Texas Palms

[MarcusH]

22 minutes ago, ChrisA said:

Thanks Marcus, I’m glad I’m not alone in this.  I was thinking of protecting my Queen again, but no, it’s going to have to face reality if the weather gets too cold.  Besides it is fairly closely planted to a filifera which I considered removing.  I’m definitely leaving that tree and the Queen can either make it or not.  It’s still small enough I could rip it out with my hands if it dies.  I live near Mahncke Park, just a ways northeast of the Pearl on  higher ground. For radiational cold I’m about a degree or two warmer than the airport and just as cold during advective events with little shelter to the northern wind as I’m near the top of a ridge.

 

I know some may think us Texans are whiny about a bit of cold when the low now shows 24F but the fear isn’t that temp, it’s that there is absolutely nothing in the way to block the temperatures found one or two more states north of us, that’s what happened in 2021.  If the atmospheric dynamics direct that deepest core of cold it will not moderate much and would put us in a deep freeze.

 

Gonna keep watching this system and see what happens. I need more Sabal palms in my life, and more native plants!

 

 

If it's not the cold it's something else that can ruin your garden hobby from hurricanes to wildfires and pests.  

If you go with Sabals , cold fronts won't be your concern anymore but keep in mind Wash. Filiferas are very cold hardy too . Just take a look around town . 

We will know more by Saturday and Sunday about how cold it really gets. So far doesn't look that bad. 

[Robert Cade Ross]

Been on a silver palm drive lately added 5 silver uresana to my collection and 3 decent size silver saws  

 

looks like I’ll see temps between 24-29° as of today 

[Allen]

Hey I'm not in Texas but the forecast I just looked at for Monday has Texas getting hit with serious cold. 

https://www.ventusky.com/?p=32.2;-98.6;5&l=temperature-2m&t=20250120/1200

[amh]

Eh, enough with the fear porn. So far this has been an unnaturally mild winter and the low 20's to high teen predicted for Sunday to Wednesday are normal. That being said, fingers crossed for February. 

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, Allen said:

Hey I'm not in Texas but the forecast I just looked at for Monday has Texas getting hit with serious cold. 

https://www.ventusky.com/?p=32.2;-98.6;5&l=temperature-2m&t=20250120/1200

NWS is predicting 25f for SA on Monday. That's way above average.  I'm positive it gets colder but still everything is within the norm until we get below 16f. 

[fr8train]

I drove through Waring yesterday and was able to photograph these big sabals again. 

[PA-TX2024]

ID? I'm leaning Robusta. Walnut Avenue. NB

[PA-TX2024]

19 hours ago, PA-TX2024 said:

ID? I'm leaning Robusta. Walnut Avenue. NB

Here's a better picture of the palm.

[Xenon]

9 minutes ago, PA-TX2024 said:

Here's a better picture of the palm.

It's another robusta mutt usually found at the big box store 

[Meangreen94z]

20 hours ago, fr8train said:

I drove through Waring yesterday and was able to photograph these big sabals again. 

That’s right next to Welfare, Texas where a trunking Sabal minor grows. I spent some time out there and located a few small specimen, but all the old large palms are hidden on private property. Welfare, Waring, Comfort, etc are all lost in time, very scenic.

[fr8train]

2 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

That’s right next to Welfare, Texas where a trunking Sabal minor grows. I spent some time out there and located a few small specimen, but all the old large palms are hidden on private property. Welfare, Waring, Comfort, etc are all lost in time, very scenic.

I was doing a dollar general pokemon card run for a friend recently that took me through all those towns again. 

Medina, Comfort, Kerrville, Bandera, Pipe Creek. Waring I specifically drove out to to see the giant Sabals while having to kill an hour between appointments. I'll have to check out Welfare again, I didn't see the trunking Sabal minor. 

[DreaminAboutPalms]

Massive Filifera north of Dallas in Carrollton. There used to be a nearby hybrid of the same height that survived 2021 but it has died now - was alive a year ago but just drove past and saw half the trunk left…. Unfortunately lots of the Washingtonia that survived 2021 have since died, most in the last year even though it didn’t get that cold last winter. It’s been a tough few year stretch here. But thankfully Sabals are basically naturalized here and you see volunteers everywhere. 

[Jules48]

Hi everyone. I just joined this amazing group. I have a question…. For anyone in or near San Antonio…..are you worried about the upcoming snow/freeze Monday- Tuesday (1/20-21?) Ever since Feb 2021, I cringe when we get cold+precipitation.

I’m not certain what type of palm I have but I’m attaching 2 pics. One is right after Feb 2021 & the other is more recent. As you can see, it survived Feb 2021 but it’s a lot smaller. I’d appreciate anyone’s advice. I love my palm tree & I don’t want to lose it! Thank you!  

[Chester B]

3 hours ago, Jules48 said:

Hi everyone. I just joined this amazing group. I have a question…. For anyone in or near San Antonio…..are you worried about the upcoming snow/freeze Monday- Tuesday (1/20-21?) Ever since Feb 2021, I cringe when we get cold+precipitation.

I’m not certain what type of palm I have but I’m attaching 2 pics. One is right after Feb 2021 & the other is more recent. As you can see, it survived Feb 2021 but it’s a lot smaller. I’d appreciate anyone’s advice. I love my palm tree & I don’t want to lose it! Thank you!  

It looks like Livistona chinensis. Good luck is all I have to say, it’s too big to protect.  Looks like a lot more Texas palms are going to be killed, again….

[ChrisA]

Livistona chinensis for sure. You will likely lose the fronds if Wednesday morning ends up being as cold as they are now forecasting. Your lucky your palm survived 2021, there are several that size that I knew of that died. I’ve got a Queen palm I planted two summers ago. I’ve given up on it given the yearly z9 Palm killing winters. Got a hefty number of W, filifera and a few robustas, and a few sabal mexicanan; I’m not worried about any of them. I’ll likely protect my robustas but am confident they will be fine.

 

Best of luck for your Chinese Fan palm! This forecast won’t likely kill your palm but will keep the trend of knocking it back that continues to stress it out and keep it from regaining its full crown.

[John C]

Seconding what Chris A said, Livistona chinensis is quite trunk hardy, luckily. I grew one for years, and knew of quite a few around here outside of Fort Worth. Unfortunately, 2021 did mine in, but prior to that they were dependable. If we got a chilly winter, it was certain to defoliate, but it grew so quickly it really wasn't a big deal. Bounced back in spring once the heat set in. I would expect yours to defoliate, but should be alright with the coming cold otherwise. 

[Jules48]

12 hours ago, ChrisA said:

Livistona chinensis for sure. You will likely lose the fronds if Wednesday morning ends up being as cold as they are now forecasting. Your lucky your palm survived 2021, there are several that size that I knew of that died. I’ve got a Queen palm I planted two summers ago. I’ve given up on it given the yearly z9 Palm killing winters. Got a hefty number of W, filifera and a few robustas, and a few sabal mexicanan; I’m not worried about any of them. I’ll likely protect my robustas but am confident they will be fine.

 

Best of luck for your Chinese Fan palm! This forecast won’t likely kill your palm but will keep the trend of knocking it back that continues to stress it out and keep it from regaining its full crown.

Thank you! I’m praying it makes it. I thought about trying to wrap it in burlap but I know it would be pretty difficult to do (and hubby wasn’t too excited about doing that!) 

[Jules48]

12 hours ago, John C said:

Seconding what Chris A said, Livistona chinensis is quite trunk hardy, luckily. I grew one for years, and knew of quite a few around here outside of Fort Worth. Unfortunately, 2021 did mine in, but prior to that they were dependable. If we got a chilly winter, it was certain to defoliate, but it grew so quickly it really wasn't a big deal. Bounced back in spring once the heat set in. I would expect yours to defoliate, but should be alright with the coming cold otherwise. 

Thank you! I appreciate everyone’s comments. No matter what happens with my current palm, I’d like to plant 1 or 2 more for the future. I’ll definitely use this group’s suggestions for which are best for San Antonio! 

[Allen]

22 minutes ago, Jules48 said:

Thank you! I’m praying it makes it. I thought about trying to wrap it in burlap but I know it would be pretty difficult to do (and hubby wasn’t too excited about doing that!) 

A patio heater underneath and one of these thin tarps over the top with a long pool pole is my suggestion or take a 500W work light and attach to a pole and put aimed toward fronds preferably still covered like a umbrella

https://amazon.com/dp/B07N5F3X7G

https://amazon.com/dp/B000IJRMWM

[thyerr01]

Here is a pic of the surviving queen palm in Bellaire taken this morning to capture its growth between the freezes. Its actually in the early stages of flowering, which is impressive, but the developing spathe is on the other side. I'm hopeful it will be able to brush off this freeze.

[Xenon]

34 minutes ago, thyerr01 said:

Here is a pic of the surviving queen palm in Bellaire taken this morning to capture its growth between the freezes. Its actually in the early stages of flowering, which is impressive, but the developing spathe is on the other side. I'm hopeful it will be able to brush off this freeze.

Thanks for the pic! Wish we had taken more before all of the freezes for posterity. A picture is a thousand words 

[PA-TX2024]

15 hours ago, ChrisA said:

Livistona chinensis for sure. You will likely lose the fronds if Wednesday morning ends up being as cold as they are now forecasting. Your lucky your palm survived 2021, there are several that size that I knew of that died. I’ve got a Queen palm I planted two summers ago. I’ve given up on it given the yearly z9 Palm killing winters. Got a hefty number of W, filifera and a few robustas, and a few sabal mexicanan; I’m not worried about any of them. I’ll likely protect my robustas but am confident they will be fine.

 

Best of luck for your Chinese Fan palm! This forecast won’t likely kill your palm but will keep the trend of knocking it back that continues to stress it out and keep it from regaining its full crown.

Mule palms should replace queens here. The minimum for Queens is Corpus Christi or Galveston.

[thyerr01]

@Xenon Yeah, it would be nice to have some documentation of the various things that make it through these freezes. I wish we had more photos of some of the Arenga specimens in Houston. There was a photo of one at a local Mexican restaurant in the large thread that got removed. I wish I knew where that was, iirc it was quite close to me. More photos or surviving queens and Bismarckias would also be great.

[Robert Cade Ross]

2 hours ago, thyerr01 said:

@Xenon Yeah, it would be nice to have some documentation of the various things that make it through these freezes. I wish we had more photos of some of the Arenga specimens in Houston. There was a photo of one at a local Mexican restaurant in the large thread that got removed. I wish I knew where that was, iirc it was quite close to me. More photos or surviving queens and Bismarckias would also be great.

I know where the arenga is it’s still alive dm for address.. 

 

@Xenon looks like a 2018 January 19° ice storm 2.0 lol rip half the queens 😂✌️. 

[ChrisA]

6 hours ago, PA-TX2024 said:

Mule palms should replace queens here. The minimum for Queens is Corpus Christi or Galveston.

I haven’t really seen any mule palms doing so well here either.  Several died in the ‘21 freeze and those remaining that I know of have not exactly thrived. A few more planted since but have fried in the freezes we receive each year.

[PA-TX2024]

41 minutes ago, ChrisA said:

I haven’t really seen any mule palms doing so well here either.  Several died in the ‘21 freeze and those remaining that I know of have not exactly thrived. A few more planted since but have fried in the freezes we receive each year.

Frying is fine as long as it doesn't die. Sure it may not look pleasant but having survivors are preferred. They've been planting more mules than queens in SA lately I believe.

[MarcusH]

2 hours ago, ChrisA said:

I haven’t really seen any mule palms doing so well here either.  Several died in the ‘21 freeze and those remaining that I know of have not exactly thrived. A few more planted since but have fried in the freezes we receive each year.

I agree . I have seen some planted in neighbors front yard and they don't look too good to be honest.  Few fronds with some burn. 

[Chester B]

I’ve only seen two mule palms here at a house I looked at buying. They had 6+ feet of trunk but looked like they were brought in at a larger size. So that doesn’t give me a lot of confidence. I have 4 that have grown like rockets that will be planted next year. 

[amh]

4 hours ago, MarcusH said:

I agree . I have seen some planted in neighbors front yard and they don't look too good to be honest.  Few fronds with some burn. 

 

2 hours ago, Chester B said:

I’ve only seen two mule palms here at a house I looked at buying. They had 6+ feet of trunk but looked like they were brought in at a larger size. So that doesn’t give me a lot of confidence. I have 4 that have grown like rockets that will be planted next year. 

I purchased some seeds this fall/winter, so eventually I'll be trying to grow mules under oak canopy in compost rich clay/loam, hopefully that will keep them alive on normal years.

[ChrisA]

If you need a pinnate-leaved Palm in SA, I think I would stick to Phoenix. Just have never seen a lushly stunning specimen that even compared to Allen’s in Tennessee. Even a straight Butia here, despite its cold hardiness, often do not look to good. I think the soil conditions and maybe extremes of the climate keep them from looking as good as they should. Butia anywhere in the southeast look better than they do here in central TX. I am not saying they all look terrible, but the majority of them don’t look great. There were several large ones in my neighborhood which died in ‘21 I’m sure it wasn’t just the cold but that was the last stress to send them over the edge.

Here are my robusta’s basking in the warm sunshine yesterday, we’ll see how they look a few days from now! These were 1-gallon when planted May of ‘23, I’m impressed with their growth.

 

[Robert Cade Ross]

Chopped the queens down and mulched them hoping for the best same for the Bismarck palms it hurt me to cut blue fronds off  

[Ben G.]

3 hours ago, ChrisA said:

If you need a pinnate-leaved Palm in SA, I think I would stick to Phoenix. Just have never seen a lushly stunning specimen that even compared to Allen’s in Tennessee. Even a straight Butia here, despite its cold hardiness, often do not look to good. I think the soil conditions and maybe extremes of the climate keep them from looking as good as they should. Butia anywhere in the southeast look better than they do here in central TX. I am not saying they all look terrible, but the majority of them don’t look great. There were several large ones in my neighborhood which died in ‘21 I’m sure it wasn’t just the cold but that was the last stress to send them over the edge.

I have been thinking about this question of best pinnate palm for San Antonio since moving here, and I may agree that Phoenix are the best choice. I have seen some nice looking butias, but I have seen a good number that just don't look as good as they do on the Gulf Coast, further east.

I have some mule seeds I am sprouting now, and I hope I can get one or two nice, and fairly hardy, ones out of the bunch. I like thinner trunks on pinnate palms. I also prefer green palms in general more than silver/blue ones. So, I like CIDP best for color and full crowns, dactylifera have nicer trunks but sparse silver crowns, and Sylvester's have the thinnest trunks with full silver crowns.

I will probably buy some sylvestris seedlings soon so I can compare them to butias, mules, CIDP, and dactylifera over the years. I like all of these palms enough to feature them in my yard, but I am interested to see how they fare over the next few years.

My eyes tell me that CIDP will do fine. Butias can, but don't always, do fine. And I don't know if there have ever been enough mules, dactyliferas, or sylvestris around for good observation. I am sure they are all very capable of croaking in a bad cold snap. I guess I want to figure out if it takes a once every 10 year snap to kill them...or is it more like the once every 50 to 100 years event?

I am not likely to plant anything that I worry about in only average to slightly below average winters. If my zone is supposed to be average 9a though, I am not going to limit myself to only plants that can take 8a temps every year. I will try to take the middle ground of planting things that can take 8b temps at least every few years.

[ChrisA]

I'll be interested to see how it goes! I agree that the availability of mules, as well as the sheer cost they can fetch, has severely limited the planting of mules in this part of Texas. Palm Buddha has many, but their business model really isn't conducive to retail sales.  I've got my eyes on a grouping of 20-footer sylvestris over in SouthTown to see how they do. They were planted summer of '21 and so far have had all fronds burnt each winter - we'll see how cold we get in the next few days but if the current forecast prevails and comes with sleet, freezing rain, and snow I'd be surprised if they don't get torched yet again... 

Please check out my latest post, in the Weather/Climate forum to see the SATX data going back to the late 1800's and how the seasonal minimum temperatures have varied through the years. Current data for the decade of the 2020's is not looking favorable. 

I look forward to hearing more about your pinnate palm experiences as you move forward!  I'm keen to get some but just do not know what to do.  If I have to protect one anyhow I might as well plant my favorite coconut palm and call it a day! LOL!  Actually I'd really like Phoenix reclinata, they're super sexy with their deep green tropical fronds.

 

Cheers! 

 

 

 

[Xenon]

Front yard Sabal before the blizzard 

Sabal guatemalensis finally made a full recovery from 17F last year 

S. causiarum 

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, ChrisA said:

Actually I'd really like Phoenix reclinata, they're super sexy with their deep green tropical fronds.

 

Good thing about reclinata is that you're likely to get a recovering sucker even if you get a generational freeze.  

[Xenon]

Here's a local mule. It's one of the nice looking types. I think it was planted summer 2022?

Damaged by two freezes since planting in the mid-high teens but as you can see recovers just fine

[Ben G.]

2 hours ago, Fusca said:

Good thing about reclinata is that you're likely to get a recovering sucker even if you get a generational freeze.  

I like reclinata a lot too. At about what temps do their fronds tend to burn? I just wonder if they would have toasted fronds nearly every winter in the San Antonio area. Might be a good choice for areas closer to the coast though if they tend to come back from ground level.

[Ben G.]

3 hours ago, Xenon said:

Front yard Sabal before the blizzard 

Sabal guatemalensis finally made a full recovery from 17F last year 

S. causiarum 

Has your causiarum taken damage in the freezes of the last few years? I planted a small one out this year that already looks pretty rough after seeing 27F or 28F. I am used to some palms being less hardy when newly planted for sure, but other types of sabals have been pretty hardy for me from their first winters before. Just curious at what temps you see damage on yours...if you have seen damage on yours.

[Xenon]

5 minutes ago, Ben G. said:

Has your causiarum taken damage in the freezes of the last few years? I planted a small one out this year that already looks pretty rough after seeing 27F or 28F. I am used to some palms being less hardy when newly planted for sure, but other types of sabals have been pretty hardy for me from their first winters before. Just curious at what temps you see damage on yours...if you have seen damage on yours.

No damage last year from 17F. The guatemalensis next to it had 30-50% leaf burn 

[Keys6505]

On 1/18/2025 at 1:04 PM, thyerr01 said:

I wish we had more photos of some of the Arenga specimens in Houston.

Here's mine in League City planted in 2020.