Overwatered Phoenix Canariensis?

[Feng]

Hi palm people,

I just planted this Phoenix Canariensis in the ground about 2 weeks ago and I have been giving it a LOT of water. I’ve noticed that the leaves are becoming misaligned. Is this because the excess water is causing the frond to become engorged and is this healthy?

thanks

 

 

 

 

[SeanK]

I'd say it falls within a standard deviation of average. It makes me chuckle when guys palms aren't "picture perfect" as though every one in nature is.

[PalmatierMeg]

Not sure what you mean by "misaligned". But CIDPs are desert palms that prefer an arid climate and resent being flooded with copious water. They do outstandingly in Cali but struggle in Florida swelter and are prone to fungal infections. Here in Cape Coral they look ratty, yellowed from nutrient deficiency and sickly from disease in our humid climate. And they frequently die. The City of Cape Coral plants them as boulevard trees and when they die replaces them with the same. Cape Coral employees seldom learn from experience.

[Feng]

Just trying to protect my investment! I am a palm beginner.

[Feng]

The leaves on the frond are alternating at an angle. They used to be completely straight.

if you don’t take care of them they will all look bad but I found some where I live that look spectacular!

[FlaPalmLover]

Since it's now been in the ground for two weeks, and generally appears healthy, I'd say you could cut back on the watering to every 2-3 days. Once the rainy season hits, you may only need to water when we get a dry spell for a few days. What part of Florida are you in, if you don't mind? 

[Feng]

Thanks for the tip! 

im from Deland Florida zone 9b. 

found the tallest one in my area. My jaw dropped when I first saw it. Looks bigger in person.

[FlaPalmLover]

You are pretty close to me! I asked because CIDPs seem to possibly look nicer in northern Florida - they may like the slightly cooler weather there. Have you been to California? As Meg mentioned, they do better in California's Mediterranean climate. There are some pretty nice specimens here in Florida here and there, but you should keep in mind that lethal bronzing could ultimately take yours out (although they are also threatened in Southern California by the South American palm weevil). Lethal bronzing is threatening most palms in the phoenix genus in Florida. They are also not fast growers. The larger specimens you see are probably several decades old. In Florida there seems to be a real tendency for ferns and other invasive plants to take habitat in between their old boots, too, which harms their overall aesthetic.

Santa Monica Blvd in Beverly Hills, CA:

[Harry’s Palms]

I agree . I think it is fine for a freshly planted palm. One thing about palms , if you plan on adding more or just stick with one , patience and understand that it takes years to get substantial growth. The Canariensis does not need to be trained to look its best, it can do that all by itself if given the right environment. If a set back happens it can recover if the environment is right. You can get plenty of help here and other places online or buy a book on Palm care there are some great ones out there that are specific for your area. Welcome and enjoy. Harry

[ahosey01]

Ordinarily I would not dare disagree with @PalmatierMeg because she has probably forgotten more in the last year than I have learned since buying my first palm, but I have a slightly different take on these palms’ preference for water.

They certainly are prone to fungal and bacterial infections in humid climates, and they certainly do prefer arid ones.  No argument there.  However, I suspect these palms actually can’t be overwatered in a hot, dry climate.  The reason I say that is because I have seen TONS of these naturalized in the strip of desert between Bullhead City and Parker in Arizona, and they’re always huge and they’re always growing in the same conditions.  They are on the shore of a bureau of reclamation managed reservoir (or dammed strip of Colorado River) where the water level is constant, and they’re always growing right at the water line.  Often, their trunks are just barely kissing the water.  The soil those are growing in is definitely saturated 24/7/365, and they all seem to love it.

That, however, is about the hottest, driest climate in the US.  If you live somewhere like that, I wouldn’t worry about overwatering.  Some commercial date growing operations - which use a palm in the same genus to produce fruit - use 300+ gallons of water per palm per day.  If you’re in Florida or Mississippi or something though, then nothing I said applies to you. lol

[ahosey01]

… and i just read beyond the first post and saw that you live in Florida. 😑

[Merlyn]

@Feng if by "misaligned" you mean the frond has a bit of "twist" to it, that's not too unusual.  If you mean that the leaflets are coming out of the rachis/petiole at a couple of different angles, that is also normal.  Phoenix hybridize easily, so many of them are part CIDP and part Sylvestris or Dactilifera...or even Roebellini.  There's a good chance yours is a part hybrid, so seeing some leaflets coming out at 2 or 4 different angles is common. 

I have a similar CIDP here in the Sanford area.  Mine is in too much PM shade, so it suffers from slow growth and occasional leaf fungal problems.  It has mostly flat-plane leaflet arrangement, but they go to 4 different angles near the frond base.

[ahosey01]

I should add - for a third post - that I see absolutely nothing wrong with your palm and "misaligned" is not really accurate here.

[Jim in Los Altos]

1 hour ago, ahosey01 said:

Ordinarily I would not dare disagree with @PalmatierMeg because she has probably forgotten more in the last year than I have learned since buying my first palm, but I have a slightly different take on these palms’ preference for water.

They certainly are prone to fungal and bacterial infections in humid climates, and they certainly do prefer arid ones.  No argument there.  However, I suspect these palms actually can’t be overwatered in a hot, dry climate.  The reason I say that is because I have seen TONS of these naturalized in the strip of desert between Bullhead City and Parker in Arizona, and they’re always huge and they’re always growing in the same conditions.  They are on the shore of a bureau of reclamation managed reservoir (or dammed strip of Colorado River) where the water level is constant, and they’re always growing right at the water line.  Often, their trunks are just barely kissing the water.  The soil those are growing in is definitely saturated 24/7/365, and they all seem to love it.

That, however, is about the hottest, driest climate in the US.  If you live somewhere like that, I wouldn’t worry about overwatering.  Some commercial date growing operations - which use a palm in the same genus to produce fruit - use 300+ gallons of water per palm per day.  If you’re in Florida or Mississippi or something though, then nothing I said applies to you. lol

CIDPs certainly enjoy the damp cool air of San Francisco despite their desert growth abilities however.

[Harry’s Palms]

They seem to be quite happy in California. They pop up as volunteers in many places. Harry

[ahosey01]

I would also love to start a commercial date orchard here in our new place in South Texas.  But those late summer rains leave my dream to evade me...

[PalmatierMeg]

In an earlier post I said some things about CIDPs that offended this new forum member. I apologize to him and hope he reconsiders his decision. There are so many knowledgeable members on PT who can answer his queries with more tact than I apparently have. Like General Douglas MacArthur I will just fade away

[SM458]

It doesn’t appear to be looking bad. 
They do extremely well in California. Some are sprouting out in wild in urban Southern California. 

[KsLouisiana]

I know I'm late to the post... but in my area CIDPs look really healthy to me. Maybe not Cali material but they do naturalize. There's a restaurant that throws their teimmings into the woods and there are CIDPs everywhere. In a place that gets 60" of rain a year and high humidity I was a little shocked to see that.

[Tyrone]

I’ve got Phoenix canariensis growing in the banks of my lake with roots submerged all year and they love it. They can tolerate poor soil and drought but give em copious water and good soil and they’re off. 

[KsLouisiana]

On 10/16/2024 at 9:12 AM, Tyrone said:

I’ve got Phoenix canariensis growing in the banks of my lake with roots submerged all year and they love it. They can tolerate poor soil and drought but give em copious water and good soil and they’re off. 

No way! That's incredible. I really love the CIDP

[Palmfarmer]

On 4/23/2024 at 2:21 PM, FlaPalmLover said:

You are pretty close to me! I asked because CIDPs seem to possibly look nicer in northern Florida - they may like the slightly cooler weather there. Have you been to California? As Meg mentioned, they do better in California's Mediterranean climate. There are some pretty nice specimens here in Florida here and there, but you should keep in mind that lethal bronzing could ultimately take yours out (although they are also threatened in Southern California by the South American palm weevil). Lethal bronzing is threatening most palms in the phoenix genus in Florida. They are also not fast growers. The larger specimens you see are probably several decades old. In Florida there seems to be a real tendency for ferns and other invasive plants to take habitat in between their old boots, too, which harms their overall aesthetic.

Santa Monica Blvd in Beverly Hills, CA:

Not fast growers? Down here They Are incredibly fast. Maybe slow in FL. 

[Tyrone]

A couple of my CIDP growing with their feet in water. 

[Jonathan]

That's how a happy CIDP should look! Nice full, lush crown...none of that pineapple business!

Quite a cantilever on the jetty Tyrone, have you got a D9 parked behind the shed?

[Tyrone]

6 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Quite a cantilever on the jetty Tyrone, have you got a D9 parked behind the shed?

That was put in by the previous owner. They are street power poles set back into the bank and believe it or not he buried an old bath tub over them to hold them down which I excavated and filled with water to grow some plants in.  Pretty sturdy. It does bounce a little near the end though. 

[DoomsDave]

On 4/23/2024 at 8:29 PM, Harry’s Palms said:

They seem to be quite happy in California. They pop up as volunteers in many places. Harry

Including my place!

[Jonathan]

6 hours ago, Tyrone said:

That was put in by the previous owner. They are street power poles set back into the bank and believe it or not he buried an old bath tub over them to hold them down which I excavated and filled with water to grow some plants in.  Pretty sturdy. It does bounce a little near the end though. 

A super sized diving board!