Should I try to transplant my Birmingham Sabal?

[Ben G.]

7 years after building a home here in rural Northeast Oklahoma, a change at work has caused me to look for new work opportunities. I have secured a new job in the San Antonio Texas area, and we will likely be moving before the end of April.

Most of my in-ground palms are needles and some smaller sabal minors. Although I hate to see them go, I plan on leaving them all behind for whoever buys our home. 

The only in-ground palm that I am considering taking with me is my Sabal birmingham. I grew it from seed from the last batch of seed produced by the infamous birmingham that grew for 20 years in Tulsa before it died. I had a handful of the seeds given to me, but the palm had been dead for a year or two before I sowed them.  This was the only seed that sprouted from the bunch. So I hate to leave it behind, if I don't have to.

On the other hand, transplanting non-trunking sabals is supposed to be pretty tricky. So I will ask all of you here. Should I try to transplant this palm? Or should I let it have a shot at life with the next owner of the house?

 

Edited February 22 by Ben OK
Typo

[Ben G.]

Just now, Ben OK said:

7 years after building a home here in rural Northeast Oklahoma, a change at work has caused me to look for new work opportunities. I have secured a new job in the San Antonio Texas area, and we will likely be moving before the end of April.

Most of my in ground palms are needles and some smaller sabal minors. Although I hate to see them go, I plan on leaving them all behind for whoever buys our home. 

The only in-ground palm that I am considering taking with me is my Sabal birmingham. I grew from seed from the last batch of seed produced by the infamous birmingham that grew for 20 years in Tulsa before it died. I had a handful of the seeds given to me, but the palm had been dead for a year or two before I sowed the seeds. This was the only seed that sprouted from the bunch. So I hate to leave it behind, if I don't have to.

On the other hand, transplanting non-trunking sabals is supposed to be pretty tricky. So I will ask all of you here. Should I try to transplant this palm? Or should I let it have a shot at life with the next owner of the house?

 

Here it was last December, though it looks rough again after another -2F low this winter.

[Allen]

I think one that size/age will die within 6 months after moving.   They can look alive for quite a while.  I mean I hate to tell you no if you are attached to it so if you want to try it all you've lost is some work......  

Edited February 22 by Allen

[ZPalms]

I always have this looming idea of my family moving houses eventually in the future and I don’t wanna leave any sabals I have behind

this might be excessive but I wonder if a truck like this would make moving smaller sabals more successful?

[JLM]

If I remember correctly one of the issues with sabals is when the roots are cut they can’t just branch off from the broken areas, they have to regrow entirely from the palm. So honestly if you can do it without disturbing the roots at all it would have a good chance, but the problem is that the chance of not disturbing any roots is slim to none.
 

If you try it, good luck and keep us updated on its progress.

[SeanK]

Leave the Sabal where it is. Go order a couple of Butiagrus hybrids and Washie filiferss..

[Swolte]

Hard to say. I read varying reports on transplantation success with sabals. They are able to regrow roots from the base again but, during that time, won't be able to sustain much of the fronds. In any event, try and get as much of the root ball as you can and be prepared to baby it for a long while. Also, brace for disappointment as, even if you're able to keep it alive, growth may be stunted for a few years. 

[N8ALLRIGHT]

If you knew that whoever was going to buy the house were plant people I'd say leave it.  Odds are that they aren't and won't care about it.  It's nearness to what looks like your driveway could be a recipe for removal by homeowners who just aren't interested in plants that may look ragged after every other winter.  I know it's difficult to transplant Sabals, but my guess is it is on borrowed time when you move.  Dig big,maybe like 24" box big. Cross fingers 

[Ben G.]

4 hours ago, ZPalms said:

I always have this looming idea of my family moving houses eventually in the future and I don’t wanna leave any sabals I have behind

this might be excessive but I wonder if a truck like this would make moving smaller sabals more successful?

I would be interested to see if something like that could be used to move sabals with a higher success rate.

[Ben G.]

3 hours ago, JLM said:

If I remember correctly one of the issues with sabals is when the roots are cut they can’t just branch off from the broken areas, they have to regrow entirely from the palm. So honestly if you can do it without disturbing the roots at all it would have a good chance, but the problem is that the chance of not disturbing any roots is slim to none.
 

If you try it, good luck and keep us updated on its progress.

That's my big concern. It is close enough to the house and our soil is more rock than dirt that I am afraid there is no good way to move it without really hurting the roots. It won't grow enough before we sell the house to look good either though.

So I may go for it with the thought that it is better that I try (and probably fail) to move it, than to let the next owner tear it out because it looks really beat up.

[Ben G.]

3 hours ago, SeanK said:

Leave the Sabal where it is. Go order a couple of Butiagrus hybrids and Washie filiferss..

Whether I leave it or attempt to move it, I definitely want to get my hands on some butia and jubaea hybrids. 

If I could find them, I would love to get butiaxsyagrus, jubaeaxbutia, and jubaeaxsyagrus. 

[Las Palmas Norte]

I've had to leave prized palms from moves. If it was me facing your dilemma, I'd leave the Birmingham behind (which I did on my last move) to see it continue on.

Good luck on your decision and upcoming move.

Edited February 23 by Las Palmas Norte

[Leelanau Palms]

5 hours ago, Ben OK said:

Whether I leave it or attempt to move it, I definitely want to get my hands on some butia and jubaea hybrids. 

If I could find them, I would love to get butiaxsyagrus, jubaeaxbutia, and jubaeaxsyagrus. 

It will be great to see your new palms and yard in San Antonio, where I lived for 4 years. As your palm family, we are behind you whatever choice you make 👍😇 , but we do expect pictures down the road 🌴👀!

[Alex Zone 5]

Go for it, I've read that, to be successful, you must keep the above soil line trunk as humid as possible.

You could soak a towel and wrap it using bungee cords. 

But as others stated...dig as large as possible. It's gonna look rough for a season or two.

[Dwarf Fan]

Dig big as everyone says and put it under canopy in its new home so that it is getting filtered/dappled light for 3-6 months before putting it back into full sun.

I have successfully transplanted my same 2 Sabal Minors 3 different times.

I also dug a a few wild Sabal mexicana (small sized) and some died but some made it and I butchered their roots ripping them out of a rocky soil location so they didn’t even end up with a decent sized root ball so they took a long time to recover and come back but 2 of them still survived.

Dig a big root ball and keep them moist and put in a shaded location for a long recovery and Sabals can pull through it CAN be done.

[Harry’s Palms]

I’m of the “leave it alone” mindset. When I changed houses in 1997 , I left many palms behind and the new owner only kept the queens. I had a small Brahia Armata that had only been in the ground for about a year or so. I took great care to dig out as much of the root as I could ( I was amazed how much root a small palm had!) . I have successfully moved palms before but this one never recovered so I had to replace it anyway. Harry

[Chester B]

I just left about a hundred palms behind at my old house.  I had a real nice Birmingham, rosei and uresana that it killed me to leave them but I figured they'd die.  The only thing I dug up was a Trachycarpus princeps and it was small.  You can get another Birmingham and in a better climate they will grow much faster.  Again up to you if you think you can get all the roots out of that rocky soil.

[Dwarf Fan]

Both of these have been actively growing after being dug up.

Sabal minor 3rd transplant:


Wild dug S. Mexicana:

[Allen]

12 minutes ago, Dwarf Fan said:

Both of these have been actively growing after being dug up.

Sabal minor 3rd transplant:


Wild dug S. Mexicana:

But how long were they in the ground?

[Dwarf Fan]

1 hour ago, Allen said:

But how long were they in the ground?

Sabal minor was planted from a 1 gal nursery pot and in ground for almost 2 years.

Sabal Mexicana was a volunteer from seeds that sprouted in a ditch a few yards away from the Mama. I would guess it had been in the ground at least a few years judging by the size of the heel.

I have never attempted to dig a Sabal as large as the one in Ben’s picture but I believe with some care it could be successfully done.

[Dwarf Fan]

I can confirm Sabal and Washingtonia do NOT really like to be dug up and have their roots disturbed, I agree 100% they are definitely  “fussy” about it.

 

Chamaerops, Livistonia and Trachycarpus are not as delicate and can take more “root disturbance”. I like to dig and move my Palms I am a bit indecisive about Palm placement so it has taught me a thing or two.

[SeanK]

10 hours ago, Dwarf Fan said:

Both of these have been actively growing after being dug up.

Sabal minor 3rd transplant:


Wild dug S. Mexicana:

Each of those could have been purchased for $30. What was the point?

[JLM]

1 hour ago, SeanK said:

Each of those could have been purchased for $30. What was the point?

Me personally if I can dig up a young sabal and it survives, I call that a win. It’s something i would be proud of given that it is well known that young sabals have very low success rates with transplants. I would also imagine that spending a long time caring for a plant like this is much cheaper and much more meaningful than just going to a nursery and buying them there. (I have tried to rescue two sabals before, but was unsuccessful)
 

When I have a plant that I have rescued, it’s almost like I form a bond with it. It’s hard to explain but I’m sure you have felt this same thing before. Nursing plants back to health is fun and rewarding if you put in the time and patience. I imagine it’s a similar experience for @Dwarf Fan, and also, who doesn’t like a challenge in the plant world? 

[Dwarf Fan]

9 hours ago, SeanK said:

Each of those could have been purchased for $30. What was the point?

I hand selected and paid for the S. minor, I planted it and I was moving to a new home and took it with me so I could enjoy it at my new home and not leave it for the new renters to kill or run over with a lawn mower. It was also one of only 2 of may Palms that survived Palmageddon’21 when I lived in Central Texas and it taught me what “Cold Hardy” really means after being covered in snow for a week. It earned my respect and a place in my new garden.

7 hours ago, JLM said:

Me personally if I can dig up a young sabal and it survives, I call that a win. It’s something i would be proud of given that it is well known that young sabals have very low success rates with transplants. I would also imagine that spending a long time caring for a plant like this is much cheaper and much more meaningful than just going to a nursery and buying them there. (I have tried to rescue two sabals before, but was unsuccessful)
 

When I have a plant that I have rescued, it’s almost like I form a bond with it. It’s hard to explain but I’m sure you have felt this same thing before. Nursing plants back to health is fun and rewarding if you put in the time and patience. I imagine it’s a similar experience for @Dwarf Fan, and also, who doesn’t like a challenge in the plant world? 

^^^ This I have “rescued/nursed” a few ailing Palms back to health and tried (not always successfully) to harvest/save wild Palms that would of otherwise would have ended up being cut down just to see if it is possible to satisfy my own curiosity. This has also given me and insight on how tough and delicate certain species are and has deepened my understanding of care for each individual species.

When the Palms make it after a transplant it is also an incredibly rewarding feeling that surpasses just “saving $30 bucks” at a nursery.

[Alex Zone 5]

^^^ This I have “rescued/nursed” a few ailing Palms back to health and tried (not always successfully) to harvest/save wild Palms that would of otherwise would have ended up being cut down. 

We, here on Palm talk, are the minority who enjoys palms. Some folks down south, treat palms as a nuisance ( palmetto and saw palmetto ) 

So yeah I say give it a try....it survive, it's a win. Plus Birmingham that size...good luck finding one....

[PalmatierMeg]

The general rule I've followed is that transplanting a Sabal should not be attempted until the palm has 4-6'+ clear trunk, at which point the growing point should be above ground. Any shorter and you risk shattering the underground meristem, which is almost a certain death sentence. The Sabal in your photo is nowhere near trunking. If the person who buys your house is willing to host it in his yard until it matures, you may be able to collect seeds years down the road. Hopefully, you can convince him that its provenance is worth saving (also, that you can introduce him/her to palm lover paradise).

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

All who have posted have brought up good points to consider.  I will give you some tips "if" you decide to move the palm. Get a liquid root stimulator and give the palm a good drench now. If you are digging a big root ball it might be worth getting a "Drain Spade", if it will work in your rocky soil.  You can do a plunge cut down deeper with them than regular shovels  without actual digging away of soil. They are indispensable for digging plants in my soil.  We have no rocks so not sure if it is best for your soil. They are the long, narrow blade, rounded bottom cutting edge shovels with a sturdy shorter handle. Go ahead right now (if weather is expected to be spring like) and cut the roots on two opposite sides (lets say east side and then west side) cutting each of the two sides about 1/4 way around the palm root ball, the size you intend on cutting out, so that you leave 1/2 of the root ball uncut, intact, and in place. Mark the 4 ends of your cuts so you can find them later.  Give another stimulator drench right before you plan to leave and then cut the rest of the root ball and remove from ground.  Also you might try to cauterize the exposed roots with a hand torch after it is out of the ground with soil still on. Not sure if that is beneficial or not, for a Sabal, but I think they do that for needle palm or is it Serenoa roots (Can someone chime in here?).  I do not think it will hurt as long as soil is still on and you do not overheat the root ball and definitely not the trunk. At this point you need to decide whether you are going to wash all the soil off and re-pot or take it with the original soil. Immediately wrap the root ball and palm top too. Keep it out of sun.  The 1st early dig with a later 2nd finishing dig will do the least digging harm and allow the palm to start recovery on those cut roots with the support of the uncut roots. Not sure if you should leave all leaves on after the 1st dig but I would so the palm can draw resources from them. Remove all leaves, when you do that final dig, except the emerging spear and two or three of the two newest leaves. Cut those leaves back leaving only about half their original size on the petiole.  Also a local Sable palmetto seller I know goes to Florida and digs his own Sables for re-sale and swears that you should find due south and mark the trunk, before digging, so you can re-plant in it's new home with that side of the trunk facing south again.  Who knows if it has merit but it is the easiest part of the whole process to do and may make you fell better that you gave it your all.  Also the San Antonio area is HOT.  Shade it! Water a LOT if the soil drains well and use the root stimulator according to label directions. I dug I think 12 (don't want to go out to the greenhouse and count tonight) juvenile Sabal palmettos last spring about this time and did not use the compass direction planting and the 1st and second root digs or the cauterizing. I simply dug, put into a garbage bag and wet and the next day potted up and placed in the shade with the root drench.  By summers end all had grown by anywhere from a couple inches (spear) to pushing out a full leaves. Only one has barely grown the spear at all but has not deteriorated either. 

 

Edited February 25 by Jeff zone 8 N.C.

[SeanK]

On 2/22/2024 at 5:58 PM, Ben OK said:

7 years after building a home here in rural Northeast Oklahoma, a change at work has caused me to look for new work opportunities. I have secured a new job in the San Antonio Texas area, and we will likely be moving before the end of April.

Most of my in-ground palms are needles and some smaller sabal minors. Although I hate to see them go, I plan on leaving them all behind for whoever buys our home. 

The only in-ground palm that I am considering taking with me is my Sabal birmingham. I grew it from seed from the last batch of seed produced by the infamous birmingham that grew for 20 years in Tulsa before it died. I had a handful of the seeds given to me, but the palm had been dead for a year or two before I sowed them.  This was the only seed that sprouted from the bunch. So I hate to leave it behind, if I don't have to.

On the other hand, transplanting non-trunking sabals is supposed to be pretty tricky. So I will ask all of you here. Should I try to transplant this palm? Or should I let it have a shot at life with the next owner of the house?

 

Pause and ask yourself, "Would I buy a S.birminham to plant in my San Antonio garden?"

If you would, then weigh the risks. If you wouldn't, why bother?

[Ben G.]

8 hours ago, SeanK said:

Pause and ask yourself, "Would I buy a S.birminham to plant in my San Antonio garden?"

If you would, then weigh the risks. If you wouldn't, why bother?

That's a great way of looking at it. If I had lots of room in a San Antonio garden, I am sure I could find room for a Birmingham. There is no question though, that it isn't in the top five palms I would like to grow there. So with any space limitations, it probably wouldn't make the cut.

[Chester B]

2 hours ago, Ben OK said:

That's a great way of looking at it. If I had lots of room in a San Antonio garden, I am sure I could find room for a Birmingham. There is no question though, that it isn't in the top five palms I would like to grow there. So with any space limitations, it probably wouldn't make the cut.

There is always room!

What's your top five?

[Ben G.]

1 minute ago, Chester B said:

There is always room!

What's your top five?

My top five for the San Antonio area would all be palms I think have a reasonably good shot of lasting long term. 

In no particular order, I would say

Sabal mexicana

Any of the butia species

Chamaerops humilis (cerifera and green form)

Jubaea x butia

Jubae x syagrus

The first three may seem pretty ordinary to most of you who live in areas where they are common, but I look forward to growing those staples without watching them get set back by below 0F events every year. 

I will also likely try some Phoenix species, since I already have some small potted specimens. I just worry a little about the long term viability of dactylifera, and the eventual size of canariensis. 

Similarly, I have some potted washingtonia hybrids that would do great there. I do worry about having to prune them once they get tall though. I am handy with a chainsaw, but I don't love pruning anything sharp while I am high on a ladder.

 

[SeanK]

13 hours ago, Chester B said:

There is always room!

What's your top five?

I live in Atlanta and it doesn't make my top 5

[Chester B]

@Ben OK those should do well for you.  JxS is going to be a tough one to get, I'm kicking myself now for not buying one when I had the chance.  $100 for a seedling seemed a little too steep for me at the time.  

Might I add a sixth palm - Brahea armata.  

[N8ALLRIGHT]

Just food for thought. Aren't the alligator Alley seeds originally sourced from the Tulsa Birmingham? If so, it'd be pretty easy to buy one from Sabal king,the eBay guy or alligator Alley. They should all be pretty similar to your in ground plant and minus the digging and potential for death for your plant.

[Harry’s Palms]

On 2/23/2024 at 10:07 AM, Dwarf Fan said:

I can confirm Sabal and Washingtonia do NOT really like to be dug up and have their roots disturbed, I agree 100% they are definitely  “fussy” about it.

 

Chamaerops, Livistonia and Trachycarpus are not as delicate and can take more “root disturbance”. I like to dig and move my Palms I am a bit indecisive about Palm placement so it has taught me a thing or two.

Interesting . I have moved various palms and tree ferns before with success . As I said , the Brahea Armata was only in the ground for a year , I took great care , but it was an epic fail . My neighbor , actually a block away , dug up a volunteer Washingtonia from his yard and left it in my court yard in a bucket. It was about a 5 gallon size and the roots had been disturbed as he just wanted it gone . He left it at my house because he thought I would like it . I never expected it to survive but I stuck it in the ground at the bottom of my hill , just so he would think I appreciated the gesture . The darn thing grew like a rocket! This is it , in the center of the photo.

[Ben G.]

9 hours ago, N8ALLRIGHT said:

Just food for thought. Aren't the alligator Alley seeds originally sourced from the Tulsa Birmingham? If so, it'd be pretty easy to buy one from Sabal king,the eBay guy or alligator Alley. They should all be pretty similar to your in ground plant and minus the digging and potential for death for your plant.

I wasn't aware of the seed source for Alligator Alley's birminghams. The owner of the Tulsa birmingham was a very generous gardener, so I wouldn't be surprised if he gave seeds away to lots of people over the years.

I just know for sure of anyone else growing them, though it seems likely that someone else out there is keeping this lineage alive.

[Chester B]

2 hours ago, Harry’s Palms said:

Interesting . I have moved various palms and tree ferns before with success . As I said , the Brahea Armata was only in the ground for a year , I took great care , but it was an epic fail . My neighbor , actually a block away , dug up a volunteer Washingtonia from his yard and left it in my court yard in a bucket. It was about a 5 gallon size and the roots had been disturbed as he just wanted it gone . He left it at my house because he thought I would like it . I never expected it to survive but I stuck it in the ground at the bottom of my hill , just so he would think I appreciated the gesture . The darn thing grew like a rocket! This is it , in the center of the photo.

Some palms can be moved others can't  Its a case by case basis you can't lump them all in one category.  Brahea armata is defiinitely a no, Washingtonia is a yes as you have seen.  Among deciduous trees, some can be moved and others can't - same thing.