Ideal planting location question

[flplantguy]

I need to plant out my redneck palm since it is starting to root out of the 3 gallon i planted it in last fall. In my area its a bit of a stretch for cold hardiness, so i need to find the ideal location to plant it. I also want to keep in mind height over time if it does well and frost possibilities.  What kind of spot would be better for it? I can do full sun to full shade and everything in between, but it would be away from the house for height if it does well over time, so there will be little protection from the elements outside of the trees.  Wind is not terrible but can be bad at the right (west) angle (east winds are blocked completely by my forest i just found out).  Im thinking a spot about 30 feet from the house at the edge of the treeline so it has frost cover from the trees but gets light from the lower winter sun angle. Does anyone have any stories to tell that could help? @Merlyn didnt you say you have/had one that experienced a freeze or two?  Would you plant it again knowing what you know now, and what would you do differently (anyone)?

[D. Morrowii]

I’ve read that the Redneck palm is a little more cold sensitive than the Teddybear palm but its only a degree or so difference in temp. There are probably other things to think about besides temps though. As you mentioned frost is probably a big consideration. I don't have any first hand knowledge but if it were me I would play it safe with the location. I’d try to get it as much sun as possible without losing overhead frost protection and protect it for the first couple of years so it can get established. I also like to buy a couple back ups in case I kill one then I can be ready to try again. Whats you average low over there?  

[kinzyjr]

@flplantguy If Chrysalidocarpus leptocheilos (Teddy Bear) is a 26F-28F palm, a Chrysalidocarpus lastelliana (Redneck Palm) is a 28F-30F palm.  A little difference that ends up being a game-changer in Central Florida.  Both do fine in lake and UHI-modified microclimates from Sanford to Tampa, but it helps to have overhead frost protection and windbreaks to prevent defoliation or bud damage in colder winters.  If you have a way to provide it with both overhead protection and a windbreak, it's worth it as @D. Morrowii has advised.  There are some observations for both in the Cold Hardiness Master Data that are worth checking out:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/61358-0000-cold-hardiness-observation-master-data/?do=findComment&comment=1168867

[flplantguy]

According to the simulated averages my low would be 29, but these past few winters were not typical and i had a 27 (open) to 30 (cover) degree night for the christmas 2022 freeze, and this past winter was above freezing with only one night being below 35 (33 in the open and higher under cover) with the polar vortex.  Neither event was typical so im not sure how a typical winter radiational night goes here.  If the random cold event january 2023 is normal (jan 16 low of 31 and light frost) for the coldest night i would be worried about the frost mostly, because the advective night was above freezing and Brooksville reported 26 at the same time. Mangoes nearby rarely take damage in the open off highway 19 (thanks street view history!) so im hoping an ideal canopy spot will work and keep it happy most winters.  Its still sitting on the potting soil pile until i pick a spot (thats the hardest part lol).

[Merlyn]

@flplantguy I have had mixed experience with most of them, Chrysalidocarpus leptocheilos (Teddy Bear) and Chrysalidocarpus lastelliana (Redneck Palm):

• Chrysalidocarpus leptocheilos (Teddy Bear) - I still have one in the ground, on a relatively high-and-dry area on the East side.  It's fully open to the sky and frost, and seems to be okay so far.  I had 4 small ones die on me, 2 in the ground and 2 in pots.  They were apparently killed by crown rot after a winter freeze.
• Chrysalidocarpus lastelliana (Redneck Palm) - I have two in the ground.  The one on the East side is about 10 feet from the above Leptocheilos, and is doing great.  The other is in the SW corner in a low-ish area and is not happy.  It got burned 2 winters ago in the Christmas 2022 3 day heavy freeze, and has just struggled and stayed yellowish and barely alive ever since.

My gut feel on these is that they prefer a drier spot in the winter, though I have not grown one over about 3 feet tall yet.  I'm hoping that the two on the East side continue to do well.  Frost protection is a good idea, and avoiding a low wet area is probably a good choice too.

[flplantguy]

I was thinking low moisture would be an issue since im dry sand but that sounds like the opposite. I chose a spot a few feet away from a sabal and some oaks that gets a lot of light but also has a bit if overhead cover. I pulled it out of the pot and the bottom was all roots and not particularly moist, so i guess it does well in drier conditions than i was thinking.  It will get late morning through early noontime sun, about 4 to 6 or more hours of direct light until the afternoon in shade.  The leptochielos is up soon along with a bunch of others. I was very surprised at the amount of roots in the pot for a plant that was put in that pot only 6 months ago, so i checked all the plants and i have quite a few to plant or pot up. Im weary of pots larger than 3 gallon for ease of transport so if they get larger than that in the ground they go (except a few special ones).

[RFun]

1 hour ago, flplantguy said:

I was thinking low moisture would be an issue since im dry sand but that sounds like the opposite. I chose a spot a few feet away from a sabal and some oaks that gets a lot of light but also has a bit if overhead cover. I pulled it out of the pot and the bottom was all roots and not particularly moist, so i guess it does well in drier conditions than i was thinking.  It will get late morning through early noontime sun, about 4 to 6 or more hours of direct light until the afternoon in shade.  The leptochielos is up soon along with a bunch of others. I was very surprised at the amount of roots in the pot for a plant that was put in that pot only 6 months ago, so i checked all the plants and i have quite a few to plant or pot up. Im weary of pots larger than 3 gallon for ease of transport so if they get larger than that in the ground they go (except a few special ones).

Sounds like a nice spot under the live oak canopy.  That would be a more ideal spot if you have to put it away from the building.  Italian Cypress or something like it would be ideal for wind protection.  Rocks around the base wouldn't hurt anything either.

[Merlyn]

@flplantguy I'm just guessing on the reason the Lastelliana failed to really "recover" after the freeze.  Sometimes palms just never get back to normal after a freeze, and it's not obvious why.  I had a Caryota Gigas/Obtusa in the front yard that did the same thing, just stayed yellowed and sluggish to grow after a cold front.  The Caryota turned out to be a root rot problem with soil that was too sludgy-rich a foot or so down.  That particular spot had a lot of oak stump grindings mixed into the dirt.  The rear SW bed Lastelliana also has pretty rich soil, which is why I'm guessing it's a correlation and causation.   

I figure that it's easy enough to add a bit of rich organic mulch on top, or add more water if needed, but difficult to keep water out!

[flplantguy]

I planted it last night hoping for rain that was denied today. Found a spear well on its way when the last one just opened a couple weeks ago so heat is a big helper on growth rate.  The sky photo is the view directly overhead into the Palmetto Protector (lol) and the open view to the southeast.  Its heel is pointed away from the other trees and just above ground level, but i may need to add a bit of soil to it.  By the end of summer im hoping to have a decent head of fronds going, and a mild winter after(please?)