Texas Palms

[PA-TX2024]

1 hour ago, Robert Cade Ross said:

The younger ones seem to be more “resilient “ perhaps ? I’ve noticed all the volunteers around Galveston and costal areas look as happy as could be lol . The largest one in the east end is still recovering after looking like it was dying so who knows 😹😹🤷‍♂️

All of the CIDPs I've seen here in Central TX have fared well so far.

[PA-TX2024]

1 hour ago, _nevi said:

Honestly, I'd say that both Houston and San Antonio should go crazy planting queens. They seem to be cheaper than washingtonia as from what I see — and even with death, the slender/smaller trunks are easier to remove than the towering washingtonia trunks

I don't think SA should go crazy with Queen Palms. A few here and there would be nice, but not mass planted. That's exactly how Robustas should be treated in Austin.

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, PA-TX2024 said:

I don't think SA should go crazy with Queen Palms. A few here and there would be nice, but not mass planted. That's exactly how Robustas should be treated in Austin.

Exactly,  and it's not me being negative it's just reality . I don't want my tax money being wasted on mass Queen palm planting lol. Planting Sabals ok because I know they will survive and look good here all the time.  

[ahosey01]

7 hours ago, Xenon said:

I wonder why it takes so long for the CIDP to die fully in Galveston or New Orleans. The bronzing seems to be a lot more sporadic. In Houston, it seems like the vast majority of them died in one big wave within a decade or so. 

I do wonder if it is like LY and will begin to become less of a problem over time for whatever reason.

My understanding is in the 70s they thought they'd never be able to plant cocos in south Florida again: https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/30/archives/an-incurable-disease-is-killing-off-southern-floridas-coconut-palms.html

 

[NBTX11]

4 hours ago, MarcusH said:

I wish I could share your thoughts on this one but planting Queen palms , especially in San Antonio isn't a good idea . History shows. Let's bring up the 2020s so far we had one year where Queen palms had no chance of survival.  The other 2 winters weren't looking much better unless they were older and planted in microclimates.  Robustas take colder temperatures without a problem. I also want to bring up the recovery process.  While Queen palms take about 2 years to grow back a full crown,  Washies on the other hand can grow a full crown in as little as 6 months.  Speaks volume.  Robustas are more long term( not 100% ) in San Antonio,  where your enjoyment of growing Queen palms in your yard is just short term and my question is how many years out of maybe 10 to 15 years do they look good ? The southern part of Houston has a better chance of keeping them alive longer and better looking for the most part but not San Antonio.  Our winters since the 2020 are 7b and 8b.  Not a good outlook for growing Queens.  

Marcus, I got here in 2004 and a lot of queen palms had made it from 2004 -2021, even in New Braunfels. Many recovered from the 2010 and 2011 freezes. These palms were mature in 2004, so they likely had been planted in the 1990’s and lived all the way to 2021. It happened. 

[NBTX11]

SA should not go crazy with queen palms. Crazy with Washingtonia, yes

[MarcusH]

28 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

SA should not go crazy with queen palms. Crazy with Washingtonia, yes

James, you're right about that . I haven't said don't plant Queens and I'm sure they were a good amount of good looking mature Queens prior 2021 I just wouldn't support using tax payers money to plant those along roads here in San Antonio.  That would be a waste.  I see a massive amount of new Robustas and Filiferas planted all over San Antonio,  still fairly young like mine but in 10 years it will transform San Antonio landscape. 

[Fusca]

Just now, MarcusH said:

James, you're right about that . I haven't said don't plant Queens and I'm sure they were a good amount of good looking mature Queens prior 2021 I just wouldn't support using tax payers money to plant those along roads here in San Antonio.  That would be a waste.  I see a massive amount of new Robustas and Filiferas planted all over San Antonio,  still fairly young like mine but in 10 years it will transform San Antonio landscape. 

Yes, they should not be overly planted in commercial settings where they are left to either look ugly or die in a generational freeze, but there still should be some planted.  Especially in the warmer areas of south and far west San Antonio.  Home owners in the warmer zones should still plant them but they should be responsible by maintaining/protecting them.

[Robert Cade Ross]

Time to toss 100s of Chinese fan palm seeds around Houston lol .

[Ben G.]

11 hours ago, fr8train said:

Found it: 

https://maps.app.goo.gl/H5XtDEZ4kjY9peS88

Is this a silver date palm? It's impressive to find palms like these that made it through all the freezes, outside of the riverwalk. 

Here it is right before the big freeze: 

https://maps.app.goo.gl/1NiXT62CBJzhWEaA7

Man it looked great.

And a few years earlier there were a bunch of phoenix in that spot. 

https://maps.app.goo.gl/QeQJa2wZsXnnUS3P8

That's interesting. I am glad the one phoenix is still alive there. It's a shame the others didn't make it. 

Looks like the trunk is thin enough to be a sylvestris, but it (and some of the others in the older photos) have suckers popping up. So it must have some dactylifera in it.

[ahosey01]

1 hour ago, Robert Cade Ross said:

Time to toss 100s of Chinese fan palm seeds around Houston lol .

This is the way.

[ahosey01]

1 hour ago, Robert Cade Ross said:

Time to toss 100s of Chinese fan palm seeds around Houston lol .

If you can get some Livistona saribus seeds from @richtrav you should do the same thing with that species.  Good in the cold and even weirder and more exotic looking.

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, Robert Cade Ross said:

Time to toss 100s of Chinese fan palm seeds around Houston lol .

That's just what mine look like - not completely ripe but seeds should still germinate.

[fr8train]

8 hours ago, _nevi said:

Honestly, I'd say that both Houston and San Antonio should go crazy planting queens. They seem to be cheaper than washingtonia as from what I see — and even with death, the slender/smaller trunks are easier to remove than the towering washingtonia trunks

Nearly everything they sell here won't make it long term. I think people buy these palms, then get discouraged when they inevitably freeze. 

I'd be happy seeing Sabals everywhere as they'll make it through anything, but I never really see them for sale. It'd be cool if a nursery focused just on the palms that could make it here at a scale where those palms could be cheap, but it seems like most people just don't care. At least that's what I was told when I went to the John Fairey Gardens. It'd be awesome to see those silver sabals spread, but outside of palmtalk there isn't much interest.

[fr8train]

2 hours ago, Ben G. said:

That's interesting. I am glad the one phoenix is still alive there. It's a shame the others didn't make it. 

Looks like the trunk is thin enough to be a sylvestris, but it (and some of the others in the older photos) have suckers popping up. So it must have some dactylifera in it.

Yeah it's really cool to see one that made it through all of the freezes. I didn't realize there were so many that used to be there that didn't though. They looked so lush pre-2021. I hope this year we finally get a mild winter so all of the CIDP around town can fully bounce back. 

I've said this before, but another under utilized palm is the pindo. There's a very impressive one off of 410, iirc, that's taller than the building it's next to. 

[Robert Cade Ross]

1 hour ago, Fusca said:

That's just what mine look like - not completely ripe but seeds should still germinate.

I collected 4000 seeds last month and 80% germinated. 

[fr8train]

Found it:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Uw5jTRnw6HFbT1n26

[Robert Cade Ross]

11 minutes ago, fr8train said:

Nearly everything they sell here won't make it long term. I think people buy these palms, then get discouraged when they inevitably freeze. 

I'd be happy seeing Sabals everywhere as they'll make it through anything, but I never really see them for sale. It'd be cool if a nursery focused just on the palms that could make it here at a scale where those palms could be cheap, but it seems like most people just don't care. At least that's what I was told when I went to the John Fairey Gardens. It'd be awesome to see those silver sabals spread, but outside of palmtalk there isn't much interest.

Not to mention they are really expensive….. paid $106 for a 3 gal strap leaf last month from John fairy (silver uresana ) 

[fr8train]

3 minutes ago, Robert Cade Ross said:

Not to mention they are really expensive….. paid $106 for a 3 gal strap leaf last month from John fairy (silver uresana ) 

I'd love to have my own that produced seed, but by the time they get to that size and I could propagate them, then wait to grow them to any reasonable size, I'll probably be in my 70s or 80s lol

I got mine a bit cheaper. They were smaller, but I started posting about them and I think interest picked up that they were available for sale. I was told no one was interested prior to that, then I went back after posting they were available on here and apparently they were close to sold out. 

[MarcusH]

40 minutes ago, fr8train said:

Nearly everything they sell here won't make it long term. I think people buy these palms, then get discouraged when they inevitably freeze. 

I'd be happy seeing Sabals everywhere as they'll make it through anything, but I never really see them for sale. It'd be cool if a nursery focused just on the palms that could make it here at a scale where those palms could be cheap, but it seems like most people just don't care. At least that's what I was told when I went to the John Fairey Gardens. It'd be awesome to see those silver sabals spread, but outside of palmtalk there isn't much interest.

The big box stores here in San Antonio offer such a small variety of palms , typically Mexican fan, Queens and Med fan.  Sometimes Pindos . If you look for something more interesting go to Houston or other coastal cities.  The local nurseries charge you an arm and leg for Sabals it's ridiculous.  We have the potential to grow interesting palms but unfortunately those aren't easy to get in our area unless you pay big $$. 

[Ben G.]

39 minutes ago, fr8train said:

Found it:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Uw5jTRnw6HFbT1n26

I have definitely seen that Butia right off 410 before. It's an old one.

[MarcusH]

46 minutes ago, fr8train said:

Yeah it's really cool to see one that made it through all of the freezes. I didn't realize there were so many that used to be there that didn't though. They looked so lush pre-2021. I hope this year we finally get a mild winter so all of the CIDP around town can fully bounce back. 

I've said this before, but another under utilized palm is the pindo. There's a very impressive one off of 410, iirc, that's taller than the building it's next to. 

Dactyliferas are rare to see in SA. I still see some of them that survived 2021 . They also planted a bunch of tall ones at La Cantera , recently. 

[fr8train]

7 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

The big box stores here in San Antonio offer such a small variety of palms , typically Mexican fan, Queens and Med fan.  Sometimes Pindos . If you look for something more interesting go to Houston or other coastal cities.  The local nurseries charge you an arm and leg for Sabals it's ridiculous.  We have the potential to grow interesting palms but unfortunately those aren't easy to get in our area unless you pay big $$. 

I think if you can afford to and have the time to take off of work, it's worth driving to Florida or California and just loading up with everything you can. Maybe make a vacation out of it and rent a trailer if you have a vehicle that can tow. Joe Palma has a great selection of plants at good prices and he's outside of San Diego. There are some decent nurseries around Las Vegas too that have good sized Brahea Armata cheap. 

Some day when I settle on a more permanent house I'd like to do that. I just wish the housing market would correct a little, prices are astronomical compared to what they were before 2021. 

btw where have you seen pindos for sale? I've never seen them at a big box store here. 

[MarcusH]

4 minutes ago, Ben G. said:

I have definitely seen that Butia right off 410 before. It's an old one.

Lol yep I see this one on a daily basis when I'm at work.  

[fr8train]

8 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Dactyliferas are rare to see in SA. I still see some of them that survived 2021 . They also planted a bunch of tall ones at La Cantera , recently. 

By crumble cookies I think? They had one that survived the freezes coming back, but the other two died. I think they swapped out all three though.

It makes me wish they kept the CIDP hybrids by the entrance to the rim and just cut down or replaced the one that died. The others would have recovered eventually. 

There are some survivors by a hotel off of I-10. I posted them a while back. 

[MarcusH]

I don’t have no more space in the ground for more palms lol.  I have 5 Filiferas,  1 Robusta , 1 Butia O. and 1 S. Causarium growing in the ground.  My Filiferas and S.Causarium will take up a lot of space in about 5 years .  Now im trying to switch to more tropical stuff for pots. Recently bought a Ravenea Rivularis . I also have 2 pots of P. Roebelenii.  

[MarcusH]

6 minutes ago, fr8train said:

By crumble cookies I think? They had one that survived the freezes coming back, but the other two died. I think they swapped out all three though.

It makes me wish they kept the CIDP hybrids by the entrance to the rim and just cut down or replaced the one that died. The others would have recovered eventually. 

There are some survivors by a hotel off of I-10. I posted them a while back. 

The ones by the Tobin Center were fine or well at least some of them but they didn't give it a chance to let them recover so they chopped them down.  

[MarcusH]

4 hours ago, Fusca said:

Yes, they should not be overly planted in commercial settings where they are left to either look ugly or die in a generational freeze, but there still should be some planted.  Especially in the warmer areas of south and far west San Antonio.  Home owners in the warmer zones should still plant them but they should be responsible by maintaining/protecting them.

Convinced!! As a matter of fact the project Queen planting has already started at the Riverwalk.  I know at least 4 that are planted.  I know people plant those Queens in SA I have seen them in front yards but it's rare though.  

[fr8train]

9 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

The ones by the Tobin Center were fine or well at least some of them but they didn't give it a chance to let them recover so they chopped them down.  

It's a shame live palms get chopped down when so many clearly dead palms have been left as misshapen telephone poles for years. 

[RedRabbit]

10 hours ago, _nevi said:

Honestly, I'd say that both Houston and San Antonio should go crazy planting queens. They seem to be cheaper than washingtonia as from what I see — and even with death, the slender/smaller trunks are easier to remove than the towering washingtonia trunks

Noooo, just because you can doesn’t mean you should. I maintain queen palms are wholly undesirably despite them being a zone push here. There are better options. 

[MarcusH]

18 minutes ago, fr8train said:

It's a shame live palms get chopped down when so many clearly dead palms have been left as misshapen telephone poles for years. 

That's SA for you.  It's a city in decline.  Those dead palms would have been cut down in most other states . Not here.  No city code enforcement,  nothing,  because nobody cares in this city. 

[fr8train]

3 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

That's SA for you.  It's a city in decline.  Those dead palms would have been cut down in most other states . Not here.  No city code enforcement,  nothing,  because nobody cares in this city. 

A part of me honestly likes that. I'm not a fan of overregulation. But I would think as a business, home, or just land owner you'd want to maintain your property of your own free will. 

Like it costs money to plant palms and landscape, it also costs money and time to cut them down and remove them. I can understand if the owners really can't afford it, but a lot of them are on business property. Rent a chainsaw and do it yourself if you have to, I can't imagine it's that expensive. 

[Robert Cade Ross]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

I don’t have no more space in the ground for more palms lol.  I have 5 Filiferas,  1 Robusta , 1 Butia O. and 1 S. Causarium growing in the ground.  My Filiferas and S.Causarium will take up a lot of space in about 5 years .  Now im trying to switch to more tropical stuff for pots. Recently bought a Ravenea Rivularis . I also have 2 pots of P. Roebelenii.  

Look for some of the C.Radicalis hardy as hell and they look super tropical. Good for small filler spots .

[Xenon]

8 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Noooo, just because you can doesn’t mean you should. I maintain queen palms are wholly undesirably despite them being a zone push here. There are better options. 

Houston queens aren't like sandy Florida queens 😝, must be something about the heavy gumbo clay. They love it! Only place I've seen consistently good queens in Florida is closer to Jacksonville. Queens love the New Orleans swamp too.  Not century level bulletproof in any of those places but "zone push" is ridiculous lol. 

Let's make queens the #1 by a landslide most common pinnate palm in Houston again. But on private property so the other people in this thread don't raise the pitchforks LOL

Yes here's your bimonthly dose of luxuriant Houston queens a la broken record😄 . This thread needs more positivity 🌴

[Robert Cade Ross]

21 minutes ago, fr8train said:

A part of me honestly likes that. I'm not a fan of overregulation. But I would think as a business, home, or just land owner you'd want to maintain your property of your own free will. 

Like it costs money to plant palms and landscape, it also costs money and time to cut them down and remove them. I can understand if the owners really can't afford it, but a lot of them are on business property. Rent a chainsaw and do it yourself if you have to, I can't imagine it's that expensive. 

That’s basically all you see around Houston and the greater Houston area … massive dead palms left and right even along businesses  and the freeway just rotting away lol  our only hope is a powerful hurricane snaps the rotten  trunks even more . 

[Robert Cade Ross]

@Xenon where was this picture taken ? Those were pretty tall …

[Xenon]

7 minutes ago, Robert Cade Ross said:

@Xenon where was this picture taken ? Those were pretty tall …

 

At a church on the east side/Pasadena. I don't think they were the tallest, used to come across a lot of giants in the older residential areas. I always liked this one right on I-10 going into town, it was always visible from miles away while sitting in traffic lol

[fr8train]

@Xenon Where was that apartment complex that had all of those butia I think you posted a while back? I might be in Houston next weekend and I wanted to see it if I had time. 

[amh]

2 hours ago, fr8train said:

Nearly everything they sell here won't make it long term. I think people buy these palms, then get discouraged when they inevitably freeze. 

I'd be happy seeing Sabals everywhere as they'll make it through anything, but I never really see them for sale. It'd be cool if a nursery focused just on the palms that could make it here at a scale where those palms could be cheap, but it seems like most people just don't care. At least that's what I was told when I went to the John Fairey Gardens. It'd be awesome to see those silver sabals spread, but outside of palmtalk there isn't much interest.

Find me a source for cheap or free silver and blue sabal seeds, and I will flood the region with palms over the next 5 years.

The lack of interest in Sabal uresanas is simply due to people not knowing of their existence. If enough of these silver palms are planted in areas where the public can seen them, there will be a huge demand. I'm currently planning a cold hardy silver/blue palm demonstration garden in my front yard.

[Xenon]

7 minutes ago, fr8train said:

@Xenon Where was that apartment complex that had all of those butia I think you posted a while back? I might be in Houston next weekend and I wanted to see it if I had time. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@29.5907733,-95.2210229,3a,90y,203.54h,97.87t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sT8w9ENyX03z-MaEiMwgrqg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-7.865855985459646%26panoid%3DT8w9ENyX03z-MaEiMwgrqg%26yaw%3D203.5425490730724!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTExMy4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D