Polar Vortex

[Xenon]

5 minutes ago, thyerr01 said:

Looks like you got a good tight seal at ground level on your covers.

I mulched to the graft on a young Calamondin, but I'm expecting to have to replace it. My other mystery citrus (possibly just sour orange rootstock) is on its own. Is there any consensus on what citrus is actually hardy under these ridiculous conditions? Japanese citrus other than Mandarins maybe? I have a Yuzu and an Ujukitsu in pots waiting to be planted in spring.

Kumquat and satsuma are tried and true but they need to be mature several years in the ground, not less than a year in the ground....

The leaves from the pic above belong to Bloomsweet grapefruit which is supposedly as hardy as satsuma. Also have an Orange Frost satsuma hybrid uncovered. We'll see. 

This event would be survivable for any large sweet mature citrus i.e oranges, mandarins, grapefruits, and even pummelos. All of those survived as mature (10-25 years old) trees back in 2018 which was a similar if not more severe freeze. But after 2021, there's nothing left lol

[Robert Cade Ross]

29 minutes ago, Xenon said:

I hope you planted a rooted cutting, it's going to the ground at this point. Grafted bye bye 

Last minute attempt after some damage was already visible we shall see … it was mulched a few days before..

[thyerr01]

I just don't like Kumquats or grapefruit. Mandarins might be worth more investigation. I'd like to track down some desert lime (Citrus glauca) seeds - it can get decently cold (although very dry) in parts of its range.

[Chester B]

Pretty chilly here, we did go above freezing today but not by much, I saw 38/39F this afternoon but we're back down in the cold again.  28F as of 10pm.  I sure hope my neighbors Washingtonia and CIDP don't all brown off, so far they look ok.   Tonight looks to be 22/23F and then 70F on Thursday.  These types of swings are definitely going to take some time to get used to!

[L.A.M.]

BREAKING: Most of Middle Tennessee is now slightly below 0 °F for the second winter in a row. The low is expected to reach -2 °F in Cookeville and -3 °F in Murfreesboro, with even Nashville and places as far south as Walden and Savannah getting quite close to zero regardless of elevation.

[Xenon]

7 minutes ago, Cade said:

Last minute attempt after some damage was already visible we shall see … it was mulched a few days before..

Good thing they come back from the base like weeds 

[southpacific73]

Finally saying goodbye to polar vortex 2024 tomorrow with a snowfall finale!  Expecting 1-9” /5cm-25cm. Gong to be a gong show on the roads but it makes for great entertainment! Take care everyone and be safe with this dangerous cold!

[L.A.M.]

44 minutes ago, southpacific73 said:

Finally saying goodbye to polar vortex 2024 tomorrow with a snowfall finale!  Expecting 1-9” /5cm-25cm. Gong to be a gong show on the roads but it makes for great entertainment! Take care everyone and be safe with this dangerous cold!

Indeed! This is the worst cold wave of my life! It's now -4 degrees Fahrenheit where I live with the expected low there, and scattered parts of Middle Tennessee have even dropped into 6a-type cold. The (likely wild) dwarf palmettos along Parker Street in Hornsby are also having to contend with sub-zero cold, which wasn't even the case in December 2022. I truly believed this wouldn't happen in back-to-back years, let alone worse than last time. I read that it's getting colder in any given part of Middle Tennessee the more snow fell there, which is believable with East Tennessee, northern West Tennessee, Kentucky and Southern Illinois being spared; I hope that same snow is sufficient to insulate palms from damage! Would that snow be sufficient to insulate tree-sized palms like Birmingham, Brazoria and Louisiana palmettos or just shrub-sized ones like my needle palm and dwarf palmetto (both of which I now fear for nonetheless)? Also, should I fertilize my palms immediately after the cold goes away (monocot trees/shrubs constantly grow until they die; they're just slower in poorer conditions) and spray the meristems with copper fungicide pre-emptively, or should I wait and see what happens first?

[Graydon]

I purchased a Kestrel thermometer to measure microclimates.   McAllen, TX, is predicted to sink to 26 degrees F tonight.   In my courtyard and near my house it ranges from 45 to 55.   That is a big difference. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

The cold front finally pushed into the east coast lastnight; a NW wind blew the cloud cover off and temps bottomed out at 13 here this morning. 

[MarcusH]

13 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Meanwhile up on Vancouver Island the real cold is gone. Currently 45°F / 7°C this afternoon with sun cloud mix. We're not completely free of issues just yet. Forecasters are saying snow overnight and into tomorrow. One last insult before back to normal. Hang in there man. Maybe Sabal mexicana (texana) might be a better choice if you lose your Washingtonia?

So far so good . The leaf of my Robusta are already brown ,slightly, but knocking on wood it didn't get colder than 18F  and in an hour the temps are going up to the 45F today. 

[BeyondTheGarden]

43 minutes ago, BeyondTheGarden said:

The cold front finally pushed into the east coast lastnight; a NW wind blew the cloud cover off and temps bottomed out at 13 here this morning. 

Correction, 11f. Brr.

[Allen]

-6F here crazy I'm gonna have damage.   Needed Foamboard boxes for this one.  These temps are close to spear on most where most protected.  The fronds are out further and harder to heat.

 

Edited January 17 by Allen

[teddytn]

23 minutes ago, Allen said:

-6F here crazy I'm gonna have damage.   Needed Foamboard boxes for this one.  These temps are close to spear on most where most protected.  The fronds are out further and harder to heat.

 

That model looks accurate. It was 6f in Clarksville when I left and dropped to 3f. As I drove south towards Nashville on 24 I started hitting pockets that were as cold as -5 and -6. Terrible seriously 

[Allen]

21 minutes ago, teddytn said:

That model looks accurate. It was 6f in Clarksville when I left and dropped to 3f. As I drove south towards Nashville on 24 I started hitting pockets that were as cold as -5 and -6. Terrible seriously 

That's actual temps I think.  And it was coldest since 1996 (-10F) for here.  I told you wrong earlier while I was drinking coffee.  Weather station said our ow was -7F at their station here. 

Edited January 17 by Allen

[Swolte]

Looks like we bottomed out around 12F in College station (about 5F lower than was predicted - though our local weather station called it as a bottom range). The optimism from yesterday has disappeared as this likely does mean some severe damage (I have no heat sources to protect). I might lose a palm or two given some of them already looked exhausted from last summer. We'll have another dip in the low 20s on Friday before I'll start unwrapping on the weekend.

Good luck, everyone. Hope this is the last of these events for a while (I know, I have hoping that since '21...)
😬

[Sabal King]

4 minutes ago, Swolte said:

Looks like we bottomed out around 12F in College station (about 5F lower than was predicted - though our local weather station called it as a bottom range). The optimism from yesterday has disappeared as this likely does mean some severe damage (I have no heat sources to protect). I might lose a palm or two given some of them already looked exhausted from last summer. We'll have another dip in the low 20s on Friday before I'll start unwrapping on the weekend.

Good luck, everyone. Hope this is the last of these events for a while (I know, I have hoping that since '21...)
😬

wow!!  We hit 9.9f for 30 minutes, then hovered at 12-14 for a long while and today should be in the 40's it appears... i don't think so much it's the low temp, but duration for us.  Here's to everyone realizing the value of hardy Sabals lol, in all of these zones!  I'm very curious to see what some of my tender ones look like in a month or two... we will certainly find out shortly!

[Leelanau Palms]

@teddytn and @Allen , sorry to hear about the rude, unwelcome cold for y'all! 

[Swolte]

7 hours ago, L.A.M. said:

I hope that same snow is sufficient to insulate palms from damage! Would that snow be sufficient to insulate tree-sized palms like Birmingham, Brazoria and Louisiana palmettos or just shrub-sized ones like my needle palm and dwarf palmetto (both of which I now fear for nonetheless)? Also, should I fertilize my palms immediately after the cold goes away (monocot trees/shrubs constantly grow until they die; they're just slower in poorer conditions) and spray the meristems with copper fungicide pre-emptively, or should I wait and see what happens first?

Hi L.A.M, I am sorry to hear about those temps!!

My 2 cnts based on your questions. There's not a lot of direct scientific answers for some but here are my (un)educated guesses:

I don't think the snow will insulate large palms. Plants don't generate (much) heat like we mammals do but they can get heat from the ground. This is why it is best to create a little tent when you're protecting plants so you're trapping the heat.  This is very hard to do with large palm, of course (unless you're crazy, like some around here... ;)). Snow covers the ground and insulates, especially the roots of sensitive plants. This may help palms with key structures (meristem) underground (e.g., Minors). 

I would not fertilize. I am not too sure whether it is damaging (the salt could possibly be stressing the roots) but plants won't be in a state to take up many nutrients and likely start growing yet. I'd wait till spring. 

Spraying some copper fungicide in the spears already is not a bad idea.  

~ S

Edited January 17 by Swolte

[Dwarf Fan]

22 hours ago, Xenon said:

I miss the 13 winter streak of 9b/10a in Houston, when is it coming again 😭??? Those were the days! Please no more zone 8 nonsense 

 

18F this morning where I am

18F at IAH (avg annual low: 26F, departure: -8F)

20F in central Houston and Hobby (28F, -8F)

24F in Galveston (32F, -8F) 

Departure from average in past 4 winters at Hobby: 

-8F, -11F, -1F, -13F

😭

^^^ Jonathan you are a brilliant young man and much more knowledgeable about Palms than myself, however I remember you being a big advocate for “Zone Pushing” and suggested that I be more bold with species selections due to my location.

While your advice on Cold Dry northern winds desiccation helped me tremendously along with many other of your posts, I am glad I went with my gut and collected only 20F species (except my Thrinax Radiata), because out of my 40 species collection it was the only Palm to take significant damage and the only one that I “protected”, (see putting a 5 Gal bucket over top with a rock to keep it in place) but I did no other “Voodoo” like building boxes, wrapping, lights, heating cables or thermal cube nonsense.

My ultimate low was 26F on North Padre Island, Corpus Christi, TX and my species list is in the “about me” section of my profile if anyone is interested.

Pics coming later.

Dan

 😁 > 😭

[teddytn]

1 hour ago, Allen said:

That's actual temps I think.  And it was coldest since 1996 (-10F) for here.  I told you wrong earlier while I was drinking coffee.  Weather station said our ow was -7F at their station here. 

Holy crap! I need to start planting more needles and minors 

[UK_Palms]

Mother nature is up to it's old tricks again here screwing us over. It has been completely cloudy and overcast all day long today, from sunrise to sunset, limiting any proper daytime recovery. It looks like the maximum was only 3.1C / 38F here today as a result of all that cloud cover, but now the second it starts getting dark again, the skies begin to clear... and it will remain clear all night long. You couldn't make it up. What a cruel world that we live in. I have -7C / 19F forecast, but it could end up being colder, or milder even, hopefully. Hard to say.

Coldest night of winter last night for the UK with -14C / 6.6F registered up in the Scottish Highlands at 56N.

 

If I only go down to -5C / 23F tonight, then I will be happy. Put it that way. I fear it could be a lot worse however. The Met Office now have -8C / 17F at Wisley in Surrey, which is my nearest Met Office station. The Met Office's UKV chart looks pretty brutal.

 

The latest GFS run doesn't look quite as bad with a -5C / 23F minima at worst. Hopefully GFS is correct and I don't get -7C or -8C. Nervous times though.

Edited January 17 by UK_Palms

[Chester B]

Well I feel awful for everyone, these temps are extreme.  Hopefully an early spring so that things have lots of time to recover.  Once temps warm up I'd be spraying fungicide right away and probably every couple weeks for the next while.

Last night I got to 23F and today we're forecasted to hit 45F so it's passed my location.

Good luck everyone

[KsLouisiana]

31 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Well I feel awful for everyone, these temps are extreme.  Hopefully an early spring so that things have lots of time to recover.  Once temps warm up I'd be spraying fungicide right away and probably every couple weeks for the next while.

Last night I got to 23F and today we're forecasted to hit 45F so it's passed my location.

Good luck everyone

The good news about the gulf coast is spring hits really early. Usually March 1st and its a quick turn around.  And we've only been getting one of these terrible cold fronts a year...fingers crossed

[Las Palmas Norte]

We're transitioning back to normal and it's inevitable we get snow before the rain in this situation. Sure enough I just shoveled 5" of wet snow off my driveway. Time to hit the shower.

 

[Robert Cade Ross]

The crazy survivor out in humble area zone 9A/B . Wonder if it can hang on after 18° once again…….. 

[_nevi]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

The crazy survivor out in humble area zone 9A/B . Wonder if it can hang on after 18° once again…….. 

Temps overall across the Houston area (and TX Gulf Coast as a whole) did not get as cold as feared (given models like CMC/ICON). Still will wait for things to warm up, and assess any damages. Also need to be mindful regarding any further cold outbreaks for the winter.

[Dwarf Fan]

“Damage” report: Currently 46F

NO damage: Patrix Schafer Hybrids

—> NO damage at ULTIMATE low of 26F!!!

B. paraguayensis x Monty, 1x Butia Eriospatha/Butia Microspadix x Allagoptera arenaria, 1x Butia x Syagrus coronata/Queen, 1x Butia x Butia/Queen, 1x Butia/Jubaea x Queen, 1x Butia x Parajubaea sunkha,  1x Butia x Syagrus kellyana, 1x Butia x Lytocaryum weddellianum/Queen f2, 1x Butia x Lytocaryum weddellianum

NO damage: Scott’s Mules

NO damage: Arenga engleri

NO damage: 1x Trachycarpus fortunei ‘Bulgaria’ (Lower Left corner)

NO damage: sabal minor (Center Duh) 

Very slight leaf curling damage Chamadorea Radicalis (Mid left center under canopy)

Visiable Leaf tip damage: Arundinaria tecta (rear)

Damage to interior of leafs discoloration, spear looks fine, covered with bucket after covered in snow: 1x Thrinax radiata (Lower right corner)

Completely FRIED: Canna lilies (Left upper corner, will come back in spring and look great)

Slight Visiable leaf tip damage:

NO Damage Sabal Minor

No Damage Washy Hybrid

Very Slight Leaf discoloration/damage :

Chamadorea radicalis (Center ground & Square pot)
Chamadorea costaricana seedlings (far right)

No damage:

Chamaerops humilis ‘Vulcano’, 

NO damage:

2x Livistona chinensis, 1x Trachycarpus fortunei 'Wagnerianus', 2x Brahea edulis, 1x Rhapidophyllum hystrix, 4x Chamaerops humilis, 2x Butia paraguayensis, 1x Serenoa repens (Green), 1x Serenoa repens (Blue Green), 10x Brahea moorei, 3x Sabal mexicana, 2x Sabal palmetto ‘Lisa’

NO damage:
 1x Sabal minor ‘Louisiana’ (JMP), 1x Sabal minor ‘Louisiana’ (BB), 2x Sabal minor ‘Louisiana’ (Little Elm), 3x Sabal minor ‘Louisiana’ (Lewisville, Warehouse), 9x Sabal ‘Tamaulipas’ (Yucca Do), 2x Sabal minor ‘McCurtain’ (AA), 3x Sabal minor ‘McCurtain’ (BB), 2x Sabal minor, 1x Sabal etonia, 6x Sabal minor ‘Baker FL’, 3x Sabal minor ‘Wakulla FL’
Dwarf’, 20x Sabal minor ‘Blountstown FL’ Dwarf

 

No damage: Scott’s Mule

 Leaf discoloration and damage: Chamadorea radicalis (recently put in ground and completely exposed)

One Casualty: Completely drooped Mexican Papaya (these are supposed to be Hardy here will she come back by spring?)

Fried: Canna Lilly (will definitely return in spring)

Leaf Tip damage and yellowing: Bambusa Maligensis

[amh]

Currently 39F after about 9F last night with 3^1/2 + days  below freezing. The sabals are unfazed and it appears my unprotected Chamaedorea radicalis are okay.

I'll know more in a few days.

Edited January 17 by amh

[Allen]

Just went out to re-look at Sabals after -6F.

Brazoria that only had minor spotting last year at -1F looks mostly burned.

Birminghams - Burned badly

Louisiana left uncovered (I covered the big one) - Burned to a crisp

minors - seem to have little damage

needles - seem ok might spear pull

[RJ]

It will take some time for the damage to show for the folks that have already gone though this cold spell. 

Went down to 27 at my place last night, this weekend will be the test. Saturday night/Sunday Morning will be the coldest for us. I'm expecting to see low 20's perhaps high teens. 

 

 

[southpacific73]

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

Well I feel awful for everyone, these temps are extreme.  Hopefully an early spring so that things have lots of time to recover.  Once temps warm up I'd be spraying fungicide right away and probably every couple weeks for the next while.

Last night I got to 23F and today we're forecasted to hit 45F so it's passed my location.

Good luck everyone

Chester B PNW misses you…come back lol!  

[Robert Cade Ross]

Two very small Archontophoenix cunninghamiana after two nights of 21° I put some leaf litter over them and a container to keep them dry . Damage appears to be showing  wonder if they pull through? 

[southpacific73]

Currently getting dumped on in Metro Vancouver which is basically shut down . Currently sitting at 32F (-1c)  but will go down to 26F (-3c) with wet snow conditions until tomorrow. Friday is when we go back to normal conditions with rain and temps 44F/ 7C and lows of 40F/5C. 

[Allen]

Oh I think you can get a idea already but it will turn brown later for sure

Once again after -6F

brazoriensis

Birmingham

minor

Edited January 17 by Allen

[Leelanau Palms]

48 minutes ago, Allen said:

Just went out to re-look at Sabals after -6F.

Brazoria that only had minor spotting last year at -1F looks mostly burned.

Birminghams - Burned badly

Louisiana left uncovered (I covered the big one) - Burned to a crisp

minors - seem to have little damage

needles - seem ok might spear pull

@Allen so sorry to see and hear about the damage! I've enjoyed watching them thrive on YouTube. 

 

Edited January 17 by Leelanau Palms

[EJPalm05]

Washingtonia all nice and cozy!

And the livistona as well!

Edited January 17 by EJ NJ
Added picture

[SeanK]

16 hours ago, L.A.M. said:

BREAKING: Most of Middle Tennessee is now slightly below 0 °F for the second winter in a row. The low is expected to reach -2 °F in Cookeville and -3 °F in Murfreesboro, with even Nashville and places as far south as Walden and Savannah getting quite close to zero regardless of elevation.

I saw this on a BHM weathercast posted on YouTube. Looks like AL was much colder than GA.

[LakeEriePalms]

Good afternoon, 

Brand new to this forum and have enjoyed reading some of the earlier chats. Question about windmill palm and winter. Its a well established palm in pot and its currently in the garage during this cold spell (UV lights for some fake sun) Temperature in the garage hasn't gotten below freezing but has been stuck between 33-40F for the last few days.  Ive moved my Musas that were in the garage inside but the windmill is too big for that (Unless absolutely needed) 

So long story short, how long can it stay in the 30s without any damage? 

[Las Palmas Norte]

1 hour ago, southpacific73 said:

Currently getting dumped on in Metro Vancouver which is basically shut down . Currently sitting at 32F (-1c)  but will go down to 26F (-3c) with wet snow conditions until tomorrow. Friday is when we go back to normal conditions with rain and temps 44F/ 7C and lows of 40F/5C. 

IMG_4679.mov

Wow, I'll say! We have been spared the worst of it, although 5" of snow is enough. It did clear around 9 am and the sun is helping melt the offending flakes.