Texas Palms

[Keys6505]

3 hours ago, Fusca said:

Good thing about reclinata is that you're likely to get a recovering sucker even if you get a generational freeze.  

I know someone was selling Reclinata x Sylvesris seeds on here recently.  I'd be interested in seeing what they look like and how they hold up.  A Reclinata look with Sylvesris cold resistance would be awesome.

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

No damage last year from 17F. The guatemalensis next to it had 30-50% leaf burn 

Interesting.  My guatemalensis only had about 30% damage after 9°.  It did get some help from live oak canopy however.  Similar damage to my coastal form of uresana.  I'm assuming that yours was out in the open.

[Robert Cade Ross]

The apocalypse is near… lol 

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, Keys6505 said:

I know someone was selling Reclinata x Sylvesris seeds on here recently.  I'd be interested in seeing what they look like and how they hold up.  A Reclinata look with Sylvesris cold resistance would be awesome.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this reclinata hybrid turns out (parentage unknown).  It's about the same size as my former theophrasti when it started suckering.  Interesting that its thorns are flexible and fronds are soft.  Might have some rupicola in it.

[PA-TX2024]

6 hours ago, Ben G. said:

I have been thinking about this question of best pinnate palm for San Antonio since moving here, and I may agree that Phoenix are the best choice. I have seen some nice looking butias, but I have seen a good number that just don't look as good as they do on the Gulf Coast, further east.

I have some mule seeds I am sprouting now, and I hope I can get one or two nice, and fairly hardy, ones out of the bunch. I like thinner trunks on pinnate palms. I also prefer green palms in general more than silver/blue ones. So, I like CIDP best for color and full crowns, dactylifera have nicer trunks but sparse silver crowns, and Sylvester's have the thinnest trunks with full silver crowns.

I will probably buy some sylvestris seedlings soon so I can compare them to butias, mules, CIDP, and dactylifera over the years. I like all of these palms enough to feature them in my yard, but I am interested to see how they fare over the next few years.

My eyes tell me that CIDP will do fine. Butias can, but don't always, do fine. And I don't know if there have ever been enough mules, dactyliferas, or sylvestris around for good observation. I am sure they are all very capable of croaking in a bad cold snap. I guess I want to figure out if it takes a once every 10 year snap to kill them...or is it more like the once every 50 to 100 years event?

I am not likely to plant anything that I worry about in only average to slightly below average winters. If my zone is supposed to be average 9a though, I am not going to limit myself to only plants that can take 8a temps every year. I will try to take the middle ground of planting things that can take 8b temps at least every few years.

Dactyliferas have thrived in SA for years. It can survive down to 15F I believe. It's a shame it got down to 9F in 2021. Every winter since then they would survive with some burns.

[thyerr01]

@Keys6505 Yeah, your one looks great. How large was it when it was planted? Mine are all from seed and unfortunately are too far from the house to get xmas lights, so they have defoliated each year, and havent put on as much size as I would like despite some being in the ground since 2021. Its interesting that your one is in full sun, mine really seem to need some shade.

I think Arenga should be far more widely planted in Houston, ideally to the point that we can get locally produced seed. I'm not sure how large they need to be to flower.

[ahosey01]

4 hours ago, Keys6505 said:

I know someone was selling Reclinata x Sylvesris seeds on here recently.  I'd be interested in seeing what they look like and how they hold up.  A Reclinata look with Sylvesris cold resistance would be awesome.

Thanks to @Fusca I have a similar cross in my yard (rec x theo) and if I had a time machine back to 1983 I still wouldn't protect it lol

 

And also post the link cause I would buy that...

[fr8train]

I went on another drive, south of the city this time. Here are a few photos. 

[fr8train]

Here are a few more I forgot. 

[MarcusH]

On 1/19/2025 at 1:24 PM, Ben G. said:

I have been thinking about this question of best pinnate palm for San Antonio since moving here, and I may agree that Phoenix are the best choice. I have seen some nice looking butias, but I have seen a good number that just don't look as good as they do on the Gulf Coast, further east.

I have some mule seeds I am sprouting now, and I hope I can get one or two nice, and fairly hardy, ones out of the bunch. I like thinner trunks on pinnate palms. I also prefer green palms in general more than silver/blue ones. So, I like CIDP best for color and full crowns, dactylifera have nicer trunks but sparse silver crowns, and Sylvester's have the thinnest trunks with full silver crowns.

I will probably buy some sylvestris seedlings soon so I can compare them to butias, mules, CIDP, and dactylifera over the years. I like all of these palms enough to feature them in my yard, but I am interested to see how they fare over the next few years.

My eyes tell me that CIDP will do fine. Butias can, but don't always, do fine. And I don't know if there have ever been enough mules, dactyliferas, or sylvestris around for good observation. I am sure they are all very capable of croaking in a bad cold snap. I guess I want to figure out if it takes a once every 10 year snap to kill them...or is it more like the once every 50 to 100 years event?

I am not likely to plant anything that I worry about in only average to slightly below average winters. If my zone is supposed to be average 9a though, I am not going to limit myself to only plants that can take 8a temps every year. I will try to take the middle ground of planting things that can take 8b temps at least every few years.

Hey Ben. I was thinking of buying Silvestrii seedlings.  I only need one. I hear the crown regrows back quick.  I know there's a nice couple of Silvestrii palms in Poteet that looks really good.  

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

Hey Ben. I was thinking of buying Silvestrii seedlings.  I only need one.

Hey Marcus, I've got some spare sylvestris seedlings if you're interested.  I germinated several seeds from a local tree 2 years ago and then got a larger palm so I can send one to you.

[Ben G.]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

Hey Ben. I was thinking of buying Silvestrii seedlings.  I only need one. I hear the crown regrows back quick.  I know there's a nice couple of Silvestrii palms in Poteet that looks really good.  

Let me know if you get any. I would be happy to trade or pay you if you have more than one.

If you just get your hands on one, I'll be interested to see how it does for you.

 

[PA-TX2024]

On 12/28/2024 at 3:33 PM, Robert Cade Ross said:

Humble queen survivor still kicking trunk rot damage is officially settled in lol … not bad for surviving every freeze including 2021 🙈

Looks like that Queen is done for. It's projected to drop below 20.

[MarcusH]

15 hours ago, Fusca said:

Hey Marcus, I've got some spare sylvestris seedlings if you're interested.  I germinated several seeds from a local tree 2 years ago and then got a larger palm so I can send one to you.

I'll PM you later the day John. Thank you . I'm very interested 

@Ben G. I would help you out since you have done me a favor in the past too.  

[Robert Cade Ross]

8 hours ago, PA-TX2024 said:

Looks like that Queen is done for. It's projected to drop below 20.

Probably gonna survive once again lol short lived cold spell only in the queen killer territory for like 3 hours as of this evenings overnight temp forecast 

[Dwarf Fan]

On 1/18/2025 at 12:36 PM, PA-TX2024 said:

Mule palms should replace queens here. The minimum for Queens is Corpus Christi or Galveston.

I am gonna go on record and say Queens are not hardy enough for Corpus Christi. Queens for the Valley, Mule palms for Corpus.

[fr8train]

I went on a bike ride this morning to catch a little bit of the snow before it melted. 

[Robert Cade Ross]

1 hour ago, Dwarf Fan said:

I am gonna go on record and say Queens are not hardy enough for Corpus Christi. Queens for the Valley, Mule palms for Corpus.

I only saw like 8 survivors  and 99% were right along the ocean front … in corpus 

[Ben G.]

8 hours ago, MarcusH said:

I'll PM you later the day John. Thank you . I'm very interested 

@Ben G. I would help you out since you have done me a favor in the past too.  

Thank you. I appreciate it.

[PA-TX2024]

3 hours ago, Dwarf Fan said:

I am gonna go on record and say Queens are not hardy enough for Corpus Christi. Queens for the Valley, Mule palms for Corpus.

What I mean by minimum is how long it'll last. Queens may not be bulletproof in Corpus but they can last for a very long time there. The recommended is definitely the RGV.

[MarcusH]

8 hours ago, PA-TX2024 said:

What I mean by minimum is how long it'll last. Queens may not be bulletproof in Corpus but they can last for a very long time there. The recommended is definitely the RGV.

The RGV region closer to the coast in Texas is the only region where Queens can grow long-term.  They aren't bulletproof in other parts in Texas. History and current events show. 

[ahosey01]

8 hours ago, MarcusH said:

The RGV region closer to the coast in Texas is the only region where Queens can grow long-term.  They aren't bulletproof in other parts in Texas. History and current events show. 

I beg to differ slightly - these are also long-term in Laredo.  Lots of pre-21 queens (and also Bismarckia, which, to me, are basically the same in terms of hardiness) there because the fairly dry climate and high diurnal temperature variation means that freezes don't stick around for days and days.  Laredo's all-time low is not much lower than that of Brownsville - presumably this is do to proximity to the sierra madre and also the drier climate.

Laredo actually has a very interesting mix of palms.  No LB there to speak of so there are some gigantic old canaries, really old date palms, large brahea, etc.  Lots of xeric stuff but also stuff you'd exppect in Brownsville like Paurotis palms etc.

[_nevi]

@ahosey01

I think the Sierra Madre mountains (or perhaps Hill Country elevations) might play a role regarding the "mildness" of the upper Rio Grande areas — likely from downsloping winds.

I've always noticed how "mild" things were in areas like Del Rio, Lajitas, Laredo, etc. Even when arctic blasts do happen, it's usually "one and done day", and they warm up quite quick.

Either that, or it could be that the drier climate in those areas helps to provide "slower growth" or "hardening" for plants, allowing them to survive freezes better? Whereas the wetter, humid coastal climates allow better plant growth ... which then becomes a liability when a huge arctic blast hits (due to "shocking" the plant)?

[Meangreen94z]

1 hour ago, _nevi said:

@ahosey01

I think the Sierra Madre mountains (or perhaps Hill Country elevations) might play a role regarding the "mildness" of the upper Rio Grande areas — likely from downsloping winds.

I've always noticed how "mild" things were in areas like Del Rio, Lajitas, Laredo, etc. Even when arctic blasts do happen, it's usually "one and done day", and they warm up quite quick.

Either that, or it could be that the drier climate in those areas helps to provide "slower growth" or "hardening" for plants, allowing them to survive freezes better? Whereas the wetter, humid coastal climates allow better plant growth ... which then becomes a liability when a huge arctic blast hits (due to "shocking" the plant)?

Most plant species do better in dry cold vs. wet cold. Laredo is relatively far south, further South in latitude than Corpus Christi, Tampa Bay, or Orlando. Obviously further inland and at a higher elevation (450 feet). Del Rio is equivalent to San Antonio and saw similar lows in 2021(11°F). Heading west of Del Rio though things quickly change. I believe Dryden dropped to 0°F in 2011.