Identifying a hybrid Queen palm Mule

[MJSanDiego]

Hello I could only find general information on this topic online but need more details. I might get heat for saying this but of the thousands of palm species I still believe the Syagrus Romanzoffiana Queen palm is one of the most beautiful and graceful palms IF planting in the proper zone (10a, 10b, 11 only), and no temps much over 85 degrees, watered well as they are not really as drought tolerant as they claim, if you want them to be lush, tropical and graceful. Anyway I bought two babies 1 gallon pots at Home Depot. Planted 2 years ago.  The trunks and the way they have grown are completely different. I even compared with all of the large 15 gallon queens at Home Depot which is about how big they are now. Check out the pics. The first pic is the pure Queen where the old browned and done leaf bases are wide and separating far from the base as the trunk widens. But look at the second pic. I have not even cut one single frond off in 2 years, even the original ones from when I bought it two years ago, as they are firm, attached to trunk, not separating, and thin. The trunk is widening but growing completely different as you can see. I do not believe this is some variant of the pure Queen. I believe this is a Queen palm hybrid with a Pindo (Mule) and I am not happy.  The fronds are also not arching and graceful like the queen but more straight up with a bend at the end. It is super ugly. I've seen mature Mule palms and I do not like them whatsoever. They do not look at all like the pure graceful Queen.  Can anyone confirm if this could be a Mule palm or something else? Thank you, San Diego California USA

[Fusca]

  On 7/9/2024 at 9:36 PM, MJSanDiego said:

Hello I could only find general information on this topic online but need more details. I might get heat for saying this but of the thousands of palm species I still believe the Syagrus Romanzoffiana Queen palm is one of the most beautiful and graceful palms IF planting in the proper zone (10a, 10b, 11 only), and no temps much over 85 degrees, watered well as they are not really as drought tolerant as they claim, if you want them to be lush, tropical and graceful. Anyway I bought two babies 1 gallon pots at Home Depot. Planted 2 years ago.  The trunks and the way they have grown are completely different. I even compared with all of the large 15 gallon queens at Home Depot which is about how big they are now. Check out the pics. The first pic is the pure Queen where the old browned and done leaf bases are wide and separating far from the base as the trunk widens. But look at the second pic. I have not even cut one single frond off in 2 years, even the original ones from when I bought it two years ago, as they are firm, attached to trunk, not separating, and thin. The trunk is widening but growing completely different as you can see. I do not believe this is some variant of the pure Queen. I believe this is a Queen palm hybrid with a Pindo (Mule) and I am not happy.  The fronds are also not arching and graceful like the queen but more straight up with a bend at the end. It is super ugly. I've seen mature Mule palms and I do not like them whatsoever. They do not look at all like the pure graceful Queen.  Can anyone confirm if this could be a Mule palm or something else? Thank you, San Diego California USA

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Do you have photos of the entire palm (both palms)?  Just from the photos you posted of the trunks they both look like regular queens.  Some grow more vertical first while others work on a thicker trunk before going vertical.  Syagrus romanzoffiana are somewhat variable within the species so you might see differences between them.  There's one type of a possible hybrid labeled 'abreojos' that has a different look.  It's possible that one of yours is a hybrid but I don't see any evidence of that.

https://palmpedia.net/wiki/Syagrus_sp._'Abreojos'

 

[SeanK]

Very glad you are happy with those queens. I suggest you reach out to the local IPS affiliate, 

Folks there can help you select many species of palms appropriate for San Diego. Queens are often chosen by newbies as they are inexpensive yet pinnate and fast growing. You have an opportunity to grow much more.

 

[MJSanDiego]

If taken care of, and grown in the right zone, not too hot and not too cold, mild no wind, they are still one of the most gorgeous species in the world. Even though not self cleaning, messy heavy seed pods, etc. I have researched many palms over many years, none that home depot carries. Syagrus romanzoffiana is simply an elegant graceful beauty that stands the test of time!!!

[howfam]

  On 7/9/2024 at 10:25 PM, Fusca said:

Do you have photos of the entire palm (both palms)?  Just from the photos you posted of the trunks they both look like regular queens.  Some grow more vertical first while others work on a thicker trunk before going vertical.  Syagrus romanzoffiana are somewhat variable within the species so you might see differences between them.  There's one type of a possible hybrid labeled 'abreojos' that has a different look.  It's possible that one of yours is a hybrid but I don't see any evidence of that.

https://palmpedia.net/wiki/Syagrus_sp._'Abreojos'

 

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Thanks for posting the article on Abreojos. It is a true beauty and the more I look at it, the more it looks to me like Syagrus sancona, the Colombian Foxtail palm.  Maybe a cross. Thoughts?

[MJSanDiego]

  On 7/10/2024 at 12:53 AM, SeanK said:

Very glad you are happy with those queens. I suggest you reach out to the local IPS affiliate, 

Folks there can help you select many species of palms appropriate for San Diego. Queens are often chosen by newbies as they are inexpensive yet pinnate and fast growing. You have an opportunity to grow much more.

 

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Thanks. You may be shocked but I am not a newbie. After 20 years of palm enthusiasm I go back to Syagrus Romanzoffiana. It's just so stately and the way the fronds sway in the breeze is hard to imitate with other species. As far as other common species, I like Foxtail. I do not like any variety of Kings but you see those everywhere here.  Many rare exotic tropical species that can all grow here, don't really look good IMO

[MJSanDiego]

  On 7/9/2024 at 10:25 PM, Fusca said:

Do you have photos of the entire palm (both palms)?  Just from the photos you posted of the trunks they both look like regular queens.  Some grow more vertical first while others work on a thicker trunk before going vertical.  Syagrus romanzoffiana are somewhat variable within the species so you might see differences between them.  There's one type of a possible hybrid labeled 'abreojos' that has a different look.  It's possible that one of yours is a hybrid but I don't see any evidence of that.

https://palmpedia.net/wiki/Syagrus_sp._'Abreojos'

 

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@Fusca @JLM sorry for the delay. I finally have pics today. These were planted as 1 gallon babies 1.5 years ago so they are on their second season.  Don't laugh at me lol. As a palm enthusiast for 22 years, the first pic is what I know as a true Queen that I am used to seeing and growing for decades. Arching fronds, trunk widening with the old boots at the base separating away from the trunk, trunk twisting, old fronds browning out when done, etc. The second pic planted at the same time is not like any Queen I have ever seen. It's like an ugly weed. Trunk completely different. Not one frond even turned brown to cut off yet  Not much arching in the fronds, kind of always straight up. No twisting characteristic of the trunk. Small thin boots firmly and tighly attached. The trunk base reminds me of a pindo palm. And hope you can tell in the pics but it has a super dark green canopy, without any fertilizing. Whereas the first one is more of a brighter green, and I have to fertilize which has always been my experience with Queens. The dark green weed looks like it could be a Mule (Pindo x Syragus) or maybe the 'Abreojos' you mentioned?. What do you all think? Thank you all for your assistance 

[JLM]

  On 7/22/2024 at 9:32 PM, MJSanDiego said:

@Fusca @JLM sorry for the delay. I finally have pics today. These were planted as 1 gallon babies 1.5 years ago so they are on their second season.  Don't laugh at me lol. As a palm enthusiast for 22 years, the first pic is what I know as a true Queen that I am used to seeing and growing for decades. Arching fronds, trunk widening with the old boots at the base separating away from the trunk, trunk twisting, old fronds browning out when done, etc. The second pic planted at the same time is not like any Queen I have ever seen. It's like an ugly weed. Trunk completely different. Not one frond even turned brown to cut off yet  Not much arching in the fronds, kind of always straight up. No twisting characteristic of the trunk. Small thin boots firmly and tighly attached. The trunk base reminds me of a pindo palm. And hope you can tell in the pics but it has a super dark green canopy, without any fertilizing. Whereas the first one is more of a brighter green, and I have to fertilize which has always been my experience with Queens. The dark green weed looks like it could be a Mule (Pindo x Syragus) or maybe the 'Abreojos' you mentioned?. What do you all think? Thank you all for your assistance 

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Both look normal to me. Not all queens will look exactly the same, there’s gonna be some natural variability. Both palms look happy and healthy, and as a result they both look very good.

[MJSanDiego]

  On 7/22/2024 at 9:46 PM, JLM said:

Both look normal to me. Not all queens will look exactly the same, there’s gonna be some natural variability. Both palms look happy and healthy, and as a result they both look very good.

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I forgot to mention. Even the fibers (strings) in the crown area are different. The one I call the true Queen has brown fibers where's the other one is white. They just look so completely different I've never seen a Queen look like that. The base is so pindo like that it's freaking me out

[MJSanDiego]

@JLM did you also preview the close up pics above of the trunks?

[Fusca]

@MJSanDiego, I'm with @JLM - they both look like queens I have seen for sale in Texas.  I understand the differences that you are seeing.  There's always some variation in what I have seen for sale here in the past 24 years.  It's possible that what you see in California is less variable than what is grown in Florida.  The vast majority of the queens (and all that are sold in the big box stores) here are shipped in from Florida.  The most unusual queen that I have ever seen was at a local Home Depot about 6 months ago which was almost completely purple trunked rather than green.  Looked completely normal otherwise.  I looked up some old threads and found a couple of members in California who had similar queens so not as rare as I had thought.

[JLM]

  On 7/22/2024 at 9:57 PM, MJSanDiego said:

I forgot to mention. Even the fibers (strings) in the crown area are different. The one I call the true Queen has brown fibers where's the other one is white. They just look so completely different I've never seen a Queen look like that. The base is so pindo like that it's freaking me out

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There is nothing pindo about either of those palms.

The queen in my front yard had/has fibers much like the fibers on the palm you question. I can assure you that it is a queen palm. Natural variability exists, and youre seeing it first hand. I am also seeing it first hand, not only by the growth rate of my queens but also the way their trunks look (one skinner than the other), one having more fibers than the other, their cold tolerance, etc

[MJSanDiego]

  On 7/23/2024 at 12:51 AM, Fusca said:

@MJSanDiego, I'm with @JLM - they both look like queens I have seen for sale in Texas.  I understand the differences that you are seeing.  There's always some variation in what I have seen for sale here in the past 24 years.  It's possible that what you see in California is less variable than what is grown in Florida.  The vast majority of the queens (and all that are sold in the big box stores) here are shipped in from Florida.  The most unusual queen that I have ever seen was at a local Home Depot about 6 months ago which was almost completely purple trunked rather than green.  Looked completely normal otherwise.  I looked up some old threads and found a couple of members in California who had similar queens so not as rare as I had thought.

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@Fusca @JLM. Ok guys thanks. The palms sold at Home Depot here are grown locally in North San Diego County in San Marcos, Vista and Fallbrook.  So over time is the one I refer to as a weed going to start looking like the other one? Or at least prettier? Or am I stuck with this variation Queen that won't be graceful and pretty as I am used to? I am a bit bummed I don't even like the look of the trunk but hate to rip it out and start over