Looking for Archontophoenix Alexandrae, Archonphoenix Cunninghamiana, and Archontophoenix purpurea in the Orlando area.

[AaronW]

Hey Everyone. 

Why are these three specimens so hard to find around Orange and Lake County Florida. 

I am hunting for a few larger 8-12' double or triple Archontophoenix Alexandrae,  Archonphoenix Cunninghamiana and so far in all my hunting the only thing I have found so far was one single Archontophoenix Alexandrae and that was at Traveling Trees Garden Center in Clermont and it was only about 4' tall. 

I would also love to find a 4-6' Archontophoenix purpurea.  

I reached out to MB Palms today via email,  but reading here that he really doesn't like to work with the public, and I just missed his open house this weekend as I was out of town until late Sunday night.

I also called and talked to Lafleur Nurseries and they do not carry any of these three types of palms. 

Does anyone have any ideas on where in Orange or Lake County would carry these three types of palms?  

 

[Merlyn]

@AaronW the MB open house would have been ideal, he had several bigger ones of different types.  The reason you don't find them around here is that Archontophoenix are not really zone 9B palms.  They can take serious damage below 30F (especially with frost), and frequently die around 25F.  If you see mid 20s every winter in Montverde they might survive, but they'll defoliate and look ugly for half the year.  If you have oak canopy or are in a "favorable microclimate" like being on the SW side of a lake, then it might work for you.  But if you are looking for "centerpiece" type palms that will be out in exposed grass I don't think any Archontophoenix will do that for you.  Personally, I'd pick something else like a Beccariophoenix Alfredii, a Butia/Pindo, or a Mule.  Those are reliably hardy to the mid 20s and should look good after a 25F frost.

That being said, I have one Alexandrae, 5 Cunninghamiana, 3 Maxima, and 2 Tuckeri in the ground here in the Sanford area...and just bought a Purpurea from MB Palms at the Leu Gardens spring plant sale.  They survived a couple of freezes + frosts at about 27-28F, but they had overhead canopy from nearby palms, oaks, etc.  This winter didn't have a freeze and only one light frost, so mine look great now. 

As far as nurseries go, the only place I've ever seen them in the Orlando area is Uncle Jutty's nursery in Kissimmee.  You could try calling Green's Nursery in Apopka too, they get shipments from SFL and might order one for you.

[AaronW]

@Merlyn That is all great info,  Montverde is just north of Clermont on the West side of Orlando, but I am very close to Lake Apopka on the west side, and have 3 other lakes that are around me of various size right here in Montverde. 

4 times in the last 30yrs the lowest temperature here hit 26F briefly, and 13 yrs out of 30 there have been at least one day between 26F-32F. The other 17yrs we have never even hit the freezing point. These temps are from Clermont, which is about 8miles south of me and farther away from the large body of water of Lake Apopka so I think the risks are pretty low (though you never know). 

This year we didnt even see a frost, lowest got down to 33 on night, while it did frost up in Sanford that night. 

I also have 8 large live oaks on my property, that while these palms would not be directly under them they would be given some shade by the oaks, and also some wind protection from the oak canopy. 

I will check out Uncle Juttys and Greens Nursery if I don't get a positive response from MB Palms.  

[AaronW]

Its also funny that they sell Christmas Palms (Adonidia Merrillii)like crazy everywhere around Orlando, yet these are Damaged at 32F, and Killed at 26F, while it is said that the King Palms like Alexandrae, Cunninghamiana say they a can withstand temperatures down to 26° F.

[FlaPalmLover]

You may have to travel down to South Florida to find any that big. It sounds like you're wanting some that already have some trunk? For what it's worth, I think there has been some suggestion that these may do better when they are allowed to grow in one place from a smaller size, so it might be worth the wait with a smaller one.

[AaronW]

4 minutes ago, FlaPalmLover said:

You may have to travel down to South Florida to find any that big. It sounds like you're wanting some that already have some trunk? For what it's worth, I think there has been some suggestion that these may do better when they are allowed to grow in one place from a smaller size, so it might be worth the wait with a smaller one.

Part of the size I am looking for is about placement location, they will be along a 6' fence at one side of my property, so when planted I wanted to go with a size that put most of the fronds already above the fence line.  so they wont be limited in fanning out by the wall of the fence.

It might be better to say what look we are looking for, vs a specific type maybe someone has better suggestions of more available specimen.

What were looking for is a Smooth Trunk, Self Cleaning, Feather type palm, that we can get in the 8-12' size in double or triples, that look full and the tips are not all ragged. We already looked at many Foxtail and they all have very ratty tips, the Christmas Palms are close but the frond structure is not quite as sturdy as the Kings and they also have a little bit of a ratty chewed on look at the tips.

[EPaul]

@AaronW I can't offer an opinion on your local climate and whether Kings would be a good fit, but I agree that Archontophoenix spp should definitely be much more available to the central Florida market. Much more! If big box stores and nurseries find it appropriate to offer loads of Foxtail, Christmas, Bottle, Spindle, Butterfly, and even Coconut palms then I'm not sure what would be the reason to exclude Kings. I did see some large Archontophoenix sp. (can't remember which one) at Lukas Nursery in Oviedo late last year.

[AaronW]

1 hour ago, EPaul said:

@AaronW I can't offer an opinion on your local climate and whether Kings would be a good fit, but I agree that Archontophoenix spp should definitely be much more available to the central Florida market. Much more! If big box stores and nurseries find it appropriate to offer loads of Foxtail, Christmas, Bottle, Spindle, Butterfly, and even Coconut palms then I'm not sure what would be the reason to exclude Kings. I did see some large Archontophoenix sp. (can't remember which one) at Lukas Nursery in Oviedo late last year.

Totally agree, many of these other varieties are as cold tolerant or even less so than most of the Archontophoenix types, yet they are available everywhere. Must be another reason no one carries them. 
 

Was planning on hitting up Lukas next weekend, so good to hear they have some types of Archontphoenix, though Lukas is always on the higher priced side for anything so will be interesting to see just how much $$ they are. 

[TampaBayRay]

17 hours ago, AaronW said:

Hey Everyone. 

Why are these three specimens so hard to find around Orange and Lake County Florida. 

I am hunting for a few larger 8-12' double or triple Archontophoenix Alexandrae,  Archonphoenix Cunninghamiana and so far in all my hunting the only thing I have found so far was one single Archontophoenix Alexandrae and that was at Traveling Trees Garden Center in Clermont and it was only about 4' tall. 

I would also love to find a 4-6' Archontophoenix purpurea.  

I reached out to MB Palms today via email,  but reading here that he really doesn't like to work with the public, and I just missed his open house this weekend as I was out of town until late Sunday night.

I also called and talked to Lafleur Nurseries and they do not carry any of these three types of palms. 

Does anyone have any ideas on where in Orange or Lake County would carry these three types of palms?  

 

Theres a guy on facebook marketplace thats got some larger 25gal kings w wood over in clearwater which is still a heckuva ride but prolly closer than s fla

[EPaul]

8 hours ago, AaronW said:

Totally agree, many of these other varieties are as cold tolerant or even less so than most of the Archontophoenix types, yet they are available everywhere. Must be another reason no one carries them. 
 

Was planning on hitting up Lukas next weekend, so good to hear they have some types of Archontphoenix, though Lukas is always on the higher priced side for anything so will be interesting to see just how much $$ they are. 

Lukas is definitely on the pricier side for most plants. I believe the Kings they carried were either cunninghamiana or alexandrae. If you're willing to plant smaller ones (1 - 3 gallon), there are PT members that sell in the area.

[Fishinsteeg234]

@AaronW I am currently selling A. cunninghamiana, alexandrae, maxima, and tuckeri in 1gal and 3gal sizes. I live in Longwood, a few mins north of Orlando, still zone 9b.  I have a few multiples of alexandrea, or you can group several smaller 1g together to get the group planting you’re looking for. The 1gallons will be 3gallon size by this fall, they grow fast.  Archontophoenix are best planted small to get the roots established (1-2years) early before trunking size for the best growth start in florida, IMO. Send me a PM if you’re interested. I firmly believe Archontophoenix should be planted way more in central Florida, especially under large tree canopy gardens. Send me a PM if you’re interested. 

[Merlyn]

17 hours ago, AaronW said:

Part of the size I am looking for is about placement location, they will be along a 6' fence at one side of my property, so when planted I wanted to go with a size that put most of the fronds already above the fence line.  so they wont be limited in fanning out by the wall of the fence.

It might be better to say what look we are looking for, vs a specific type maybe someone has better suggestions of more available specimen.

What were looking for is a Smooth Trunk, Self Cleaning, Feather type palm, that we can get in the 8-12' size in double or triples, that look full and the tips are not all ragged. We already looked at many Foxtail and they all have very ratty tips, the Christmas Palms are close but the frond structure is not quite as sturdy as the Kings and they also have a little bit of a ratty chewed on look at the tips.

Yeah, it's weird that they will sell Bottles and Christmas palms, but not any Kings.  In my experience those two are barely 30-32F also, and probably even less hardy.  I still have ~12 Bottles/Spindles in the yard, but have lost all the ones that weren't up near the house.  I was losing 2 or 3 every winter.  I since switched to Gaussia Princeps and Cyphophoenix (Alba, Elegans, Nucele) for the Bottle/Spindle look. 

It sounds like your temperatures are similar to mine.  I get 1 or 2 nights per year under freezing, and usually about 28F minimum.  It usually has frost with it.  But a couple of years ago it hit 24.6F in the backyard, and Christmas 2022 was freezes 3 nights in a row with a total of 20 hours under 32F.  The different Archontophoenix were all in the ground that freeze, and did just fine with canopy.  Here's an example of what I mean...the 2' tall palm in the bottom left is an Alexandrae hiding under the leaves of a Dwarf Cavendish banana.  The banana was torched, the Alexandrae was fine.  A few feet away the Ficus Lyrata and Dypsis/Chrysalidocarpus Onilahensis "weepy form" both were torched.

The Alexandrae in the lower left is now about 5 feet tall.  If your temps are about the same as mine, Archontophoenix is worth a shot.  Just know that if it does get into the 20s the leaves will burn and they may look crappy for a few months each spring.  For alternatives with a smooth, self-cleaning trunk and non-ratty leaf ends, that does rule out a lot of hardy options.  The only ones that come to mind are probably harder to get, like "Coco Queen" Syagrus Schizophylla x Romanzoffiana.  The Dypsis/Chrysalidocarpus Lanceolata, Lastelliana, Leptocheilos and Pembana are all similar in hardiness to Archontophoenix and probably less available.  

[Lynne M]

I have 2 sets of double King Alexandrae which were planted last August by a landscaper here in SWFL zone 10a. I believe they came from a broker in Miami. I agree they should be more prevalent than the Foxtails and Adonidas, but am also aware that they have a tendency not to transplant well. Mine had some serious stress especially with the severe drought we had on the gulf coast here between Venice and Sarasota. I got crazy lucky and found a 7 gallon King Alex at Venice Lowe’s for $30 this spring. I saw one at Sarasota Lowe’s also… didn’t buy it and it was gone when I went back. Haven’t seen one since, but I’m watching. They were labeled from Costa Farms. 

[SeanK]

On 4/15/2024 at 12:51 PM, Merlyn said:

@AaronW the MB open house would have been ideal, he had several bigger ones of different types.  The reason you don't find them around here is that Archontophoenix are not really zone 9B palms.  They can take serious damage below 30F (especially with frost), and frequently die around 25F.  If you see mid 20s every winter in Montverde they might survive, but they'll defoliate and look ugly for half the year.  If you have oak canopy or are in a "favorable microclimate" like being on the SW side of a lake, then it might work for you.  But if you are looking for "centerpiece" type palms that will be out in exposed grass I don't think any Archontophoenix will do that for you.  Personally, I'd pick something else like a Beccariophoenix Alfredii, a Butia/Pindo, or a Mule.  Those are reliably hardy to the mid 20s and should look good after a 25F frost.

That being said, I have one Alexandrae, 5 Cunninghamiana, 3 Maxima, and 2 Tuckeri in the ground here in the Sanford area...and just bought a Purpurea from MB Palms at the Leu Gardens spring plant sale.  They survived a couple of freezes + frosts at about 27-28F, but they had overhead canopy from nearby palms, oaks, etc.  This winter didn't have a freeze and only one light frost, so mine look great now. 

As far as nurseries go, the only place I've ever seen them in the Orlando area is Uncle Jutty's nursery in Kissimmee.  You could try calling Green's Nursery in Apopka too, they get shipments from SFL and might order one for you.

Ditto. Crownshaft palms are z10 and warmer. They'll be a challenge long-term along the I4 corridor. Don't know why places would carry Hyophorbes but not these, though. Grab the Tpke and run down to Homestead.

[Satakentian]

I have 9 - 1 gal, purpurea's and live in southwest Orlando. Send me a message if you're still looking for them.  If you want something larger, Robert in Crystal River has a few larger ones http://rarepalm.com/ I think he was selling them for $90 each as 3gal's. 

Beautiful palm and hard to find!