Newly Installed Canary Island Date Palms - Brown, Dry, Stiff Fronds

[hangtime21]

Hello Palmtalk community,

I’m reaching out from Austin, TX, with a bit of a palm predicament. In mid-February, I had two beautiful Canary Island Date Palms installed. To keep them hydrated, my landscaper set up an irrigation system with sprinkler spray heads (despite my preference for a drip system). Since then, I’ve been running it for about 15-20 minutes, 2-3 days a week.

Initially, the palms were lush and green, but they haven’t been looking so great lately. I'm worried this could be a sign of trouble. Could it be an issue with under-watering, over-watering, soil nutrient deficiency, or, heaven forbid, Fusarium Wilt?

Below, you’ll find the first image showing the palms on the day they were planted, and the subsequent images from today (June 5th, 2024). Since installation, I've trimmed about 5 fronds from the one on the left, and now 6-7 from the on on the right.

The fronds are getting brown from the tips down to the base on these outer layers. There's usually a little bit of green leaflets remaining at the bottoms.

I’d greatly appreciate any recommendations on how to revive these palms. Is this a straightforward fix, or am I facing a potential Fusarium problem or something else?

Thank you in advance for your help!

[Harry’s Palms]

How’s the temp been there lately? We are coming into summer and they still don’t have their footing yet. I think I would just make sure the ground stays damp at least well beyond the fresh dug soil area, in other words beyond where the actual dig circle so the roots can grow out easily. Harry

[Merlyn]

How big were the root balls when they were transplanted?  It seems from the top photo that the rootball was really small, maybe only 3ft diameter?  This is just a guess based on the shape of the dirt.  A tiny rootball makes survival chances much lower...

[hangtime21]

Thank you for the replies! Here's some more info that can hopefully help shed some more light on the situation...

Sourcing: South Texas area, near Zapata.

Installation Date: Feb 20, 2024. Frond rope ties cut mid April.

Root Ball Size: I'd say roughly 3-4ft in diameter for the rootball.

Irrigation System: Pop-up spray heads offset between palms, runs 2-3 days/wk for about 15-20 min. I watered them more frequently in April since I had sod installed nearby also.

Mulch: Black star gravel with a landscaping barrier.

Weather: For April and May, It's been in the 70s-90s. We've had about 8" of rainfall total these past two months.

 

Here's an overview of the setup as of April 7, 2024. Considerably more green fronds, especially for the one on the left. And Also, here's the rootball as it was being transported.

[Harry’s Palms]

Those are going to be beautiful when they get acclimated . Harry

[ahosey01]

These actually transplant like shit so the fact yours look as good as they do after being field dug tells me you’re doing fine.  I might put them on drip for the first year instead of the sprinkler though.

[hangtime21]

Thank you both for the words of encouragement! So it's perfectly normal to have had this many fronds turn brown for a while? Should I continue to trim off these brown fronds like in the picture below? Is it a sign that they need water adjustments, any specific nutrients , etc or just part of the process?

 

[ahosey01]

With these, during the growing season, more water is usually better.  There are many naturalized specimens growing on the banks of the colorado river in Arizona with their roots halfway in water.  That said, once they’re established their water requirements can be reduced significantly.  You also want to ensure you have a dry cycle accounted for in there.  Is your soil clay?

[ahosey01]

I should ask - where did you buy these?  Was this a moon valley planting?

[hangtime21]

@ahosey01 I got these from a dealer on Facebook who picked them up from a farm in Zapata. Yeah we have clay soil here. 

 

What would the ideal irrigation and nutrient set up look like for these in our environment here in Austin? How long would you expect them to fully establish, about a year after planting?

[ahosey01]

4 minutes ago, hangtime21 said:

@ahosey01 I got these from a dealer on Facebook who picked them up from a farm in Zapata. Yeah we have clay soil here. 

 

What would the ideal irrigation and nutrient set up look like for these in our environment here in Austin? How long would you expect them to fully establish, about a year after planting?

I think the only thing these have issues with is magnesium deficiency in some soils.  Usually they’re basically care-free except water.  I doubt you’ll have that problem.

If you want to ensure they don’t catch LB, get you an oxytetracycline injection kit.  They’re cheap.

[sonoranfans]

Is your soil high drainage?  IF not the pop up sprinkler heads would be a mistake.  ALso you need deep watering down to as deep as that rootball goes.  I have high drainage sandy soil in florida which is the correct type of soil(high drainage) for pop up heads but I run them 30-35 minutes.  When I was in arizona I used drippers 3-4 2gallon each for 5 hours overnight every 3 days in summer.  The depth of penetration in clay soils is almost purely a function of time not flow volume.  IF I did that 15-20min popup head in my AZ yard, 95% of my palms would have died within months in the hot season.  You need a good dry cycle so you need to wet and then allow to dry that soil down deep.   Also DONT fertilize them for 2-3 months or so.

[hangtime21]

@sonoranfans thanks for the info! Should I cut off those 4 or so brown fronds now or leave them? 

[Merlyn]

@hangtime21 generally leave any front on there until it is completely dry and dessicated.  Palms will 'eat' the old fronds for nutrients, especially if they are short on real roots.  If in doubt, leave it on there!

[Chester B]

Also it may take 2 or 3 years for these palms to fully settle in.  Transplanting big palms is hard on them and you have to have a lot of patience.  Personally I like 15 gallon or smaller palms, as they have minimal transplant shock and will generally outgrow any large transplanted ones within 5 years.

[sonoranfans]

2 hours ago, Chester B said:

Also it may take 2 or 3 years for these palms to fully settle in.  Transplanting big palms is hard on them and you have to have a lot of patience.  Personally I like 15 gallon or smaller palms, as they have minimal transplant shock and will generally outgrow any large transplanted ones within 5 years.

I agree with this regarding the recovery from transplant/planting shock.  THis is especailly true goven so little in terms of photosynthetic material left on the plant.   You might not see a notably difference for a while, be patient.

[hangtime21]

Hello all,

 

I wanted to share an update on the palm tree. Today, I trimmed off all of the brown fronds I could have access to. I had an arborist come by and they felt it was not fusarium wilt or any other disease, but it definitely looks worse in July than it did in June.

I also discovered, after two windy rain storms this past week, that there is an increasing amount of these maggots(?) present on the ground near the tree. Could these potentially be a pest that is taking up home in the desiccated palm fronds or trunk somewhere? 

 

[MJSanDiego]

Oh no! Most may not know that the Canary Island Date Palms are dying all over San Diego by the South American palm weevil, started in 2016. Killed hundreds. I see them dying all over the place today.  The crown goes bad fast. It looked like the palm weevil when I saw the symtoms of your crown but I could not be 100% sure. Where did you get the palms? You can read all about the South American Palm Weevil and many don't know that is why these palms are disappearing in San Diego, and they will attack other palms but the Canary. Island Date Palm is their favorite host. It's devestating and they are still trying to figure out how to stop it

[hangtime21]

Just now, MJSanDiego said:

Oh no! Most may not know that the Canary Island Date Palms are dying all over San Diego by the South American palm weevil, started in 2016. Killed hundreds. I see them dying all over the place today.  The crown goes bad fast. It looked like the palm weevil when I saw the symtoms of your crown but I could not be 100% sure. Where did you get the palms? You can read all about the South American Palm Weevil and many don't know that is why these palms are disappearing in San Diego, and they will attack other palms. It's devestating and they are still trying to figure out how to control it

These palms came from south Texas near Zapata

[MJSanDiego]

2 minutes ago, hangtime21 said:

These palms came from south Texas near Zapata

I don't know maybe others can take a look and confirm or surmise. It would have to been infested already when bought is my guess. If it's the palm weevil they are goners for sure.  It's very sad to see these palms dying all over the place here in San Diego. Its devestating

[Silas_Sancona]

21 minutes ago, hangtime21 said:

Hello all,

 

I wanted to share an update on the palm tree. Today, I trimmed off all of the brown fronds I could have access to. I had an arborist come by and they felt it was not fusarium wilt or any other disease, but it definitely looks worse in July than it did in June.

I also discovered, after two windy rain storms this past week, that there is an increasing amount of these maggots(?) present on the ground near the tree. Could these potentially be a pest that is taking up home in the desiccated palm fronds or trunk somewhere? 

 

Maggots = larvae of Flies < Diptera >.. are just consuming dead organic material.. Not hurting the palm.

Whatever caused the damage is what needs to be looked into.  Maggots are just a secondary issue ...attracted by the result of the cause.

Unless tested,  the " Arborist " that looked at the really distressed specimen ( and the other of course ) can't tell you  -for certain-  that Fusarium Wilt ..or Lethal Bronzing...  isn't a possibility..

As far as Palm Weevils, Aside from the native Palmetto Weevils there, which can attack Phoenix sps.   the others / specific Rhynchophorus sp  that is currently taking down palms around S.D / other parts of S. Cal has not been observed / reported / recorded from where you are located.. Not yet anyway..  Close enough though.

Regardless, Larvae of either Weevil sp. would be MUCH larger than the lil rat maggots you're seeing. Think fat, long, vanilla colored, waxy looking Caterpillar looking things  vs tiny squirmy Maggots.

Stinks to loose such a massive ..and likely $$$$ specimen.

iNat link to South American Palm Weevil:  https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/304994-Rhynchophorus-palmarum

[MJSanDiego]

Are you sure its maggots? I could be the palm weevil based on pics and symptoms and the larvae you found. Coming up from US/Mexico border. Here is the article and pics about them infestating and killing those palms here. You need to immediately contact the seller about this ASAP if it is the weevil

https://cesandiego.ucanr.edu/Palm-Weevil-Featured-Story/

[MJSanDiego]

2 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Maggots = larvae of Flies < Diptera >.. are just consuming dead organic material.. Not hurting the palm.

Whatever caused the damage is what needs to be looked into.  Maggots are just a secondary issue ...attracted by the result of the cause.

Unless tested,  the " Arborist " that looked at the really distressed specimen ( and the other of course ) can't tell you  -for certain-  that Fusarium Wilt ..or Lethal Bronzing...  isn't a possibility..

As far as Palm Weevils, Aside from the native Palmetto Weevils there, which can attack Phoenix sps.   the others / specific Rhynchophorus sp  that is currently taking down palms around S.D / other parts of S. Cal has not been observed / reported / recorded from where you are located.. Not yet anyway..  Close enough though.

Regardless, Larvae of either Weevil sp. would be MUCH larger than the lil rat maggots you're seeing. Think fat, long, vanilla colored, waxy looking Caterpillar looking things  vs tiny squirmy Maggots.

Stinks to loose such a massive ..and likely $$$$ specimen.

iNat link to South American Palm Weevil:  https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/304994-Rhynchophorus-palmarum

Read this article from here and see pics. This could very well be the weevil. They dont look like maggots to me. This is very serious if it is

https://cesandiego.ucanr.edu/Palm-Weevil-Featured-Story/

[MJSanDiego]

I would be on the side of caution. If those are indeed maggots, the other symptoms of the palm could still be caused by Weevils. Do you see any casings on the ground or anywhere? The crown needs to be inspected. Weevils are hard to detect and when they are it's too late. If it's weevils the seller needs to be contacted immediately as all of his Canary Island Date Palms could be infested. This is too serious to be downplaying this.

https://cesandiego.ucanr.edu/Palm-Weevil-Featured-Story/

[Silas_Sancona]

6 minutes ago, MJSanDiego said:

Read this article from here and see pics. This could very well be the weevil. They dont look like maggots to me. This is very serious if it is

https://cesandiego.ucanr.edu/Palm-Weevil-Featured-Story/

Please consider some basic study of Entomology  

..Very big  ..and easy to distinguish  -without glasses, or a Mag. Glass.... differences between the larvae of Diptera  and Coleoptera.



 

[Silas_Sancona]

6 minutes ago, MJSanDiego said:

I would be on the side of caution. If those are indeed maggots, the other symptoms of the palm could still be caused by Weevils. Do you see any casings on the ground or anywhere? The crown needs to be inspected. I think it's likely weevils and if so the seller needs to be contacted immediately as all of his Canary Island Date Palms could be infested. This is too serious to be downplaying this.

https://cesandiego.ucanr.edu/Palm-Weevil-Featured-Story/

Again, that species has not been recorded there..   Please relax w/ the scare factor.. 

[MJSanDiego]

1 minute ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Please consider some basic study of Entomology  

..Very big  ..and easy to distinguish  -without glasses, or a Mag. Glass.... differences between the larvae of Diptera  and Coleoptera.



 

Alright. Maybe he has maggots and weevils?  Well the OP has all the information at this point. If anything it's good education on weevils. Hopefully it's not weevils and just transplant shock or other fixable issues and the OP will follow up as time progresses 

[hangtime21]

I'm not sure what else to do at this point. Send in frond samples to a laboratory to analyze? I've increased my watering schedule and switched to micro bubblers (the other palms  have been/are doing great). I've also applied 4-2-4 palm food.

 

I'm alright with just waiting for the tree to grow back but at some point I don't want to wait around like an idiot expecting a dying tree to come back.

[MJSanDiego]

8 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Again, that species has not been recorded there..   Please relax w/ the scare factor.. 

You must be kidding. This forum is about helping people, education and possibilities, not scare factor as you say.  So it's not possible this could be the first recorded in that area? That type of thinking is exactly how the spread continues. If it were me I would inspect the crown knowing about weevils. Like I said the OP has more info now and hopefully it's not weevils and he will follow up and it's just transplant shock or other fixable issues.

[Silas_Sancona]

5 minutes ago, MJSanDiego said:

You must be kidding. This forum is about helping people, education and possibilities, not scare factor as you say.  So it's not possible this could be the first recorded in that area? That type of thinking is exactly how the spread continues. If it were me I would inspect the crown knowing about weevils. Like I said the OP has more info now and hopefully it's not weevils and he will follow up and it's just transplant shock or other fixable issues.

Guaranteed..   there are lots  of people ...from those in the Ag -related trades,  to long time entomologists / climatologists w/ advanced, add on degrees in entomology / ecology  on the look out for that species,  among other new arrival beetle / other insect sps  that can potentially damage palms (  ..and / or anything else )   everywhere   

..So no, I'm not kidding..   and ..if  or when... that species does turn up out there ( hopefully not ),  info regarding the " how / where / when and why "   will be publicized  everywhere,   ....much like it was when SAPW  first showed up in Tijuana.  Much like it is when any new " bad " bug is observed within the U.S. ..or elsewhere that particular organism isn't supposed to be.

Saying scary things does not help ..nor educate.. people  -at -all.

Agree that i too would still have the crown looked at ..and a sample of the damaged material sent for lab analysis / photographed insect activity noted sent somewhere for proper  -and educated-  analysis..

..Then go from there...

[MJSanDiego]

10 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Saying scary things does not help ..nor educate.. people  -at -all.

Agree that i too would still have the crown looked at ..and a sample of the damaged material sent for lab analysis / photographed insect activity noted sent somewhere for proper  -and educated-  analysis..

..Then go from there...

I am happy that you agree with me that the crown should be inspected. There is a fine line between being cautious, vs. "saying scary things". as you state.  It is really subjective.  It's now up to the OP to make the final decision on the next course of action on his palm.  I think everyone should read the South American Palm Weevil article I posted from UCCE San Diego, or other articles out there, especially if you have a Canary Island Date Palm. Hundreds here have perished already since 2016.  I see them every day in people's yards where the fronds start at the bottom browning, and people cut them off not knowing the cause, and eventually the crown flattens as it goes up.  Sad