Species ID help: Livistona chinensis right?

[PalmsInBaltimore]

Hello all, I bought this palm from a nursery last weekend:

It was labeled simply as a “Fan Palm” at the nursery. I’m 80% certain it’s a Chinese fan palm (Livistona chinensis), but it’s also a young plant so I was wondering if it’s possibly something else? Photo of plant above and photo of the stems below (this is my first post so I hope the pics upload correctly):

also, if it is Livistona chinensis are there any species-specific tips I should know for repotting this one. It will live in this part shade corner of the backyard until our nighttime temps get into the low 40s here in Charles village, Baltimore. Right on the cusp of 7b/8a. Would like to move it out of the nursery pot before 4th of July but after this heat wave we’re going through this weekend.

thanks for the help everyone!

PS: Also for any gardeners in Maryland, I really recommend Maryland Flower and Foliage Company in White Marsh. Cash only but good prices this 10-inch plant was only $20.

[PalmatierMeg]

Looks like chinensis. This is a solitary palm so you have a lot of palms crammed into that 3g? pot. They will compete until the weakest die. You could try to separate and pot them separately. Or another way to thin them out is too snip off the smallest stems until you reach the desired number of palms (they will still compete)

Pot them in loose, coarse free draining garden soil such as Kellogg with extra perlite or pumice. Avoid Miracle Gro soils - they monopolize garden center soils and are way overdue for anti-trust action - which are pretty much the same black muck. Also avoid cheap, black dollar store houseplant soils. Do not overwater them or let their pots (lots of drain holes) sit in stagnant water or you risk root rot. Feed them timed pelletized fertilizer (I used 6-6-6 this year as decent fertilizer is expensive and hard to find here). If these are your only potted palms, Nutricote in a shaker works, too. Fertilize in spring and summer but avoid applying in late fall/winter. Always remember: throwing water and fertilizer at an ailing palm is not the cure for all ills.

[Harry’s Palms]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that many L. Chinensis in one pot. These are beautiful as solitary palms but way too large to share space as far as I am concerned. Harry

[PalmsInBaltimore]

13 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Looks like chinensis. This is a solitary palm so you have a lot of palms crammed into that 3g? pot. They will compete until the weakest die. You could try to separate and pot them separately. Or another way to thin them out is too snip off the smallest stems until you reach the desired number of palms (they will still compete)

Pot them in loose, coarse free draining garden soil such as Kellogg with extra perlite or pumice. Avoid Miracle Gro soils - they monopolize garden center soils and are way overdue for anti-trust action - which are pretty much the same black muck. Also avoid cheap, black dollar store houseplant soils. Do not overwater them or let their pots (lots of drain holes) sit in stagnant water or you risk root rot. Feed them timed pelletized fertilizer (I used 6-6-6 this year as decent fertilizer is expensive and hard to find here). If these are your only potted palms, Nutricote in a shaker works, too. Fertilize in spring and summer but avoid applying in late fall/winter. Always remember: throwing water and fertilizer at an ailing palm is not the cure for all ills.

Thanks so much for all the information. I agree with you 100% about miracle grow--terrible product that will kill your plants and does the opposite of what it's should. 

Hmm, I was afraid of it being multiple plants because I'd really rather not mess with untangling them when I repot the clump. I'm fine with them competing and potentially losing a few because these things honestly can grow much bigger than I realized and the ceilings in our house, where it will live from about Oct/Nov--Apr/May, are only so high. But I agree with you; it really does seem like A LOT of them for a fairly small container. 

Haven't applied any fertilizer or plant food yet but I will wait until it is more established after repotting. Soil care noted. I prefer Organic Mechanics Cactus & Succulent Mix for anything that likes fast-draining and coarse, friable soil. 

[PalmsInBaltimore]

6 hours ago, Harry’s Palms said:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that many L. Chinensis in one pot. These are beautiful as solitary palms but way too large to share space as far as I am concerned. Harry

🫤 I am hoping they will grow somewhat slowly here in zone 7, especially if clumped.

If they don't do well closely planted that is extremely helpful to know. Even if they were ok being on top of each other, It sounds like separation would be necessary anyway because there are at least six palms in that pot. Guess I'll be doing that in the next week. I'd rather not just snip them, but on the other hand it was $20 so losing two or three out of six would not be so heartbreaking.

I'm seeing now there's an older thread where someone separated a similarly overpotted clump of them that's also pretty helpful (

)

[Harry’s Palms]

It sounds like you will be able to separated them successfully . For $20 you scored even if only a couple survive. There was also someone who did a similar separation with Caryota palms from a BB store. Harry

[Merlyn]

@PalmsInBaltimore at the size of your Chinensis, it might be pretty tangled up in there.  My guess is you'll end up cutting a few more big roots than I did.  But Chinensis are pretty tough, so if you separate them and replant you should be able to keep most of them alive.  I did that one back in 2019 when I was a palm novice, and it was my first try at ever splitting some apart.  After potting them I kept them in an area with a bit of AM sun but full PM shade from overhead Queen and Bottle palms.  The only one that died from mine was one that was just outside the zone of my daily AM sprinklers.

For a potting mix, I'd do what @PalmatierMeg suggested.  Kellogg Raised Bed and Potting Mix is a decently loose mix, but can be a bit heavy.  I'd do that 50/50 with Perlite or Turface MVP.  If you bought 1 bag of Kellogg and 1 50lb bag of Turface it would make a good fast draining mix.  If you have a Ewing Irrigation near you, they probably sell the 50lb bags of Turface for about $15.  If not, then perlite 50/50 is a good choice too.  For most palms you want a potting mix that retains some water but doesn't stay wet.  So if you've potted up a palm in a 3g pot, pour a couple of gallons of water into it.  Most of the water should drain quickly out of the bottom, and the mixture should stay moist but not mucky.

[PalmsInBaltimore]

I'm erring toward a 50-50 mix of raised bed soil and turface mvp, which I hope I can find at the store. Either that or the organic mechanics catus & succulent mix I typically use for fast-draining soils, which has expanded shale, coir, rice hulls, sand, composted manure, softwood biochar, and earthworm castings (bag doesn't provide the exact breakdown but from looking at it it looks like it's about 40-50% expanded shale, very gravelly appearance) and never turns mucky in my experience, although for outdoor plants in full sun like my olive tree it does dry out completely very fast.

They'll definitely stay in full to mostly shade until they reestablish themselves, whichever ones survive that is. It's been blazing hot here the past week and the only rain in the forecast for this week might not even happen so I definitely will have to pay extra close attention to the soil moisture levels for some time.

[PalmsInBaltimore]

Nine plants. There were nine individuals in the nursery container. 
 

I will say one of the things I like about potted plants is you get the opportunity to see what’s going on underground whenever you repot them. 
 

But this was daunting. Out of the pot the roots looked like this:

i almost decided to give up on separating them because the roots looked like one big tangle. 
 

After about 20 minutes with the hose trying to wash the old soil off and loosen things up, I was able to get the plant to the point where I could wiggle them apart. There was no way to avoid root damage but I tried my best to avoid breaking the large thick taproot-looking roots. 

eventually I separated them:

I potted four of the palms as two doubles and the rest in their own containers. Used a 50-50 mix of organic mechanics cactus soil and potting soil with clay balls at the bottom for drainage and space for root growth. My concern now is I may have needed deeper pots and I think I covered the top roots with too much soil. 

also they are all now extremely top heavy. Not going to mess with them other than watering or maybe staking if they’re unable to support themselves. 

[PalmsInBaltimore]

Update on these:

To recap, I separated an extremely rootbound potted livistona chinensis from a nursery container a week after buying it. There were nine palms crowded in there. I like a good full clump, but this did seem excessive. Tried my best not to damage roots needlessly, especially the tap roots, but it was unavoidable to separate them. Five of those nine went into their own containers, while four of them were potted as doubles in two containers. They were all top-heavy and I staked almost all of them for support. This was on June 23.

Two weeks later, the palms are still adjusting, with varying degrees of shock. Within a week, all but one of them seemed to have stabilized enough in the containers to remove the stakes. I've moved all but one of them from full shade into a spot where they get morning and midday sun and afternoon shade.

Two of them showed almost no signs of stress at all, lost one or two leaves, and started pushing out new growth. I gave these two away to a friend. Should've taken a picture before I did to show just how OK they were after being untangled from their siblings. 

The other seven have lost all or almost all of their old leaves. Nevertheless, they have all stabilized themselves in the container and aren't wobbly, so I think that's a good sign of root growth and adjustment. Out of these seven, the best one has kept two old leaves and is pushing out two new spears, while the worst is still sort of sitting there not sure what to do now and has just one short leaf spear emerging, slowly. That one is still in the shade, and it's the only one I'm remotely worried about.

The emerging spears on all of them remain green, so I'm taking that as a sign that they are eating their old leaves in order to strengthen their roots and push out new growth. 

So, overall, pretty pleased with these. I can definitely see why they are invasive weeds in some places because these roots were seriously disturbed (I did my best, but the roots were like a bowl of spaghetti, just impossible to suss them all apart without damage). I'll post pictures hopefully this month or august once they don't look so sad