Overall, "tropical" in southern, coastal California (drier climate notwithstanding) can best approximate the "tropical" that shows up in areas like New Zealand, areas of South Africa, etc.

 

 

[UK_Palms]

I bottomed out at -6.6C / 20F last night in the rural countryside. Much colder than I was hoping and around the freeze damage territory for CIDP and Washie hybrids.

I wasn’t even able to finish my winter protection properly after work, or wrap the Queen palm either last night, since I have been ill with Covid. Tested positive yesterday evening and feel like crap. I ain't woke or anything and I'm fed up of the whole Covid hysteria, but I did a test as it will at least validate me having a few days off work to recover and focus on getting the garden sorted and protected, since this freeze event is not over.

Anyway, I had no energy after work yesterday, so the Queen went through the -6.6C / 20F unprotected basically. I dragged myself outside to throw some tarpaulin over the bananas and wrap a few things up, but I didn't even get round to protecting the Queens. Or the CIDP. They took the brunt of it last night. Temps only recovered to +5.7C / 42F here this afternoon as well. I suppose that is still 12C / 23F worth of daytime recovery though at 51N latitude. I’ll take that.

Even Kew Gardens in southwest London went down to -5.9C / 21F last night, although that is outside of the main UHI and in a large open green space. The station is pretty exposed there in the middle of the main lawn. Or the ‘dust bowl’ that it seems to turn into most summers nowadays.

 

-2C / 28F at Battersea Heliport in central London as well last night, which was surprising. Then again we are in the depths of winter now up at 51N latitude, so, well… -2C isn’t THAT bad really in the grand scheme of things. Compared to some of the temperatures that other folks are enduring!

 

+1.3C / 35F minimum at the official Met Office station at Camborne in Cornwall last night. One of about 25 ‘official’ stations to not register an air frost.

 

It looks like Falmouth in Cornwall dropped down to -0.5C / 31F last night as well, although it recovered to +8.1C / 46F this afternoon. That recovery will help mitigate any damage from the light frost there. Hopefully the Archotnophoenix, Kentia and Queens are okay at Lamorran Gardens. It was surprisingly one of the colder areas of Cornwall with quite a few places escaping frosts, especially on the north shore.

The Paignton area of Devon also recovered to +8C / 46F as well I see. They would have gone down to about -2C / 28F last night. Maybe a bit warmer right on the coast. Another notoriously mild spot that still got hit last night though.

While tonight is only supposed to drop down to -3C / 26F, tomorrow night now looks like the coldest night with -7C / 19F forecast for my area. Although compared to Dallas, San Antonio and even Houston area, my lows probably still aren’t as bad. Certainly nothing like what Dallas has experienced anyway. The Atlantic influence should be returning on Saturday or Sunday for us thankfully.

 

Right now it is -1.1C / 30F at 10:30pm. I have some cloud cover this time round though, unlike last night, which makes a MASSIVE difference!

Edited January 16 by UK_Palms

[mthteh1916]

4 hours ago, Manalto said:

27° last night, 18° expected tonight. Sleet this morning!

 

 

Wow the forecast for Mobile got much colder. Tonight forecast low of 17F. I have been to Mobile several times and enjoyed the many palms. At what temp do the washingtonia robusta die? That Bel Air mall planted loads of robusta a few years ago and i would hate to see them become telephone poles. 

[KsLouisiana]

9 hours ago, Cade said:

21-22° this morning curious how all the new queen palms look over the next few days lol ………… #AlvinTX

Don't worry. It went down to 20 at my house so you got me beat lol. Did this

Edited January 16 by KsLouisiana

[Manalto]

4 hours ago, Swolte said:

Nice shots! Good luck, I guess you miss that overhead protection from that large oak (?? I recall).

Good memory! I do indeed miss the massive overhead protection and I'm going to miss the shade even more this summer.

All that's left of the oak is the stump grindings you see in the background of the Livistona photo, covered with sleet-snow.

Edited January 16 by Manalto

[mthteh1916]

10 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

I bottomed out at -6.6C / 20F last night in the rural countryside. Much colder than I was hoping and around the freeze damage territory for CIDP and Washie hybrids. I wasn’t even able to finish my winter protection properly after work, or wrap the Queen palm either last night, since I have been ill with Covid. Tested positive yesterday evening and feel like crap.

Had no energy after work, so the Queen went through the -6.6C / 20F unprotected basically. Temps only recovered to +5.7C / 42F here this afternoon as well. I suppose that is still 12C / 23F worth of daytime recovery though at 51N latitude. I’ll take that.

Even Kew Gardens in southwest London went down to -5.9C / 21F last night, although that is outside of the main UHI and in a large open green space. The station is pretty exposed there in the middle of the main lawn. Or the ‘dust bowl’ that it seems to turn into most summers nowadays.

 

-2C / 28F at Battersea Heliport in central London as well last night, which was surprising. Then again we are in the depths of winter now up at 51N latitude, so, well… -2C isn’t THAT bad really in the grand scheme of things. Compared to some of the temperatures that other folks are enduring!

 

+1.3C / 35F minimum at the official Met Office station at Camborne in Cornwall last night. One of about 25 ‘official’ stations to not register an air frost.

 

It looks like Falmouth in Cornwall dropped down to -0.5C / 31F last night as well, although it recovered to +8.1C / 46F this afternoon. That recovery will help mitigate any damage from the light frost there. Hopefully the Archotnophoenix, Kentia and Queens are okay at Lamorran Gardens. It was surprisingly one of the colder areas of Cornwall with quite a few places escaping frosts, especially on the north shore.

The Paignton area of Devon also recovered to +8C / 46F as well I see. They would have gone down to about -2C / 28F last night. Maybe a bit warmer right on the coast. Another notoriously mild spot that still got hit last night though.

While tonight is only supposed to drop down to -3C / 26F, tomorrow night now looks like the coldest night with -7C / 19F forecast for my area. Although compared to Dallas, San Antonio and even Houston area, my lows probably still aren’t as bad. Certainly nothing like what Dallas has experienced anyway. The Atlantic influence should be returning on Saturday or Sunday for us thankfully.

 

Right now it is -1.1C / 30F at 10:30pm. I have some cloud cover this time round though, unlike last night, which makes a MASSIVE difference!

That shouldn't damage anything staying in zone 9. Places on the US Gulf Coast and even Houston are going down to 8b, in some cases 15F at Mobile Regional Airport out in the sticks. This is really bad and on par with the 2014 Vortex which killed a lot of washies on the gulf coast. 

[Manalto]

3 minutes ago, mthteh1916 said:

Wow the forecast for Mobile got much colder. Tonight forecast low of 17F. I have been to Mobile several times and enjoyed the many palms. At what temp do the washingtonia robusta die? That Bel Air mall planted loads of robusta a few years ago and i would hate to see them become telephone poles. 

They've been through 17° a couple of times now and seem okay, or at least they've recovered. There's a car dealership on Dauphin Street with date palms. I'll have to see how they do after tonight.

[mthteh1916]

3 minutes ago, Manalto said:

They've been through 17° a couple of times now and seem okay, or at least they've recovered. There's a car dealership on Dauphin Street with date palms. I'll have to see how they do after tonight.

Date palms at mobile regional airport were defoliated but survived after a night of 14F in 2014. I went and looked at them in 2016 and they had fully regrown crowns. Same for those in downtown Mobile. 

[mthteh1916]

4 minutes ago, Manalto said:

They've been through 17° a couple of times now and seem okay, or at least they've recovered. There's a car dealership on Dauphin Street with date palms. I'll have to see how they do after tonight.

usually downtown Mobile airport stays a bit warmer than the regional airport. But the forecast for downtown on NWS is showing 17. This vortex sucks. 

[mthteh1916]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

What the heck is going on man ? NWS changed our morning low from 18 to 14 degrees  for tomorrow .Are you serious?  Wonder if my Mexican fan palm is going to make it as well as my young Filifera/Filibustas . I'm so tired of this extreme weather . I should have just planted Sabal Palmettos . I'm not going to start protecting my washies if they don't make it I'm not going to put the same palms in the ground.  Tired of this polar vortex. 

It seems as if Texas is going thru the 1980's again.  Weird thing is the subtropical jet isn't doing its thing like it is supposed to in a strong eastern based El Nino. I don't get it. It seems no matter what we keep getting these really bad polar outbreaks. 

[Las Palmas Norte]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

What the heck is going on man ? NWS changed our morning low from 18 to 14 degrees  for tomorrow .Are you serious?  Wonder if my Mexican fan palm is going to make it as well as my young Filifera/Filibustas . I'm so tired of this extreme weather . I should have just planted Sabal Palmettos . I'm not going to start protecting my washies if they don't make it I'm not going to put the same palms in the ground.  Tired of this polar vortex. 

Meanwhile up on Vancouver Island the real cold is gone. Currently 45°F / 7°C this afternoon with sun cloud mix. We're not completely free of issues just yet. Forecasters are saying snow overnight and into tomorrow. One last insult before back to normal. Hang in there man. Maybe Sabal mexicana (texana) might be a better choice if you lose your Washingtonia?

Edited January 16 by Las Palmas Norte

[Manalto]

38 minutes ago, mthteh1916 said:

This vortex sucks. 

Well, to be fair, that's its job.

[Robert Cade Ross]

Freeze 1 

seifrizii 0 😆😆😆 

[Dartolution]

37 minutes ago, Manalto said:

Well, to be fair, that's its job.

HAHAHAHA @Manalto forever whitty still I see! LOL 

I wondered how you did down there.... Low of 17.8F here according to my monitors... projected low of 13F tonight.... we shall see.... its 19F out there now. 

I posted some images of my little backyard. It does not look good. Palms are still covered in a lovely glaze of ice as it did not get above 26F during the day today.

 

[_nevi]

@MarcusH @Xenon @Manalto

Hope with all your souls that this verifies ... 

Edited January 17 by _nevi

[L.A.M.]

Why is Murfreesboro expected to get to -3 degrees Fahrenheit when other areas of Middle Tennessee aren't expected to get quite as cold? That's bizarre given its low elevation and position in the middle of the state, and I initially halfway agreed with @Allen that whoever made those models should be "fired," but the forecast there hasn't changed. Other areas of the Inner Nashville Basin (Lebanon, Shelbyville, Lewisburg and Columbia) aren't expected to get quite as cold either, so it clearly can't be a temperature inversion alone.

Also, if anyone in Murfreesboro does have unprotected Birmingham, Brazoria or Louisiana palmettos that have grown above ground, I'm pretty curious to know how they weather this should it actually get as cold as expected (or worse); any cabbage palmettos and Chinese windmill palms that survived December 2022 are probably pretty done for (in the state in general outside of Chattanooga), though. I also really hope this snow insulates what's left of my Carolina cherry laurels that got killed to nearly the ground in December '22!

[Allen]

27 minutes ago, L.A.M. said:

Why is Murfreesboro expected to get to -3 degrees Fahrenheit when other areas of Middle Tennessee aren't expected to get quite as cold? That's bizarre given its low elevation and position in the middle of the state, and I initially halfway agreed with @Allen that whoever made those models should be "fired," but the forecast there hasn't changed. Other areas of the Inner Nashville Basin (Lebanon, Shelbyville, Lewisburg and Columbia) aren't expected to get quite as cold either, so it clearly can't be a temperature inversion alone.

Also, if anyone in Murfreesboro does have unprotected Birmingham, Brazoria or Louisiana palmettos that have grown above ground, I'm pretty curious to know how they weather this should it actually get as cold as expected (or worse); any cabbage palmettos and Chinese windmill palms that survived December 2022 are probably pretty done for (in the state in general outside of Chattanooga), though. I also really hope this snow insulates what's left of my Carolina cherry laurels that got killed to nearly the ground in December '22!

I have no idea what's going on.  It's 6 at my weather station just now and the forecast dropped to -4F.  Sabals will survive but defoliate because the growing point is underground and the current soil temp is 31F here

Edited January 17 by Allen

[Robert Cade Ross]

11 minutes ago, _nevi said:

@MarcusH @Xenon @Manalto

Hope with all your souls that this verifies ... 

Cloud cover tonight? 

[Xenon]

It's not a normal cold front when it annihilates the daily record lows and daily record low highs in mid January, not even close 

 

The nightmare continues with more all time record cold tomorrow

 

Fingers crossed for my citrus 😭

 

[Keys6505]

So apparently the cold wasn't enough and Texas had to F with me a little more and back it up with some wind.  The cover must have blown off my Rhapis last night and I didn't notice until about 3pm today.  My low was around 20 I think.  This has done well through the upper teens with cover but with the ice on it it's gonna be a mess.

[UK_Palms]

I have risen back above freezing again here now and currently reporting +0.4C / 33F at 2am. The cloud cover has really saved me me tonight as the temperature had dropped to -2.4C / 27F earlier around 8pm under the clear skies. I was fearing the worst again.

Thankfully it has clouded over, although that will likely limit daytime recovery tomorrow too. Anyway tonight is nowhere near as bad as last night and my attention/focus can turn to tomorrow night, which could be the worst of this freeze.

There are numerous stations above freezing (0C / 32F) right now. Quite a few places that haven’t even registered a frost in recent nights.

The official Met Office station at St James Park in London is reporting +0.4C / 33F at 2am.

Battersea Heliport in London is reporting +1.2C  / 34F at 2am.

 

The Torquay / Paignton area is around 4-5C / 40F tonight.

The Falmouth area is also looking balmy tonight compared to the previous night.

 

I think I speak for everyone though when I say that spring just needs to hurry up and get its ass here now. I am done with this winter. Far too much rain and now this freeze too. I need some proper sun and warmth again. 🙄

[Robert Cade Ross]

22 minutes ago, Xenon said:

It's not a normal cold front when it annihilates the daily record lows and daily record low highs in mid January, not even close 

 

The nightmare continues with more all time record cold tomorrow

 

Fingers crossed for my citrus 😭

 

My Meyer has some wilted leaves so decided to protect it lol 🤞🤞

[Matthew92]

5 hours ago, computadude said:

New member here from the Florida panhandle (Niceville). This is going to be my 2nd winter here (moved from So-Cal) and the 1st winter for these palm trees (they were planted last year around May). I covered five Washingtonias (only 3 can be seen on the pic) and three Queen palms. I wrapped a pipe heater around the queens (see coils on the pic) and will wrap Reflectix around them to keep the warmth in.

I left one Washingtonia uncovered as a control group and also have a fourth queen just wrapped (no pipe heater coil).

I think I'm ready for tonight. As of right now, they forecast 22 F. 

Welcome! You live right in my neck of the woods!

[thyerr01]

@Keys6505 I didn't cover my similarly sized Rhapis as I was thinking we were in for -4 C not -8 C (25 f vs 18 f). That might have been a mistake, but the worst outcome is probably just the loss of some canes. Mine likes to throw up new growth away from the main clump, so they seem to have a good system of underground rhizomes. 

@Xenon Your citrus is looking like mine. I assume all your crownshaft stuff has lights on it.

And my neighbours were asking back in December whether I was going to put up any lights...

 

[Xenon]

4 minutes ago, thyerr01 said:

@Keys6505

@Xenon Your citrus is looking like mine. I assume all your crownshaft stuff has lights on it.

And my neighbours were asking back in December whether I was going to put up any lights...

 

 

Yep the yard is full of body bags..."cold hardy" citrus didn't make the cut. Wish they had a few years to mature before this, I did mulch the graft for the worst case scenario 

[Xenon]

51 minutes ago, Cade said:

My Meyer has some wilted leaves so decided to protect it lol 🤞🤞

I hope you planted a rooted cutting, it's going to the ground at this point. Grafted bye bye 

[Foxpalms]

@UK_Palms 

Westminster yesterday dropped down to -0.6c and the city of London dropped to -0.5c. It has dropped down to 2.2c here tonight and now as partial cloud cover is moving the temp has risen to 3c.  We can only hope this year the spring is warm and dry. Could do with 70f+ temps in March after this freeze.

[thyerr01]

Looks like you got a good tight seal at ground level on your covers.

I mulched to the graft on a young Calamondin, but I'm expecting to have to replace it. My other mystery citrus (possibly just sour orange rootstock) is on its own. Is there any consensus on what citrus is actually hardy under these ridiculous conditions? Japanese citrus other than Mandarins maybe? I have a Yuzu and an Ujukitsu in pots waiting to be planted in spring.