What could this be?

[idontknowhatnametuse]

My Acrocomia aculeata is growing pretty fast but yesterday I started noticing that some older frond leaflets started turning brown. My palm currently has 7 fronds and the 4 oldest ones are showing this problem. Leaflets that show this are drying up fast. It starts with yellowing and ends turning brown.

Oldest frond

2nd oldest frond

3rd oldest frond

4th oldest frond

We've been getting a lot of rain lately, could it be getting too much water/sun or is this normal?

[idontknowhatnametuse]

I also noticed it has some spiders living in it because it always has spider webs, maybe the problem is the spiders that could be spider mites?

[idontknowhatnametuse]

Also note: This is happening to leaflets randomly, not in a row. Some leaflets got this problem while others remain completely green. 3 (Almost 4) newest leaves are fine, no yellowing on them. 

Tips are also folding like this

[idontknowhatnametuse]

Bump (Anyone?)

[Harry’s Palms]

I have had leaf fold like that when insects decide to take up residence . As far as browning or yellowing , no idea. The rest of the palm looks ok from what I can see. Harry

[idontknowhatnametuse]

1 hour ago, Harry’s Palms said:

I have had leaf fold like that when insects decide to take up residence . As far as browning or yellowing , no idea. The rest of the palm looks ok from what I can see. Harry

Thanks, the palm itself is growing normally (very fast), these 4 old leaves also got exposed to -2C last winter so maybe they're also weakened by that.

[Harry’s Palms]

That could very well be. Winter does a bit of damage to some of the more sensitive palms and it could take a complete season to correct . I have seen a discoloration on a few of my Pritchardia frond tips after a cold spell and spotting on my Cocothrinax. If your palm is growing at a normal pace and the new growth improves , I think it is fine. I am not familiar with this palm so I don’t know what is expected . We have had higher than normal temps so I am keeping a close eye on my palms . Harry

[idontknowhatnametuse]

3 hours ago, Harry’s Palms said:

That could very well be. Winter does a bit of damage to some of the more sensitive palms and it could take a complete season to correct . I have seen a discoloration on a few of my Pritchardia frond tips after a cold spell and spotting on my Cocothrinax. If your palm is growing at a normal pace and the new growth improves , I think it is fine. I am not familiar with this palm so I don’t know what is expected . We have had higher than normal temps so I am keeping a close eye on my palms . Harry

The yellowing/browning keeps spreading, could this be lethal bronzing? I don't really know all the characteristics of this disease, only that it starts from the older foliage but I'm scared it could be it.

[Fusca]

I don't know if Acrocomia is suspectable to lethal bronzing or fusarium wilt - I haven't seen it listed in any publications.  Hopefully that's not the issue with yours!  If it has been raining a lot lately I believe that would eliminate the possibility of spider mites since they thrive in dry conditions.  I grew aculeata in San Antonio and I don't remember seeing cold damage like that and I believe we saw temperatures below -2C while I had it.  Unfortunately it was killed outright by the ox beetle.    Sorry I don't know what else to share on the subject.

https://texasagriculture.gov/Regulatory-Programs/Plant-Quality/Pest-and-Disease-Alerts/Fusarium-Wilt-Quarantine-Of-Palms

https://texasagriculture.gov/Regulatory-Programs/Plant-Quality/Pest-and-Disease-Alerts/Date-Palm-Lethal-Decline/Texas-Phoenix-Palm-Decline-Information

[idontknowhatnametuse]

17 minutes ago, Fusca said:

I don't know if Acrocomia is suspectable to lethal bronzing or fusarium wilt - I haven't seen it listed in any publications.  Hopefully that's not the issue with yours!  If it has been raining a lot lately I believe that would eliminate the possibility of spider mites since they thrive in dry conditions.  I grew aculeata in San Antonio and I don't remember seeing cold damage like that and I believe we saw temperatures below -2C while I had it.  Unfortunately it was killed outright by the ox beetle.    Sorry I don't know what else to share on the subject.

https://texasagriculture.gov/Regulatory-Programs/Plant-Quality/Pest-and-Disease-Alerts/Fusarium-Wilt-Quarantine-Of-Palms

https://texasagriculture.gov/Regulatory-Programs/Plant-Quality/Pest-and-Disease-Alerts/Date-Palm-Lethal-Decline/Texas-Phoenix-Palm-Decline-Information

 

Yesterday I saw a lot of these insects in the base of my palm as well, I don't know if they do any damage to palms, I saw some snails in there too.

[idontknowhatnametuse]

27 minutes ago, Fusca said:

I don't know if Acrocomia is suspectable to lethal bronzing or fusarium wilt - I haven't seen it listed in any publications.  Hopefully that's not the issue with yours!  If it has been raining a lot lately I believe that would eliminate the possibility of spider mites since they thrive in dry conditions.  I grew aculeata in San Antonio and I don't remember seeing cold damage like that and I believe we saw temperatures below -2C while I had it.  Unfortunately it was killed outright by the ox beetle.    Sorry I don't know what else to share on the subject.

https://texasagriculture.gov/Regulatory-Programs/Plant-Quality/Pest-and-Disease-Alerts/Fusarium-Wilt-Quarantine-Of-Palms

https://texasagriculture.gov/Regulatory-Programs/Plant-Quality/Pest-and-Disease-Alerts/Date-Palm-Lethal-Decline/Texas-Phoenix-Palm-Decline-Information

 

And yes, Acrocomia is in the susceptible list.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/pp163

[Fusca]

5 minutes ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

Yesterday I saw a lot of these insects in the base of my palm as well, I don't know if they do any damage to palms, I saw some snails in there too.

These are earwigs (Dermaptera) and they don't appear to cause any damage to palms although they may congregate in some species.

Which list is that you have, lethal bronzing?  I hate to hear that Acrocomia is on there.  I'm growing an A. totai seedling in a pot and you aren't kidding - they're fast indeed!  I may end up planting it out by the fall if it keeps going at this rate.  I don't recall A. crispa growing nearly this speed as a seedling.

[idontknowhatnametuse]

2 minutes ago, Fusca said:

These are earwigs (Dermaptera) and they don't appear to cause any damage to palms although they may congregate in some species.

Which list is that you have, lethal bronzing?  I hate to hear that Acrocomia is on there.  I'm growing an A. totai seedling in a pot and you aren't kidding - they're fast indeed!  I may end up planting it out by the fall if it keeps going at this rate.  I don't recall A. crispa growing nearly this speed as a seedling.

If this one dies (I hope not because it has been growing really well) I can replace it easily, I also have another Acrocomia in my house sidewalk (Not affected) that is a bit slower and smaller.

[idontknowhatnametuse]

6 minutes ago, Fusca said:

These are earwigs (Dermaptera) and they don't appear to cause any damage to palms although they may congregate in some species.

Which list is that you have, lethal bronzing?  I hate to hear that Acrocomia is on there.  I'm growing an A. totai seedling in a pot and you aren't kidding - they're fast indeed!  I may end up planting it out by the fall if it keeps going at this rate.  I don't recall A. crispa growing nearly this speed as a seedling.

What makes me hope this is not lethal bronzing is that there are no other affected palms in the area, even Phoenix sylvestris which is the most affected species by this in the US thrives here and doesn't get that.

[idontknowhatnametuse]

@Fusca After checking in the internet, I think my palm actually has potassium deficiency, maybe that's also why some leaflets of its newer fronds don't separate correctly as well. I will fertilize it and keep updating on it anyways.

[Fusca]

20 minutes ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

@Fusca After checking in the internet, I think my palm actually has potassium deficiency, maybe that's also why some leaflets of its newer fronds don't separate correctly as well. I will fertilize it and keep updating on it anyways.

Hopefully that's what it is - something fixable!  I don't have a backup.  If something happens to mine I'll have to wait on another seed to germinate!

[Billeb]

On 7/5/2024 at 11:40 AM, idontknowhatnametuse said:

My Acrocomia aculeata is growing pretty fast but yesterday I started noticing that some older frond leaflets started turning brown. My palm currently has 7 fronds and the 4 oldest ones are showing this problem. Leaflets that show this are drying up fast. It starts with yellowing and ends turning brown.

We've been getting a lot of rain lately, could it be getting too much water/sun or is this normal?

Alex, can you tell a little more info about the palm in question? 

-how big is it (looks to be fairly small)

-how long ago was it planted? What soil medium is used? 

-when purchased, was it pulled from a greenhouse?

-what’s the sun exposure?

-irrigation schedule?

To me….it looks like it’s simply acclimating to its current conditions.  “Damage” to older leafs isn’t nearly as big of a concern than to new foliage. 

-dale 

 

[idontknowhatnametuse]

1 hour ago, Billeb said:

Alex, can you tell a little more info about the palm in question? 

-how big is it (looks to be fairly small)

-how long ago was it planted? What soil medium is used? 

-when purchased, was it pulled from a greenhouse?

-what’s the sun exposure?

-irrigation schedule?

To me….it looks like it’s simply acclimating to its current conditions.  “Damage” to older leafs isn’t nearly as big of a concern than to new foliage. 

-dale 

 

-how big is it (looks to be fairly small)

It's about 1 and a half meter tall with its newest fronds, but is in juvenile phase.

-how long ago was it planted? What soil medium is used? 

Spring of 2023 when it was still a small seedling, I planted it in black dirt, peat moss and coco coir.

-when purchased, was it pulled from a greenhouse?

It was germinated by a grower in the state of Tabasco, it was brought to me in a package.

-what’s the sun exposure?

Full sun from 8:30 AM to 1:00PM, partial sun from 1:00 PM to around 6:30 PM

-irrigation schedule?

Depends on how hot the day is, if we get to 39C for a week (for example) I water it every 2 days but normally I water it every 3/4 days.

[Billeb]

Honestly…I think it’ll be fine. The plant is small and being put to the test in a harsh environment. Im not too familiar with that species or your Zone for that matter but a small, newly planted tree being exposed to potentially 39° heat with little shade repreive…..I think it’s asking a lot.
 

I would merely keep doing what you are doing and not get too worried about how the older leafs look. Mark the spear and keep an eye on growth. The tree has to go thru multiple seasons and continue to push new growth to be considered acclimated. 
 

Interested what others think. Possibly with more knowledge of the species. Good luck. 
 

-dale 

[idontknowhatnametuse]

2 hours ago, Billeb said:

Honestly…I think it’ll be fine. The plant is small and being put to the test in a harsh environment. Im not too familiar with that species or your Zone for that matter but a small, newly planted tree being exposed to potentially 39° heat with little shade repreive…..I think it’s asking a lot.
 

I would merely keep doing what you are doing and not get too worried about how the older leafs look. Mark the spear and keep an eye on growth. The tree has to go thru multiple seasons and continue to push new growth to be considered acclimated. 
 

Interested what others think. Possibly with more knowledge of the species. Good luck. 
 

-dale 

Thanks, the spear is growing very fast.

[Nico971]

Don’t know about the coloring. Some spider bend the tip of leafs with their web. 
Just a reminder that these grow fast and I think it’s too close to the wall. 

[idontknowhatnametuse]

15 days later;

Most of the consistently spreading yellowing/browning in leaflets has stopped and dried out.

I'm not sure if this is a phytoplasma disease or a deficiency like potassium but the palm itself seems to be resisting it. The palm comes from Tabasco where both LY and LB are present since unknown times. 

Oldest frond stopped yellowing/browning, seems to be dying of being old or has a deficiency in one tip of the frond.

2nd oldest leaf still has some advancing yellowing but very slowly and drying out.

3rd oldest leaf; the yellowing in most leaflets has stopped advancing and dried out. It does have some yellow spots could be potassium deficiency.

4th oldest frond doesn't have much yellowing and most of it is already dried out. It does have this in the tip but it's not advancing.

spear and newest fronds are okay, no problem with these.

[idontknowhatnametuse]

Update 2 months later:

The disease just keeps progressing. It already reached the newest fronds and these insects (Haplaxius crudus) just don't disappear.

I think it will not make it. The palm is pushing a new frond, I know it wants to live and it's fighting for its life, however, there's no signs that the spear is going to break yet.

If I have to get rid of it it will be very hard for me to get over it because this is my favorite palm. Should I cut all the fronds to prevent other palms from getting infected though?

[Looking Glass]

4 hours ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

Update 2 months later:

The disease just keeps progressing. It already reached the newest fronds and these insects (Haplaxius crudus) just don't disappear.

I think it will not make it. The palm is pushing a new frond, I know it wants to live and it's fighting for its life, however, there's no signs that the spear is going to break yet.

If I have to get rid of it it will be very hard for me to get over it because this is my favorite palm. Should I cut all the fronds to prevent other palms from getting infected though?

 It just looks like physical damage not insects.  You can see this from wind and sun, especially with transplants.   Also, bushing up against a wall, or fence, or tougher palm, will sometimes kill portions of the leaves through physical trauma.  Walls and fences can also cause heat damage from direct sun heating and reflecting.  

Right up against a wall or foundation, you might also get high pH soil issues from concrete, stucco, and construction debris/pollution.  This can bother some palms.   

Overall, I doubt insects are the issue. 

[idontknowhatnametuse]

7 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

 It just looks like physical damage not insects.  You can see this from wind and sun, especially with transplants.   Also, bushing up against a wall, or fence, or tougher palm, will sometimes kill portions of the leaves through physical trauma.  Walls and fences can also cause heat damage from direct sun heating and reflecting.  

Right up against a wall or foundation, you might also get high pH soil issues from concrete, stucco, and construction debris/pollution.  This can bother some palms.   

Overall, I doubt insects are the issue. 

Thing is that we haven't got extreme weather since August. The insects present in my garden are Haplaxius crudus, the vector of lethal bronzing and lethal yellowing. There's hundreds of them and they prefer this palm specifically over all the others. The palm also never showed signs of not liking that spot in the wall. It's actually faster than another Acrocomia that I have growing outside in the sidewalk without any disturbances. My guess is that tropical storm Alberto brought this disease from the Yucatan peninsula and an infected insect ended up in my garden eventually infecting the palm.

[Looking Glass]

3 hours ago, idontknowhatnametuse said:

Thing is that we haven't got extreme weather since August. The insects present in my garden are Haplaxius crudus, the vector of lethal bronzing and lethal yellowing. There's hundreds of them and they prefer this palm specifically over all the others. The palm also never showed signs of not liking that spot in the wall. It's actually faster than another Acrocomia that I have growing outside in the sidewalk without any disturbances. My guess is that tropical storm Alberto brought this disease from the Yucatan peninsula and an infected insect ended up in my garden eventually infecting the palm.

It doesn’t look like lethal bronzing to me.   With that, fronds will turn briefly yellow, then will completely brown and dry.  It looks like you have patches of brown on green leaves.  Lethal bronzing will kill a full size, adult trunking palm quickly, within a few months.   

Here’s a bunch of beat up leaflets on oliviformis in my yard.  A combo of wind and sun damage, and perhaps some old manganese deficiency grown out….

It’s a rough life out there in the real world sometimes.  

 

[idontknowhatnametuse]

6 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

It doesn’t look like lethal bronzing to me.   With that, fronds will turn briefly yellow, then will completely brown and dry.  It looks like you have patches of brown on green leaves.  Lethal bronzing will kill a full size, adult trunking palm quickly, within a few months.   

Here’s a bunch of beat up leaflets on oliviformis in my yard.  A combo of wind and sun damage, and perhaps some old manganese deficiency grown out….

It’s a rough life out there in the real world sometimes.  

 

Do you have any detailed photo of how a frond with lethal bronzing looks? The damage in my Acrocomia looks very different from the damage in your Chambeyronia because the damaged leaflet is a bronze color with yellowing which goes from the tip of the leaflets to the petiole. If it's not lethal bronzing then it could be the disease that we call "Marchitez letal" in latin america, I don't know how lethal bronzing looks in the US, but in Mexico it's called "Marchitez letal", my palm has 3 of these 4 sympthoms of "Marchitez letal", which (I think) is the same as lethal bronzing. See the leaflets in the third photo? that's exactly how the ones in my palm look.

Edit: Phytomonas staheli which is carried by Haplaxius crudus is the cause of "Marchitez letal".

Edited September 12, 2024 by idontknowhatnametuse
A fact