Any Chance for My Robustas?

[WacoPalm]

The deep freeze in central Texas from mid-January did a number on my Washingtonia Robustas.  They have about 3 years in the ground, about 5 years old total, 3-4' trunks. I protected with frost cloth and C9s, which usually works, but we lost power for nearly 8 hours while temps were in the low teens. Initially they seemed to be alright and were pushing new green growth when the temps rose. I was keeping a watch for fungal growth, saw no signs and so did not treat the trees. I just returned from a ten day trip out of town to find mold and fungus in the heart of one of the trees. I gave a tug and got a spear pull. There is still some green in the heart area. I have sprayed peroxide into the heart (of them all now, not just the spear pull tree).  Does anyone have experience with this and the tree actually pulling through and surviving? what are my odds here? (Hewitt, Texas zone 8b)

[Leelanau Palms]

Please share pictures 

[MarcusH]

3 hours ago, Leelanau Palms said:

Please share pictures 

I don't have the same experience.  I planted my Robusta in March 2022 . Protected it the first winter when it got down to 16F with no heat source then this year it got down between 17-19f in my neighborhood and my Robusta was completely naked like Adam and Eve once were lol.  It just completely defoliated again . Long story short its already pushing the burned fronts out . How cold did it get ? Did you water your palms prior your trip ? I market my spear it grew a few inches so far. Keep watering your palm about 3 times a week since temperatures are already going up. 

[WacoPalm]

They got plenty of watering from rain prior to me going away, and while I was away.  I wonder if this contributed to the fungal growth.  I also marked the spear and had great initial growth. I thought I was in the clear prior to going away. 

[Swolte]

I'd say you have a good chance for survival. You'll know when it will really start to warm up in a few weeks.  Looking at the forecast, it looks like we're in for an early spring which would help recovery. In the meantime, there's not much you can do other than to keep water from the crown and spray with a fungicide. 

Keep us posted!

[Chester B]

Get copper fungicide on all of them ASAP. Aside from that it’s a waiting game. I think your chance are good for recovery. 

[WacoPalm]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:03 PM, Chester B said:

Get copper fungicide on all of them ASAP. Aside from that it’s a waiting game. I think your chance are good for recovery. 

I sprayed the outer area, and poured the copper fungicide down into the heart where the spear pulled from. Hoping for the best.

[Chester B]

1 minute ago, WacoPalm said:

I sprayed the outer area, and poured the copper fungicide down into the heart where the spear pulled from. Hoping for the best.

That will work.  Good luck.

[WacoPalm]

6 minutes ago, Chester B said:

That will work.  Good luck.

How long before I know? How long do I give the tree to rebound after spear pull before throwing in the towel? Temps will be in the 70s and 80s the next few weeks.

[Chester B]

I'm not going to speak for your area, as I don't have a lot of experience in that climate.  Personally I would wait until summer, you'd be surprised how long it takes for some palms to recover.  It may show good signs in the next couple of weeks, or it could take months.   I've seen palms needing almost a year to show signs of recovery.  It's really a case by case situation and its up to you how long you're willing to wait.  Some people don't want to wait and would rather replace it right away and that's ok too.  

[WacoPalm]

There seems to be a happy ending to this thread. My one robusta is in full recovery with swift new growth. The more severely damaged tree is also recovering, although more slowly. I topped the more damaged tree. It only needed a couple of inched before i reached clean healthy frond tissue. This one has now also been pushing the growth up.

[Leelanau Palms]

Great news! Happy for you! 👍

[WacoPalm]

I had thought the fungi were eliminated, so had not been watching closely. The tree had seemed to be growing new healthy fronds. However, the latest spear I just noticed is coming out black and deformed. Im attributing this to the immense amount of rain we've had the past few weeks. The recovery must have set back with all the water funneling down into the spear area. Ive begun the copper treatments again. Am i fighting a losing battle? Or will recovery fully occur when the spring rains subside, and dry summer heat arrives?

[Swolte]

Yes, these rains have done a number on some of my palms too. If there's stuff being pushed out (even black), you're very likely still in good shape. If there's no movement for days, you might be in trouble. Keep up the fungicide until you see some healthy green again. 

[WacoPalm]

The one tree is flourishing. I included a pic of that one. 

The other tree is still having issues. Im not certain if it was the right call but i started again at square one.  I topped the tree of everything cutting down an inch or two below the canopy until the center looked to be clean and fungus undamaged growth. I then sprayed peroxide onto the cut. After the peroxide spray I noticed multiple little bugs emerging from the tree. I will post a picture of the bugs. Can anyone identify or advise if this is part of the trees problem? 

[WSimpson]

The outer areas of the palm looks heathy but can you put your finger into the center and is it mush ? If it is mush I'd keep cutting  deeper down into the crown . Rot keeps going down until it kills the entire bud . Go down until it is solid healthy tissue . You should see a little growth within a couple days if there is healthy growth still left in the bud . 

I'm not optimistic if that center is mush . Also check the smell of that mush in the center . If it's putrid , cut further into the trunk till you get to healthy tissue , as mentioned earlier . Basically what I've learned is that you have to get ahead of the rot and clear it out or it keeps going down  into the bud . 

Keep us posted on its status .

Will

[WacoPalm]

On 5/22/2024 at 3:56 PM, WSimpson said:

The outer areas of the palm looks heathy but can you put your finger into the center and is it mush ? If it is mush I'd keep cutting  deeper down into the crown . Rot keeps going down until it kills the entire bud . Go down until it is solid healthy tissue . You should see a little growth within a couple days if there is healthy growth still left in the bud . 

I'm not optimistic if that center is mush . Also check the smell of that mush in the center . If it's putrid , cut further into the trunk till you get to healthy tissue , as mentioned earlier . Basically what I've learned is that you have to get ahead of the rot and clear it out or it keeps going down  into the bud . 

Keep us posted on its status .

Will

Thanks for the tips. It was mushy and putrid. I've cut a few more inches down and it seems much improved but I can't be certain. I didn't want to cut too far down and kill it. Im going to treat with copper fungicide now and wait a few weeks and see how it responds. If there is no clean growth I will remove the tree.  I have some two-year-old Filferas that I can put in the ground to replace at that point.

[WSimpson]

On 5/24/2024 at 5:03 PM, WacoPalm said:

Thanks for the tips. It was mushy and putrid. I've cut a few more inches down and it seems much improved but I can't be certain. I didn't want to cut too far down and kill it. Im going to treat with copper fungicide now and wait a few weeks and see how it responds. If there is no clean growth I will remove the tree.  I have some two-year-old Filferas that I can put in the ground to replace at that point.

Do you have a picture . You should see growth in a few days .

Thanks 

[WacoPalm]

On 5/26/2024 at 1:20 PM, WSimpson said:

Do you have a picture . You should see growth in a few days .

Thanks 

Its been 5 days and there is about an inch of upward growth from the center, However that growth is black and mushy. Nothing green or resembling healthy growth. Should I keep cutting further down?

[Las Palmas Norte]

If it's moving upward in the center, that indicates growth. Keep the emerging central growth point dry during this phase of recovery. Sun and warmth are the key ingredients for recovery.

[SeanK]

I had one for quite a few years. Not as big as @WSimpson's but reached the top of the house. It started growing in early March and put out 25-27 leaves a year.

If it doesn't push a spear by July 4th, it's DOA.

[WacoPalm]

So unfortunately, I had to remove the palm. I replaced it with a nearly two-year-old Filifera seedling. And now that tree is having issues. I am hoping transplant shock but cant be certain. Have i been watering too much or too little? I havent changed any of the watering pattern or sun exposure, the only change is that it was put in the ground. To say that I am frustrated is an understatement. Ive included pictures of the tree in ground and its healthy brother still in the pot. Since this was taken a few days ago the spear has become even more brown and dried out appearing. 

[BigBilly]

On 5/31/2024 at 9:49 AM, SeanK said:

I had one for quite a few years. Not as big as @WSimpson's but reached the top of the house. It started growing in early March and put out 25-27 leaves a year.

If it doesn't push a spear by July 4th, it's DOA.

Please tell me you have a picture of it 

[SeanK]

Photo from 2007. It lasted 3 more years. We then got 5 snowfalls in the 2010-2011 winter.

[jwitt]

@WacoPalm Way too little water is my guess.  Use a hose and soak the ground.  Keep the ground wet/moist.

 

[RJ]

Looks like he has drippers on it. 

[WacoPalm]

I have it hooked up to the irrigation but have not been running it much. I had presumed less water was better since their natural habitat is arid. I can certainly up the watering. The one in the pot is still thriving with the same amount of water though. 

[Darold Petty]

WacoPalm,  Washingtonia filifera occurs in the desert, but only at natural water sites, where the San Andreas faultlines causes geologic water to rise near the surface.  (artesian water).  If you have good drainage more water is advised. 

The palm grove at Anza Borrego State Park is a particularly beautiful example of these natural oases.     

[jwitt]

2 hours ago, WacoPalm said:

I have it hooked up to the irrigation but have not been running it much. I had presumed less water was better since their natural habitat is arid. I can certainly up the watering. The one in the pot is still thriving with the same amount of water though. 

They actually grow in swamps. Several palm oasis even have fish. I will say it again, they grow naturally in swamps. 

Those swamps are in the desert. Those palms(filifera) do not grow in the desert, naturally. If they did, they would be everywhere like cactus or creosote.  

Much bad advice concerning this species including many, many mistruths. 

This species has an ability to go dormant and that is a survival trait for drought, fire, and cold, that may be unrivaled.  Probably what your palm is experiencing now.  

Probably near impossible to "over water" a growing filifera.

[jwitt]

Filifera roots in Palm Canyon.

In the desert.

[WacoPalm]

23 hours ago, jwitt said:

They actually grow in swamps. Several palm oasis even have fish. I will say it again, they grow naturally in swamps. 

Those swamps are in the desert. Those palms(filifera) do not grow in the desert, naturally. If they did, they would be everywhere like cactus or creosote.  

Much bad advice concerning this species including many, many mistruths. 

This species has an ability to go dormant and that is a survival trait for drought, fire, and cold, that may be unrivaled.  Probably what your palm is experiencing now.  

Probably near impossible to "over water" a growing filifera.

I am going to deep water it all week and see if i can get some green growth to push. Thank you.

[jwitt]

@WacoPalm

Yes, keep it moist with deep watering. It will probably start growing soon in a couple of weeks. 

That said, I would keep it moist until mid/late fall, and then stop watering to slow it down for winter.  Give it several years(3-5) to get established.  After establishment, it would likely survive on N Texas moisture, without supplemental. But it has to grow a healthy root system first

Best thing you can do now is deep water it. . 

The roots will find water in time

[WacoPalm]

This Filifera continues to push dry crispy brown frond. Or maybe its stopped pushing but appears dried out despite multiple deep waters.  I have flooded it several times. Just keep watering it?

[jwitt]

I would keep the soil somewhat moist. 

I go back to what I said in an earlier post,

"This species has an ability to go dormant and that is a survival trait for drought, fire, and cold, that may be unrivaled.  Probably what your palm is experiencing now.  "

It may be a week, or month, or more to see new growth, if...... it happens. 

My thought

Question - when you planted it, what was the soil like? Dry, wet? 

[WacoPalm]

10 hours ago, jwitt said:

I would keep the soil somewhat moist. 

I go back to what I said in an earlier post,

"This species has an ability to go dormant and that is a survival trait for drought, fire, and cold, that may be unrivaled.  Probably what your palm is experiencing now.  "

It may be a week, or month, or more to see new growth, if...... it happens. 

My thought

Question - when you planted it, what was the soil like? Dry, wet? 

The soil in the pot was dry. I had grown it from seed nearly two years ago. It was my best specimen from that batch, and that is why i put it in ground to be permanent fixture. I dug out the old dead palm that I was replacing, removed much of the surrounding dirt and replaced it with fresh soil. The soil from the pot that it was rooted in was a cactus mix. The soil that i added around the large hole to fill was a regular outdoor potting mix with some perlite added.  I watered heavily right after transplant, then infrequently until this thread suggested otherwise. Perhaps its transplant shock? Too much full sun at once? The soil that I added around not draining well enough? 

The other tree that I still have in pot from this same batch is not having these issues. 

[jwitt]

@WacoPalmI can only go by what you wrote. 

Now your questioning the sun and such but you first wrote " I havent changed any of the watering pattern or sun exposure, the only change is that it was put in the ground. "

I asked you what the soil was like. I think I was unclear.  The soil you removed from the planting hole, was it wet or dry, prior to you heavily irrigating it? 

Ultimately I think transplant shock is correct.  That said, this species has an incredible ability to go dormant, and they can be a bit bit finicky. 

If you had luck with the dry, think that is the answer, I wholeheartedly respect that. 

If letting it dry out works, please update. I am still learning.

 

 

[WacoPalm]

Im just grasping at straws looking for advice for any reason why this tree turned. I will just wait it out and hope it rebounds.

[DoomsDave]

@jwitt Thanks for your learned commentary and observations.

You gave an old mule (me) a knock on the noggin with a 2 by 4, to jar the lump of mis-observations loose a bit. I concur about Washies not being serious desert plants like cacti or maybe Braheas.

If you ever get desperate enough for entertainment, go visit the various parks in the desert near Palm Springs (esp. Desert Hot Springs) that go along the southern edge of the mountains, and, right there is the mighty San Andreas Fault. Any river or stream that crosses the fault line is dammed by "fault gouge" a claylike substance that acts as a de facto dam to hold water, and form these subterranean places where water lingers. (Not to be confused with Palm Canyon on the other side of Palm Springs.)

Washies love that kind of place, and I'll remember till my last day when I stood on the mighty SA fault and could see the lines of palms along it, as far to the east as my then-youthful eyes could see. All along the fault line, and nowhere else, like some gardener planted them there for effect.

 

[jwitt]

2 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

@jwitt Thanks for your learned commentary and observations.

You gave an old mule (me) a knock on the noggin with a 2 by 4, to jar the lump of mis-observations loose a bit. I concur about Washies not being serious desert plants like cacti or maybe Braheas.

If you ever get desperate enough for entertainment, go visit the various parks in the desert near Palm Springs (esp. Desert Hot Springs) that go along the southern edge of the mountains, and, right there is the mighty San Andreas Fault. Any river or stream that crosses the fault line is dammed by "fault gouge" a claylike substance that acts as a de facto dam to hold water, and form these subterranean places where water lingers. (Not to be confused with Palm Canyon on the other side of Palm Springs.)

Washies love that kind of place, and I'll remember till my last day when I stood on the mighty SA fault and could see the lines of palms along it, as far to the east as my then-youthful eyes could see. All along the fault line, and nowhere else, like some gardener planted them there for effect.

 

Thank you for your kind remarks.  I am also an older one, infatuated with filifera at a very young age(11-12).  Nearly a half century later, here I am. 

I do want to visit those places you describe one of these upcoming winters. 

That said, this species, discovered in 1876, has truthfully been in gardens not much more than a century.  For a plant that is suspected to live for 2 and a half centuries,  I surmise there is probably more to "learn".

 

[DoomsDave]

2 hours ago, jwitt said:

Thank you for your kind remarks.  I am also an older one, infatuated with filifera at a very young age(11-12).  Nearly a half century later, here I am. 

I do want to visit those places you describe one of these upcoming winters. 

That said, this species, discovered in 1876, has truthfully been in gardens not much more than a century.  For a plant that is suspected to live for 2 and a half centuries,  I surmise there is probably more to "learn".

 

Having been in California for almost 40 years (from Ohio) I've been inclined to take Washies for granted in general. They're EVERYWHERE. They pop up in my palm snobby garden, and I'm always digging them up or shooting them with glyphosate. I once made kimchi out of Washie Heart. (Pretty good.)

But I've seen them in places I didn't expect. Southern Utah. Parts of Nevada. Even well-drained places in Alabama and Mississippi. As well as pictures from the rest of the world. And had occasion to glory in their toughness.

See my PM . . . .