South Florida Cyrtostachys renda specimen update

[bubba]

I got more information from the nursery man, who planted this palm in November 2019. I inquired about the use of various fungicide's recommended by connoisseur, Steve Stern. None of these has been used on this specimen. That stated, it would probably help substantially if they were used.

During this time frame, the minimum temperature recorded at PBIA was 37°F.  Low 40°F (43F) temperatures nearly every year at the airport during this time frame. At all times, the median temperature well exceeded the necessary Koeppen temperature required for tropical rendering. In fact, most months median temperatures were closer to 70°F than the required 64.8°F.

This palm is located at latitude, 26.93° north. It is in an area surrounded by water not far from the ocean. However, I would not describe it as "flourishing". It reminds me of the Newport Beach Coconut. The browning tips of the Palm are evident. This is definitely a very ticklish palm that requires close attention for success in southeast Florida.

 

 

 

 

 

[bubba]

This is a specific update on the status of the pictured Cyrtostachys renda above together with updates on several other specimens located not long ago. We are experiencing some rain bands from TS Oscar, which means heavy downpours followed by waves of sunshine. Will be interesting to see how these specimens flourish or devolve over cool/dry season. This wet season has been incredibly Borneoest. Not sure we have dropped below 70F. We can always hope...

[bubba]

[bubba]

[bubba]

[bubba]

Sorry/double entendres 

[bubba]

[bubba]

[bubba]

[bubba]

[Jonathan]

Looking good. Funny to think of zone pushing in south Florida, seems like a contradiction of terms.

[Barry]

I decided to plant one of mine in the ground, possibly death sentence! But it took a bit of beating last winter, probably didn’t bring it in as much as I should have. We were wet and cool, not cold. But it is on the south side of house, away from north winds. I will protect it when/if it gets cold this winter. We will see how it does? I have two more large ones, almost too big to bring in garage. Plus 6 or 7 more rooted plants, so I have backups.

 

[miamicuse]

How soon will it show any sign of red color stems?  Mine is still a 3 gallon 24" tall baby.

[mnorell]

While one I suppose never knows, due to such a variety of influences, whether one will stumble on a success or not in a given situation, my own observations of this species in FL are that they will not thrive, and probably not survive Florida's worst cold-jabs, if not planted as an aquatic or semi-aquatic palm. As in nature, they want their feet in nice warm water. The best specimens I've seen have been planted in ponds, although in the Keys where it is warm enough for this species it does fine on dry ground. I had a very nice specimen growing on Big Pine Key for several years before Irma's saltwater inundation blackened it...and it was planted high on a mound and looked good, but grew very slowly. It only suffered four hours below 50F (to a low of 48F) in those years so it wasn't exactly given a stress-test! But as one moves northward I think it's especially helpful to give a heated body of water around the rootball, as I suspect that in cold-spells the roots are the point of failure, rather than the tops. I don't have any empirical evidence on that, but my casual observations of thriving individuals in water and knowing that the roots are typically the most tender part of a palm, makes me think it's the only real hope once you get up and on to the peninsula.

[bubba]

I agree with your assessment Michael. The first specimen was planted in 2019 during which PBIA recorded a low of 37 F during this five (5) year time frame. The location of the first specimen is close to the intracoastal, but does not have its feet in the water. It likely has never experienced temperatures lower than 40 F.

The other specimens (approximately five (5)), I recently located and do not know their history. Jeff Searle had great knowledge regarding a hybrid, which was much more cold tolerant. I do not know if any of these specimens are hybrids but I am doubtful. The hybrids had substantially less vivid coloration (red). 
 

All of these specimens have experienced annual temperatures below 50F each winter with low temperatures in the 40F degree range. Either this species can tolerate temperatures under 50F better than previously reported or we are living on borrowed time. We have had a long stretch of time since any real cold incursion (1989?). It will be interesting to see how this species handles that kind of event and likely will not fare well!

 

[SeanK]

17 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Looking good. Funny to think of zone pushing in south Florida, seems like a contradiction of terms.

Yeah, but contrary to Köppen, Miami isn't really tropical. It's rare for low-altitude tropics to drop below 15°C. Even in a tropical cloud forest, temps rarely drop below 10°C.

The Cyrtostachis is good evidence of this.

[mnorell]

7 hours ago, bubba said:

I agree with your assessment Michael. The first specimen was planted in 2019 during which PBIA recorded a low of 37 F during this five (5) year time frame. The location of the first specimen is close to the intracoastal, but does not have its feet in the water. It likely has never experienced temperatures lower than 40 F.

The other specimens (approximately five (5)), I recently located and do not know their history. Jeff Searle had great knowledge regarding a hybrid, which was much more cold tolerant. I do not know if any of these specimens are hybrids but I am doubtful. The hybrids had substantially less vivid coloration (red). 
 

All of these specimens have experienced annual temperatures below 50F each winter with low temperatures in the 40F degree range. Either this species can tolerate temperatures under 50F better than previously reported or we are living on borrowed time. We have had a long stretch of time since any real cold incursion (1989?). It will be interesting to see how this species handles that kind of event and likely will not fare well!

 

Keith, the hybrid is a fantastic palm and much more cold-hardy by most reports, including Jeff Searle's direct experiences...he not only grew many of these for sale but has at least one on his property I believe. I bought one of these from him and it was planted in our driveway not more than 20 feet from my nice C. renda that died in Irma. The hybrid, which grew at a far faster pace than C. renda, and though quite damaged in the hurricane and saltwater inundation, actually held on for about a year before finally giving up the ghost. I think I could have saved it if I had flushed it with more fresh water. That hybrid is I believe a hybrid between C. renda and either C. elegans or C. glauca. There are multiple threads here on PalmTalk discussing those hybrids.

If I remember correctly Jeff Searle may have acquired his stock from Thailand, and Jeff Marcus also sold small plants for a while, and I think that he told me at least some of those came from a specimen at the late Pauleen Sullivan's former property in the Puna district (Hawai'i Island), where the hybridization was either intentionally or unintentionally performed from a neighboring plant(s). Sadly that spectacular garden was buried under several stories of lava in the 2018 eruptions, so that, I expect, is at least part of the reason the hybrid seems to have disappeared from the trade. I'm not sure if either Jeff Searle or Jeff Marcus are propagating more via division from their own plants, but I wish they or someone else would, since it would really expand the usefulness of this incredibly ornamental genus in Florida (also perhaps in the warmest parts of California). I also wish people would try some of the other species in the genus more often...even though they don't have the showy colors, they are beautiful, elegant palms and I think worth trialing for cool- and/or cold-hardiness. Jeff Marcus does occasionally sell seedlings or small plants of these "green" species.

[Looking Glass]

 

[bubba]

That is amazing and sounds like a winner. I know Jeff sold his property. Is the hybrid still being pursued and promulgated?

[hbernstein]

On 10/23/2024 at 2:34 AM, mnorell said:

While one I suppose never knows, due to such a variety of influences, whether one will stumble on a success or not in a given situation, my own observations of this species in FL are that they will not thrive, and probably not survive Florida's worst cold-jabs, if not planted as an aquatic or semi-aquatic palm. As in nature, they want their feet in nice warm water. The best specimens I've seen have been planted in ponds, although in the Keys where it is warm enough for this species it does fine on dry ground. I had a very nice specimen growing on Big Pine Key for several years before Irma's saltwater inundation blackened it...and it was planted high on a mound and looked good, but grew very slowly. It only suffered four hours below 50F (to a low of 48F) in those years so it wasn't exactly given a stress-test! But as one moves northward I think it's especially helpful to give a heated body of water around the rootball, as I suspect that in cold-spells the roots are the point of failure, rather than the tops. I don't have any empirical evidence on that, but my casual observations of thriving individuals in water and knowing that the roots are typically the most tender part of a palm, makes me think it's the only real hope once you get up and on to the peninsula.

If given the right environment, it's possible to grow happy C renda in South Florida. This one is at Pinecrest Gardens: