Bismarckia death sentence? Our backyard centerpiece appears to have the dreaded weevil.

[ChristianStAug]

Dear Palmtalkers,

I came here for the worst to be confirmed. About a 3 weeks ago I noticed an unusual smell coming from the trunk of our Bismarckia, especially after it rained, but ignored it until I noticed that the trunk was staying damp even after several hot, sunny days.  This afternoon I climbed up to have a better look at things and there was an abundance of wet and stinky fibrous material stuck between the leaf bases. Parts of the trunk under the leaf boots are also oozing stinky slime. When I poked around up there and I believe I came across bits of the beetle exoskeleton. A couple of the upper leaves have completely died in the past week--but was thinking this could have been from too heavy of a hand on the fertilizer about 3 weeks ago. I made a similar mistakes a couple years ago. However, after my investigation, I am thinking it is the start of the crown collapse. 

I just can't believe it has to be this tree. It was a wedding present for my wife and I and the pinnacle of our whole backyard. We have enjoyed it each and everyday. Up until this point, it has never grown so much or gained so much trunk by mid July. You were beginning to see it above our house from the front. It flowered profusely earlier this year. I really feel sick writing this. 😞

Christian

[Silas_Sancona]

39 minutes ago, ChristianStAug said:

Dear Palmtalkers,

I came here for the worst to be confirmed. About a 3 weeks ago I noticed an unusual smell coming from the trunk of our Bismarckia, especially after it rained, but ignored it until I noticed that the trunk was staying damp even after several hot, sunny days.  This afternoon I climbed up to have a better look at things and there was an abundance of wet and stinky fibrous material stuck between the leaf bases. Parts of the trunk under the leaf boots are also oozing stinky slime. When I poked around up there and I believe I came across bits of the beetle exoskeleton. A couple of the upper leaves have completely died in the past week--but was thinking this could have been from too heavy of a hand on the fertilizer about 3 weeks ago. I made a similar mistakes a couple years ago. However, after my investigation, I am thinking it is the start of the crown collapse. 

I just can't believe it has to be this tree. It was a wedding present for my wife and I and the pinnacle of our whole backyard. We have enjoyed it each and everyday. Up until this point, it has never grown so much or gained so much trunk by mid July. You were beginning to see it above our house from the front. It flowered profusely earlier this year. I really feel sick writing this. 😞

Christian

Looking at the maps, Could definitely be signs of Palmetto Weevil activity.  Abdominal portion of the Exo found seems to match also.  https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/130352-Rhynchophorus-cruentatus


....since the other (  https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/304994-Rhynchophorus-palmarum  ) and the other one ( https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/130081-Rhynchophorus-ferrugineus  ) haven't been recorded there.

[ChristianStAug]

I just went out to move the ladder and this came flying in. At least I got to kill one of them.

F#&*!

 

 

[Silas_Sancona]

3 minutes ago, ChristianStAug said:

I just went out to move the ladder and this came flying in. At least I got to kill one of them.

F#&*!

 

 

Yep, Palmetto Weevil..  🤬

 

[sonoranfans]

Yeah The newest leaves on mine were blanched, dried out, then it quickly spread.  I didnt notice the smell because I dont forcibly remove leaf bases on bizzies, they eventually self clear at 12-15' trunk here.  The blanching and shape distortion of the newest leaf looks identical to mine.

[Kekoanui]

Christian, I know the feeling. When I first got into palms,  my brother and I salvaged what would have been the equivalent of a field grown red Latania that the homeowner just thought was an ugly palm.

It was the the centerpiece of my yard for 2 years. After the first infestation of palm weevils, we managed to treat it and it survived another year.

The second time the palm weevils attacked, ultimately was death sentence. But it was fun to look at while it lasted. 

Hope you find a suitable replacement, Copernicia fallaensis, perhaps? 
 

 

 

 

[PalmatierMeg]

My condolences. We lost our oldest, largest Bizzie to palm weevils a few years back. They normally attack weakened Sabals but have a “sweet” tooth for Bismarckias. We cut ours up ASAP then sent it out in the trash to be incinerated with the garbage. You have to destroy them to prevent more infestations.

[ChristianStAug]

Thanks for the kind words, everyone. Reality is setting in. I will try to have the palm down and out of here by this coming weekend. There are three other Bizzies within eye site of this one (on my and adjacent properties), but all much smaller.  Hoping those are not victims. For me, up in zone push territory, a lot of extra disappointment comes with this being a very reliable palm in a place borderline/risky for a lot of my crownshaft stuff. Grrr. I am hearing Copernicia fallenensis is almost as hardy? That is likely what I will put here next. 

The majority of the Canary Island and other large dates around me are falling victim to various diseases (and probably the beetles). If you are going to be conservative with your plantings, it leaves less and less options...

[Las Palmas Norte]

Oh man, that is heart breaking to see such a magnificent Bizmarkia seemingly die so unnecessarily. Are there any known remedies to prevent this from happening?

[PalmatierMeg]

24 minutes ago, ChristianStAug said:

Thanks for the kind words, everyone. Reality is setting in. I will try to have the palm down and out of here by this coming weekend. There are three other Bizzies within eye site of this one (on my and adjacent properties), but all much smaller.  Hoping those are not victims. For me, up in zone push territory, a lot of extra disappointment comes with this being a very reliable palm in a place borderline/risky for a lot of my crownshaft stuff. Grrr. I am hearing Copernicia fallenensis is almost as hardy? That is likely what I will put here next. 

The majority of the Canary Island and other large dates around me are falling victim to various diseases (and probably the beetles). If you are going to be conservative with your plantings, it leaves less and less options...

We had 6 other shorter Bismarckia on the west side of the yard (now down to 2 thanks to Ian). We read that the adult weevils lay their eggs down in the crown/meristem. My research indicated we could deter infestation by:

1. As winter warms into spring we bought bulk pkgs of Ivory Soap bars (Soap, not detergent/deodorant bars - that's important)

2. We cut the Ivory Soap bars into 1-2" pieces

3. Distribute soap pieces deep into the meristem area of each palm

4. Water that treated area well.

5. The soap will melt and spread throughout the leaf initiation zone. Apparently, weevils find soapy Bizzies unsuitable for their offspring and stay away

You must do this early every spring. If you don't, you lose the chance to protect your Bizzies until the following spring. If your Bizzies are infected before then they are almost surely goners. So far, we've had no problems with weevils since we started this protocol. But Bizzies get very tall and we are too old to be climbing ladders to spread soap pieces. Ian solved part of our problem and we have only one tall and one short palm left. But as I discovered, Bismarckia can't survive cat 4/5 hurricanes that rip them out of the ground. I will plant no more of them and the two left are on their own.

It's too late for your beautiful adult palm but maybe not for the smaller ones.

[flplantguy]

Bismarks are joining the no-go list for a lot of people now. Hurricanes, weevils, sensitive roots, and all that.  I love them but have seen the weevil on cut down sabal palms here so i guess thats a no.  Can you get a copernicia of any decent size or are you back to the start? The whole situation sucks thats for sure. Good luck with the new one, whatever it ends up being!

[PalmatierMeg]

Buying, transporting and planting a large Copernicia, i.e., the coveted fallaensis, likely will be eye-poppingly expensive. Do your research to find out their true hardiness - they will love your summers but not your cold, wet winters. They want full sun, high humidity in summer and as much heat as possible. Is that doable on a 3-5 month summer? Plan on consulting many sources but with a grain of salt. If the info sounds too glowing, beware.

Your best source for large Copernicias is Homestead. I'm not sure how many of the many palm nurseries are still left. I believe most of them have been cleared out to build mega mansions for rich Yankees. You may want to plan a trip down down yonder to see for yourself what's available. 

[ChristianStAug]

UPDATE: A buddy of mine in pest control injected into the trunk and then drenched the crown with 25 gallons of Imidacloprid. At the very least I know the beetles and larvae will not proliferate and I won't have the worry about removing ASAP. I doused the other bizzies in proximity with a Bifenthrin solution in case the beetles look for another host. I will follow up with more crown soakings of Imidacloprid and Bifenthrin.

 @PalmatierMeg I have transported palms up here a couple times from Homestead. I work with AJM Nursery and Botanics Wholesale. It is part of the way I have been able to have such an extensive collection of bigger trees for my latitude. I brought up a 45 gallon fallaensis for a friend two years ago! It was around $800. That is about the biggest size you could move without equipment and only brute force of a couple of guys. My backyard is now closed for business regarding any big machinery as my entrances are all cut off by landscaping, trees and fences -- A large hand-planted palm is the biggest I would be able to replace it with.  Thanks for the ivory soap trick. I will add that to my spring regimen for other susceptible palms. 

@flplantguy So beautiful, yet so many problems  

@Las Palmas Norte Yes, you can inject and crown drench with some of the chemicals I mentioned above. There are currently wide-scale attempts across the Mediterranean countries to save the Canary Island Dates, which are in many places, the primary boulevard tree. Municipalities actually install tubing on the sides of the trees so that they can be routinely treated. Unfortunately in SoCal, this is what is going to be required for long term success with CIDP.  The destruction of CIDP has been very apparent on our recent trips to Mexico City as well. There are boulevards of beautiful CIDP just being decimated in a couple years time. I was recently in Croatia and it was mentioned on our tours that even on some of the smaller islands and they are putting a lot of funding and planning into saving their CIDP plantings. 

You would think with this background knowledge on the subject I would have been doing some preventative measures myself, or been more keen to the symptoms like the particular odor, but I have never seen any of the damage firsthand besides an already dead tree, nor had local palm people warn me about it. Even our local nurseries couldn't recommend some who injects palms up here. Perhaps the beetles are not as active up this way or there are just fewer people with susceptible palms to make the business worth while. 

[FlaPalmLover]

Horrible. This has me considering nuking the one in my backyard, but I guess I'll leave it be for now. Hopefully this at least isn't too common with bizzies. They really need to develop a strong biological control for these weevils.

[Billy]

Condolences to you and your bride. I can only begin to imagine the significance of this palm yet still hope that you both find a beautiful replacement.  

[Bkue]

I have a real centerpiece beast Bismarck plus a couple others I don’t mind. How can I prevent this with the one? It would cost $1,000’s to replace now . Not to mention it is shaping up to be one of the fattest I’ve ever seen in person.  

[Phoenikakias]

9 hours ago, ChristianStAug said:

UPDATE: A buddy of mine in pest control injected into the trunk and then drenched the crown with 25 gallons of Imidacloprid. At the very least I know the beetles and larvae will not proliferate and I won't have the worry about removing ASAP. I doused the other bizzies in proximity with a Bifenthrin solution in case the beetles look for another host. I will follow up with more crown soakings of Imidacloprid and Bifenthrin.

 @PalmatierMeg I have transported palms up here a couple times from Homestead. I work with AJM Nursery and Botanics Wholesale. It is part of the way I have been able to have such an extensive collection of bigger trees for my latitude. I brought up a 45 gallon fallaensis for a friend two years ago! It was around $800. That is about the biggest size you could move without equipment and only brute force of a couple of guys. My backyard is now closed for business regarding any big machinery as my entrances are all cut off by landscaping, trees and fences -- A large hand-planted palm is the biggest I would be able to replace it with.  Thanks for the ivory soap trick. I will add that to my spring regimen for other susceptible palms. 

@flplantguy So beautiful, yet so many problems  

@Las Palmas Norte Yes, you can inject and crown drench with some of the chemicals I mentioned above. There are currently wide-scale attempts across the Mediterranean countries to save the Canary Island Dates, which are in many places, the primary boulevard tree. Municipalities actually install tubing on the sides of the trees so that they can be routinely treated. Unfortunately in SoCal, this is what is going to be required for long term success with CIDP.  The destruction of CIDP has been very apparent on our recent trips to Mexico City as well. There are boulevards of beautiful CIDP just being decimated in a couple years time. I was recently in Croatia and it was mentioned on our tours that even on some of the smaller islands and they are putting a lot of funding and planning into saving their CIDP plantings. 

You would think with this background knowledge on the subject I would have been doing some preventative measures myself, or been more keen to the symptoms like the particular odor, but I have never seen any of the damage firsthand besides an already dead tree, nor had local palm people warn me about it. Even our local nurseries couldn't recommend some who injects palms up here. Perhaps the beetles are not as active up this way or there are just fewer people with susceptible palms to make the business worth while. 

I would apply also a meristem fungicide a week later after application of insecticide. Imo you have poured down the apex a horrific amount of imidacloprid solution. Imidacloprid needs some time for spreading to every tissue of the plant through the sap and always only upwards from the spot of application. If you use for injection a solution of imidacloprid with tetrahydrofurfuryl alcohol (prepared from sugar canes) at a 50-50 rate, active substance is supposed to act faster. Organophosphate insecticide chlorpyriphos is supposed to be also very effective at a rate of 3ml /1 lt water combined in a mix with imidacloprid. Last one at a rate of 7ml/lt water (20% active substance offered in European market). Another organophosphate, Dimethoat, turned out to be  100% effective in the protection of palms for whole 4 months when sprayed on the crown as a 2ml/lt water solution.  At least this was the result of a very meticulous experiment conducted in the Arabian peninsula. I just am unsure of  results in the wetter Florida. Also injection of Dimethoat in to the tunnels created by the larvae at a rate of one part insecticide to two parts of water met absolute success in to killing the larvae inside the tunnel.

All that said, refer to treatment of rpw, but I firmly believe that cruentatus and ferrugineus share identical habits, tastes and biology. Also I observe that your plant is still vigorous, meaning that infestation is still not widespread beyond remedy. I managed to save a Pritchardia of mine with four tunnels on the trunk, last one being horribly large. Imho key to the success of your salvaging efforts is persistence in the repetition of treatments, first time after two weeks, and then monthly. For example I suspect that a Livistona decora of mine had been infested by another boring larva of a large moth called Paysandisia archon. After initial trearment with imidacloprid and lambda cyhalothrin last week, I will pour down the apex another 10 lt solution of active substance abamectin in coming weekend.

[Phoenikakias]

A correction: imidacloprid 20% should be applied as foliar spray  at a rate of 4 (and not 7) ml per lt water.

[Steve the palmreader]

On 7/22/2024 at 10:48 AM, ChristianStAug said:

Thanks for the kind words, everyone. Reality is setting in. I will try to have the palm down and out of here by this coming weekend. There are three other Bizzies within eye site of this one (on my and adjacent properties), but all much smaller.  Hoping those are not victims. For me, up in zone push territory, a lot of extra disappointment comes with this being a very reliable palm in a place borderline/risky for a lot of my crownshaft stuff. Grrr. I am hearing Copernicia fallenensis is almost as hardy? That is likely what I will put here next. 

The majority of the Canary Island and other large dates around me are falling victim to various diseases (and probably the beetles). If you are going to be conservative with your plantings, it leaves less and less options...

Copernicia alba is a good choice

[maxum2610]

In my area in Moraira spain, the main treatment for rpw is by injecting the trunk directly. I was able to save two very old canary date palms this way last year, one of which the crown was hanging completely side ways. Infested palms are also treated every 5 weeks with spraying directly into the crown. Do not cut down your palm trees without trying certain options first, such as Entomopathogenic fungi, nematodes, pheromone traps, or just plain trunc injection. They can be saved believe me. 

[ChristianStAug]

POSITIVE NEWS - UPDATE: It has been a week since I confirmed the beetle infestation and 6 days since the crown drench and insecticide injection.  Within 48 hours there was no longer any bleeding or odor from the tree. There has been no worsening of the blanched fronds leaving a couple newer leaves and emerging spears intact above the damaged fronds. I am going to do a fungicide drench tomorrow as I assume larvae tunnels (which must all enter the trunk behind attached leaf boots-- since no holes are visible) are entrance for fungal disease. 

When should I do the next crown drench? It looks like the imidacloprid stays 40-60 days systemically. However, should the next treatment be sooner as some others have mentioned?

And for those who routinely do preventative treatments, what is the frequency and regimen? I assume I could do much lesser amounts (5 gallons in the center of the crown and let it drip down the trunk) a couple times a year.

Can any Floridians comment if the beetle attacks are generally during the heat and rain of the growing season? Can you let your guard down in the cooler months?