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Palm enthusiast for 22 years and yes the Queen too


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Posted
  On 7/16/2024 at 11:55 AM, SeanK said:

Well, that I understand. We plant 90% things that can take our climate, then 10% things that need to be babied. But it's the 10% that makes the yard stand out. 

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@SeanK speaking of the 10% you mention, this is right on topic of something I planned on posting a bit later today regarding hardiness zones. And also related to The Home Depot and other chain stores. And something I learned real fast the wrong way!! I think it will be helpful to newbies too.  But I need a pic so won't be until later.  It will be interesting..... I promise! 🙂 Is the suspense killing you 🤣

Posted
  On 7/16/2024 at 11:55 AM, SeanK said:

Well, that I understand. We plant 90% things that can take our climate, then 10% things that need to be babied. But it's the 10% that makes the yard stand out. 

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Royals grow fine here, if you water them. That's the big limiting factor.

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Posted

Fan palms are also nice just saying

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Palms - Adonidia merillii1 Bismarckia nobilis, 2 Butia odorataBxJ1 BxJxBxS1 BxSChamaerops humilis1 Chambeyronia macrocarpa1 Hyophorbe lagenicaulis1 Hyophorbe verschaffeltiiLivistona chinensis1 Livistona nitida, 1 Phoenix canariensis3 Phoenix roebeleniiRavenea rivularis1 Rhapis excelsa1 Sabal bermudanaSabal palmetto4 Syagrus romanzoffianaTrachycarpus fortunei4 Washingtonia robusta1 Wodyetia bifurcata
Total: 41

Posted
  On 7/16/2024 at 11:59 PM, JLM said:

Fan palms are also nice just saying

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I actually like Washingtonia Robustas.  You really have to be willing to do some serious maintenance or spend some money if you want them to stay stunning, though.  But well maintained, they can be a gorgeous addition to any garden.  The thorns are insane though!

Posted
  On 7/16/2024 at 11:59 PM, JLM said:

Fan palms are also nice just saying

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That’s an awfully big category since there approximately 1,000 different species of fan palms. Were you referring to any particular species of fan palm? 

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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

Posted

Hmmm.

Okay, in my time I've loved queens. Palms that is.

When I came here in 1985 I wanted to get a house and get some palms, and in 1986 I did, in Highland, right next Norton AFB.

Closed escrow on Sept 2 and bought a bunch of five gallon queens on Sept 3 planted them shortly after, I was a happy young dude planting his first palm trees. And, some are still there after nearly forty years.

Sold the house, went to college at UCR, lived up hill from the campus and OF COURSE I planted a few queens there, too in 1990-1991. They're still there. Landlord approved, I moved, he died, new owners like the palms apparently.

In law school, I discovered the palm society, and the downward or upward spiral began. Palm snobbery set in. I raised palms in a home container ranch and sold them for cash to whoever wanted them, and it was gratifying to see how many did.

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Posted

Okay, so, up on my experienced (geriatric?) soapbox I go. How do I love queen palms?

And how do I or others hate them.

Oh the many ways relating to their being and biology.

Here in Southern California Queens rock, our climate is a lot like their native land in Sou-ha'merica, Argentina, Paraguay, southern Brazil. If you have soil that's actual ag dirt, and not alkalai-hell dirt, they just grow like hell. Deep green. Fat, happy. thirty feet in like 7 years. Thick and tough enough to stop monster trucks and yeah, I've seen a number that did.

Full sun, the fuller the better, but will take half a day. 18 inches across the trunks, and the trunks are full of fibers not water. These ain't no candy-assed Roystonea trunks. They use these for pilings in the sea, and "shipworms" don't mess with them. Fibers woven with other fibers, not just "bark" and sponge underneath.

The roots are greedy. (Slapping self to stop editorials.) Weeds and other plants don't like growing beneath them. Good places for gravel/chips etc. for mulch.

The original street view for google maps of my place shows a bunch of queen palms, the year before I had another dude remove them for his palm ranch in Corona. (Tried to get him into other palms, but he said no.)

Still do my best for the volunteer babies. People who want them are glad when I plant them for them, and encourage them to come explore other options.

But, queens rock. Bay-bay, yes they do.

To be continued.

 

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Posted
  On 7/16/2024 at 11:59 PM, JLM said:

Fan palms are also nice just saying

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Love them ALL.

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Posted
  On 7/17/2024 at 3:49 AM, DoomsDave said:

Okay, so, up on my experienced (geriatric?) soapbox I go. How do I love queen palms?

And how do I or others hate them.

Oh the many ways relating to their being and biology.

Here in Southern California Queens rock, our climate is a lot like their native land in Sou-ha'merica, Argentina, Paraguay, southern Brazil. If you have soil that's actual ag dirt, and not alkalai-hell dirt, they just grow like hell. Deep green. Fat, happy. thirty feet in like 7 years. Thick and tough enough to stop monster trucks and yeah, I've seen a number that did.

Full sun, the fuller the better, but will take half a day. 18 inches across the trunks, and the trunks are full of fibers not water. These ain't no candy-assed Roystonea trunks. They use these for pilings in the sea, and "shipworms" don't mess with them. Fibers woven with other fibers, not just "bark" and sponge underneath.

The roots are greedy. (Slapping self to stop editorials.) Weeds and other plants don't like growing beneath them. Good places for gravel/chips etc. for mulch.

The original street view for google maps of my place shows a bunch of queen palms, the year before I had another dude remove them for his palm ranch in Corona. (Tried to get him into other palms, but he said no.)

Still do my best for the volunteer babies. People who want them are glad when I plant them for them, and encourage them to come explore other options.

But, queens rock. Bay-bay, yes they do.

To be continued.

 

Expand  

They do rock! They are Southern California icons. It's an image. A way of life. The Queens ooze the Southern California lifestyle decades in the making. Awe inspiring feathery pinnate ornamental elegance. Mine are growing in clay and super happy with the nutrient rich soil. But I am still amazed things grow in this clay.  If I don't water frequently enough during our dry season the clay dries into concrete and it becones water impervious. It takes time to get the water to penetrate once again.  Yet they still flourush.  They know they are in the land of So Cal.  Queens forever!!

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Posted

Or we can change to something less invasive and agressive but having similar look, Syagrus x andrequiceana (flexuosa x romanzoffiana)

Picture by Pierre-Olivier Albano:

20240717_110856.jpg.827eb32130a5a91f8ad4c24408305891.jpg

Mine (hopefully) too

20240717_104821.thumb.jpg.93bad3f499830cca640945f7bd819757.jpg

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Posted
  On 7/17/2024 at 12:09 AM, MJSanDiego said:

I actually like Washingtonia Robustas.  You really have to be willing to do some serious maintenance or spend some money if you want them to stay stunning, though.  But well maintained, they can be a gorgeous addition to any garden.  The thorns are insane though!

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Brahea armata is beautiful. I was impressed with these in PHX a few years back. In a dry climate, they're about 10F° more cold-hardy than the blue Bizzies.

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Posted
  On 7/17/2024 at 5:02 AM, MJSanDiego said:

They do rock! They are Southern California icons. It's an image. A way of life. The Queens ooze the Southern California lifestyle decades in the making. Awe inspiring feathery pinnate ornamental elegance. Mine are growing in clay and super happy with the nutrient rich soil. But I am still amazed things grow in this clay.  If I don't water frequently enough during our dry season the clay dries into concrete and it becones water impervious. It takes time to get the water to penetrate once again.  Yet they still flourush.  They know they are in the land of So Cal.  Queens forever!!

Expand  

Thoroughly amend your clay, and it's about the best soil you can have. The only thing that's better is river bottom silt or dirt with gold nuggets or diamonds in it.

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Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

Posted

Good point on clay. I also wanted to add to this forum about planting in clay anyway. You hear all sorts of methods. This method I came up with works great for me but I dont think it's a common method. Say you buy a Queen palm in a 1 gallon pot. It's like 7 inch diameter. I dig the smallest hole possible. 8 inches wide. And depth should be even or an inch raised is fine but not sunk lower. Put it in. I fill the little narrow gap around with a 50/50 mixture of native soil and Gromulch from The Home Depot. Make sure to leave no air pockets. Very narrow area yes.... so use the driest mixture with all finest soil. Bust up any big clumps until its like sandy!! This little bit just allows the roots to easily penetrate at first. Once the roots penetrate that thin layer they are basically in the clay beyond. So it's a minimal amendment minimal digging method. The goal is to get the roots established into your clay soil as soon as possible. I found without that little amended sliver, the plant has initial difficulty and more shock if you just used all clay in your sliver, and harder to water properly. Watering properly is key especially at first as you water the initial potting soil root ball on SLOW DRIP and water will wick into your amended sliver and then into the clay beyond. I do throw gromulch on top every month or so but keep it a few inches away from the trunk. That Gromulch at Home Depot is really good stuff, it says it's for organic gardening. Just sharing my own method of success, thanks for sharing all the great palm pics!!

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Posted
  On 7/17/2024 at 5:02 AM, MJSanDiego said:

They are Southern California icons. It's an image. A way of life. The Queens ooze the Southern California lifestyle decades in the making. Awe inspiring feathery pinnate ornamental elegance.

Expand  

????  I can understand someone saying that Washingtonia robusta is synonymous with Southern California, but being a second generation native, I hardly think of Syagrus romanzoffiana as an iconic representation of Southern California,  They didn't really burst onto the scene in the suburban sprawl until maybe 40 years ago.  Washingtonia robusta's date back at least a century as street plantings in California and common yard plantings.  My first home in the late 80's I opted for a couple of Rhopalostylis sapida rather than Queens even though at that time only a few people were planting Queens in my new Carlsbad subdivision... so much more elegant a palm are those Shaving brush palms.  It wasn't until the 90's that every other lot being developed in southwest Carlsbad had a mix of Queens, Pygmy date palms and maybe a Sago "palm" or two (Cycas rovoluta)

At about that time we said goodbye to all the regional hardware chains and shortly thereafter many of the regional nursery chains and Home Depot moved in.  They were followed by Home Base, which later was acquired by Eagle Hardware and then gobbled up by Lowes, where most of these palms are now sold.  Not to mention the many independent nurseries that have closed over the decades that had more eclectic buyers than the chains can claim.  Perhaps that's why I don't want my yard to look like a Home Depot parking lot in the way of plantings.  I miss Sackett and Peters, Builders Emporium, Stallings Ranch Nursery, my local Ace Hardwares where the owners were often behind the cash register.  I don't miss not planting Queen palms that go with the new mass merchandise nationwide chain retailers.

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Posted
  On 7/17/2024 at 9:18 PM, Tracy said:

????  I can understand someone saying that Washingtonia robusta is synonymous with Southern California, but being a second generation native, I hardly think of Syagrus romanzoffiana as an iconic representation of Southern California,  They didn't really burst onto the scene in the suburban sprawl until maybe 40 years ago.  Washingtonia robusta's date back at least a century as street plantings in California and common yard plantings.  My first home in the late 80's I opted for a couple of Rhopalostylis sapida rather than Queens even though at that time only a few people were planting Queens in my new Carlsbad subdivision... so much more elegant a palm are those Shaving brush palms.  It wasn't until the 90's that every other lot being developed in southwest Carlsbad had a mix of Queens, Pygmy date palms and maybe a Sago "palm" or two (Cycas rovoluta)

At about that time we said goodbye to all the regional hardware chains and shortly thereafter many of the regional nursery chains and Home Depot moved in.  They were followed by Home Base, which later was acquired by Eagle Hardware and then gobbled up by Lowes, where most of these palms are now sold.  Not to mention the many independent nurseries that have closed over the decades that had more eclectic buyers than the chains can claim.  Perhaps that's why I don't want my yard to look like a Home Depot parking lot in the way of plantings.  I miss Sackett and Peters, Builders Emporium, Stallings Ranch Nursery, my local Ace Hardwares where the owners were often behind the cash register.  I don't miss not planting Queen palms that go with the new mass merchandise nationwide chain retailers.

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Thanks for the reply. I used too broad of an area. Southern California is a massive area. Sorry about that. The mega LA area and Inland Empire for sure Washingtonia Robusta is the top palm. But down here in San Diego, a much smaller urban area than LA and the IE, there are unequivocally far more Queens than Mexican Fan Palms. Perhaps it is just the last 30 years that Queens burst into the scene and took over Mexican Fan Palms here. Queens are sooooo San Diego! I've also only lived in CA since 1995. Thanks for the reply!

  • Upvote 1
Posted
  On 7/17/2024 at 9:18 PM, Tracy said:

????  I can understand someone saying that Washingtonia robusta is synonymous with Southern California, but being a second generation native, I hardly think of Syagrus romanzoffiana as an iconic representation of Southern California,  They didn't really burst onto the scene in the suburban sprawl until maybe 40 years ago.  Washingtonia robusta's date back at least a century as street plantings in California and common yard plantings. 

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I recall a few ..here and there up in San Jose / surrounding areas but  ..agree 100%,  ..wasn't until sometime in the latest 80s / early 90s that the queen disease started spreading and you'd see them -everywhere-

Noticing many disappearing from some parts of the old 'Hood up there more recently. 

As far as iconic palms of CA?  Washingtonia robusta  ...and the occasional filifera   ...and Canary Island Dates ( Phoenix canariensis ) were the " Three Amigos " i noticed as soon as i could recognize the world around me..

Grandparents ( ..mom's side ), had a few W. robusta  planted in some sidewalk cutouts between their house and a neighbor.  There were at least a couple times i'd tried to climb one of them, and cut up my hands ..or stood under one when i got out of school early and had to wait for someone to get home ( I'm sure you too remember the good ol' Latch-key Kid days )

Another neighbor  half a block over had a pair of big Canaries,  the fruit from which me and some kids i knew att used to use in games of war. ( or the occasional targeting of passing cars, LOL! )

As i'm sure you know,  if you look back,  one, ...or a combo of all three of these palm species were planted alongside the missions throughout the state as they were founded, well before you or i were even thought of..  So yea, definitely California icons as far as palms go.

Thinking back to that k - thru 7th grade timeframe,  oddly enough,  the " coolest " palm i'd see occasionally around San Jo'   was  ..Ya guessed it,  Archontophoenix cunninghamiana   ..IT actually made me think of So. Cal -esque things ..Surfing / Skateboarding / the L.A./ S.D. beach lifestyle,  Def Leppard ( ..of all things, lol  Don't ask me why. )  Santa Cruz..  ....anything / everything  " cool "  about California..

Yes, having ties to Hawaii,  there has always been a Coconut influence that has always hung in the background  but,  never having the chance to go there, aside from when relatives would visit, or when i'd go see my grandma / aunties perform Hula,  i never got to see what all the hype w/ them was about until the trips to.. / ...living in  FL.

..King Palms,  something i'd see whenever passing through certain parts of town,  just spoke " cool "  ..while the " Three Amigos " provided the "Chill-axed /  Laid back " early days of Hip Hop"  kind of vibe.    Together? ..they spoke " California " to my eyes, ears, and mind.

Then of course, i noticed some  Howea forsteriana  planted near a bank in Santa Cruz while on the way to the beach on day  ..which only added  " cool " end of the CA. palm spectrum.

Queens??

I'd also notice some Queens planted in neighborhoods near the Boardwalk / around Capatola when roaming around down there, or when they started popping up in the hood back over the hill..  ....Just made me shrug a bit..   ok i guess,  but,  just,  ...Ok..  

   Definitely not a CA icon     ..More Kenny G,  than the Leppard..  :greenthumb: 😁

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Posted
  On 7/17/2024 at 9:47 PM, MJSanDiego said:

down here in San Diego

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To me classic San Diego are the large old Phoenix reclinatas in front of the old County Building on the waterfront downtown.  Classic San Diego are the diverse palm plantings in Balboa Park and San Diego Zoo.  Classic San Diego are the beautiful diverse palm plantings around Mission Bay.  Classic San Diego palms are the old Quail Botanical Garden now San Diego Botanic Garden in Encinitas's collection of palms.  Classic San Diego are the many Phoenix canariensis planted in what used to be the Naval Training Center in Pt. Loma (now Liberty Station) and adjacent to it at the Marine Corp Recruit Depot.

Queen palms speak to a suburban sprawl that long time San Diego residents hoped wouldn't ever make it cross over the barrier of Camp Pendleton.  Just as the orange groves of my childhood  on the edge of LA & Orange Counties gave way to an urban sprawl and new freeways, Camp Pendleton only slowed the progression of that flow.  So yes, Queens represent the unpleasant things that came with the sudden growth for those of us that were here to experience it all.

  • Upvote 3

33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Posted

The queens are pretty old in SB and as tall as the sky duster Washingtonia’s. When they get tall enough they shed their fronds in big wind events. The Washingtonia fronds are kinda terrifying as they rain down and harder to clean up without getting stabbed. But the thing I remember is the millions of old pits from the queens that would stop a skateboard and throw you over the front and being street plantings the pits are everywhere.  Beautiful in SB even with the pits.

 

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Posted

Both W.robusta and S.romanzoffiana suffer from being fast growers, therefore fast cash at the big-box stores. I4-FL and south has seen a similar case with foxtails, except that Woodyetias have gotten frozen back semi-regularly.

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Posted
  On 7/17/2024 at 10:53 PM, Tracy said:

To me classic San Diego are the large old Phoenix reclinatas in front of the old County Building on the waterfront downtown.  Classic San Diego are the diverse palm plantings in Balboa Park and San Diego Zoo.  Classic San D

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You can slice and dice this all day long, but the reality is, today, if you drive all over San Diego's vast and unique districts and neighborhoods, meaning the real San Diego and not the tourist traps, it is quite obvious to any person that Queens by far outnumber any other palms and are the quintessential San Diego!

Posted

Not sure about the comments about Queen palms mainly being introduced in CA in the ‘80s and ‘90s. As a kid in the early ‘60s, many of my neighbors had large ones in their yards. Some were exceptionally big. As seen in the photos below, one from 1926 and the other more recent, Queen palms have been a staple in California a long long time. I’ve seen them in a few early Three Stooges films from the 1930s and even in a couple of Laurel and Hardy films from the mid 1920s. 
 

IMG_9321.jpeg.6e5749bf732634510342f1394aa92c4b.jpeg
IMG_9323.thumb.png.455c7cc63bda3d3549bd70029946b850.png
IMG_9325.thumb.png.8bbe9f8420f7d4c2ada931031afb3533.png
 

 

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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

Posted
  On 7/18/2024 at 4:50 AM, MJSanDiego said:

You can slice and dice this all day long, but the reality is, today, if you drive all over San Diego's vast and unique districts and neighborhoods, meaning the real San Diego and not the tourist traps, it is quite obvious to any person that Queens by far outnumber any other palms and are the quintessential San Diego!

Expand  

Howea forsteriana  ..A  far  better representation of San D. 


07 and 09 / 2012:
IMG_1348.thumb.JPG.ad1ff85caf69a9cd34778b301890c340.JPG


IMG_1353.thumb.JPG.32612edc1e4065248f465d868e7e60c5.JPG

IMG_2005.thumb.JPG.801dd4d02dd32cda4ba4a83efd271f58.JPG


IMG_2008.thumb.JPG.fdcdf6e74e91d002c89fb132bb3fcaa4.JPG



IMG_2014.thumb.JPG.367c2e2837af79cab84ffae663393379.JPG

@Tracy  ..You / others probably recognize -at least-  a couple of these locations, if not all..

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Posted
  On 7/18/2024 at 5:20 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Not sure about the comments about Queen palms mainly being introduced in CA in the ‘80s and ‘90s. As a kid in the early ‘60s, many of my neighbors had large ones in their yards. Some were exceptionally big. As seen in the photos below, one from 1926 and the other more recent, Queen palms have been a staple in California a long long time. I’ve seen them in a few early Three Stooges films from the 1930s and even in a couple of Laurel and Hardy films from the mid 1920s. 
 

IMG_9321.jpeg.6e5749bf732634510342f1394aa92c4b.jpeg
IMG_9323.thumb.png.455c7cc63bda3d3549bd70029946b850.png
IMG_9325.thumb.png.8bbe9f8420f7d4c2ada931031afb3533.png
 

 

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🤔 Interesting...    ..As mentioned, don't remember seeing any really around San Jo until later..  Don't recall seeing them in pictures relatives had taken around town in the 70s / earliest 80s either. 

Posted
  On 7/18/2024 at 5:20 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Not sure about the comments about Queen palms mainly being introduced in CA in the ‘80s and ‘90s. As a kid in the early ‘60s, many of my neighbors had large ones in their yards. Some were exceptionally big. As seen in the photos below, one from 1926 and the other more recent, Queen palms have been a staple in California a long long time. I’ve seen them in a few early Three Stooges films from the 1930s and even in a couple of Laurel and Hardy films from the mid 1920s. 
 

IMG_9321.jpeg.6e5749bf732634510342f1394aa92c4b.jpeg
IMG_9323.thumb.png.455c7cc63bda3d3549bd70029946b850.png
IMG_9325.thumb.png.8bbe9f8420f7d4c2ada931031afb3533.png
 

 

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I am clearly not from the area ofcourse, but coincidentally yesterday i noticed some very tall queens on Melrose avenue (near Paramamount pictures studio tour) in a Columbo episode from 1973. So yes, in LA they seemed to have been around as streetplantings for quite some time. 

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Posted

@Jim in Los Altos love the 1926 pic and other pics of the Qeeens. Great stuff thank you so much! This does help solidify the Queen is a long time staple. Even though they are are ubiquitous here in zone 10b (zone 11 at immediate coast) it would be even cooler if every homeowner planted just one of these timeless elegant feathery pinnate beauties (please no closer than 10 to 15 from your house!!). It would even be more delightful than it all already is (IMO)! I know others love them too as we have seen in this forum, but perhaps don't like the maintenance and upkeep. Respect!

  • Upvote 1
Posted

I love my native palm, the "jerivá" that I know so well since childhood. As a young boy, my cousins and I sometimes took our horses for a whole day excursion on our "campos" and forests, and when our supply of food had finished we ate some of the very sweet and "snotloud" fruits of the jerivá palms. It is our most common native palm in my ( 9a ) - 9b region of Paraná, 1030m altitude,  southern Brazil, so much it' s also very commonly called "palmeira" ( palm) here. Other names of the jerivá (Syagrus romanzoffiana), are: baba-de-boi, coco-catarro, coqueiro, coquinho-de-cachorro, coquinho meleca,  jeribá, pindoba, coco-juvena, coqueiro-pindó, juruvá, jiruvá, jurubá.

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Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Posted

I talked about this before and I promised some people I would post this topic so here it is. 17 years ago when I bought Syragus Romanzoffiana Queen palms at The Home Depot to plant in the CA San Bernardino County High Desert (Victorville), the back of the tag stated: 30F+, zone 10. I wish I still had the tag, I usually save them all but I lost them years ago. Based on that, I knew in the CA High Desert this would be futile but I tried anyway like an idiot.  Strong Queens putting out many spears, granted only one season. But they all fried on me every winter at just 27 degrees with no frost, low humidity and loamy soil. And that was with wrapping the trunk diligently with burlap!! So based on my experience in the High Desert 17 years ago, 30F+ was pretty accurate to me. Now fast forward 17 years. Take a look at my pic of the tag from Home Depot. Now it shows 30F to 20F zone 9. It's the same Syagrus Romanzoffiana, no hybrids. Yes they can grow in zone 9 but like anything a true zone 10 provides better peace of mind with no worries with crazy record low temps so the palm can always be all it can be decade after decade with no winterizing. I have lived in zone 10b for years now so I can plant many species but the Syagrus Romanzoffiana is my baby as you all know by now!!! It's funny though, not sure if anyone here lives in the CA high desert, but it is actually zone 8a. So back then I did give up on planting anything except Trachycarpus Fortunei and Chamaerops Humilis. But in reality where I resided at the time it was actually zone 7b based on some overnight temps that I recorded! It was normal to have a 30 degree temperature variation between the high and low temp of the day. Sometimes 40 degrees! Notice the water requirements, average mature size and spacing on the tag! This is important to note when making a decision on where to plant!!! As the OP, thank you all for reading and commenting on this thread. It is truly welcoming to see many adore and appreciate the feathery,  pinnate, elegant and ornamental Syagrus Romanzoffiana (minus the upkeep perhaps)!!  Quintessential San Diego!  Respect!!

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Posted
  On 7/18/2024 at 5:09 PM, Alberto said:

I love my native palm, the "jerivá" that I know so well since childhood. As a young boy, my cousins and I sometimes took our horses for a whole day excursion on our "campos" and forests, and when our supply of food had finished we ate some of the very sweet and "snotloud" fruits of the jerivá palms. It is our most common native palm in my ( 9a ) - 9b region of Paraná, 1030m altitude,  southern Brazil, so much it' s also very commonly called "palmeira" ( palm) here. Other names of the jerivá (Syagrus romanzoffiana), are: baba-de-boi, 

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Welcome from Southern Brazil! So nice to see a post from Brazil where Syragus Romanzoffiana is native, and the ubiquitous palm is adored! And many don't realize the fruit is edible! It's a stately, elegant, feathery, pinnate beauty! Timeless, thank you Alberto!!

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Posted
  On 7/17/2024 at 10:53 PM, Tracy said:

To me classic San Diego are the large old Phoenix reclinatas in front of the old County Building on the waterfront downtown.  Classic San Diego are the diverse palm plantings in Balboa Park and San Diego Zoo.  Classic San Diego are the beautiful diverse palm plantings around Mission Bay.  Classic San Diego palms are the old Quail Botanical Garden now San Diego Botanic Garden in Encinitas's collection of palms.  Classic San Diego are the many Phoenix canariensis planted in what used to be the Naval Training Center in Pt. Loma (now Liberty Station) and adjacent to it at the Marine Corp Recruit Depot.

Queen palms speak to a suburban sprawl that long time San Diego residents hoped wouldn't ever make it cross over the barrier of Camp Pendleton.  Just as the orange groves of my childhood  on the edge of LA & Orange Counties gave way to an urban sprawl and new freeways, Camp Pendleton only slowed the progression of that flow.  So yes, Queens represent the unpleasant things that came with the sudden growth for those of us that were here to experience it all.

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Oh yes, the classic palms of So-Cal in general.

I'm one of the reasons for the suburban sprawl, along with millions who came between 1980 and 1990.

I remember the classic palms of SD and those of Los Angeles, and SB and Riverside and San Bernardino.

In the old parts of LA, there were lots of Washies of course, but also queens that were about 70 feet tall along the "Miracle Mile"; and CIDPs on the skyline. Plus tall Trachies and Kings, especially near the coast. I drove along Palm Drive in Beverly Hills a year or two after Eddie Murphy did it as Axel Foley in Beverly Hills Cop, and again a year or two ago, and the palms are mostly still there. And Chilean Wine Palms by Mission SB and in White Park in Riverside. And Phoenix reclinatas in parks all over the place, plus MASSIVE hybrids with CIDPs. Pasadena was full of little old ladies, little old men and lots of big massive palms: queens, Washies, CIDPs, Trachies, reclinatas, even kings in people's yards as well as in parks. There were palmy parks all over the place.

And, SD was glorious too, especially since its waterfront was not taken up by development. SD grew at a much more genteel pace, that's for sure. I even looked at a house in O-Side, with a view of the beach for 74K - "it's a mess" the real estate lady said. It was, but I wish I'd have been able to buy it.

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Posted

Jerivá (Syagrus romanzoffiana) in Brazil are native from cold subtropical high altitude ( 9a - 9b) climates in the southern states of Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina and Paraná ( where they grow from almost frost free sea level until high in the mountains and tablelands. They also are native in tropical southeast Brazil ( were it freezes only at higher altitudes) and also reach the hot tropical state of Bahia in northeastern Brazil. So, depending on the provenance of the palm , they certainly are more or less cold hardy. For example: once I germinated a queen palm seed collected in the State São Paulo ( it looked different then my native palms) and it was the only one that showed burned leaves after a night of -5⁰C. All my native queens were not affected. It also succumbed due to unknown reasons some years ago.... 

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Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Posted

Here are some weather info of the neighboring municipality of Castro, where queens also are native: https://m.weatherbase.com/weather/weather.php?s=598018&cityname=Castro-Parana-Brazil

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Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Posted
  On 7/18/2024 at 7:09 PM, Alberto said:

Jerivá (Syagrus romanzoffiana) in Brazil are native from cold subtropical high altitude ( 9a - 9b) climates in the southern states of Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina and Paraná ( where they grow from almost frost free sea level until high in the mountains and tablelands. They also are native in tropical southeast Brazil ( were it freezes only at higher altitudes) and also reach the hot tropical state of Bahia in northeastern Brazil. So, depen

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Great info thanks! I'm curious what kind of soil do you have down there in your native area? Clay, loam, sandy? Rocky? Thanks 

Posted

Queens like deep soils often in riparian forest. They like the deep "latossolo vermelho" rich in iron but appears also in more sandy more black soils.  The better the soil the better they look with big leaves in all angles. ( totally full crown) The climate here is rainy the whole year. ( August is  bit drier or sometimes totally dry) . We have +- 1600 mm rain on the tableland and above 2000 mm in the Serra do Mar ( moutain range near the sea) and at sea level.

Screenshot_20240718_165443_Chrome.jpg

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Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Posted
  On 7/18/2024 at 7:53 PM, Alberto said:

Queens like deep soils often in riparian forest. They like the deep "latossolo vermelho" rich in iron but appears also in more sandy more black soils.  The better the soil the better they look with big leaves in all angles. ( totally full crown) The climate here is rainy the whole year. ( August is  bit drier or sometimes totally dry) . We have +- 1600 mm rain on the tableland and above 2000 mm in the Serra do Mar ( moutain range near the sea) and at sea level.

Screenshot_20240718_165443_Chrome.jpg

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Thanks. I have some red in the soil here. It's clay but nutrient rich.  I throw Gromulch on top monthly. Yep they love water. Here you can't overwater Syagrus Romanzoffiana during our dry season (May through November).  Supplemental water every other day. The more water the faster and nicer they grow. During our rainy season I can get by with almost no supplemental water if its an average rain season because clay holds water very well and the temps are cooler. Our highs are around 65F during winter (18C) with lows 45 to 50F  (7 to 10C). 

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Posted

Two pics I took now of my totally neglected queens that grow wild in my natural araucaria forest that I have at my place.

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Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Posted
  On 7/17/2024 at 3:49 AM, DoomsDave said:

Okay, so, up on my experienced (geriatric?) soapbox I go. How do I love queen palms?

And how do I or others hate them.

Oh the many ways relating to their being and biology.

Here in Southern California Queens rock, our climate is a lot like their native land in Sou-ha'merica, Argentina, Paraguay, southern Brazil. If you have soil that's actual ag dirt, and not alkalai-hell dirt, they just grow like hell. Deep green. Fat, happy. thirty feet in like 7 years. Thick and tough enough to stop monster trucks and yeah, I've seen a number that did.

Full sun, the fuller the better, but will take half a day. 18 inches across the trunks, and the trunks are full of fibers not water. These ain't no candy-assed Roystonea trunks. They use these for pilings in the sea, and "shipworms" don't mess with them. Fibers woven with other fibers, not just "bark" and sponge underneath.

The roots are greedy. (Slapping self to stop editorials.) Weeds and other plants don't like growing beneath them. Good places for gravel/chips etc. for mulch.

The original street view for google maps of my place shows a bunch of queen palms, the year before I had another dude remove them for his palm ranch in Corona. (Tried to get him into other palms, but he said no.)

Still do my best for the volunteer babies. People who want them are glad when I plant them for them, and encourage them to come explore other options.

But, queens rock. Bay-bay, yes they do.

To be continued.

 

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Queen palms 🌴 of Doom.

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Coral Gables, FL 8 miles North of Fairchild USDA Zone 10B

Posted
  On 7/18/2024 at 5:20 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Not sure about the comments about Queen palms mainly being introduced in CA in the ‘80s and ‘90s. As a kid in the early ‘60s, many of my neighbors had large ones in their yards. Some were exceptionally big. As seen in the photos below, one from 1926 and the other more recent, Queen palms have been a staple in California a long long time. I’ve seen them in a few early Three Stooges films from the 1930s and even in a couple of Laurel and Hardy films from the mid 1920s. 
 

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Jim, yes they were around, but spending my early years in LA and Orange County, they were much less common than Washingtonias and the big Phoenix.  I came to San Diego in the 71 and yes there were some Queens here, but not in the saturation like they began to be used in the 80's.  Due to speed of growth, commercial growers and small backyard growers alike could make some cash off flipping them quickly, not something you can do quickly with Butias, Phoenix canariensis and some other species that were present going back to the 20's (ahh, yes the 1920's, not the current 20's).

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Posted
  On 7/18/2024 at 5:20 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Not sure about the comments about Queen palms mainly being introduced in CA in the ‘80s and ‘90s. As a kid in the early ‘60s, many of my neighbors had large ones in their yards. Some were exceptionally big. As seen in the photos below, one from 1926 and the other more recent, Queen palms have been a staple in California a long long time. I’ve seen them in a few early Three Stooges films from the 1930s and even in a couple of Laurel and Hardy films from the mid 1920s. 
 

IMG_9321.jpeg.6e5749bf732634510342f1394aa92c4b.jpeg
IMG_9323.thumb.png.455c7cc63bda3d3549bd70029946b850.png
IMG_9325.thumb.png.8bbe9f8420f7d4c2ada931031afb3533.png
 

 

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Thanks for the pix. I've never seen Queens so tall.

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Posted
  On 7/18/2024 at 4:09 PM, MJSanDiego said:

Even though they are are ubiquitous here in zone 10b (zone 11 at immediate coast) it would be even cooler i

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Zone 11 at the coast in San Diego?  I would love to know where on the San Diego coast that is.  I haven't lived more than a mile from the ocean for the last 36 years and the last decade about 500 meters away, I worked as a lifeguard along the State beaches when I was in college and surfed every break from Del Mar jetties to IB Pier in the dead of winter for over 40 years.  I have experienced sub 40 degree mornings in the surf zone during winter in IB, Coronado, Sunset Cliffs, La Jolla Reefs, Blacks, Del Mar, Swami's and all points north to Oceanside Harbor and yes even Trestles which is technically in San Diego County over those decades.  10B, I can believe in the best spots, but even where I live now it is at best a 10A 500 meters from Pacific's edge.

Sunset map with their 24 is attached and here is their description of Sunset 24: Zone 24 is coldest at the mouths of canyons that channel cold air down from the mountains on clear winter nights. Several such canyons between Laguna Beach and San Clemente are visible on the map. Numerous others touch the coast between San Clemente and the Mexican border. Partly because of the unusually low temperatures created by this canyon action, there is a broad range of winter lows in Zone 24. Winter lows average from 42°F (5°C) in Santa Barbara to 48°F (9°C) in San Diego. Extreme cold averages from 35° to 28°F (2 to –2°C), with all-time lows in the coldest stations at about 20°F (–6°C).

 

san-diego.webp

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Posted
  On 7/18/2024 at 11:56 PM, Tracy said:

Zone 11 at the coast in San Diego?  I would love to know where on the San Diego coast that is.  I haven't lived more than a mile from the ocean for the last 36 years and the last decade about 500 meters away, I worked as a lifeguard along the State beaches when I was in college and surfed every break from Del Mar jetties to IB Pier in the dead of winter for over 40 years.  I have experienced sub 40 degree mornings in the surf zone during winter in IB, Coronado, Sunset Cliffs, La Jolla Reefs, Blacks, Del Mar, Swami's and all points north to Oceanside Harbor and yes even Trestles which is technically in San Diego County over those decades.  10B, I can believe in the best spots, but even where I live now it is at best a 10A 500 meters from Pacific's edge.

Sunset map with their 24 is att

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I use the new 2023 USDA Hardiness Zone Map, which has interactive and zoom features for greater accuracy.  I have attached a screen shot of the zoom in for your reference. You can see the zone 11 (red), at the north Coronado coastline and across the Bay from Point Loma/Liberty Station all the way over to the I-5 to the east, and up through Mission Hills up to Mission Valley Pkwy, with some zone 11 red at the west end of Mission Valley Pkwy as well.  The USDA site also allows you to enter a zip code.  It will tell you the zone, including what that zone was in 2012, the prior map update.  You will see that many of the zip codes that were 10a in 2012, are now 10b. I hope this helps.  Here is the site link as well

2023 USDA Plant Hardiness Zone Map | USDA Plant Hardiness Zone Map

San Diego.jpg

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