How far from hardy in 7B is the Phoenix ?

[WSimpson]

I saw this and realized that maybe it is hardy in 7B in a dry climate , but not a 7B in the Southeast ? How hardy is it really ? 

Thanks 

 

Family

Arecaceae (ar-ek-AY-see-ee) 

Info

Genus

Phoenix (FEE-niks) 

Info

Species

theophrasti (thee-oh-FRAS-tee)

Info

Synonym

 

Sun Exposure

Full Sun

Foliage

Evergreen

This plant is fire-retardant

This plant is resistant to deer

Height

over 40 ft. (12 m)

Spacing

12-15 ft. (3.6-4.7 m)

15-20 ft. (4.7-6 m)

Hardiness

USDA Zone 7b: to -14.9 °C (5 °F)

USDA Zone 8a: to -12.2 °C (10 °F)

USDA Zone 8b: to -9.4 °C (15 °F)

USDA Zone 9a: to -6.6 °C (20 °F)

USDA Zone 9b: to -3.8 °C (25 °F)

USDA Zone 10a: to -1.1 °C (30 °F)

USDA Zone 10b: to 1.7 °C (35 °F)

USDA Zone 11: above 4.5 °C (40 °F)

Danger

Plant has spines or sharp edges; use extreme caution when handling

Bloom Color

Gold (yellow-orange)

 

Edited January 25 by Will Simpson

[Las Palmas Norte]

Many variable factors. Age (size), climate, cold duration, repeated freezing, conditions leading into severe weather, soil etc. Plant one and find out. How many do you see in your area?

[Fusca]

I would agree - not a 7b palm in a humid area winter.  They're supposed to be humidity tolerant but I lost a well established theophrasti (2 years from a 3-gal) in February 2021 at 9°F along with a sylvestris and canariensis.  The CIDP was large but yet trunking and most likely would have survived at a larger size.  Not sure about the theo though.

[WSimpson]

4 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Many variable factors. Age (size), climate, cold duration, repeated freezing, conditions leading into severe weather, soil etc. Plant one and find out. How many do you see in your area?

Thanks , you summed it up well .

Will

[WSimpson]

3 hours ago, Fusca said:

I would agree - not a 7b palm in a humid area winter.  They're supposed to be humidity tolerant but I lost a well established theophrasti (2 years from a 3-gal) in February 2021 at 9°F along with a sylvestris and canariensis.  The CIDP was large but yet trunking and most likely would have survived at a larger size.  Not sure about the theo though.

Using my method of cutting off fronds and protecting the  trunk only , I wonder if it could produce enough fronds in one or 2 seasons   to not go into decline . 

Thanks ,

Will

 

My Washy puts out 25 fronds a season so it's worth it to me to grow it and protect it  . If the Phoenix doesn't produce enough fronds in a season it might go into decline and I would never want to grow it here . I would say that the most winters  in a row out of 10  here that its fronds would not bronze out ,  and  where it would keep pretty fronds ,  would be 4 winters  . It would lose those fronds that 5th winter almost  surely . An interesting  thought would be  to snug it up in  my best  microclimate , where my Butia thrives . 

 

[Xerarch]

CIDP’s and sometimes Dacty’s can survive 7b temps. But that’s far from saying they’re hardy to 7b. For example they are happy in a 9a or warmer climate where they go for years being healthy and with a full crown. Then a fluke winter comes and blasts them with single digits, they 100% defoliate but temps don’t stay down and they quickly start to regrow and replenish the crown, in time they also replenish their reserve stores of energy. They can’t afford to do this every year, or multiple times in a year, especially if temps don’t return to good growing conditions very quickly. They may survive for a few years but will dwindle a little more every year and then succumb. 

[WSimpson]

15 hours ago, Xerarch said:

CIDP’s and sometimes Dacty’s can survive 7b temps. But that’s far from saying they’re hardy to 7b. For example they are happy in a 9a or warmer climate where they go for years being healthy and with a full crown. Then a fluke winter comes and blasts them with single digits, they 100% defoliate but temps don’t stay down and they quickly start to regrow and replenish the crown, in time they also replenish their reserve stores of energy. They can’t afford to do this every year, or multiple times in a year, especially if temps don’t return to good growing conditions very quickly. They may survive for a few years but will dwindle a little more every year and then succumb. 

That is a decent explanation . Their crowns are so large too that  I might pass on planting one here .

Thanks ,

Will

[Las Palmas Norte]

1 hour ago, Will Simpson said:

That is a decent explanation . Their crowns are so large too that  I might pass on planting one here .

Thanks ,

Will

Minimum 20' to 40' wide crown. It's a big undertaking to winterize a palm that size. I has been done though.

Here's a guy in Europe that defines dedication to palm growing there.

 

 

 

[SeanK]

17 hours ago, Will Simpson said:

Using my method of cutting off fronds and protecting the  trunk only , I wonder if it could produce enough fronds in one or 2 seasons   to not go into decline . 

Thanks ,

Will

 

My Washy puts out 25 fronds a season so it's worth it to me to grow it and protect it  . If the Phoenix doesn't produce enough fronds in a season it might go into decline and I would never want to grow it here . I would say that the most winters  in a row out of 10  here that its fronds would not bronze out ,  and  where it would keep pretty fronds ,  would be 4 winters  . It would lose those fronds that 5th winter almost  surely . An interesting  thought would be  to snug it up in  my best  microclimate , where my Butia thrives . 

 

W.robusta is unique in that it recovers a full crown in one season. Still, you may have to leave trunk protection in-place 12 months just as a practical matter.

[NC_Palms]

I'm on the other side of the Tar Heel state and I still get some damage on most my Phoenix palms in a typical winter. P. theoprasti seems to be the hardiest for me. If you want to bite the bullet and see if you can get one to survive in the piedmont, I highly encourage it and worst case scenario it most likely will defoliate and come back in the spring. 

But imo no Phoenix imo is truly hardy in a zone 7 southeastern climate. `

[WSimpson]

18 hours ago, NC_Palms said:

I'm on the other side of the Tar Heel state and I still get some damage on most my Phoenix palms in a typical winter. P. theoprasti seems to be the hardiest for me. If you want to bite the bullet and see if you can get one to survive in the piedmont, I highly encourage it and worst case scenario it most likely will defoliate and come back in the spring. 

But imo no Phoenix imo is truly hardy in a zone 7 southeastern climate. `

What , I'm zone 8A . Just kidding , but I just became zone 8A with the new Hardiness Zone maps . My thinking is that I can protect a Washy because they grow so fast  and put out so many fronds in a season , but if a  Phoenix doesn't grow a lot of fronds in a year , it might go into decline . I know I can protect it , but  it's a lot slower of a grower that my Washy and  it might not be worth it in my climate ?

Thanks ,

Will

Edited January 27 by Will Simpson

[Leelanau Palms]

Great discussion. Thoughtful comments.

[Marco67]

In a cool oceanic climate, you really need a 9a/b climate to have any kind of chance with a Phoenix. In a 7B climate here in northwestern Europe, you would have zero chance in my opinion. The first place you can see Phoenix palms on the Atlantic coast are in some sheltered places in Brittany, France.  

[Las Palmas Norte]

18 hours ago, Will Simpson said:

What , I'm zone 8A . Just kidding , but I just became zone 8A with the new Hardiness Zone maps . My thinking is that I can protect a Washy because they grow so fast  and put out so many fronds in a season , but if a  Phoenix doesn't grow a lot of fronds in a year , it might go into decline . I know I can protect it , but  it's a lot slower of a grower that my Washy and  it might not be worth it in my climate ?

Thanks ,

Will

This from 2007 >>>