Palm enthusiast for 22 years and yes the Queen too

[MJSanDiego]

Palm enthusiast for 22 years here. I think we should love all palms. They all have a place.... but in the right place! I see all sorts of bashing of Syagrus Romanzoffiana (Queen Palm) and just had to address this overly saturated but misunderstood palm thanks to places like Home Depot. I always go back to Syagrus Romanzoffiana, yep. Sounds odd. But I dare you to find a palm species that can imitate the exact swaying of the fronds in our calm breezes and so stately, yet graceful. This beauty native to Brazil, Argentina and maybe some other places, is simply the best which is why it is saturated.  Yes, super messy heavy seed pods, not self cleaning. If people would be more prepared to take care of them properly, and plant them in the right place and not 3 feet from their house, they are one of the most beautiful palms that stand the test of time. I see all sorts of Syagrus Romanzoffiana issues and bashing but then I look at their zones. 8b? 9a? 9b? People trying all crazy things because they sell them at various Home Depots and Lowes even in the High Desert,  zone 8a!! What?? 10a + only for these palms. They are not cold hardy, not desert plants and don't like temps over 85, like average humidity only (50%), and certainly not drought tolerant as marketed, if you want them to flourish and look amazing. Yes they need supplemental ferrtilizer but what palm doesnt. You should not be ashamed if you are an enthusiast but still love the Queen. And this palm will thrive in clay soil btw. Long live the stately, elegant, graceful queen! I bet there are many Queen lovers out there so I would love to hear from you! Lets get the Queen back where it should be, and that is respected. Thank you very much

[Billeb]

Can’t do it. There is just too many negatives about Queens that make it not worth using them. 
 

I do agree they can be good looking but there is so many options for us here in Southern California, Syagrus is pushed down the list pretty far. 
 

I love Queen palms…..in my neighbors yard across the street, not mine. 
 

-dale 

[awkonradi]

I think properly watered and fertilized queen palms are beautiful.  Here's one in Capitola.

[quaman58]

They're definitely popular for a reason. Well-watered and fertilized ones are graceful and beautiful. My biggest complaint is that they're root systems, especially in enclosed areas, make growing things near them next to impossible. Many palms we love to grow need always available moisture to tap into, coming from areas with lots of precipitation. Queens are in the category of "they can find water wherever it is", which makes mixing the species very tough. At one time, I had 9. I'm down to one now...

[idontknowhatnametuse]

I have two that protect smaller palms from wind, freezes, etc and they look great, very plumose.

[MJSanDiego]

Thank you for the Capitola Queen pic earlier. Majestic. Thick trunk! Take a look at these Queens, here in San Diego, of all places near Home Depot, in a Ross and Dollar Store parking lot. Gorgeous, graceful and stately!! Yes be careful in residential yards. I only recommend one in an average 6500 sq ft city

[Fusca]

@MJSanDiego, I agree with most of your points.  Queen palms are pretty popular here in humid deep South Texas, although not nearly as common as Washingtonia.  We are regularly over 85°F from late February to November and this year we've already had high temps over 100° a dozen times and the queens don't blink.  Most around here look quite good although there's always exceptions.  In optimal soils like we have they can tolerate drought pretty well in relatively short duration but yes, without irrigation and fertilizer in poor soils they look terrible.  I have 3 planted along with 4 standard mules.  I have always liked this one from Orlando, FL.

[MJSanDiego]

Just now, Fusca said:

@MJSanDiego, I agree with most of your points.  Queen palms are pretty popular here in humid deep South Texas, although not nearly as common as Washingtonia.  We are regularly over 85°F from late February to November and this year we've already had high temps over 100° a dozen times and the queens don't blink.  Most around here look quite good although there's always exceptions.  In optimal soils like we have they can tolerate drought pretty well in relatively short duration but yes, without irrigation and fertilizer in poor soils they look terrible.  I have 3 planted along with 4 standard mules.  I have always liked this one from Orlando, FL.

Gorgeous, love it, thank you!  You bring up some good points. They are pretty versatile once established and can handle heat over 85 and humidity. Where they suffer, like any tropical palm, is dry heat. They keep trying to plant them in places like Palm Springs where its over 100 degrees all summer with low humidity and they have these short fronds until they perish max 10 years.

[aabell]

I don't hate queen palms as a species - as you said, every palm has its place and in the right climate it's a nice plant. I've even seen some nice ones here, if someone is fertilizing and watering them. 

But the average SW Florida queen palm is a truly pathetic, ugly specimen and probably just about the last thing I would ever plant. When you've got royals, foxtails, coconuts, veitchia, and so many other pinnate species as options there's no reason that queens should ever be planted here and yet I see them installed in front of new development all the time. 

[MJSanDiego]

1 minute ago, aabell said:

I don't hate queen palms as a species - as you said, every palm has its place and in the right climate it's a nice plant. I've even seen some nice ones here, if someone is fertilizing and watering them. 

But the average SW Florida queen palm is a truly pathetic, ugly specimen and probably just about the last thing I would ever plant. When you've got royals, foxtails, coconuts, veitchia, and so many other pinnate species as options there's no reason that queens should ever be planted here and yet I see them installed in front of new development all the time. 

OMG those are horrendous!! Severely neglected! When they look bad like that it is just a shame. I think developers plant them because they are readily available and inexpensive. I like foxtails too. I have two in clay soil so far so good. Look at these beauty Queens here in San Diego.....

[MJSanDiego]

1 hour ago, quaman58 said:

They're definitely popular for a reason. Well-watered and fertilized ones are graceful and beautiful. My biggest complaint is that they're root systems, especially in enclosed areas, make growing things near them next to impossible. Many palms we love to grow need always available moisture to tap into, coming from areas with lots of precipitation. Queens are in the category of "they can find water wherever it is", which makes mixing the species very tough. At one time, I had 9. I'm down to one now...

Great points. I only recommend one in the average city residential lot. I see some homeowners plant multiple in a row 6 feet apart on a standard suburban lot. Insanity. In a few years it will be down to one! Water well and frequenly like its native habitat and the root ball won't go far. They do require some pretty major upkeep like anything but if willing they are also great for commercial areas as in my pic here, totally ubiquitous, everywhere you turn your head. I noticed the Queens often look better in the commercial areas than many homeowner lots!

[sonoranfans]

Reality from my own experiences with queens and those of others leads me to not recommend them to those new to palms or to those who are unwilling to pamper them properly..  The roughest looking palms in my area are -by far- queen palms.  The sandy soil with fertilizer and water needs means they are almost always deficient or on the edge of deficiency  I guess it depends on where you grow them and what your options are.  If I was limited to 9a and had better soil I would probably have several.  But in my climate, roystonea regia is a far easier palm to grow and require only modest fertilizer to look nice and green.  When some less experienced poster asks what palms they should grow, I will let them know when a palm is a fertilizer pig or likes sandy soil or clay etc.  I just hope they have the success growing the palm to enjoy the hobby.  Some will grow queens anyway and that is fine.  But when I ask what I would want to know as someone new to palms, I would want to be successful growing them first, then try more difficult species.   

[SubTropicRay]

30 year palm enthusiast here.  I love mine and have no room for palm snobbery.  They serve their purpose and are fine for the beginner and folks in "iffy" climates (like mine).  When properly maintained, they look incredible.  The fact they've been in cultivation for over a century means they're old hat, been there done that etc.   The lack of attention they get after being installed makes them even less attractive and gives them a bad image.  Just keep in mind that in marginal climates, it's likely the only pinnate palm that will be standing after the next arctic front of the "century" clears the landscape.  Reality check:  LOTS more of of us fall in that category than we want to admit.

 

[SeanK]

Majority of Queens and robustas I've seen look B-A-D.  I'm talking over a 25 year span across both coasts and through the mid country.

I can see Queens in z9b or pushed in z9a. I understand robustas grown in z9a or pushed in z8b. But given a climate to grow so much more, I have to ask "Why not?"

For that reason, I will always recommend someone meet the local IPS affiliate. Talk to members, visit gardens. See what is possible in San Jose or Lakeland. Don't always reach for the cheap and easy.

[MJSanDiego]

@SeanK you are not looking in the right places where this species thrives. USA is a big place. You can try to push the zones but they do best where temps never go lower than 40 nor above 90. In their native habitat its 60 to 85 degrees year round.  And they dont appreciate high winds or super low humidity. This is why I brought up this topic. This palm is misunderstood thanks to big box stores and other. Come to San Diego where Queens are the most ubiquitous of any city in the USA and most all look perfect. Look at these beauties, I posted this pic a few times. Nothing can imitate their graceful elegant presence. These fronds sway in the calm breezes like no other species

[Jim in Los Altos]

Queen palms are definitely plentiful in my area. They’re used commercially more than any other. Most look quite healthy even when growing in small planting areas over the hot asphalt parking lots. These in the photos below are about two miles from my property at Foothill Crossings Shopping Center. They look really pretty at night when lights are shining on them. The photo below them is of one of the seven Queens in my landscape. I originally planted the Queens as canopy to protect shade loving palms beneath them. That’s worked but falling fronds and heavy boots and sheaths also damage tender plants below unfortunately. I began planting Archontophoenix in groves a few years later and they became MUCH better canopy palms. Their falling fronds are lightweight and never damage anything below when they fall to the ground and I think they are more attractive and less demanding than Queens. My Queen palms are here to stay now that they are massive and I do still appreciate their presence in the garden despite their being so common.
 

 

 

Queen in center

Some of the King palms 

 

[Harry’s Palms]

When I bought our new house 27 years ago I was coming from a house where I had many potted palms from my big greenhouse and shade house. The developer had planted young trees and the typical landscaping including sod. I brought some pretty good sized Queen palms with me from my old house as I knew I needed shade …FAST! They did just that , creating a decent canopy in a short period of time . They look great year round , nice , full , dark green plumose fronds . The bad side is the inflorescence. The mess is something I have to deal with but worth the canopy. I have planted many varieties of palms in between the Queens and they seem to share the garden well. When I put a pathway down the side of my house , I had to cut the roots quite aggressively to lay the sand and pavers. It did nothing to the palms even though I had a ton of roots that I removed. If I had it to do over , knowing what I know now , I may have made a different choice but I’m not sure what would have provided shade so quickly and I did not have the budget to bring in large specimens of palms. My Archontophoenix are nicer palms but not quite as fast in my area and not as large of canopy until they get much older (like now) . HarryThis shade is helpful for some of the other palms on the west side of my house . The only palm that grows as fast as the Queens is the Caryota Urens in the center of the picture. It doesn’t have near the size of crown AND it will soon have to be removed , once it flowers.

[Harry’s Palms]

@Jim in Los Altos and I must have been posting at the same time . Nice one Jim! 😂

[MJSanDiego]

@Jim in Los AltosHi Jim I have seen your posts raving King palms and had a feeling we would cross paths eventually! I always enjoy your pics! Thank you! It's great you still appreciate your Queens. I still admire Queens more than the King palms even with all of their maintenance woes. I can never get tired of their grace and elegance. We see plenty of King palms around here though. I had bad luck with them in my clay soil. I planted seven this past October from Home Depot, small 1 gallon pots. I watered everyday to every other day as you say you can't overwater them. Only one took off with 2 new spears throughout the winter months, nice!!  The rest did nothing or grew one spear and then went limp.  I dug them up to investigate. One had pink powder at the base so I guess pink rot. The others had plenty of black mushy roots so root rot, but some roots were okay. From a Home Depot root bound pot grown in potting soil and probably greenhouse grown to clay and full sun is quite the harsh adjustment!

[Jadd Correia]

I think queens are amazing palms in the correct location and grown well. Here is a really nice planting in West Oakland, CA at Adeline and 30th street. Up against the lighter colored building I think they really pop. I can't imagine they are getting much water and attention at this location, but they still look good. For the record, I have also seen horribly grown queens that are painful to look at. 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

The good ol Queen palm , you either love em or hate em. Here in 9a South Houston there definitely not a long term palm. You could get some good years out of them and they grow fast here but will eventually die when we hit the teens. I will eventually plant a couple since I grew them from seed. Growing up in SoCal Queens were definitely played out and hardly taken care of. With the ability to grow so much more, queens just don't seem to be worth the space. Now living in 9a seems to be more of a challenge and very rare to see mature ones. Of all places a nursery in Kihei Maui had a grove of them and they were spectacular. Definitely rare in Maui , so kinda cool again haha. Pic below of course is sideways smh

T J 

[rizla023]

I love syagrus. I only have 1 queen palm but I have sancona, coco queen, schizophylla, picrophylla, and pseudococos. I think there are many options for SoCal, doesn’t mean queens don’t deserve appreciation. I also think any palm can look poor if not properly cared for. I’ve seen sickly kings just as often as the queens. Exceptionally cared for queens are very stately.

[Phoenikakias]

37 minutes ago, rizla023 said:

I love syagrus. I only have 1 queen palm but I have sancona, coco queen, schizophylla, picrophylla, and pseudococos. I think there are many options for SoCal, doesn’t mean queens don’t deserve appreciation. I also think any palm can look poor if not properly cared for. I’ve seen sickly kings just as often as the queens. Exceptionally cared for queens are very stately.

I would love seeing pictures of your Syagrus collection...

[Phoenikakias]

I do not think queens mind hotter temps as long as they are planted in the ground and receivecthe proper amount of water. They do not mind clay soil either, as long as it is not alkaline and fertilizing does not lead to a high salt concentration. Anyway clay soil has the best capacity of holding nutrients. In my area the most common mistake in the cultivation of the sp is the high pH. Queens need water during hot weather, only more tap water means more iron deficiency symptoms in alkaline soul. People misinterpret the subdequent yellowing as general nutrient deficiency trying to cope with by applying more inapropriate fertilizer (oxide forms of the various elements and edta chelates of te). That makes situation even worse up to dramatic level, because it increases salt concentration, leading to more watering and thus to more intense iron deficiency. It is a vicious circle due to ignorance about pH requirements.

[NorCalWill]

Yeah, Queen palms can be nice and not nice, but to each their own...

[PalmCode]

They are nice looking, solid growing palms in the right place and If you love them then thats great. As said, Mature palms do require maintenance and can drop heavy frond bases and seed parts that can destroy smaller plants or other property.  

I'm not sure how many here have felled there own mature queens but I just did my 2nd tallest and have more big queen to go.[ hard risky  work] ....Planted in the early 2000's... Probably not what most people agree with, or like to see. I'm not bashing queens at all but sometimes in palm growing youve got to fix your own mistakes. 

 

 

[sonoranfans]

9 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

I do not think queens mind hotter temps as long as they are planted in the ground and receivecthe proper amount of water. They do not mind clay soil either, as long as it is not alkaline and fertilizing does not lead to a high salt concentration. Anyway clay soil has the best capacity of holding nutrients. In my area the most common mistake in the cultivation of the sp is the high pH. Queens need water during hot weather, only more tap water means more iron deficiency symptoms in alkaline soul. People misinterpret the subdequent yellowing as general nutrient deficiency trying to cope with by applying more inapropriate fertilizer (oxide forms of the various elements and edta chelates of te). That makes situation even worse up to dramatic level, because it increases salt concentration, leading to more watering and thus to more intense iron deficiency. It is a vicious circle due to ignorance about pH requirements.

Yep exactly, they dont mind heat if they get water and fertilizer and clay soil has plenty of cation exchange to limit deficiencies.  Mine grown in gilbert arizona in clay soil with a PH that was adjusted towards neutral with years of sulfur applications.  They were very nice but maintenance instensive vs my other palms grown in the desert.   In sandy soils in florida they are never as nice as mine were and half of them look like eyesores on the landscape due to minimal owner care.   Here are my beauties from Arizona in clay soil with plenty of water.

[MJSanDiego]

@sonoranfans Gorgeous! Well done. Being you are in zone 9b with a high and dry heat index, this is most impressive. Most won't take the time to care for them in the deserts the first several years and they struggle and croak. It is a palm after all. Their native temperature range is 60 to 85. That just means at 40 to 90 temp range, with little care, soil depending of course, and you will have a gorgoue specimen. You can go outside the range and get them eatablished as you have, with much care, and have beauties too! I believe clay is actually the best soil, many disagree but thanks to us, and this forum, the information is getting out. Clay has issues and gets bashed but it is nutrient rich and holds water. Many don't understand how to get plants started from nursery pot to clay, and it can be an initial challenge. But once they grab on, zoom zoom. I have two queens in pure clay planted 1.5 years ago from 1 gallon pots and flourishing. From 1 inch diameter trunks to 7 inch diameter trunks in 1.5 years!!  Anyway, well done!!!

[SeanK]

22 hours ago, MJSanDiego said:

@SeanK you are not looking in the right places where this species thrives. USA is a big place. You can try to push the zones but they do best where temps never go lower than 40 nor above 90. In their native habitat its 60 to 85 degrees year round.  And they dont appreciate high winds or super low humidity. This is why I brought up this topic. This palm is misunderstood thanks to big box stores and other. Come to San Diego where Queens are the most ubiquitous of any city in the USA and most all look perfect. Look at these beauties, I posted this pic a few times. Nothing can imitate their graceful elegant presence. These fronds sway in the calm breezes like no other species

Monotonous. 

[flplantguy]

They are good for the right places.  Look at the journey foxtails have taken in the recent past. From rare and hard to get, to common and used as experiments in Florida.  You see both well cared for and terrible plants of both species here due to incompatible conditions (soils). Without human intervention they look bad yet they also self seed here in the right spot like wetlands or a cared for yard.  Queens are also an index 2 invasive here, but are still planted en masse in new developments where they and foxtails both suffer.  Its all about right plant right place.

[MJSanDiego]

On 7/11/2024 at 10:06 AM, SeanK said:

Monotonous. 

@SeanK come to San Diego I will give you a grand city personal tour after which you will be so stunned at the tropical look of this coveted ornamental palm, you will be back home frantically digging holes in your yard for your new breathtaking tropical paradise of Syagrus Romanzoffianas! 😁 Do you live in Atlanta GA? It snows there do you even have palms?

[SeanK]

35 minutes ago, MJSanDiego said:

@SeanK come to San Diego I will give you a grand city personal tour after which you will be so stunned at the tropical look of this coveted ornamental palm, you will be back home frantically digging holes in your yard for your new breathtaking tropical paradise of Syagrus romanzoffianas! 😁 Do you live in Atlanta GA? It snows there do you even have palms?

The minimum expected temp for winter is 10°F. Normal snow is once or twice a winter, probably two inches. Bigger problem since I've been here is ice storms. Also, a strong front can cause a drastic temp change. December 2022 we went from mid 50's to about 5°F in 36 hours.

The only trunking palm that is reliable is Trachycarpus, although an established S.palmetto is quite cold-hardy. Chamaerhops and Butia have a one-decade lifespan at best here.

As for San Diego, I'll say variety is the spice of life.

[PalmatierMeg]

How you feel about queens depends on whether you can grow them successfully or not. When we moved here in 1993, queen palms were the landscape darlings peddled to Yankees everywhere. So guess what we planted in our back yard? In Florida, SFL & SWFL esp., Syagrus romanzoffiana is now a Class II invasive. Class I invasives are banned by law; Class II is highly discouraged and most responsible nurseries and BB garden centers around here don't carry them anymore. They hate FL alkaline, calcareous sand soil, are water and fertilizer hogs, produce bountiful crops of large smelly, slimy, fly attracting fruit that cause slip-and-fall accidents. If you don't regularly water and fertilize - most people in Cape Coral do not - they become stunted and yellow until they die. They are common as dirt and almost as cheap. One benefit of Hurricane Ian was it basically hammered all the aging queens in CC so they are dying off. They, as well as mules and Washies are susceptible to lethal fusarium wilt, which took out my 7 massive queens, 2 mules and a robusta between 2015-2016. I can't plant any of them in the future. A terrible choice for a palm in FL.

But if you have the kind of soil they prefer and if you give them the water they crave and if you give them the slow release palm fertilizer they want (and will steal from any plants/palms nearby) and if you can avoid breaking your bones slipping on slimy orange fruit and if you can resist hacking off most of their leaves to make a fashion statement, you may be able to grow a very beautiful canopy palm with dark green leaves as I once did - at least until fusarium wilt settles into your neighborhood.

Syagrus romanzoffiana in 2015 before wilt took it out, Cape Coral, FL

[happypalms]

I had two some 20 years back realising what they would become I dug them out gave them to my neighbour not a good move now 20 years later there the biggest weed he does not maintain his 5 acres and it’s got hundreds coming up off all sizes they come up within a 10 acre radius all over my property there are palms and there are weeds of palms I guess you define a weed as a plant any plant that’s not in it’s natural habitat well this one can go back to South America I have seen them in habitat and will say they look gorgeous in habitat just not in my backyard.

[happypalms]

53 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

How you feel about queens depends on whether you can grow them successfully or not. When we moved here in 1993, queen palms were the landscape darlings peddled to Yankees everywhere. So guess what we planted in our back yard? In Florida, SFL & SWFL esp., Syagrus romanzoffiana is now a Class II invasive. Class I invasives are banned by law; Class II is highly discouraged and most responsible nurseries and BB garden centers around here don't carry them anymore. They hate FL alkaline, calcareous sand soil, are water and fertilizer hogs, produce bountiful crops of large smelly, slimy, fly attracting fruit that cause slip-and-fall accidents. If you don't regularly water and fertilize - most people in Cape Coral do not - they become stunted and yellow until they die. They are common as dirt and almost as cheap. One benefit of Hurricane Ian was it basically hammered all the aging queens in CC so they are dying off. They, as well as mules and Washies are susceptible to lethal fusarium wilt, which took out my 7 massive queens, 2 mules and a robusta between 2015-2016. I can't plant any of them in the future. A terrible choice for a palm in FL.

But if you have the kind of soil they prefer and if you give them the water they crave and if you give them the slow release palm fertilizer they want (and will steal from any plants/palms nearby) and if you can avoid breaking your bones slipping on slimy orange fruit and if you can resist hacking off most of their leaves to make a fashion statement, you may be able to grow a very beautiful canopy palm with dark green leaves as I once did - at least until fusarium wilt settles into your neighborhood.

Syagrus romanzoffiana in 2015 before wilt took it out, Cape Coral, FL

Don’t forget Meg mowing them and getting your shins belted with seeds as hard as rocks rats cockroaches bats screaming all night eating them dropping there crap on your roof and footpaths also spreading the seeds to every place you can mention they are the first palm I ever germinated so good for learning how to grow they have a place in the cool zones but such a weed potential palm in any place that get half decent rainfall in habitat in iguazzu they look fantastic just not in my garden my biggest concern now is with all the new syagrus varieties what are they going to do in 20 years time our environment is precious thing we all should consider by not introducing such weed potential disease spreading plants it becomes more evident in Australia with such strict bio security laws and unique flora and fauna we all want to protect our environment and keeping out such plants that have such a devastating impact on our environments along with the rest of the world after all we only have one planet.

[jwitt]

On 7/10/2024 at 8:23 PM, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

The good ol Queen palm , you either love em or hate em. Here in 9a South Houston there definitely not a long term palm. You could get some good years out of them and they grow fast here but will eventually die when we hit the teens. I will eventually plant a couple since I grew them from seed. Growing up in SoCal Queens were definitely played out and hardly taken care of. With the ability to grow so much more, queens just don't seem to be worth the space. Now living in 9a seems to be more of a challenge and very rare to see mature ones. Of all places a nursery in Kihei Maui had a grove of them and they were spectacular. Definitely rare in Maui , so kinda cool again haha. Pic below of course is sideways smh

T J 

Kihei community center also has some awesome Queens, if you go back. 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

3 hours ago, jwitt said:

if you go back. 

We try to go every year now ! 

T J 

[Foxpalms]

Queen palms look nice when maintained.

[SeanK]

21 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

Queen palms look nice when maintained.

Sure, but you're in z9b. If you were in z10, you would plant Royals. Do you want only one species of palm in your garden?

[Billy]

On 7/10/2024 at 8:54 AM, Billeb said:

Can’t do it. I love Queen palms…..in my neighbors yard across the street, not mine. 

^^^This^^^