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Butia ID request

Stefanus

By Stefanus
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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Stefanus Enthusiast

Stefanus

Posted
Posted

Last year june I found a few seeds under the Butia of 1:37 and one of the seeds sprouted. I like to label it but I aint sure which one it is. Can ayone help?

 

  • Like 1
IrishPalm22 Apprentice

IrishPalm22

Posted
Posted

Switzerland looks brilliant 👏😎🌴🌞🗻⛵️

Stefanus Enthusiast

Stefanus

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 6/16/2024 at 9:51 PM, IrishPalm22 said:

Switzerland looks brilliant 👏😎🌴🌞🗻⛵️

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Yes, especially canton Ticino is really nice and alot of palms can be grown there. For sure worth a visit 😉

  • 3 weeks later...
Stefanus Enthusiast

Stefanus

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I have a photo I made myself of this palm, maybe this helps to indentify this palm. Any expert that will give it a try?

 

IMG_8434.JPG

 

  • Like 2
Harry’s Palms Grand Master

Harry’s Palms

Posted
Posted

I am not an expert but that looks like a Butia to me , probably Oderata . I think the true Capitata are smaller trunked. Harry

  • Like 1
Stefanus Enthusiast

Stefanus

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks for your vision on this topic! The seeds were rugby ball shaped by the way, does that exclude any?

Stefanus Enthusiast

Stefanus

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 7/9/2024 at 6:57 PM, Dwarf Fan said:

Looks more like Butia eriospatha to me:

https://palmpedia.net/wiki/Butia_eriospatha

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Thats exactly how I labeled it but I had some doubts because of the silvery color and the shape of the seed (see image below). Reminded me of yatay, but the crown of the palm seemed a bit too small to me.

Knipsel.PNG

Frond-friend42 Veteran

Frond-friend42

Posted
Posted

Butia × jubaea?

Stefanus Enthusiast

Stefanus

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 7/11/2024 at 12:10 AM, Frond-friend42 said:

Butia × jubaea?

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I think the width of the trunk is to small for that, its only approx 2 ft wide.

Frond-friend42 Veteran

Frond-friend42

Posted
Posted

From palmpedia....

Eriospatha is 1-1.5 ft diameter

Odorata is up to 1.5 ft diameter 

Yatay 20 inches.

Maybe Yatay or Yatay x eriospatha. To me it does look like one of those two.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Stefanus Enthusiast

Stefanus

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Yes, thats the conclusion, some uncertainty but Yatay or Eriospatha genes seem most obvious. Thanks for sharing the info! Would be nice if it turns out to be a Yatay x Eriospatha cross! 😁

  • Like 1
Axel Amsterdam Mentor

Axel Amsterdam

Posted
Posted

Hi Stefan, from your picture it seems the flowerspathe has a smooth surface without tomentum. That would rule out eriospatha i believe.

IMG_6814.jpeg

Alberto Grand Master

Alberto

Posted
Posted

My first impression: my well known native B.eriospatha. But for me it's is a bit difficul to differentiate both species on pics without seeing the brown spathe covered with a thick layer of tomentum, that is typical for eriospatha. Seems I see something brown in the middle of the fronds... .

Screenshot_20240719_073924_Chrome.jpg

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Alberto Grand Master

Alberto

Posted
Posted

Some of my " butiás" , the local name ( B. eriospatha) this morning

20240719_074711.jpg

20240719_074737.jpg

  • Like 4

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Stefanus Enthusiast

Stefanus

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 7/19/2024 at 10:03 AM, Axel Amsterdam said:

Hi Stefan, from your picture it seems the flowerspathe has a smooth surface without tomentum. That would rule out eriospatha i believe.

 

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I' have a better resolution zoom in the image below, I see no visible tomentum as in the last image of Alberto

Zoomed-in.PNG

  • Like 2
Jonathan Veteran

Jonathan

Posted
Posted
  On 7/19/2024 at 11:00 AM, Alberto said:

Some of my " butiás" , the local name ( B. eriospatha) this morning

20240719_074711.jpg

20240719_074737.jpg

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Hi Alberto, those are very beautiful eriospathas...I've only got one but will be very happy if it turns out like yours!  

  • Like 1

South Arm, Tasmania, Australia - 42° South

Mild oceanic climate, with coastal exposure.

 

Summer: 12°C (53°F) average min, to 21°C (70°F) average daily max. Up to 40°C (104°F max) rarely.

 

Winter: 6°C (43°F) average min, to 13°C (55°F) average daily max. Down to 0°C (32°F) occasionally, some light frost.

Alberto Grand Master

Alberto

Posted
Posted

For me it is now clear that the butiá is a Butia odorata because of the green spathe. The " brown" I saw were the flowers on this spathe that is opening on the pic with less resolution.

Zoomed-in.PNG.79f1fb4429e796c0719af5b6bc707623.png

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Alberto Grand Master

Alberto

Posted
Posted
  On 7/20/2024 at 10:28 PM, Jonathan said:

Hi Alberto, those are very beautiful eriospathas...I've only got one but will be very happy if it turns out like yours!  

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Wow, that ' s nice. Can you show me a pic of it. Tomorrow I can show you also my survivor L. nitida that needs to go in the ground. ....

  • Like 1

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

swolf Collaborator

swolf

Posted
Posted

Based on the seed size & shape, I vote for Yatay.  Here’s a good pic from on older Palmtalk thread:

image.jpeg.3a1ebdcf5e9a55f2cffdf6d78e52c955.jpeg

  • Like 1
Alberto Grand Master

Alberto

Posted
Posted

My Butia yatay always flowers like this: the inflorescence hanging downwards

20240720_140601.jpg

  • Like 3

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Alberto Grand Master

Alberto

Posted
Posted

If this are Trachycarpus seeds, the size of the butia seed is more compatible with B. odorata. 

Knipsel.PNG.b94d7fa5b86974d6e8f27ca4e1eeda6b.png

  • Like 2

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Stefanus Enthusiast

Stefanus

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 7/21/2024 at 12:02 AM, Alberto said:

If this are Trachycarpus seeds, the size of the butia seed is more compatible with B. odorata. 

 

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Yes they are, so the seed was approximately 2cm wide. Like you say, according to the picture of swolf to small for Yatay. In Palmpedia I found the following picture, the size/shape of these seeds are similar to mine. These are Butia Paraguayensis seeds, but I guess the palm is to large for that. An ordinary Odorata with nice form it is for now ;)

 498px-B_parag_seed_02.jpg.01164c5f2c02b916e3a7f94cf8804488.jpg

  • Upvote 1
Vinc Enthusiast

Vinc

Posted
Posted
  On 7/22/2024 at 8:02 AM, Stefanus said:

I came across this facebook post https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=408265826257832&set=pcb.408269082924173&locale=nl_NL of the same palm called Yatay by @Vinc. In the next image the flower spathe is hanging like yours @Alberto, https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=408265829591165&set=pcb.408269082924173&locale=nl_NL

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Hi Stefanus, it's Butia yatay, I know the person who imported them, there are severel individuals in Brissago planted during the last 10 years :). Seeds might be smaller because they barely get fully ripe (unlike Butia odorata)....

  • Like 2

www.freilandpalmen.ch - Cold-hardy palms in Switzerland and France

Stefanus Enthusiast

Stefanus

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 7/29/2024 at 7:52 PM, Vinc said:

Hi Stefanus, it's Butia yatay, I know the person who imported them, there are severel individuals in Brissago planted during the last 10 years :). Seeds might be smaller because they barely get fully ripe (unlike Butia odorata)....

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