Can't get Florikan in California (unless I pay over $100 for shipping) - other suggested alternatives?

[Ben F.]

Because there are no west coast (or past Texas really) distributors, I can't get Florikan 8-2-12 unless I'm paying over $100 for shipping! So, curious what others would recommend? I'm in Fallbrook (North East San Diego County) - somewhat sandy soil, with 20'-30' high mature Queen palms.

I tried a Loveland 14-4-9 Palm fertilizer with micro nutrients back in October, but doesn't seem to have really helped the look of the trees. A lot of my trees are looking rather yellow on lower fronds and tips as well, or somewhat lighter green on certain fronts, definitely not as deep green as when I moved into the property in August. Maybe I just didn't water enough back in the summer fall or use the right fertilizer or apply it right? 

In any case, here's the two soil tests I did, so you can see what's there in the soil. The first one was back in October, the second one was in December. I do plan to do a light dusting of Langbeinite soon, and then fertilize the first of March. Curious if anyone had any other fertilizer suggestions? 

First test: 

 

Second test:

 

[mnorell]

It's important for you to correct your boron deficiency, and also your Iron (this may have a lot to do with your pale leaves). You can buy EDDHA Iron chelate on Amazon (not sure if you can find this in any nurseries or Big Box stores), EDDHA is the only one you want to use. Expensive but pretty much anything else you use will have no or limited availability to plants in alkaline soils. And for boron, you can just use Borax (google for recommended amounts to dissolve in water for your palm sizes). 

I used Florikan in the Florida Keys and it seemed to be good stuff (and certainly admired by arborists and professional maintenance people there). I also used BGI's PalmGain. I felt both were rather similar except that the Florikan I used was a very long time-release product compared to the PalmGain and maybe better for the highly basic substrate in the Keys. Tim Broschat (now retired from UF) is pretty much the authority on palm fertilization in Florida and his recommendations I think have been followed quite closely both by Florikan for many of their products, and also by BGI for their PalmGain product. PalmGain can be purchased through mail-order suppliers and also through Amazon (in which case it is actually purchased from and shipped by BGI). I order 50lb bags, I see it is currently $95.98, or $91.18 if you do a Subscribe & Save for it. Shipping is FREE for Prime members. Even though both Florikan and PalmGain are formulated for mostly basic South Florida substrates , they I think do fine in California, at least where soil is fairly basic (I can't think of anywhere it might be acidic!).

[SeanK]

Amazon ships West coast.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Florikan&ref=glow_cls&refresh=1

 

[Ben F.]

1 hour ago, SeanK said:

Amazon ships West coast.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Florikan&ref=glow_cls&refresh=1

 

Unfortunately they don't have the Florikan 8-2-12 on Amazon, unless I'm missing something.. I do see other Florikan products there. 

[Allen]

https://www.seedworldusa.com/collections/palm-fertilizer/products/bgi-palmgain-palm-tree-fertilizer-50lb-bag

or the 10 ib

[Billeb]

PalmGain on Amazon as @mnorell stated.  It periodically says not avail but in talking to BGI directly, she said when that happens it will be avail fairly quick. They deligate a pallet or two just for Amazon orders. 
 

-dale 

[James B]

Agree with Dale, Palmgain is my go to here in SoCal. Always had great results with it.

[96720]

Better nurseries should have kerex iron specially formulated for alkaline soils by a company in Phoenix don’t be skimpy with it just use a lot and water it in good keep it off of anything you don’t want stained but it works great!!

[Looking Glass]

By the results, your soil is acidic.  Under these conditions, iron is more available, so you might not have to get so fancy with the chelation., though you should hit with some sort of iron and borax.    Iron and boron are both more available for plants in acidic soil conditions.  

 

With that detailed soil analysis you could mix your own stuff.  

[Ben F.]

@mnorell @Looking Glass @James B  @BillebThank everyone for the feedback. So it looks like PalmGain is more readily available and highly suggested, so I think I'll go with that.

I'm still a newbie with specifics of palm care, some follow up questions..

1. It looks like it suppose to be applied more often (it says every 4 - 6 weeks) how about every 2 months instead?
2. Is it ok to apply it now in early February, or should one preferably wait until early March? Weather here is often between 40 - 60's, sometimes 50 - upper 70's if it's a warm spell.  
3. The suggestion about applying "EDDHA Iron chelate" - I could do that, but if it's ok to go ahead and apply some PalmGain now, at the end of January, would just applying PalmGain suffice? 

[Patrick]

Look up a Simplot distributor and see if Palm Plus or Palm Special is available for you. Used to be Apex before they were bought up. Maybe one of those offerings you will find acceptable 

[Harry’s Palms]

I am so glad this topic came up. I haven’t fertilized my palms for many years but plan to start . I used to use Palm Plus , sorry I can’t remember the ratio , every 3 months. I would mix it with top soil in a wheelbarrow and mix it into the soil around the palms . Then spread wood chips on top. After the palms got established I stopped. Now I think I will start up again using Palm Gain as recommended. Most of my palms are pretty tall and I really don’t think my huge queens need any help but some of the others could certainly benefit.

[Harry’s Palms]

I used to buy my Apex Palm Plus from a commercial ag distributor her called AgRX. I would buy it in 25lb bags. , the 3 month variety. 

[Harry’s Palms]

Is this the product ? Amazon has it for $95 , free shipping with Prime. 

[Ben F.]

26 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

Is this the product ? Amazon has it for $95 , free shipping with Prime. 

That’s it. Yep. @Patrick and you mentioned Palm Plus..   https://partners.simplot.com/product/Palm-Plus-1358-with-GALXeONE

they do have that locally around here, but I feel like the ratio is off. I don’t need any phosphorus, my numbers are way high, and the recommendation coming out Florida Is ideally 8-2-12, with that much higher potassium and lower nitrogen. If Palm Plus was truly a better formula for around here, it would be easy for me to pick it up, but it seems like PalmGain is more highly recommended. 

[Looking Glass]

1 hour ago, Ben F. said:

@mnorell @Looking Glass @James B  @BillebThank everyone for the feedback. So it looks like PalmGain is more readily available and highly suggested, so I think I'll go with that.

I'm still a newbie with specifics of palm care, some follow up questions..

1. It looks like it suppose to be applied more often (it says every 4 - 6 weeks) how about every 2 months instead?
2. Is it ok to apply it now in early February, or should one preferably wait until early March? Weather here is often between 40 - 60's, sometimes 50 - upper 70's if it's a warm spell.  
3. The suggestion about applying "EDDHA Iron chelate" - I could do that, but if it's ok to go ahead and apply some PalmGain now, at the end of January, would just applying PalmGain suffice? 

Florida’s Palm fertilizing recommendations don’t translate 100% to other areas, but are  probably a great start for most people.  They are meant for fast draining, often alkaline soils, with deluging rains.  You can easily add a bit more nitrogen, and adjust timing based on your wet season, warm season, and whether you have clay rather than sand, which will hold nutrients much better.  

You can get EDDHA Iron off Amazon, but you could probably use EDTA at your pH and it would work just as well.   EDDHA is what I use here.  A teaspoon in a watering can around a palm can work wonders.  A tablespoon of borax in a watering can or even just sprinkled diffusely around the drip line will correct Boron deficiency over time.  You can do both every 3-4 months and see what happens.  Be careful not to overdo Boron.   Therapeutic window vs toxic range is tight.  

I would bump up N, K, B, and Fe if I had a report like that, in addition to regular maintenance with high end palm fertilizer, and good mulch and watering.  If you are trying to push growth, have the ground fertile already when your growing season starts.  Here, growth is year round but picks up speed in February as the heat and sun returns.  

What are you browning?  Post some pics…. Sound like you are dealing with low iron and potassium symptoms.   

[Billeb]

3 hours ago, Ben F. said:

@mnorell @Looking Glass @James B  @BillebThank everyone for the feedback. So it looks like PalmGain is more readily available and highly suggested, so I think I'll go with that.

I'm still a newbie with specifics of palm care, some follow up questions..

1. It looks like it suppose to be applied more often (it says every 4 - 6 weeks) how about every 2 months instead?
2. Is it ok to apply it now in early February, or should one preferably wait until early March? Weather here is often between 40 - 60's, sometimes 50 - upper 70's if it's a warm spell.  
3. The suggestion about applying "EDDHA Iron chelate" - I could do that, but if it's ok to go ahead and apply some PalmGain now, at the end of January, would just applying PalmGain suffice? 

I use a Dosotron injection system now so don’t really use slow release that much anymore. For me it was a real pain to dig down past the top coat and put a little mound under the emitter at each plant. 

Previously I used PalmGain every 3 months but held off in the Winter (non growing season). Threw a pile down in April, July and Oct. Saw great results. 
 

Ironically, now I only use PalmGain in the winter months by throwing a pile at each plant and letting the rain leach it into the soil. I use PalmGain on all my potted plants tho. More or less just to get rid of the bag. 
 

-dale 

[James B]

6 hours ago, Billeb said:

I use a Dosotron injection system now so don’t really use slow release that much anymore. For me it was a real pain to dig down past the top coat and put a little mound under the emitter at each plant. 

Previously I used PalmGain every 3 months but held off in the Winter (non growing season). Threw a pile down in April, July and Oct. Saw great results. 
 

Ironically, now I only use PalmGain in the winter months by throwing a pile at each plant and letting the rain leach it into the soil. I use PalmGain on all my potted plants tho. More or less just to get rid of the bag. 
 

-dale 

That sounds awesome Dale👍🏼

[Ben F.]

@Looking Glass here are some pictures. Most of these trees were way greener back in the summer. I really wasn't watering that much then, I just didn't know they thrived on a lot more water. I did do a fertilizer batch in October. I'm not concerned about the lowest most fronds that need to be pruned off.

What I've noticed around here is when the temps dropped( not unusual to be in the mid-low 40's during the fall/winter evenings) a lot of Queens in the area end up looking like this, some more yellow, some a bit more green. If I see a Queen that still looks mostly green, it's usually in someone's well-kept yard. The newer fronds are mildly green, some more than others. They all tend to have more yellowing around the edges. 

In any case, I'm looking at the PalmGain bag, or there is one called TreeSaver https://store.palmtreesaver.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=5003 , I was going to ask a bit more what the local nurseries are doing as well. Thanks for your feedback. 

[Ben F.]

@Looking Glass actually, it may come down to 3 options.. PalmGain, TreeSaver's 8-2-12, or locally someone recommend PalmPlus (which is 13-5-8). https://partners.simplot.com/product/Palm-Plus-1358-with-GALXeONE

[sonoranfans]

pH of 4.6 is really acid, time for a pH adjustment before you can expect a healthy palm(they say use calcitic lime).   It also appears you are accumulating micros from october to now in your soil, you should not be fertilizing over winter as feedling is generally very low over winter.  Boron  will be low at that low pH as it binds to Iron at  a low acid pH.   https://agriculture.borax.com/resources/agronomy-notes/soil-and-crop-issues/boron-reactions-in-soils#:~:text=Boron availability to plants decreases,oxide surfaces of soil minerals.   First things first fix that soil pH.

Adding a coarse)1/4" Dolomite (in mass) is a longer term solution that will help but for the short term I would put down the pelletized garden lime.  Note lawn lime is no good for palms as it has very little Mg and Ca/Mg ratios should be ~ 3:1 or 4:1 as the excess calcium can affect the available Mg which is critical in photosynthesis(greening up).  I would first use a heavy application of humic acid to chelate excess micros and then rinse the soil good.  Once this is done I would add the pelletized lime but I would go with dolomitic lime or garden lime as after the soil rinse I would want approx 3: Ca Mg ratio.  Calcitic lime can have very little Mg.  Once this is done the palm gain should work well.  Warning, if your soil is sandy or low in cation exchange, I would be careful to apply the palm gain more frequently than the label as it is a slow release, which dissipates faster under regular irrigation.    

[Looking Glass]

13 hours ago, Ben F. said:

@Looking Glass actually, it may come down to 3 options.. PalmGain, TreeSaver's 8-2-12, or locally someone recommend PalmPlus (which is 13-5-8). https://partners.simplot.com/product/Palm-Plus-1358-with-GALXeONE

I use Treesaver, as it was the most available for me after Palmgain got scarce in the COVID times.  Seems to work well for my purposes.  I’ve also hit palms with humic acid as described above.    Didn’t realize that Boron drops off with super low pH as @sonoranfans described.  

[Ben F.]

@sonoranfans you seem to know so much about palms and soil! Honestly, I'm having a hard time keeping up with managing them, between understanding what fertilizer to use, to irrigation, and to the soil.. trying me best.  I do have sandy soil. Questions for you about the treatment for low ph soil.

1. What about this, and is there any risk in putting too much down so that it would hurt the palms? https://www.arbico-organics.com/product/granular-humic-acid-down-to-earth/organic-soil-conditioners 
2. When you say rinse the soil after the humic acid, do you mean just putting this down and turning on sprinkler irrigation for like.. 10 minutes?
3. How longer after doing that should one then put the dolomitic lime?
4. And how long after that humic acid and lime, would I apply the new fertilizer batch? I may go with PalmGain or the PalmPlus (13-5-8 CRF).. honestly the PalmGain looks better, but I can pick up that PalmPlus locally

I don't mean to inundate you with questions, I just never thought about addressing the pH previously. 

[sonoranfans]

4 hours ago, Ben F. said:

@sonoranfans you seem to know so much about palms and soil! Honestly, I'm having a hard time keeping up with managing them, between understanding what fertilizer to use, to irrigation, and to the soil.. trying me best.  I do have sandy soil. Questions for you about the treatment for low ph soil.

1. What about this, and is there any risk in putting too much down so that it would hurt the palms? https://www.arbico-organics.com/product/granular-humic-acid-down-to-earth/organic-soil-conditioners 
2. When you say rinse the soil after the humic acid, do you mean just putting this down and turning on sprinkler irrigation for like.. 10 minutes?
3. How longer after doing that should one then put the dolomitic lime?
4. And how long after that humic acid and lime, would I apply the new fertilizer batch? I may go with PalmGain or the PalmPlus (13-5-8 CRF).. honestly the PalmGain looks better, but I can pick up that PalmPlus locally

I don't mean to inundate you with questions, I just never thought about addressing the pH previously. 

1)  Not sure about putting down too much solid.  I use the liquid humic acid https://www.natureslawn.com/product/humic-acid/  

2) I would wait a day then use a sprinker for a few hours this should be enough to rinse away chelate excesses of micros.

3) dolomite lime next day after the sprinkler rinse, then water again for an hour or so.

4) I would wait till overnight lows are in the 65 F range till I fertilized  but keep irrigating

the chelated Iron is also a good idea for a bump at this time before the fertilizer takes over.