Queen palm in zone 9b

[Victor likes palms]

Hello, I wanted to plant in queen palm in zone 9b bee county. Is there certain varieties that have more cold hardiness than others? Are they very picky on soil conditions? Are they fast growing palms?

[Xenon]

Go ahead and plant whatever you can get, it's not worth looking for a certain variety that may/may not be more cold tolerant. Should handle most of your winters no problem, it's just the freeze once in a few decades that might get them. Very fast growing if you water and fertilize them (any standard palm fert works) but suprisingly hard to kill. Cheap and easily replaceable if they do die. 

 

[Victor likes palms]

Thank you do they have to be planted in full sun?

[SeanK]

They're cheap at the big box stores. Buy two. Plant one in full sun and give the other shade after 3PM. If you were warmer than Z9b, I'd suggest something nicer. 

[Harry’s Palms]

They take full sun at a pretty early stage. If they are shade grown it would help to ease them into thunk slowly . Harry

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, Victor valadez said:

Thank you do they have to be planted in full sun?

full sun is best, remember to water them a lot especially for the first 6 months after you plant. rain is even better (ideally you would plant to take advantage of the wet season). TONS of rain is coming in the next few days, I would plant them ASAP

[Victor likes palms]

Thank yall

[Victor likes palms]

39 minutes ago, SeanK said:

They're cheap at the big box stores. Buy two. Plant one in full sun and give the other shade after 3PM. If you were warmer than Z9b, I'd suggest something nicer. 

Jaja thats barely zone 9b tbh, half my county is 9a

[NBTX11]

Yes, go ahead and plant. You should get a lot of years out of them. The 2021 freeze killed them back in inland South Texas past Kingsville. I saw some big pre-freeze queens in Falfurrias TX and of course all over the Valley. But that was a generational freeze. Plant. 

[MarcusH]

The lifespan of that Queen palm in your area is uncertain.  If it gets 30 years old that would be a miracle but realistically anywhere from less than a year to 20 years. I'm not someone like my other Texas fellows who say go ahead because those Queens get wiped out quite a few times within 40 years otherwise we would have seen Queens in the 1980s and past 2021. By the way some died already during the 2000s . If you don't mind replacing your palm go ahead. 

[NBTX11]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

The lifespan of that Queen palm in your area is uncertain.  If it gets 30 years old that would be a miracle but realistically anywhere from less than a year to 20 years. I'm not someone like my other Texas fellows who say go ahead because those Queens get wiped out quite a few times within 40 years otherwise we would have seen Queens in the 1980s and past 2021. By the way some died already during the 2000s . If you don't mind replacing your palm go ahead. 

Marcus, there are queen palms that survived 2021 in South Texas, north of the valley. I saw several In Falfurrias TX which is an hour north of the valley. I haven’t been to Corpus recently but I bet there’s some there too. In McAllen TX I saw a lot of huge royal palm that had obviously been there a long time. In Donna TX I saw a group of the largest Robusta I’ve ever seen. Easily 100 feet plus and probably more. 120 feet tall?

[ahosey01]

47 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Marcus, there are queen palms that survived 2021 in South Texas, north of the valley. I saw several In Falfurrias TX which is an hour north of the valley. I haven’t been to Corpus recently but I bet there’s some there too. In McAllen TX I saw a lot of huge royal palm that had obviously been there a long time. In Donna TX I saw a group of the largest Robusta I’ve ever seen. Easily 100 feet plus and probably more. 120 feet tall?

Most large foxtails survived 2021.

[MarcusH]

35 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Marcus, there are queen palms that survived 2021 in South Texas, north of the valley. I saw several In Falfurrias TX which is an hour north of the valley. I haven’t been to Corpus recently but I bet there’s some there too. In McAllen TX I saw a lot of huge royal palm that had obviously been there a long time. In Donna TX I saw a group of the largest Robusta I’ve ever seen. Easily 100 feet plus and probably more. 120 feet tall?

The only area where I would tell someone "hey plant it , no worries " is the RGV valley . Even Queens died in Laredo from February winter storm I saw the dead polls when I was there this year.  A few survivors here and there isn’t saying much . That's like talking about age expectations where only a handful of people make it to 100 yrs old. CC almost no survivors.  I had people coming to me a the big box stores when I was looking at Queens telling me I wish I knew before that those aren't hardy .  I was told the same that I'm good but I lost 2 Queens and I'm probably among thousands plus  of others who didn't have good experiences with Queens.  Talking about 20 year old Queen palms isn’t impressive.  The thing is we had a lot of nice palms prior to the freeze but look what's left.  The goal is to plant a palm where nobody has to worry about freezes right?  

[MarcusH]

4 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

Most large foxtails survived 2021.

Where in Brownsville?  That's not helping us up north. How many coconut palms grow in Brownsville?  Comparable to Sarasota? 

[ahosey01]

3 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

Where in Brownsville?  That's not helping us up north. How many coconut palms grow in Brownsville?  Comparable to Sarasota? 

Those all died in 2021 but yes the foxtails are in Brownsville and on the island.  They’re all over.

I believe all coconuts in Sarasota died in 1983.  These things happen.

[ahosey01]

12 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

The only area where I would tell someone "hey plant it , no worries " is the RGV valley . Even Queens died in Laredo from February winter storm I saw the dead polls when I was there this year.  A few survivors here and there isn’t saying much . That's like talking about age expectations where only a handful of people make it to 100 yrs old. CC almost no survivors.  I had people coming to me a the big box stores when I was looking at Queens telling me I wish I knew before that those aren't hardy .  I was told the same that I'm good but I lost 2 Queens and I'm probably among thousands plus  of others who didn't have good experiences with Queens.  Talking about 20 year old Queen palms isn’t impressive.  The thing is we had a lot of nice palms prior to the freeze but look what's left.  The goal is to plant a palm where nobody has to worry about freezes right?  

Also a queen palm lifespan is probably like 30-40 years outside habitat.  They don’t live long normally.  Palms die for lots of reasons.

[Xenon]

Where is the Florida version of Marcus? Don't plant coconuts anywhere north of Ft. Myers or Stuart, the freeze is going to get them...all of the million of them around St. Pete, Cocoa Beach, Vero Beach, etc. Don't plant royals in Orlando or queens in Jacksonville, they all going to die die die. 

Just stick to plastic palms guys, they last forever!!! 

[Xenon]

4 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

Those all died in 2021 but yes the foxtails are in Brownsville and on the island.  They’re all over.

I believe all coconuts in Sarasota died in 1983.  These things happen.

Lots of old foxtails in southern Hidalgo county too. 

Yeah most of the coconuts in Sarasota died from the 80s freezes . People should stop planting them 🤣

[ahosey01]

2 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Where is the Florida version of Marcus? Don't plant coconuts anywhere north of Ft. Myers or Stuart, the freeze is going to get them...all of the million of them around St. Pete, Cocoa Beach, Vero Beach, etc. Don't plant royals in Orlando or queens in Jacksonville, they all going to die die die. 

Just stick to plastic palms guys, they last forever!!! 

Needle palms only until I-4.

[ahosey01]

Just now, Xenon said:

Lots of old foxtails in southern Hidalgo county too. 

Yeah most of the coconuts in Sarasota died from the 80s freezes . People should stop planting them 🤣

One thing I would say is I wish that palm planting was more ingrained in the culture here the way it is in Florida.  You can drop by any regular old nursery there and find something cool - a copernicia or a livistona or something.  Here, it's just not the same.  Would be great if I could just chance across a Syagrus coronata at the local mom and pop shop. lol

[SeanK]

39 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

One thing I would say is I wish that palm planting was more ingrained in the culture here the way it is in Florida.  You can drop by any regular old nursery there and find something cool - a copernicia or a livistona or something.  Here, it's just not the same.  Would be great if I could just chance across a Syagrus coronata at the local mom and pop shop. lol

I have a half-dozen BB stores in a 7 mile radius from my house. Here's what I found. $80 for Bottle palms.

 

[MarcusH]

57 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Lots of old foxtails in southern Hidalgo county too. 

Yeah most of the coconuts in Sarasota died from the 80s freezes . People should stop planting them 🤣

Absolutely those palms are planted on borrowed time in North and Central Florida.  Don't disagree on that. So far most of them are 30 plus years old.  Once cold winter and the devastation will be enormous.  The costs of palm removal goes up to the millions and who's going to pay for it?  Yes that's right the tax payer.  I told you once whatever you plant on your own property is your responsibility not mine .  But if the city or county plans palms that aren't really cold hardy in your area that where we should have a voice.  Plant something that withstands the extreme cold fronds .  I don't know why you always get so offended when people say Queens aren't the best reliable palms in most parts of Texas ( Houston included ) .  You were wrong about the warm winters that you predicted since I'm on palmtalk . Queens didn't really make it that far since 2021. 

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, MarcusH said:

The only area where I would tell someone "hey plant it , no worries " is the RGV valley . Even Queens died in Laredo from February winter storm I saw the dead polls when I was there this year.  A few survivors here and there isn’t saying much . That's like talking about age expectations where only a handful of people make it to 100 yrs old. CC almost no survivors.  I had people coming to me a the big box stores when I was looking at Queens telling me I wish I knew before that those aren't hardy .  I was told the same that I'm good but I lost 2 Queens and I'm probably among thousands plus  of others who didn't have good experiences with Queens.  Talking about 20 year old Queen palms isn’t impressive.  The thing is we had a lot of nice palms prior to the freeze but look what's left.  The goal is to plant a palm where nobody has to worry about freezes right?  

Listen, I don't understand why you are so negative.  You have very little experience growing palms and you post like you know more than those with 20+ years of experience.  If you personally think that you only want to plant palms that are 100% cold hardy - that's fine.  But I can't understand why you would discourage people who have a different planting philosophy based on a few unfortunate cold winters.  Probably 99.5% of members here are willing to "zone push" and you don't seem to care about offending those members with your negativity.  The goal is not to plant only palms where nobody has to worry about freezes but to have a backbone of hardy palms that will survive the harshest of conditions and plant other palms that we hope to grow to maturity even though a bad freeze or bad drought might take it out.  If we care enough about the palm we'll provide freeze protection when necessary.  If one were planting only palms that are marginal and/or a "zone push" that would be a different story.

Have you ever looked at Jeremy's ColdHardinessMasterData spreadsheet?  Let me give you some data from there.  I filtered out all of the data from the state of Texas for ultimate low temperatures BELOW 20° which most people consider the threshold for Syagrus romanzoffiana.  Out of the 23 entries there were only 12 deaths and 11 survivors.  Even in the RGV the lowest it got here in 02/21 was 22° so these reports are well north of the RGV - from Corpus Christi and further north.  There's a lot of hardiness variability within the species - some reports of death at 24°.  It happens.  I'm sorry that your experience with them is poor.  I've read your post previously stating emphatically that Syagrus romanzoffiana is a zone 9b palm.  Now you have extended your "planting zone" for them further south to 9b/10a.  And your comment regarding "20-year-old queen palms isn't impressive."  Do you know how large a queen palm can grow in 20 years?  They can get massive quickly with proper care.  I personally happen to think that queens are more attractive in that timeframe from 1-15 years anyway.  I see a lot of trunking specimens here that tend to get "funky" in their crown at a certain age and their attractiveness begins to decline before they get to 20 years old.  Not to mention all of the messy fruit that you have to deal with multiple times a year with mature specimens.  The original poster is well within zone 9b and shouldn't be discouraged to plant a queen in his location.  Yes, he might experience a rare freeze this winter and kill his palm before it gets established but chances are that he won't.  And, like with all palms, protection should be provided during its first winter in the ground if the temperature gets to about 5°F warmer than a mature, established palm can handle (in this case 25° or lower).  And if he chooses not to protect it and loses it, replacements are easily available for purchase at a pretty low price.

[ahosey01]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

Absolutely those palms are planted on borrowed time in North and Central Florida.  Don't disagree on that. So far most of them are 30 plus years old.  Once cold winter and the devastation will be enormous.  The costs of palm removal goes up to the millions and who's going to pay for it?  Yes that's right the tax payer.  I told you once whatever you plant on your own property is your responsibility not mine .  But if the city or county plans palms that aren't really cold hardy in your area that where we should have a voice.  Plant something that withstands the extreme cold fronds .  I don't know why you always get so offended when people say Queens aren't the best reliable palms in most parts of Texas ( Houston included ) .  You were wrong about the warm winters that you predicted since I'm on palmtalk . Queens didn't really make it that far since 2021. 

You are Dennis Quaid in The Day After Tomorrow. 🤭

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

Absolutely those palms are planted on borrowed time in North and Central Florida.  Don't disagree on that. So far most of them are 30 plus years old.  Once cold winter and the devastation will be enormous.  The costs of palm removal goes up to the millions and who's going to pay for it?  Yes that's right the tax payer.  I told you once whatever you plant on your own property is your responsibility not mine .  But if the city or county plans palms that aren't really cold hardy in your area that where we should have a voice.  Plant something that withstands the extreme cold fronds .  I don't know why you always get so offended when people say Queens aren't the best reliable palms in most parts of Texas ( Houston included ) .  You were wrong about the warm winters that you predicted since I'm on palmtalk . Queens didn't really make it that far since 2021. 

Marcus Marcus we are here to talk about palms and growing palms and being obsessed with palms 🤣 not taxes, the Constitution, or whatever extraneous political topic lol. I just don't understand why you see everything through the lense of the last five years like it's the end all be all. I guess I'll just disregard my 20+ years of living in the Houston Area and everyone else's experience that has been there/TX even longer. Either the entire 31 years prior to 2021 didn't exist or we're all fools 😂. 

You've done the whole can't grow this or that broken record thing in several threads already. Do you just get a rise out of raining on the parade or what? Seems almost like trolling at this point. 

As far as queens go, there's nothing that is super easy and cheap to obtain, easy to grow like queens that fulfills the trunking pinnate palm niche. It's not as simple as substituting a palmetto lol. Some freeze risk is pretty fair trade off imo. So yes, plant more queens in 9b 🤣 This is palmtalk after all, we're here to enable your palm addiction!

[MarcusH]

Oh ,that argument I have 20 plus years of experiences and you rookie don't know nothing.  Seriously?  So someone who has 40 years of driving experience is a better driver than someone who has 10 years experience?  Come on man no need to belittle me .  Discouraging is someone who sweaps facts with data under the carpet .  I had to learn the hard way because I trusted people with "many years of experience " in this forum from climate predictions to Queen cold hardiness.  An absolute fail !! My message is always, " know what you're getting in to "and I'm sure it would save many people a headache at the end.  You guys talk like replacing 20 foot palms is like digging out a Lily Muscari . If your wealthy , never mind , have someone do the job for you,  no big deal but I would assume the vast majority of people who can grow palms aren't that wealthy including myself.  I digged out my two juvenile Queens. Wasn't that much fun .  You live in Texas right?  I'm sure you still see plenty of dead Robustas in 2024 , 3 yrs after the winter storm .  Improves the look of the landscape .  Should have picked Filiferas instead . Here's some data from the Hobby Airport in Houston.  Not the coldest region in Houston.  X for likely dead but not 100 percent since cold hardiness varies from low 20s to mid high 10s .  D stands for severe damage.  I don't see 31 plus years of survival .  Don't you guys want to grow a palm tree and grow old with it without all the worries?  I encourage someone to plant the palm that's right for your climate unless you're someone who's realistic about it that without protection the palm is going to die.  We have plenty of those people on here but that's different.  We on the other hand can grow palms here in Texas we could have a lot more mature palms growing if we choose the right palms.  And by the way me and another member ( less than 5 years of growing palm experience )were the only ones who's done the research about how to determine which mule palm can handle colder temperatures.  There were absolutely no information on palm talk regarding this topic.  Just rookies . And let's be honest have you realized that if you ask something here you get 50 different opinions?  Which one is right ? I believe what I see with my own eyes and I don't see Queen group planting anywhere from San Antonio to Houston and I haven't seen it in 2019 either.  Not like there weren't any but man , the everything is bigger and better mentality in Texas gets is just annoying.  

[Xenon]

40 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

And let's be honest have you realized that if you ask something here you get 50 different opinions?  Which one is right ? I believe what I see with my own eyes and I don't see Queen group planting anywhere from San Antonio to Houston and I haven't seen it in 2019 either.  Not like there weren't any but man , the everything is bigger and better mentality in Texas gets is just annoying.  

 

 

The overwhelming consensus from people who live in/spent lots of time in Houston is that queen palms were common before 2021. Much more so than in San Antonio. Don't need weather charts to know that, seeing is believing right? So many big old queens. The area around NASA alone had tens of thousands of them. But people have told you this time and time again 🤣. I guess we're all crazy and simply imagined these fake palms that don't grow here 😂

Why so bitter about a few exceptionally cold years? Do you blame me for the Arctic blasts? 🤣. We can't predict the weather but we do have long term averages, and the weather trends towards average in the long term. I hope the winters trend more positive (towards average) so you can too haha

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, MarcusH said:

Come on man no need to belittle me .  Discouraging is someone who sweaps facts with data under the carpet . 

No one is trying to belittle you.  However when you say things like "Discouraging is someone who sweeps facts with data under the carpet." and then you immediately do that very thing!  It's discouraging indeed!  Like you are doing with the data that I provided.  Or do you just believe that everyone here on Palmtalk is lying?  Just tone down the discouraging comments.  For your information a good friend of mine here in Texas who used to regularly post here has stopped because of your complaints and negativity.   Your comments might be justified if someone in Dallas wanted to plant only queens in their yard but this isn't the case.

And to further clarify what I stated before I have planted 11 Sabals, 4 mules, 3 Chamaerops, Copernicia alba, Butia odorata, 2 Livistona saribus (green petiole form), decora, chinensis, nitida, Arenga engleri, Chamaedorea radicalis and Nannorrhops richiana in zone 10a.  All of these are hardy to zone 9a (I grew them all in San Antonio except Nannorrhops) and most to 8b or lower.  According to your planting strategy you would stop there which is fine.  Not me.  I chose to also plant Chrysalidocarpus madagascarensis, decaryi, Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, Hyophorbe lagenicaulis, Roystonea regia and Wodyetia bifurcata.  I'm perfectly fine with providing cold protection when necessary but I don't anticipate having to do it often.  Why not?  I will enjoy them while I can even if they don't get to maturity.  Even if February 2021 repeats itself I still have 27 species that won't get significant damage if any.  If someone wants to do the same why discourage them?

[ahosey01]

A lot being said here but really i’m just disappointed nobody thought my Dennis Quaid joke was hilarious.

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, Fusca said:

No one is trying to belittle you.  However when you say things like "Discouraging is someone who sweeps facts with data under the carpet." and then you immediately do that very thing!  It's discouraging indeed!  Like you are doing with the data that I provided.  Or do you just believe that everyone here on Palmtalk is lying?  Just tone down the discouraging comments.  For your information a good friend of mine here in Texas who used to regularly post here has stopped because of your complaints and negativity.   Your comments might be justified if someone in Dallas wanted to plant only queens in their yard but this isn't the case.

And to further clarify what I stated before I have planted 11 Sabals, 4 mules, 3 Chamaerops, Copernicia alba, Butia odorata, 2 Livistona saribus (green petiole form), decora, chinensis, nitida, Arenga engleri, Chamaedorea radicalis and Nannorrhops richiana in zone 10a.  All of these are hardy to zone 9a (I grew them all in San Antonio except Nannorrhops) and most to 8b or lower.  According to your planting strategy you would stop there which is fine.  Not me.  I chose to also plant Chrysalidocarpus madagascarensis, decaryi, Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, Hyophorbe lagenicaulis, Roystonea regia and Wodyetia bifurcata.  I'm perfectly fine with providing cold protection when necessary but I don't anticipate having to do it often.  Why not?  I will enjoy them while I can even if they don't get to maturity.  Even if February 2021 repeats itself I still have 27 species that won't get significant damage if any.  If someone wants to do the same why discourage them?

First of all I normally post many many good positive posts here . While I'm not the type of the guy who believes everything what people say I rather go by what I experience and what I see . Not much into theory . 

Are you talking about the guy with the birds and dead palm trees ?  If so , oh well what can I do he kind of was asking for a discussion.  If it's another person I don't know who you're talking about.  If disagreements here on social media mentally challenges people they shouldn't be on here at all. Every social platform on the internet is full of agreements and disagreements. 

People arguing all the time on here you make it look like I'm the only one lol.  I say it again Queens aren't reliable palms not in Houston not in San Antonio or anywhere we have proof and data from the last 40 years. What's their to talk about?

And Jonathan I was in Houston for a whole month in 2012 and back in 2019. I honestly don't know where the tens of thousands of Queens were.  Here and there that was all . Not like weeds lol. Some areas had more some areas had barely any.  Houston never looked like Los Angeles or Miami lol. 

But anyway I try to be positive.  Hope for better winters . 

 

[Xenon]

18 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

 

And Jonathan I was in Houston for a whole month in 2012 and back in 2019. I honestly don't know where the tens of thousands of Queens were.  Here and there that was all . Not like weeds lol. Some areas had more some areas had barely any.  Houston never looked like Los Angeles or Miami lol. 

But anyway I try to be positive.  Hope for better winters . 

 

Oh I mean just tens of thousands just in this red circle🤣....not including anywhere else in Houston (central, west, southwest, etc or Galveston with thousands of queens alone...it's a metro area of 7+ million people after all).  And there you go again with "I didn't see this", "I didn't see that"...'cause everyone else's lived experience is invalid hahaha. Regardless whether you believe me or not, reality is reality lol

Drove past sights like this all the time and didn't bat an eye, guess we took them for granted! 

 

[Xenon]

39 minutes ago, MarcusH said:

 

Are you talking about the guy with the birds and dead palm trees ?  If so , oh well what can I do he kind of was asking for a discussion.  If it's another person I don't know who you're talking about.  If disagreements here on social media mentally challenges people they shouldn't be on here at all. Every social platform on the internet is full of agreements and disagreements. 

Palmtalk is a hobby forum not just another toxic social media platform...many of us come here to avoid said social media. It's a pretty small circle and much more personal, it's bad karma to constantly push people's buttons imo. It's also not really the place to have discussion constantly veer into politics, ethics, and other controversial topics....it's written in the forum guidelines. 

[NBTX11]

3 hours ago, Xenon said:

Much more so than in San Antonio.

There were a fair share of big queen palms in San Antonio, too. My neighbor 4 or 5 houses down had about 10 25-30 foot queen palms in his yard. They thrived for years. 

[Harry’s Palms]

I know nothing about growing palms in Texas but here they are very hardy palms. We rarely get frost but when we do it is only brief periods. I am on a south facing hill with really good air flow so no frost around my palms. I planted queens initially to get a canopy for my other palms and they did a good job. I water a lot and they stay nice and dark green year round. I would add that the inflorescence is very messy on them , that’s the only negative. Mine are now about 30 years old and going strong. I now have some volunteers popping up. Harry

[NBTX11]

I’ll say it again. I saw a lot of surviving queens in Falfurrias TX. I saw no dead ones. Maybe they had been cut down?  This location is a full hour drive time north of northern parts of the valley, and probably closer to 2 hours to Brownsville. It’s also inland and away from any bodies of water. By the way, this seemed like a really nice town if someone wanted to move to a palm friendly town in south Texas  

[LowDesertBoil]

Mule palms I believe have a better freeze threshold. They are a queen hybrid.

 

[MarcusH]

8 hours ago, Xenon said:

Palmtalk is a hobby forum not just another toxic social media platform...many of us come here to avoid said social media. It's a pretty small circle and much more personal, it's bad karma to constantly push people's buttons imo. It's also not really the place to have discussion constantly veer into politics, ethics, and other controversial topics....it's written in the forum guidelines. 

I wasn't spreading out any hate speech I stick to their guidelines, Jonathan .  You are as much as involved into this discussions prior and now ,as anyone else  here so please don't point fingers at me because not once you couldn't hold your comments back because you don't agree to what I say . Not everyone agrees to what you say vice versa.  We have the right to disagree right ? This isn't cancel culture .  I know what I saw in Houston prior to the freeze and it wasn't anywhere close to what you will find in Los Angeles or Miami or what you make it look like ,no matter how much time you spend on your Google maps just to find a few pictures of " mass group planting of Queens ". Nobody said they weren't.  I'm sure there were plenty , so were in San Antonio,  Corpus Christi and most other regions in the southern part of Texas .  Anyway I listened to your advices when I was pretty new to the palm forum and I ended up digging them out  because the hard freeze killed them . So far every year since 2021 was a Queen killer.  That's reality to me Jonathan.  I'm pretty happy , positive person in person so don't judge the book by its cover like you did all the time yesterday and yes it's a hobby forum like every other.  You are as guilty as everyone else when it comes to start a discussion and you don't really hold your words back so please in future don't give me that toxic social media and guildine nonsense . You're the first one who puts fuel to the fire so let that sink in.  

[Xenon]

5 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

I’ll say it again. I saw a lot of surviving queens in Falfurrias TX. I saw no dead ones. Maybe they had been cut down?  This location is a full hour drive time north of northern parts of the valley, and probably closer to 2 hours to Brownsville. It’s also inland and away from any bodies of water. By the way, this seemed like a really nice town if someone wanted to move to a palm friendly town in south Texas  

 

Saw a huge one at the high school north of there in Bishop 

[SeanK]

19 hours ago, Fusca said:

Listen, I don't understand why you are so negative.  You have very little experience growing palms and you post like you know more than those with 20+ years of experience.  If you personally think that you only want to plant palms that are 100% cold hardy - that's fine.  But I can't understand why you would discourage people who have a different planting philosophy based on a few unfortunate cold winters.  Probably 99.5% of members here are willing to "zone push" and you don't seem to care about offending those members with your negativity.  The goal is not to plant only palms where nobody has to worry about freezes but to have a backbone of hardy palms that will survive the harshest of conditions and plant other palms that we hope to grow to maturity even though a bad freeze or bad drought might take it out.  If we care enough about the palm we'll provide freeze protection when necessary.  If one were planting only palms that are marginal and/or a "zone push" that would be a different story.

Have you ever looked at Jeremy's ColdHardinessMasterData spreadsheet?  Let me give you some data from there.  I filtered out all of the data from the state of Texas for ultimate low temperatures BELOW 20° which most people consider the threshold for Syagrus romanzoffiana.  Out of the 23 entries there were only 12 deaths and 11 survivors.  Even in the RGV the lowest it got here in 02/21 was 22° so these reports are well north of the RGV - from Corpus Christi and further north.  There's a lot of hardiness variability within the species - some reports of death at 24°.  It happens.  I'm sorry that your experience with them is poor.  I've read your post previously stating emphatically that Syagrus romanzoffiana is a zone 9b palm.  Now you have extended your "planting zone" for them further south to 9b/10a.  And your comment regarding "20-year-old queen palms isn't impressive."  Do you know how large a queen palm can grow in 20 years?  They can get massive quickly with proper care.  I personally happen to think that queens are more attractive in that timeframe from 1-15 years anyway.  I see a lot of trunking specimens here that tend to get "funky" in their crown at a certain age and their attractiveness begins to decline before they get to 20 years old.  Not to mention all of the messy fruit that you have to deal with multiple times a year with mature specimens.  The original poster is well within zone 9b and shouldn't be discouraged to plant a queen in his location.  Yes, he might experience a rare freeze this winter and kill his palm before it gets established but chances are that he won't.  And, like with all palms, protection should be provided during its first winter in the ground if the temperature gets to about 5°F warmer than a mature, established palm can handle (in this case 25° or lower).  And if he chooses not to protect it and loses it, replacements are easily available for purchase at a pretty low price.

@MarcusH makes legitimate points. Municipalities have a responsibility to taxpayers and should be conservative with expenditures (plant selections). Everyone below z11 is likely taking some risk and that's an individual decision. 

My belief is that 90% of our gardens should be bulletproof. 10% can be risky but are best reserved for the back yard where neighbors and HOAs don't see protection during the winter. 

As we get older, the desire to protect or remove palms that can't handle a cold winter diminish. 

[MarcusH]

1 hour ago, SeanK said:

@MarcusH makes legitimate points. Municipalities have a responsibility to taxpayers and should be conservative with expenditures (plant selections). Everyone below z11 is likely taking some risk and that's an individual decision. 

My belief is that 90% of our gardens should be bulletproof. 10% can be risky but are best reserved for the back yard where neighbors and HOAs don't see protection during the winter. 

As we get older, the desire to protect or remove palms that can't handle a cold winter diminish. 

Thank you somebody who actually understands what I'm saying.