A couple of joey magnifica sprouts

[happypalms]

It’s still raining so not a  lot happening in the garden so time to pot up a few magnifica joeys these one where sown on the 22/1/24 so a little patience is needed along with luck so far 90 out of two hundred seeds and that was with a delay in customs by 6 weeks so not to bad as of yet 

[Nico971]

Nice, I germinated 7 out of 10 from IPS. In your experience do I put them in pot at this size ? 

[happypalms]

8 hours ago, Nico971 said:

Nice, I germinated 7 out of 10 from IPS. In your experience do I put them in pot at this size ? 

I usually wait for the plumule to reach the soil surface the same length as the seed if you see the ones in my photos the length of the plumule then you repot them quite deep up to the seed again on the soil surface in deep containers the odd seed is a bit longer and you just simply let the seed sit a bit higher once again look at the photos where as kerriodoxa are different again pot up to the button leaving the seed out of the soil the same goes for Bismarck’s on repotting being remote germinating but Joeys set the seed on top of the soil have a good look at the photos I have germinated over 2200 of them so a little experience with joeys but be very careful don’t damage the roots 

[Nico971]

1 hour ago, happypalms said:

I usually wait for the plumule to reach the soil surface the same length as the seed if you see the ones in my photos the length of the plumule then you repot them quite deep up to the seed again on the soil surface in deep containers the odd seed is a bit longer and you just simply let the seed sit a bit higher once again look at the photos where as kerriodoxa are different again pot up to the button leaving the seed out of the soil the same goes for Bismarck’s on repotting being remote germinating but Joeys set the seed on top of the soil have a good look at the photos I have germinated over 2200 of them so a little experience with joeys but be very careful don’t damage the roots 

Thank you 🙏

[timbo22]

I have 200 Joeys, both magnifica and altifrons, coming from Rarepalmtrees,com in Germany. They've been in the mail since Feb. 28. They got lost in LA for 2 months. Tracking says they're finally in Honolulu, but still need to go to Hawaii state inspection. That should happen next week and so I'm hoping to get them soon.  Do you think they can survive 10 weeks in transit? They cost me $400. 

[happypalms]

14 minutes ago, timbo22 said:

I have 200 Joeys, both magnifica and altifrons, coming from Rarepalmtrees,com in Germany. They've been in the mail since Feb. 28. They got lost in LA for 2 months. Tracking says they're finally in Honolulu, but still need to go to Hawaii state inspection. That should happen next week and so I'm hoping to get them soon.  Do you think they can survive 10 weeks in transit? They cost me $400. 

Nice purchases a grower with good taste in palms you should get a fair germination rate considering there journey from my experience they  do stay viable for a long time so there is some hope they may even have started to germinate I had 1000 seeds  sent to Australia from Thailand taking  around 5 weeks only to have customs send them back some 6 weeks later I got them finally but i only got around 100 from a 1000 seeds I wasn’t sure how old they where originally and there storage but don’t give up on them rps have good storage so that’s one advantage you have 30 degrees Celsius bottom heating coco coir perlite mix asap you get them  rps have pretty good seeds when it comes to joeys they sound like there from the same seed batch I purchased from rps  mine have germinated and are coming up still don’t give up there is some hope from my experience that being said soak them when you get them good luck 

[timbo22]

Do you germinate them in tubs that are about 8 inches deep with the seed near the surface?      10% germination is better than nothing, but still would be disappointing. If I get 20 seedlings, they'll have cost me $20 each.  Yikes.  I might as well have bought them from Floribunda.    What's the typical germination rate?

[harleyb]

I've just bought some altifrons and magnifica seeds from RPS as well so this thread is very timely, thank you. Being in NZ, it always takes a long time for RPS seeds to get through certification + transit + customs inspections before they arrive. Usually a couple of months from the time of order. I'm not expecting mine until the end of June.

Very interested to read about germination methods for these. I want to get this right given the cost of them! Looks similar to how bizzies should be treated? I'm getting good rates for bizzies by soaking them for 3 days then pressing them into a moist coco fibre + sand + perlite + vermiculite mix and incubating them in an old lab oven at 30C day/23C night. Usually have 90%+ popping by 2 weeks.

However I've also been removing the exocarp over the lid on each one before soaking to speed them along (not de-lidding though due to risk of fungus attack). Do you think this is necessary for Joey seeds or are they fine as they are?

 

[happypalms]

13 hours ago, harleyb said:

I've just bought some altifrons and magnifica seeds from RPS as well so this thread is very timely, thank you. Being in NZ, it always takes a long time for RPS seeds to get through certification + transit + customs inspections before they arrive. Usually a couple of months from the time of order. I'm not expecting mine until the end of June.

Very interested to read about germination methods for these. I want to get this right given the cost of them! Looks similar to how bizzies should be treated? I'm getting good rates for bizzies by soaking them for 3 days then pressing them into a moist coco fibre + sand + perlite + vermiculite mix and incubating them in an old lab oven at 30C day/23C night. Usually have 90%+ popping by 2 weeks.

However I've also been removing the exocarp over the lid on each one before soaking to speed them along (not de-lidding though due to risk of fungus attack). Do you think this is necessary for Joey seeds or are they fine as they are?

 

Glad to see that you are getting some joeys they are quite cool tolerant there is some in the Sydney botanical gardens so you should be fine in kiwi land there is no need to remove the endocarp in my opinion go the bottom heating method as I wrote there similar to Bismarck you leave the seed out and hang it over the container not so with joeys repot back up to the seed so you need deep containers if you follow what I have written you should have no problems good luck keeps us posted 

[happypalms]

21 hours ago, timbo22 said:

Do you germinate them in tubs that are about 8 inches deep with the seed near the surface?      10% germination is better than nothing, but still would be disappointing. If I get 20 seedlings, they'll have cost me $20 each.  Yikes.  I might as well have bought them from Floribunda.    What's the typical germination rate?

I germinate them in styrofoam box’s with the lids for many reasons one is etoliation the other is styrofoam is insulation but line the bottom with plastic I find the strike rate is around 60 to 70 percent you can germinate them in a community pot or the plastic tubs but if using bottom heating they dry out a bit on the bottom so keep an eye on that joeys are worth around $110 aus dollars once potted into 8 inch containers and a six inch container $60 aus dollars but up to $150 to $250 once you get a few good root bound ones so worth the money your $20 outlook is worth it seedlings sell for $25 aus dollars but hard to get due to the fact that are worth more later on you should get more than 20 good luck find the deepest container you can to germinate them in 

[happypalms]

For those interested I did a post with a short video of the technique I use to transplant them after they have germinated but wait for the spikes to appear on top of the soil before transplanting but be very careful with there roots not breaking them from what I can remember I only lost around half a dozen from 2200 of them due to broken roots 

[happypalms]

[happypalms]

Ps grow them on benches of the ground and try to use the air prune technique for your tube stocks an absolute must do don’t let the roots grow into the soil!!

[harleyb]

On 5/13/2024 at 10:40 PM, happypalms said:

Ps grow them on benches of the ground and try to use the air prune technique for your tube stocks an absolute must do don’t let the roots grow into the soil!!

Wow, your photos look great! I'm envious!

Regarding germinating in styrofoam boxes, I assume the box is just placed on a heat mat for bottom heating rather than the mat going under the growing medium inside the box? And do you measure the temperature at the base of the medium? My Joey seeds have cost me a mint and I don't want to mess them up!

Thanks for any advice 🙂

[happypalms]

Yes just place the box on top of the heat mat I don’t measure the temperature at the bottom of the box there quite tough Joey seeds the temperature on the surface or around the seed is what is important joeys love the heat you should have good germination rate provided you get healthy seeds I have a golden rule the more exspensive the plant or seeds the less you fuss over them growers with rare exspensive seeds or plants tend to panic and fuss to much over them just treat them like any other seed I have done the same simply because they are exspensive doesn’t make them any different in mother nature’s world 

[harleyb]

1 hour ago, happypalms said:

Yes just place the box on top of the heat mat I don’t measure the temperature at the bottom of the box there quite tough Joey seeds the temperature on the surface or around the seed is what is important joeys love the heat you should have good germination rate provided you get healthy seeds I have a golden rule the more exspensive the plant or seeds the less you fuss over them growers with rare exspensive seeds or plants tend to panic and fuss to much over them just treat them like any other seed I have done the same simply because they are exspensive doesn’t make them any different in mother nature’s world 

Thanks for your help, greatly appreciated. Yeah I know, I shouldn't get nervous about failing with expensive seed. Wish me luck! 🤞

[happypalms]

2 hours ago, harleyb said:

Thanks for your help, greatly appreciated. Yeah I know, I shouldn't get nervous about failing with expensive seed. Wish me luck! 🤞

It’s only natural to worry about exspensive and rare things a few months time you will know if the worry was worth it 😆

[timbo22]

After 10 weeks my package finally got to Hawaii Plant Inspection and while the other seeds passed and were sent to me, all of the Joey seeds were intercepted because they were contaminated with a fungus called Hypocreales. They are to be destroyed or sent back to Rarepalmseeds.com.   I feel this is the company's fault and the seeds should be replaced with fresh ones or my money refunded. I emailed the company and they still haven't responded. What does the palm community think about this situation? At this point I'm out $400 without nothing to show for it.  

[happypalms]

4 hours ago, timbo22 said:

After 10 weeks my package finally got to Hawaii Plant Inspection and while the other seeds passed and were sent to me, all of the Joey seeds were intercepted because they were contaminated with a fungus called Hypocreales. They are to be destroyed or sent back to Rarepalmseeds.com.   I feel this is the company's fault and the seeds should be replaced with fresh ones or my money refunded. I emailed the company and they still haven't responded. What does the palm community think about this situation? At this point I'm out $400 without nothing to show for it.  

That’s so disappointing send them back to rps I say that way they know the situation sounds like they germinated in transit the same thing happened to me with 1000 seeds sent back treated then sent back to Australia I understand your situation customs are a law unto themselves and not to be mucked with ask customs if they can be treated they can and do treat them in Australia for a cost involved I just paid a bill today of $260 for my seeds to be inspected and treated simply because they left the word trogoderma of the certificate I paid for which was a clerical error so now iam waiting on a duplicate certificate to forward to customs before they release my seeds you’re situation is most likely one of many I even have been told of 100 sabinara magnifica paperwork stuff up with the seeds been destroyed that’s not cheap that investment hopefully they will give you store credit or new seeds I myself have lost large amounts of money due to customs and paperwork or delays in receiving them only to have nothing germinate in the end due to the fact it took so long in customs ost likely don’t give up on your passion to grow joeys it took me 4 years to get 1000 Kerriodoxa seeds but I got them in the end but I find it strange Hawaii getting your seeds good luck keep on trying that’s the palm seed industry you win some and you lose some and it’s shame to have such a rare palm seed be destroyed due to the postal service we are one or two of many this has happened to iam sure the days of importing suit cases full of seeds are over due to customs killing the exotic plant trade business just for big commercial companies or a industry in Australia that exports millions of dollars worth of products so the government can make tax dollars I respect our bio security rules personally for the native plants and animals but over regulation and governments don’t understand the small business just big business and there greedy profit grabbing good luck on your venture.

Richard 

[harleyb]

On 5/17/2024 at 2:45 PM, timbo22 said:

After 10 weeks my package finally got to Hawaii Plant Inspection and while the other seeds passed and were sent to me, all of the Joey seeds were intercepted because they were contaminated with a fungus called Hypocreales. They are to be destroyed or sent back to Rarepalmseeds.com.   I feel this is the company's fault and the seeds should be replaced with fresh ones or my money refunded. I emailed the company and they still haven't responded. What does the palm community think about this situation? At this point I'm out $400 without nothing to show for it.  

Ouch, that's not good. Please keep us posted on how you get on with RPS, that's an expensive failure & shouldn't have happened. If I was the seller in this instance I'd be offering a refund or at least a credit.

My own order of Joey seeds (still processing) may well be from the same batch, so I've written to RPS asking them to treat them with a fungicidal powder before they are sent. Don't know if they will do this but I really don't want to have the same thing happen!

[David B]

Timbo 22 - Surely part of the problem is they spent 2 months lost in LA... Can't blame. RPS for that.

What amazes me is the poor service the freight companies provide. 180 euros express freight to NZ and it takes 10 - 14 days ex Germany sometimes via UK  with stops in US and usually Australia! And then there's the NZ customs and MPI circus 2 - 14 days.....

[timbo22]

1 hour ago, David B said:

Timbo 22 - Surely part of the problem is they spent 2 months lost in LA... Can't blame. RPS for that.

What amazes me is the poor service the freight companies provide. 180 euros express freight to NZ and it takes 10 - 14 days ex Germany sometimes via UK  with stops in US and usually Australia! And then there's the NZ customs and MPI circus 2 - 14 days.....

 In the package there were lots of other palm seeds that spent the same amount of time in transit, and they passed inspection because they weren't infected with a fungus. The Joeys were already contaminated with Hypocreales fungal spores in Germany and should have been disinfected before packaging. That's RPS fault. They could have been sprayed with diluted hydrogen peroxide and then dried before placing in a bag. It surprises me that they don't attempt to prevent the spread of diseases worldwide. They should be experimenting to find the best method to do this.  

[timbo22]

11 hours ago, harleyb said:

Ouch, that's not good. Please keep us posted on how you get on with RPS, that's an expensive failure & shouldn't have happened. If I was the seller in this instance I'd be offering a refund or at least a credit.

My own order of Joey seeds (still processing) may well be from the same batch, so I've written to RPS asking them to treat them with a fungicidal powder before they are sent. Don't know if they will do this but I really don't want to have the same thing happen!

Have they responded to your request? I'm still waiting.

 

[harleyb]

2 hours ago, timbo22 said:

Have they responded to your request? I'm still waiting.

 

No, not yet. But it is the weekend so I'm not expecting an immediate reply. I'll let you know if I get a response.

[happypalms]

On 5/19/2024 at 6:38 AM, harleyb said:

Ouch, that's not good. Please keep us posted on how you get on with RPS, that's an expensive failure & shouldn't have happened. If I was the seller in this instance I'd be offering a refund or at least a credit.

My own order of Joey seeds (still processing) may well be from the same batch, so I've written to RPS asking them to treat them with a fungicidal powder before they are sent. Don't know if they will do this but I really don't want to have the same thing happen!

Rps must get hundreds of orders so I would think that they are pretty busy iam confident they will do as you ask them there should be a better system in the customs department at the receiving end and automatically treat the seeds upon arrival but that’s another issue with importing seeds

[timbo22]

On 5/20/2024 at 8:58 PM, happypalms said:

Rps must get hundreds of orders so I would think that they are pretty busy iam confident they will do as you ask them there should be a better system in the customs department at the receiving end and automatically treat the seeds upon arrival but that’s another issue with importing seeds

Rps just sent me an email saying that they had responded 5-16 and it might be in my spam folder. Well. it was. And they had offered to replace the seeds. So, I'm very thankful and would recommend doing business with them.

 

[tim_brissy_13]

7 hours ago, timbo22 said:

Rps just sent me an email saying that they had responded 5-16 and it might be in my spam folder. Well. it was. And they had offered to replace the seeds. So, I'm very thankful and would recommend doing business with them.

 

From experience, RPS are generally pretty good on the customer service side of things. I think we all need to be mindful that they operate in a space where there is risk and quality control of seeds is difficult when there are long transit times. They sometimes get bad reviews, but I’ve found them to be quite fair and they generally acknowledge if they’ve made any genuine mistakes. 

[harleyb]

On 5/24/2024 at 6:01 AM, timbo22 said:

Rps just sent me an email saying that they had responded 5-16 and it might be in my spam folder. Well. it was. And they had offered to replace the seeds. So, I'm very thankful and would recommend doing business with them.

 

That's a good result, I'm pleased that they have resolved this for you.

I'm yet to get a response but here's hoping for no problems with my shipment.

[happypalms]

1 hour ago, harleyb said:

That's a good result, I'm pleased that they have resolved this for you.

I'm yet to get a response but here's hoping for no problems with my shipment.

I suppose if you get a hundred apples and three is one rotten apple in the bushel then the rest will go rotten it is difficult to tell which apple is rotten in a batch of seeds the same rule would apply rps do there best but when dealing with a living plant product once taken out of storage and sent in the mail you can’t blame the company whole pallet loads of fruit are rejected all the time at fruit markets due to one rotten punnet of berries and iam pretty sure if the supplier of that fruit knew it was bad in the first place they would have not sent them to market I guess the same goes for palm seeds rps are not a fraudulent company they would do there best to avoid such issues after all there business is our business and they need customers the same as we need seeds

[happypalms]

[harleyb]

On 5/25/2024 at 11:07 AM, happypalms said:

I suppose if you get a hundred apples and three is one rotten apple in the bushel then the rest will go rotten it is difficult to tell which apple is rotten in a batch of seeds the same rule would apply rps do there best but when dealing with a living plant product once taken out of storage and sent in the mail you can’t blame the company whole pallet loads of fruit are rejected all the time at fruit markets due to one rotten punnet of berries and iam pretty sure if the supplier of that fruit knew it was bad in the first place they would have not sent them to market I guess the same goes for palm seeds rps are not a fraudulent company they would do there best to avoid such issues after all there business is our business and they need customers the same as we need seeds

Ok I've heard from RPS and they say that I was too late getting in touch to have the joey seeds treated with a fungicide as the phyto had already been issued and any treatments need to be declared. Fair enough. They said they have carefully picked out the best looking seeds for my order and packed them in vermiculite and they are now on their way. So I'm happy with that, touch wood. Going on past experience, I should receive them by the end of June. Then the fun part, getting them to germinate. I'm curious, is a steady temperature setting best, or should I set different daytime and nighttime temperatures?

[happypalms]

6 minutes ago, harleyb said:

Ok I've heard from RPS and they say that I was too late getting in touch to have the joey seeds treated with a fungicide as the phyto had already been issued and any treatments need to be declared. Fair enough. They said they have carefully picked out the best looking seeds for my order and packed them in vermiculite and they are now on their way. So I'm happy with that, touch wood. Going on past experience, I should receive them by the end of June. Then the fun part, getting them to germinate. I'm curious, is a steady temperature setting best, or should I set different daytime and nighttime temperatures?

Glad you got it sorted out with RPS and hopefully you get your seeds asap it will be winter in kiwi land still when you get your seeds by the sounds of it i would run them with bottom heating with a blanket on top of your germination box’s at 30 degrees Celsius they like the warm conditions the blanket will help with insulation and hopefully you won’t have to run your heat mats continuously to keep the temperature at 30 but yes continuous heat winter will give some variation in temperature anyway so do t panic if there good seeds they will germinate well and keep us posted on your success.

[harleyb]

On 6/8/2024 at 8:05 PM, happypalms said:

Glad you got it sorted out with RPS and hopefully you get your seeds asap it will be winter in kiwi land still when you get your seeds by the sounds of it i would run them with bottom heating with a blanket on top of your germination box’s at 30 degrees Celsius they like the warm conditions the blanket will help with insulation and hopefully you won’t have to run your heat mats continuously to keep the temperature at 30 but yes continuous heat winter will give some variation in temperature anyway so do t panic if there good seeds they will germinate well and keep us posted on your success.

Well, bugger. My package arrived this morning minus the Joey seeds which have been seized by NZ Customs because they have identified insects, eggs, AND fungal attack! I've been offered methyl bromide treatment at my cost, but that may affect seed viability and even then the seeds need to have the fungus identified (again, at my cost) which might mean that they still won't be released depending on what the fungus is.

So disappointing, I was all ready to go to get the Joey seeds germinating. And they were damn expensive! I've contacted RPS, I do hope they will be helpful to resolve this (so far I've found them very good to deal with so here's hoping). They might offer to replace them, but I would prefer that I instead get a credit towards another purchase of something else. I think their Joey seeds are just too risky.

Where else could Joey seed be purchased from??

[happypalms]

9 hours ago, harleyb said:

Well, bugger. My package arrived this morning minus the Joey seeds which have been seized by NZ Customs because they have identified insects, eggs, AND fungal attack! I've been offered methyl bromide treatment at my cost, but that may affect seed viability and even then the seeds need to have the fungus identified (again, at my cost) which might mean that they still won't be released depending on what the fungus is.

So disappointing, I was all ready to go to get the Joey seeds germinating. And they were damn expensive! I've contacted RPS, I do hope they will be helpful to resolve this (so far I've found them very good to deal with so here's hoping). They might offer to replace them, but I would prefer that I instead get a credit towards another purchase of something else. I think their Joey seeds are just too risky.

Where else could Joey seed be purchased from??

Harleyb I know the feeling customs has given you get the seeds treated what a journey you have on getting your Joey seeds they will still germinate the seeds are a living thing and you just want to germinate them what customs are doing is keeping themselves in a job and they make us importers pay for there  job to put it simple they do it to all Importers of seed we just got to pay our way they don’t care for the seeds being rare or endangered just keep a government system in a job is all they want I was lucky with my Joey seeds I imported big amounts when I had the chance try to get your seeds tested and treated and yes they will bill you for that.

[harleyb]

1 hour ago, happypalms said:

Harleyb I know the feeling customs has given you get the seeds treated what a journey you have on getting your Joey seeds they will still germinate the seeds are a living thing and you just want to germinate them what customs are doing is keeping themselves in a job and they make us importers pay for there  job to put it simple they do it to all Importers of seed we just got to pay our way they don’t care for the seeds being rare or endangered just keep a government system in a job is all they want I was lucky with my Joey seeds I imported big amounts when I had the chance try to get your seeds tested and treated and yes they will bill you for that.

Yeah I know, it feels like that. I just don't know if I can stomach the additional cost for treatment especially when they want the seeds to be first treated with methyl bromide for a bit over $100 + courier (doesn't that affect seed viability?) THEN they want the fungus to be identified (add $370 + courier) and even after that they may not release the seeds depending on what the fungus is. There would be another charge for fungicidal treatment as well. So I'd probably be looking at shelling out close to the original cost of the seeds all over again for only a chance that they will be released, and even then they may be damaged by methyl bromide treatment. Doesn't sound like a great deal to me. 

This shouldn't have happened as the seeds were certified as pest- and disease-free at their end by ePhyto and only took 2 weeks to arrive once they were despatched. RPS also told me they took care to pick out the best seeds after I emailed them with my concerns regarding possible contamination, but somehow the seeds were still contaminated with both fungus and insects!

Can you suggest another source for these? I'd love to try my hand at growing them but don't think getting seed from RPS for this species is going to work.

(I should say, the other two species that did pass inspection look fine, no worries -- but their Joeys are clearly problematic).

Grumble

[happypalms]

33 minutes ago, harleyb said:

Yeah I know, it feels like that. I just don't know if I can stomach the additional cost for treatment especially when they want the seeds to be first treated with methyl bromide for a bit over $100 + courier (doesn't that affect seed viability?) THEN they want the fungus to be identified (add $370 + courier) and even after that they may not release the seeds depending on what the fungus is. There would be another charge for fungicidal treatment as well. So I'd probably be looking at shelling out close to the original cost of the seeds all over again for only a chance that they will be released, and even then they may be damaged by methyl bromide treatment. Doesn't sound like a great deal to me. 

This shouldn't have happened as the seeds were certified as pest- and disease-free at their end by ePhyto and only took 2 weeks to arrive once they were despatched. RPS also told me they took care to pick out the best seeds after I emailed them with my concerns regarding possible contamination, but somehow the seeds were still contaminated with both fungus and insects!

Can you suggest another source for these? I'd love to try my hand at growing them but don't think getting seed from RPS for this species is going to work.

(I should say, the other two species that did pass inspection look fine, no worries -- but their Joeys are clearly problematic).

Grumble

Not a good outcome the cost of it all as a small  importer that’s the brunt of the the cost we all have to pay unfortunately if we where big importers with import licenses it might be a bit easier it from what I can understand palm seeds are definitely not grain seeds all are living things except the palm seeds need moisture to survive where as grain seeds take a lot more dry in storage so the palm seeds are more susceptible to fungi regardless of treatments and storage conditions prior to exporting beyond control of the exporter it’s just nature of the business we deal in that being said customs certainly don’t make it easy and there needs to be a better system in place to speed up seed clearance of bio security I do respect our environment and the rules behind  protecting it but not in a draconian manner as to such exstent our seeds are put in lockdown and treated as covid victims just  to enter a country when it’s only a seed.