Tropical Garden Recommendations

[Carp589]

Hello, over the next few years I would like to take this open backyard grass lawn and turn it into a dense what would be essentially a rainforest.  have attached some photos below for inspiration. I live in Florida, zone A I believe on the east coast. I have also attached what my backyard consists of now. The patio will  be screened in and the middle area in the first photo will have a walkway that leads to a pergola. The only shade tree I currently have is a live oak, and the lemon and lime tree planted in the yard will be put in large pots. The yard is closed in essentially on one side by clusia and as well on the other. Trying to decide if I do more large shade trees or just stick to palms to build the canopy. As you can see I back up to a preserve, a real one fortunately for me.  I would like the back hill to be open but everything else within the backyard is free game. I am open to all suggestions as I am not an expert in any shape or form. 

Edited April 14 by Carp589
Misspelling

[FlaPalmLover]

Building something like that will surely require a lot of time, money, and energy. That's not to mention the back-breaking labor involved. Somehow the pictures we see on Google of places like this magically have no weeds poking through, and everything is organized and flows seamlessly, whereas in reality most of us would be fighting weeds constantly and struggling to achieve the same aesthetic pictures like these display without outsourcing the whole project to some expensive landscaping service that may have strategies and the man power to install things optimally. I have no idea how deep your pockets are, but getting the more exotic stuff is not cheap either. None of that is to try to dissuade you - I'm just giving my sense of the difficulty of these types of projects. There's a gentleman on here who is working on something like this, and it seems like a massive undertaking. 

[Carp589]

1 minute ago, FlaPalmLover said:

Building something like that will surely require a lot of time, money, and energy. That's not to mention the back-breaking labor involved. Somehow the pictures we see on Google of places like this magically have no weeds poking through, and everything is organized and flows seamlessly, whereas in reality most of us would be fighting weeds constantly and struggling to achieve the same aesthetic pictures like these display without outsourcing the whole project to some expensive landscaping service that may have strategies and the man power to install things optimally. I have no idea how deep your pockets are, but getting the more exotic stuff is not cheap either. None of that is to try to dissuade you - I'm just giving my sense of the difficulty of these types of projects. There's a gentleman on here who is working on something like this, and it seems like a massive undertaking. 

I appreciate it! Fortunately the money isn't the biggest issue but more-so the time and effort it's going to take. I agree about the upkeep it's going to require as well. I have gotten quotes so far and yeah we're talking $50,000+

[kinzyjr]

@Carp589 Welcome to PalmTalk! 

If you're close to the east coast of Florida from Daytona Beach down, you're likely in USDA Zone 10a.  That said, just about everywhere in Central Florida has gotten hit with some serious cold in the past.  Most places on the east coast from Daytona down to Vero Beach have gotten hit with temperatures in the teens and lower 20s, with the barrier islands from Melbourne to Vero sometimes staying in the mid-20s during serious freezes like the 1980s.  The freezes in 2010 are typically used as the gold standard going forward and a lot of places dropped into the mid-to-high 20s. 

You'll want to consider what your tolerance for risk is as far as losing plants to cold.

Another factor is disease.  Lethal Bronzing has been pretty bad, so anything that is susceptible to those diseases is probably a bad buy.  Typical palms that are affected are:

• most Phoenix species (especially Phoenix dactylifera, Phoenix canariensis, Phoenix sylvestris)
• Sabal palmetto (unfortunate, since it is a native)
• Syagrus romanzoffiana (the common queen palm)

Palms that handle the level of cold you handle in a typical year, but still give off a tropical vibe include:

• Roystonea regia: pretty hardy for a crownshaft palm and native
• Veitchia arecina: Fast-growing, skinny crownshaft palm and easily replaced after a loss
• Chambeyronia macrocarpa: Everyone loves the red color of a new frond.
• Chambeyronia oliviformis: Formerly known as Kentiopsis, these are gorgeous and remarkably chill tolerant.
• Satakentia liukiuensis: A gorgeous, deep green crownshaft palm.

Good luck on your quest!

[Carp589]

11 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

@Carp589 Welcome to PalmTalk! 

If you're close to the east coast of Florida from Daytona Beach down, you're likely in USDA Zone 10a.  That said, just about everywhere in Central Florida has gotten hit with some serious cold in the past.  Most places on the east coast from Daytona down to Vero Beach have gotten hit with temperatures in the teens and lower 20s, with the barrier islands from Melbourne to Vero sometimes staying in the mid-20s during serious freezes like the 1980s.  The freezes in 2010 are typically used as the gold standard going forward and a lot of places dropped into the mid-to-high 20s. 

You'll want to consider what your tolerance for risk is as far as losing plants to cold.

Another factor is disease.  Lethal Bronzing has been pretty bad, so anything that is susceptible to those diseases is probably a bad buy.  Typical palms that are affected are:

• most Phoenix species (especially Phoenix dactylifera, Phoenix canariensis, Phoenix sylvestris)
• Sabal palmetto (unfortunate, since it is a native)
• Syagrus romanzoffiana (the common queen palm)

Palms that handle the level of cold you handle in a typical year, but still give off a tropical vibe include:

• Roystonea regia: pretty hardy for a crownshaft palm and native
• Veitchia arecina: Fast-growing, skinny crownshaft palm and easily replaced after a loss
• Chambeyronia macrocarpa: Everyone loves the red color of a new frond.
• Chambeyronia oliviformis: Formerly known as Kentiopsis, these are gorgeous and remarkably chill tolerant.
• Satakentia liukiuensis: A gorgeous, deep green crownshaft palm.

Good luck on your quest!

Thanks for the advice! Yes I am in Vero so this is helpful, we've got a couple of king palms out front already. Probably looking to add a few more to the backyard as well. Front yard landscaping getting put in this next week and then of course the backyard will be completed over a few years. 

[kinzyjr]

50 minutes ago, Carp589 said:

Thanks for the advice! Yes I am in Vero so this is helpful, we've got a couple of king palms out front already. Probably looking to add a few more to the backyard as well. Front yard landscaping getting put in this next week and then of course the backyard will be completed over a few years. 

I'm in Lakeland, so not quite as forgiving a climate.  You might get a few ideas from my landscape though:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/52296-palms-and-others-of-interest/

You're welcome to attend any of the CFPACS Meetings.  Some of the properties we visit on the east coast might give you some ideas.  The last meeting we had on the east coast was around the Indian Harbour Beach area:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/76579-central-florida-palm-cycad-society-spring-meeting-sat-03252023/

[Carp589]

6 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

I'm in Lakeland, so not quite as forgiving a climate.  You might get a few ideas from my landscape though:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/52296-palms-and-others-of-interest/

You're welcome to attend any of the CFPACS Meetings.  Some of the properties we visit on the east coast might give you some ideas.  The last meeting we had on the east coast was around the Indian Harbour Beach area:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/76579-central-florida-palm-cycad-society-spring-meeting-sat-03252023/

Awesome, I appreciate it!

[rprimbs]

I would go for at least a few large scale palms to give you the "lush" tropical feel -- like Parajubea torallyi, and Becariophoenix alfredii.

[FlaPalmLover]

Check out this thread too.   @Jim in Los Altos seems to have achieved something similar to what you're aiming for. There's a guy on here who has posted animated gardens/yards showing different possibilities, too, but I don't recall his username. 

[Carp589]

4 minutes ago, FlaPalmLover said:

Check out this thread too.   @Jim in Los Altos seems to have achieved something similar to what you're aiming for. There's a guy on here who has posted animated gardens/yards showing different possibilities, too, but I don't recall his username. 

Awesome 

[RainforestCafe]

@Carp589 this is going to be a long response because I don't know how to make it short 😂 I was in your exact situation a few years ago. A blank Florida backyard and wanted the same look that you've shown in your pictures. I had no idea how to go about it, but after a lot of trial and error, here's what I learned...

One of the biggest things I did to get at least somewhat close to that look in your pictures was to really break down the pictures and see what was going on on a very basic level. I also went to botanical gardens, found areas that I liked, and then really examined their spacing distance between plants, etc. because it's generally either closer or further than you actually thought. And I would see how they layered things. Layering is key!! 

Also think about textures. I basically think about it like:

1. Fan palms

2. Feather palms

3. Big leaves (white bird of paradise, bananas, etc)

4. Bushes

5. Bamboo (clumping, non-invasive. Not running bamboo 😂)

And then I mix and match those as much as I can, because otherwise things blend together.

Another key is using "big plants" like sabals, foxtails, areca palms, bamboo, white bird of paradise, etc. and then mixing little stuff in around them. Too many little things doesn't look good. And the big plants is what really makes it look good and gives it that wow factor, and then the little things give it the full, finished look.

You can see it in one of the pictures you posted. There's a few big plants spaced out (I marked them as 1,2,3) and then a bunch of little stuff between them. You can also see that 1 is a fan palm, 2 is big leaves, 3 is a feather palm clump (at least that what it looks like). So they mixed the 3 textures.

Here's a picture from my own garden, I can't really take too much credit for this as I just examined other people's gardens and stole their best ideas 😂:

I mixed fan leaves (thatch palm) down low, coonties also low, then a big feather palm (king palm) with a white bird of paradise (big leaves). 

Then here's what I did in the backyard. This is only about 4-5 years of growth too from a blank slate...

I just picked a few big things.. bamboo, hurricane palm, king palm, and then sprinkled in some bushes, saw palmetto, and a thatch palm around them. In your growing zone, you could accomplish this fairly easily and get the look you're going after. I'd say you pick some big things and space them out informally down that fence, things like an areca palm, king palm, sabal, white bird of paradise, etc. and then pick some bushes and such, and just mix them in there. 

Good luck, I'm excited to see how it comes together!!

[Carp589]

3 minutes ago, RainforestCafe said:

@Carp589 this is going to be a long response because I don't know how to make it short 😂 I was in your exact situation a few years ago. A blank Florida backyard and wanted the same look that you've shown in your pictures. I had no idea how to go about it, but after a lot of trial and error, here's what I learned...

One of the biggest things I did to get at least somewhat close to that look in your pictures was to really break down the pictures and see what was going on on a very basic level. I also went to botanical gardens, found areas that I liked, and then really examined their spacing distance between plants, etc. because it's generally either closer or further than you actually thought. And I would see how they layered things. Layering is key!! 

Also think about textures. I basically think about it like:

1. Fan palms

2. Feather palms

3. Big leaves (white bird of paradise, bananas, etc)

4. Bushes

5. Bamboo (clumping, non-invasive. Not running bamboo 😂)

And then I mix and match those as much as I can, because otherwise things blend together.

Another key is using "big plants" like sabals, foxtails, areca palms, bamboo, white bird of paradise, etc. and then mixing little stuff in around them. Too many little things doesn't look good. And the big plants is what really makes it look good and gives it that wow factor, and then the little things give it the full, finished look.

You can see it in one of the pictures you posted. There's a few big plants spaced out (I marked them as 1,2,3) and then a bunch of little stuff between them. You can also see that 1 is a fan palm, 2 is big leaves, 3 is a feather palm clump (at least that what it looks like). So they mixed the 3 textures.

Here's a picture from my own garden, I can't really take too much credit for this as I just examined other people's gardens and stole their best ideas 😂:

I mixed fan leaves (thatch palm) down low, coonties also low, then a big feather palm (king palm) with a white bird of paradise (big leaves). 

Then here's what I did in the backyard. This is only about 4-5 years of growth too from a blank slate...

I just picked a few big things.. bamboo, hurricane palm, king palm, and then sprinkled in some bushes, saw palmetto, and a thatch palm around them. In your growing zone, you could accomplish this fairly easily and get the look you're going after. I'd say you pick some big things and space them out informally down that fence, things like an areca palm, king palm, sabal, white bird of paradise, etc. and then pick some bushes and such, and just mix them in there. 

Good luck, I'm excited to see how it comes together!!

Awesome! Yeah the layering part is the part I’m trying to wrap my head around. I’ve gone to as many botanical gardens as I can and taken hundreds of pictures at this point lol. I’ll be sure to update as time goes on, soon as the pergola and walkways get put in I’ll be going full steam ahead. We went to Selby Gardens probably 5-6 times last year even though it’s 3 hours away lol. 

[RainforestCafe]

31 minutes ago, Carp589 said:

We went to Selby Gardens probably 5-6 times last year even though it’s 3 hours away lol. 

Nice! I live pretty close to Selby so we go there all the time. You can never go to Selby too many times 😂 

Their layering is extremely good. Especially in that area with the Koi pond. 

[Chester B]

I've been watching this channel on YouTube, and I think she does a nice job with the designs for her clients.  Her backyard has the dense look you're trying to achieve.  You might want to watch a few of her videos.  

https://www.youtube.com/@stylewithlivingart

 

[Carp589]

35 minutes ago, Chester B said:

I've been watching this channel on YouTube, and I think she does a nice job with the designs for her clients.  Her backyard has the dense look you're trying to achieve.  You might want to watch a few of her videos.  

https://www.youtube.com/@stylewithlivingart

 

Funny enough she’s actually the one currently working on a quote for our front yard lol haven’t asked her about the backyard yet 

[Merlyn]

@FlaPalmLover I don't have weeds in my yard.  I cultivate a wide variety of hardy domestic and imported annuals and perennials! 

@Carp589 if you are doing it all yourself, you could easily expect $20k in plants and landscaping materials.  And that's planting mostly smaller 3G to 7G palms and letting them grow into the space.  Filling it with full sized plants for an "instant jungle" is definitely pricey!  Vero Beach is definitely a lot warmer than my area, so you have a lot more options.  As @kinzyjr said, I would avoid Phoenix, Queens, and Sabals due to Lethal Bronzing.  Personally I'd avoid Royals too, but that's because they have a habit of dropping 50lb 20ft long fronds and crushing anything underneath.  Most palms drop fronds when they are dry and dessicated...not Royals!

A couple of suggestions:

• Bordelon banana makes a great looking addition, with deep green tops and purple undersides on the leaves.  They are also thin stemmed, so easy to prune back and remove trunks later.  I'd avoid big bananas due to the rapid growth rate and difficulty in maintenance.  Zebrina Rojo, Siam Ruby, and Margarita are also neat smaller bananas with a unique splash of color.
• Carludovica Palmata – Panama Hat Palm - not a palm but I think it would grow for you there
• Beccariophoenix Alfredii - great "coconut on steroids" palm, but they are not really hurricane-proof.  I think you could grow cocos there, so that might be a better choice.
• Kerriodoxa Elegans - great understory palm and totally cold hardy in Vero
• Licuala Peltata v. Sumawongii - likewise awesome understory palm.  Licuala Grandis is another good choice for Vero, as are most other Licuala species for understory locations.
• Dypsis/Chrysalidocarpus Onilahensis "weepy form" is really neat...if you like the weeping leaflets look. 
• Rhapis Excelsa variegated - works in sun or shade and has some nice random splotches of color
• Arenga Undulatifolia - a beast of a plant, but might do ok in Vero
• Allagoptera Arenaria - a really neat curly-leaved "shrublike" palm
• Thrinax/Coccothrinax - any would do well and have a real tropical Key West feel
• Attalea Cohune - tall, skinny, and really imposing!
• Arenga Pinnata - likewise, but curly-ish leaves when mature

Here's my build thread from start to...er...not yet finished! 

 

[PalmatierMeg]

$50,000? Do you plan to do any work yourself? I got the greatest satisfaction creating gardens on our 0.61 ac. 5-lot site myself after I joined PalmTalk in 2008. I sought/bought the palms/plants, installed them then watched them turn my property into a jungle over the course of many years. My palm paradise has been torn to pieces by 3 major hurricanes: Charley, Irma & Ian (ok, 3-1/2 if you count Wilma). We replanted and regrew each time. Did we spend $50K on our palm paradise over the course of those years? Maybe. Maybe not. I had a blast doing it and won't be relegated to the sidelines by some toney landscaper who can't fathom the difference between a coconut palm and a sycamore. I learned so much more by doing it myself. There's no need to rush, rush to the finish in 6 months. I cherry picked a few photos of our Back Yard Jungle from 2008 to 2023 (post Ian)

Back Yard Jungle at the beginning, Cape Coral, FL, ca. 2008

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL  2009

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL  2012

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL  2015

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL 2016

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL  2017 (post-Irma)

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL   2019

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL 2022 (post-Ian)

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL 2023 (8 months post-Ian)

 

[Carp589]

2 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@FlaPalmLover I don't have weeds in my yard.  I cultivate a wide variety of hardy domestic and imported annuals and perennials! 

@Carp589 if you are doing it all yourself, you could easily expect $20k in plants and landscaping materials.  And that's planting mostly smaller 3G to 7G palms and letting them grow into the space.  Filling it with full sized plants for an "instant jungle" is definitely pricey!  Vero Beach is definitely a lot warmer than my area, so you have a lot more options.  As @kinzyjr said, I would avoid Phoenix, Queens, and Sabals due to Lethal Bronzing.  Personally I'd avoid Royals too, but that's because they have a habit of dropping 50lb 20ft long fronds and crushing anything underneath.  Most palms drop fronds when they are dry and dessicated...not Royals!

A couple of suggestions:

• Bordelon banana makes a great looking addition, with deep green tops and purple undersides on the leaves.  They are also thin stemmed, so easy to prune back and remove trunks later.  I'd avoid big bananas due to the rapid growth rate and difficulty in maintenance.  Zebrina Rojo, Siam Ruby, and Margarita are also neat smaller bananas with a unique splash of color.
• Carludovica Palmata – Panama Hat Palm - not a palm but I think it would grow for you there
• Beccariophoenix Alfredii - great "coconut on steroids" palm, but they are not really hurricane-proof.  I think you could grow cocos there, so that might be a better choice.
• Kerriodoxa Elegans - great understory palm and totally cold hardy in Vero
• Licuala Peltata v. Sumawongii - likewise awesome understory palm.  Licuala Grandis is another good choice for Vero, as are most other Licuala species for understory locations.
• Dypsis/Chrysalidocarpus Onilahensis "weepy form" is really neat...if you like the weeping leaflets look. 
• Rhapis Excelsa variegated - works in sun or shade and has some nice random splotches of color
• Arenga Undulatifolia - a beast of a plant, but might do ok in Vero
• Allagoptera Arenaria - a really neat curly-leaved "shrublike" palm
• Thrinax/Coccothrinax - any would do well and have a real tropical Key West feel
• Attalea Cohune - tall, skinny, and really imposing!
• Arenga Pinnata - likewise, but curly-ish leaves when mature

Here's my build thread from start to...er...not yet finished! 

 

Thanks for the reply! Great progress so far. 

[Carp589]

5 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

$50,000? Do you plan to do any work yourself? I got the greatest satisfaction creating gardens on our 0.61 ac. 5-lot site myself after I joined PalmTalk in 2008. I sought/bought the palms/plants, installed them then watched them turn my property into a jungle over the course of many years. My palm paradise has been torn to pieces by 3 major hurricanes: Charley, Irma & Ian (ok, 3-1/2 if you count Wilma). We replanted and regrew each time. Did we spend $50K on our palm paradise over the course of those years? Maybe. Maybe not. I had a blast doing it and won't be relegated to the sidelines by some toney landscaper who can't fathom the difference between a coconut palm and a sycamore. I learned so much more by doing it myself. There's no need to rush, rush to the finish in 6 months. I cherry picked a few photos of our Back Yard Jungle from 2008 to 2023 (post Ian)

Back Yard Jungle at the beginning, Cape Coral, FL, ca. 2008

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL  2009

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL  2012

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL  2015

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL 2016

 

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL  2017 (post-Irma)

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL   2019

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL 2022 (post-Ian)

Back Yard Jungle, Cape Coral, FL 2023 (8 months post-Ian)

 

Wow yeah hurricanes are also something to be weary of as well. That $50,000 quote was from a big landscape architect (big for Vero). So basically going from 0-1000 in a few weeks time. I would much rather do it myself to be honest, and definitely feel I can do it myself. 

[PalmatierMeg]

6 minutes ago, Carp589 said:

Wow yeah hurricanes are also something to be weary of as well. That $50,000 quote was from a big landscape architect (big for Vero). So basically going from 0-1000 in a few weeks time. I would much rather do it myself to be honest, and definitely feel I can do it myself. 

If my husband and I could do it multiple times I'm sure you can. We're as old as time. I get most encouragement out of the process as opposed to the end result. I couldn't stand around and accept gushing praise for something I had no part in beyond throwing money at some wealthy Poobah who hires immigrant labor to create my dream garden for $7.25 per hour, the minimum wage in FL.