Pritchardia species ID

[Brian]

Several years ago while visiting Floribunda, Jeff gave me a few Pritchardia seeds. I believe they were P. martii but I didn’t label them and can’t remember. I would love to hear your opinions on what species this is.

 

[Hurricanepalms]

Not sure what species, but she’s a beauty. 

[happypalms]

16 minutes ago, Hurricanepalms said:

Not sure what species, but she’s a beauty. 

A guess gaudi Chaudi

[Harry’s Palms]

Reminds me of my Hillebrandi when it was young, nice looking palm. Harry

[Brian]

39 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

Reminds me of my Hillebrandi when it was young, nice looking palm. Harry

Interesting, I do remember that it was a Hawaiian Pritchardia.

 

[Brian]

1 hour ago, Harry’s Palms said:

Reminds me of my Hillebrandi when it was young, nice looking palm. Harry

Nice call. I just compared photos of Pritchardia hillebrandii and that appears to be it.

Thanks!

 

[tim_brissy_13]

4 hours ago, Brian said:

Nice call. I just compared photos of Pritchardia hillebrandii and that appears to be it.

Thanks!

 

At that size I think it will be hard to get a positive ID. That being said, P hillebrandii is usually quite distinctive due to its heavily ruffled fronds rather than flat, kind of like an accordion. Hard to tell from the photo, but I don’t think it’s hillebrandii. Close ups of the abaxial frond surfaces (undersides) will help to narrow down based on the presence or otherwise of lepidia. 

[Tracy]

2 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

At that size I think it will be hard to get a positive ID. That being said, P hillebrandii is usually quite distinctive due to its heavily ruffled fronds rather than flat, kind of like an accordion. Hard to tell from the photo, but I don’t think it’s hillebrandii. Close ups of the abaxial frond surfaces (undersides) will help to narrow down based on the presence or otherwise of lepidia. 

Tim encapsulates my thoughts nicely in his post.

[Matt in OC]

I'd also expect a bit darker shade of green at that size for Hillebrandii.

[Brian]

17 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

At that size I think it will be hard to get a positive ID. That being said, P hillebrandii is usually quite distinctive due to its heavily ruffled fronds rather than flat, kind of like an accordion. Hard to tell from the photo, but I don’t think it’s hillebrandii. Close ups of the abaxial frond surfaces (undersides) will help to narrow down based on the presence or otherwise of lepidia. 

Thanks for the feedback. Here are some photos of the underside and I don’t see any lepidia.

 

[Tracy]

1 hour ago, Brian said:

Thanks for the feedback. Here are some photos of the underside and I don’t see any lepidia.

 

This looks a bit like a Pritchardia beccariana at an early age.  The pleats are relatively tight, the leaves show only a little division at the ends as opposed to the more deeply cut leaves of some other species in the genus.  My P beccariana is to the left of the Cyphophoenix nucele in the photo attached.  Anyone else want to weigh in on my comment?

[quaman58]

I’m guessing beccariana as well..

[tim_brissy_13]

Yep I’d guess P beccariana as well, although again it’s probably hard to make a positive ID. 

[quaman58]

When there's little or no lepidia on the undersides, it at least eliminates some of the species, which is helpful with this genus. The flat, circular leaves certainly point towards beccariana, or possibly schataurii. They look very similar when young. But as others have pointed out, young Pritchardia can be a head scratcher to figure out. Great looking palm regardless!

[Tomas]

Just curious, can anybody find a definition of "lepidia" on Internet?

[Jonathan]

16 minutes ago, Tomas said:

Just curious, can anybody find a definition of "lepidia" on Internet?

No but I just had a quick look and this made me laugh...

https://www.mobot.org/mobot/latindict/keyDetail.aspx?keyWord=lepido

Every possible  combination except lepidia! I did notice that Kew use it their descriptions so it's obviously valid, https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:669294-1/general-information

[Harry’s Palms]

I looked at the description of “distinct parallel lines”, still not sure what that means. My P. Hillebrandii has a whiteish covering on the underside of the petiole and it rubs off when touched. I thought that was what was being referred to. Harry

[Tomas]

53 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

No but I just had a quick look and this made me laugh...

https://www.mobot.org/mobot/latindict/keyDetail.aspx?keyWord=lepido

Every possible  combination except lepidia! I did notice that Kew use it their descriptions so it's obviously valid, https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:669294-1/general-information

Yes, that is it, from Greek, small scale, I had to ask my doughter's boyfriend, he is an expert on Latin and Greek. The botanical definition may be there somwhere, but it is drowned by the deluge of the plant named Lepidium 😁

[Brian]

@Tracy Your Pritchardia beccariana is beautiful! I hope to get mine in the ground soon.

Thanks to everyone for your feedback. @tim_brissy_13 your response was very helpful and helped open my eyes up to plant identification.

[realarch]

I thought I’s throw in a couple of examples of ‘lepida’, or short hairs that can help distinguish different of species  of Pritchardia. 

Here is the abaxial leaf blade of P. beccariana. Even here, lepida seems to vary a bit in density.

Tim

 

[realarch]

Here is P. lanigera, with almost no lepida. 

[realarch]

Here is P. schattaueri, again without hardly any lepida.

Tim

[realarch]

Then there is P. martii, which is heavily covered in lepida. The entire back of the leaf is silver/white. 

It’s a stunning palm.

Tim

[Kim]

10 hours ago, Tomas said:

Just curious, can anybody find a definition of "lepidia" on Internet?

From Missouri Botanical Garden online glossary:

lepidote: of indumentum, made up of scales, c.f. arachnoid, arbuscular, canescent, hirsute, hispid, puberulous, pubescent, sericeous, stellate, strigose, tomentose, villous, see also glabrescent and glabrate, which refer to stages in the loss of these hairs.

I interpret "lepedia" to be the plural noun, and "lepidote" to be the adjective of the condition; to compare, think scales/lepedia vs. scaly/lepidote. But that is my own interpretation and I haven't yet been able to confirm it from a reliable source.
 

Edit: Still searching, not finding lepedia anywhere, even in this extensive glossary:

http://www.mobot.org/mobot/latindict/search_text.aspx  (you must type in "lepidotus" to find variations and historical usage.)

My interpretation of lepedia seems to be non-existent!

 

[Tomas]

9 hours ago, Kim said:

From Missouri Botanical Garden online glossary:

lepidote: of indumentum, made up of scales, c.f. arachnoid, arbuscular, canescent, hirsute, hispid, puberulous, pubescent, sericeous, stellate, strigose, tomentose, villous, see also glabrescent and glabrate, which refer to stages in the loss of these hairs.

I interpret "lepedia" to be the plural noun, and "lepidote" to be the adjective of the condition; to compare, think scales/lepedia vs. scaly/lepidote. But that is my own interpretation and I haven't yet been able to confirm it from a reliable source.
 

Edit: Still searching, not finding lepedia anywhere, even in this extensive glossary:

http://www.mobot.org/mobot/latindict/search_text.aspx  (you must type in "lepidotus" to find variations and historical usage.)

My interpretation of lepedia seems to be non-existent!

 

Here is the etimology for Lepidium, a genera of a plant, from Acta Plantarum, the flora of Italy

ETYMOLOGY Lepidium: [Brassicaceae] from the Greek λεπίδιον lepídion diminutive of λεπίϛ lepís scale (of fish), scale: due to the shape of the siliquettes similar to small scales

Lepidia is the plural

Glad to learn about the MOBOT online glossary, seems to be very good!

Cheers

Tomas

[Kim]

9 hours ago, Tomas said:

Here is the etimology for Lepidium, a genera of a plant, from Acta Plantarum, the flora of Italy

ETYMOLOGY Lepidium: [Brassicaceae] from the Greek λεπίδιον lepídion diminutive of λεπίϛ lepís scale (of fish), scale: due to the shape of the siliquettes similar to small scales

Lepidia is the plural

Glad to learn about the MOBOT online glossary, seems to be very good!

Cheers

Tomas

Thank you Tomas! 

[realarch]

Yes, Thank you! 

After all these years not only have I been spelling the word ‘lepidia’ wrong, I’ve also been mispronouncing it. 

Anyway, I reference the word and meaning describing the lower leaf surface from Hodel’s book, ‘Loulu The Hawaiian Palm’, “…….because of a covering of light-colored, scale like hairs (lepidia: often tan when young, fading to silvery or grayish, sometimes brownish white)”. 

Tim