Texas Palms

[Xenon]

There is the occassional ultra-tender "OG Bismarckia" (probably from a more coastal provenance) in the RGV, it occurs in both green form and silver form. It burns below 30F or so vs 24-25F for the form that became the "standard" (in the 90s? 2000?) Bismarckia now planted in FL and TX. 

[Dwarf Fan]

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

There is the occassional ultra-tender "OG Bismarckia" (probably from a more coastal provenance) in the RGV, it occurs in both green form and silver form. It burns below 30F or so vs 24-25F for the form that became the "standard" (in the 90s? 2000?) Bismarckia now planted in FL and TX. 

I ran across Phil Bergman’s post about the more rare green Bismarckia not that long ago, a few of his takeaways regarding hardiness:

“There is very little published about these green forms of the Bismarck Palm.  It likes sun and is probably cold hardy into the low 20’s F.  Most feel it’s not quite as cold hardy as the blue form.  On these green Bismarckias, often you’ll see red in the leaf stem or a hint of it on the leaves.  Of course, this is a full sun palm.  This is a very rare palm to find as everyone seeks out the blue type.  But, we have this more rare green form and have found they are showing nice cold hardiness to the low 20’s F.”

https://junglemusic.com/2023/09/bismarckia-species-mayotte-island-the-rare-green-bismarckia/

[Robert Cade Ross]

Hopefully mine can make it to maturity lol #Growmychildren 😹

[Xenon]

23 minutes ago, Dwarf Fan said:

I ran across Phil Bergman’s post about the more rare green Bismarckia not that long ago, a few of his takeaways regarding hardiness:

“There is very little published about these green forms of the Bismarck Palm.  It likes sun and is probably cold hardy into the low 20’s F.  Most feel it’s not quite as cold hardy as the blue form.  On these green Bismarckias, often you’ll see red in the leaf stem or a hint of it on the leaves.  Of course, this is a full sun palm.  This is a very rare palm to find as everyone seeks out the blue type.  But, we have this more rare green form and have found they are showing nice cold hardiness to the low 20’s F.”

https://junglemusic.com/2023/09/bismarckia-species-mayotte-island-the-rare-green-bismarckia/

There isn't one "green form" nor is there one "silver form". There are tender forms of "silver" Bismarckia as well. RPS used to sell Bismarckia sourced from coastal forest on Mayotte Island that were blue-green. 

[Xenon]

19 minutes ago, Robert Cade Ross said:

Hopefully mine can make it to maturity lol #Growmychildren 😹

 

Too much grass, needs more tropical! Some flashy dark green Philodendron selloum (whatever the current nomenclature is) would be cool flanking those Bizzies 🤩

[RedRabbit]

By the way, how far south do you need to go to start seeing ficus in Texas? I haven’t seen a single one around Houston, but upper teens may have been too cold for even the hardiest varieties. 

[Chester B]

13 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

By the way, how far south do you need to go to start seeing ficus in Texas? I haven’t seen a single one around Houston, but upper teens may have been too cold for even the hardiest varieties. 

My neighbor has one. Went through 19f last winter unprotected. Killed mostly to the ground but is now a pretty nice shrub.  It’s the dark form of Ficus elastica. Basically a dieback perennial in cold winters. 

[RedRabbit]

8 minutes ago, Chester B said:

My neighbor has one. Went through 19f last winter unprotected. Killed mostly to the ground but is now a pretty nice shrub.  It’s the dark form of Ficus elastica. Basically a dieback perennial in cold winters. 

Thanks, that’s encouraging! One of the hardier varieties may have potential here. 

[Xenon]

38 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

By the way, how far south do you need to go to start seeing ficus in Texas? I haven’t seen a single one around Houston, but upper teens may have been too cold for even the hardiest varieties. 

Most Ficus are 100% root hardy in Houston and all points south. Obviously they still freeze when it gets much below the upper 20s. There's a clump of Ficus elastica a few streets from me that's been there since the 2000s. I used to grow Ficus racemosa and it was an absolute monster. Even when it froze to the ground, would grow back 10-12 feet in a season with a wide spread. The vigor scared me so I removed it lol. Ficus umbellata has come back for me the past few cold years as well. 

After a decade of warmth, you started to see decent tree sized Ficus in urban Houston right up to 2010. 

As far as big tree sized Ficus, you used to see them near the water in Corpus. TAMU CC used to have very nice specimens on their campus before 2021. Moody Gardens in Galveston had a large Ficus macrophylla and random Ficus benghalensis trees in the parking lot. 

Currently the tree sized Focus are confined to the lower RGV +/- where the royal palms and Delonix regia are. Ficus religiosa is a lot more hardy and didn't freeze back as much. The more tropical ones i.e nitida, elastica, etc froze to the ground, to the main trunk, or to the lower most limbs for the biggest specimens in the warmest areas. 

[ahosey01]

3 hours ago, Xenon said:

There is the occassional ultra-tender "OG Bismarckia" (probably from a more coastal provenance) in the RGV, it occurs in both green form and silver form. It burns below 30F or so vs 24-25F for the form that became the "standard" (in the 90s? 2000?) Bismarckia now planted in FL and TX. 

There is one of these literally 5 minutes from me.  It is old and very green and it looked like shit this past winter but lived through 21.

[fr8train]

I went on a bike ride around Fair Oaks Ranch (Boerne area NW of San Antonio) the other day, and here are some of the palms I saw:

 

[fr8train]

Whenever you see roads carved out around here the ground looks like nothing but rock (caliche is what I was told it's called). It's impressive anything can grow on this sort of soil. The palms I posted seem to be doing quite well, only looking a little rough from the last few winter freezes, but recovering well otherwise. 

[Ben G.]

6 minutes ago, fr8train said:

Whenever you see roads carved out around here the ground looks like nothing but rock (caliche is what I was told it's called). It's impressive anything can grow on this sort of soil. The palms I posted seem to be doing quite well, only looking a little rough from the last few winter freezes, but recovering well otherwise. 

I am very impressed so see that windmill looking so healthy. I feel like most windmills I see growing in much sun in the SA area look pretty rough.

I am also hoping for a few years with winter lows above 20F. CIDP seem to have survived at pretty much 100%, but almost all have small crowns that need another season to look their best.

[Robert Cade Ross]

2 hours ago, Xenon said:

Too much grass, needs more tropical! Some flashy dark green Philodendron selloum (whatever the current nomenclature is) would be cool flanking those Bizzies 🤩

I’m removing all the grass around the palms in February or march and building a huge flower bed that will connect to all the palms and fill it up with various Hardy tropical plants and maybe some zone push stuff 👀🤞

[fr8train]

12 minutes ago, Ben G. said:

I am very impressed so see that windmill looking so healthy. I feel like most windmills I see growing in much sun in the SA area look pretty rough.

I am also hoping for a few years with winter lows above 20F. CIDP seem to have survived at pretty much 100%, but almost all have small crowns that need another season to look their best.

Yes, me too. They look nice and green, but nothing like what they did before the big freeze. It'd be nice to finally have a mild winter. 

[_nevi]

On 11/23/2024 at 6:42 PM, Xenon said:

I miss palmy Little Saigon/Chinatown 

I think queens can/should be mass planted again in Houston — the prices are cheap and the palms grow quite fast from what I've seen. That said, I think both sabal palmetto and sabal mexicana would serve as wiser investments for plantings out in the open or in public parks. Other species like mules, phoenix canariensis,and phoenix sylvestris can complement.

[Ben G.]

Lone Survivor:

I was traveling north on I-35 this week, when I noticed a nice tall robusta-looking Washingtonia just outside of Temple TX. I couldn't get a picture while I was driving, so I noted the location and looked it up on Google maps later.

The old photos on Google maps showed me that this washy was originally just one of three:

The two dead palms are gone now, and the survivor looks better currently than in any of the Google photos.

It has been kind of fascinating to see how variable Washingtonias are in their hardiness. I have seen so many dead trunks across TX, and many more live palms still thriving next to the stumps. 

On my drive up 35 though, this was the northernmost tall Washingtonia I spotted. There may be others of course, I just didn't see them.

I was happy to see a good number of palmetto being used in Dallas landscapes too.

[Dwarf Fan]

3 hours ago, Xenon said:

There isn't one "green form" nor is there one "silver form". There are tender forms of "silver" Bismarckia as well. RPS used to sell Bismarckia sourced from coastal forest on Mayotte Island that were blue-green. 

Well that doesn’t make things any easier, thanks for the nuance though. Glad I don’t want one in either color. 😝

[NBTX11]

58 minutes ago, Ben G. said:

On my drive up 35 though, this was the northernmost tall Washingtonia I spotted. There may be others of course, I just didn't see them.

There’s several in Waco. Some visible from I35. 

[Ben G.]

8 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

There’s several in Waco. Some visible from I35. 

We were looking for a gas station by the time we got to Waco, so maybe just wasn't looking hard enough for palms there.

I did see some nice old live oaks there though.

[Robert Cade Ross]

18 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

By the way, how far south do you need to go to start seeing ficus in Texas? I haven’t seen a single one around Houston, but upper teens may have been too cold for even the hardiest varieties. 

I see the rubber trees all over Galveston and here and there around town . Most seem to not be as vigorously growing back this time . 

[RedRabbit]

3 hours ago, Robert Cade Ross said:

I see the rubber trees all over Galveston and here and there around town . Most seem to not be as vigorously growing back this time . 

Thanks, I must have not noticed them in Galveston. 

[Robert Cade Ross]

17 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Thanks, I must have not noticed them in Galveston. 

Most are in the historic district area . The reddish variety are what I see most. 

[PA-TX2024]

Got some Washingtonia growing here, mostly Robusta and a couple Filifera growing here on Landa St across from the DQ in NB.

[Robert Cade Ross]

East sided cold front 👀 @Xenon we catch a break so far lol 

[jwitt]

3 hours ago, Robert Cade Ross said:

East sided cold front 👀 @Xenon we catch a break so far lol 

......and it's only November!

[jwitt]

@PA-TX2024I like this one!

[NBTX11]

9 hours ago, PA-TX2024 said:

Got some Washingtonia growing here, mostly Robusta and a couple Filifera growing here on Landa St across from the DQ in NB.

There were some robusta across the street from DQ that froze in 2021, but they left behind seeds that later germinated 

[Robert Cade Ross]

Good morning from Galveston. Found another queen survivor and a fiddle leaf fig coming back after the most recent freeze . And moody gardens has started replacing palms first sabals lol @Xenon your favorite 😹😉

[Xenon]

40 minutes ago, Robert Cade Ross said:

 And moody gardens has started replacing palms first sabals lol @Xenon your favorite 😹😉

Ewwwwwww please let them be mexicana at the very least and not the horrid palmettos 🤮

[ChrisA]

@Robert Cade Ross I like that tall Washie in your first picture above from Galveston. Perhaps a bit over trimmed, but a nice gray trunk. 

[Ben G.]

5 hours ago, Robert Cade Ross said:

Good morning from Galveston. Found another queen survivor and a fiddle leaf fig coming back after the most recent freeze . And moody gardens has started replacing palms first sabals lol @Xenon your favorite 😹😉

 

This is the perfect Phoenix, in my opinion. I love the deep green foliage, and I like that the trunk isn't as thick as a typical CIDP.

Thank you for posting this one....the royals are really nice too though.

[jwitt]

@Robert Cade RossWhat's that trunk saying? Is that scarring linked to Galveston events?.

[Xenon]

14 minutes ago, jwitt said:

@Robert Cade RossWhat's that trunk saying? Is that scarring linked to Galveston events?.

Probably just trunk rot from uber high humidity and some hurricanes, it's one of the most humid summer places in the U.S....consistently beats out pretty much all of FL in dew points and night time lows. It was "only" 14F in 1989 and then nothing below 25F for the next 31 years 

[MarcusH]

On 11/26/2024 at 2:58 PM, Xenon said:

Ewwwwwww please let them be mexicana at the very least and not the horrid palmettos 🤮

Well my friend one thing for sure.  Any Sabal Palmetto will laugh at any our winters especially here in the southern region of Texas and still look green all year long unlike your beloved Queen palms that look so beaten up after a 8 zone winter ( if they survived) .  It's a palm that easy to grow , doesn't get bothered by our winters and has a nice full crown .  Show that palm some respect lol. 

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

Well my friend one thing for sure.  Any Sabal Palmetto will laugh at any our winters especially here in the southern region of Texas and still look green all year long unlike your beloved Queen palms that look so beaten up after a 8 zone winter ( if they survived) .  It's a palm that easy to grow , doesn't get bothered by our winters and has a nice full crown .  Show that palm some respect lol. 

As stated, I like/tolerate mexicanas and not palmettos. Is that ok? Palmettos are the ugliest palm around here, probably due to the hidden petioles and smaller crown vs mexicana. Mexicana happens to be native to part of southern Texas too.  Post had nothing to do with queen palms 🫠

[fr8train]

4 minutes ago, Xenon said:

As stated, I like/tolerate mexicanas and not palmettos. Is that ok? Palmettos are the ugliest palm around here, probably due to the hidden petioles and smaller crown vs mexicana. Mexicana happens to be native to part of southern Texas too.  Post had nothing to do with queen palms 🫠

I love the way palmettos look when they're not over trimmed. Very spherical and symmetrical. They look like toilet brushes when they're over trimmed.

But I get it, we don't all like the same things lol

[Xenon]

23 minutes ago, fr8train said:

Very spherical and symmetrical. 

You've pinpointed exactly why I don't like them hahaha 

[ahosey01]

37 minutes ago, Xenon said:

As stated, I like/tolerate mexicanas and not palmettos. Is that ok? Palmettos are the ugliest palm around here, probably due to the hidden petioles and smaller crown vs mexicana. Mexicana happens to be native to part of southern Texas too.  Post had nothing to do with queen palms 🫠

Can we all agree that Sabal mauritiiformis is a really cool palm though?

[ahosey01]

41 minutes ago, fr8train said:

But I get it, we don't all like the same things lol

Does anyone actually dislike a big ass Roystonea regia? lol