Ants eating palm?

[2palm]

Ive had ants under my palm for a while and I cant get rid of them very easy, I was removing some of the old leaf bases (they were falling off so I did the rest) and I noticed a lot of ants inside the palm and little tunnels under the bases I took off. Are the ants eating the palm? Also might be related, the truck is kind of squishy (im still fairly new to palms sorry if its just normal)

"photos" of the tunnels

 

 

 

[MJSanDiego]

Ants are a secondary infestation meaning they don't specifically target or eat palm tree flesh. They usually feed on something else that is there already on the palm or even in the soil such as honeydew from aphids, sap, scale or spidermites. What species of palm? A squishy trunk base does not sound normal.  I would need more information to be able to try to diagnose effectively

[2palm]

10 minutes ago, MJSanDiego said:

Ants are a secondary infestation meaning they don't specifically target or eat palm tree flesh. They usually feed on something else that is there already on the palm or even in the soil such as honeydew from aphids, sap, scale or spidermites. What species of palm? A squishy trunk base does not sound normal.  I would need more information to be able to try to diagnose effectively

It’s a washingtonia robusta (Mexican fan palm) about 4 years old. It doesn’t have any spider mites of insects it would feed off of.

[MJSanDiego]

Ok thank you for the info.  I don't know what the ants are after then but they have to be eating something. If you remove the boots and the trunk beneath is soft that does not sound right. It could be nothing to do with the ants, or it could be root rot, trunk rot, fungus, or something else. Sorry I don't have any concrete answers. Hopefully someone else with reply with more expertise

[MJSanDiego]

Oh one more thing. I don't know if you are removing soil or rocks to diagnose but it looks like the palm had been planted too high which could cause issues, maybe others can confirm or not

[Looking Glass]

Ants don’t normally directly eat palms, but do farm and protect palm-sucking insects like scale and mealybugs, etc….  They indirectly indicate a problem with young palms sometimes.  The ants can be helpful in older, mature palms in areas where termites are a problem.  Ants are quite good at destroying/preventing termite colonies.  

Check the roots for mealybugs.  

Getting rid of ants in a single potted palm is pretty easy.  Get some ant bait gel, and place near where they are coming and going.  Don’t disturb the ants.  Let them feed and distribute it throughout the colony.   After a few days the whole colony will be sick and dying.  Then finish them off with a blast of bifenthrin on and around the plant. 

[MJSanDiego]

6 minutes ago, Looking Glass said:

Ants don’t normally directly eat palms, but do farm and protect palm-sucking insects like scale and mealybugs, etc….  They indirectly indicate a problem with young palms sometimes.  The ants can be helpful in older, mature palms in areas where termites are a problem.  Ants are quite good at destroying/preventing termite colonies.  

Check the roots for mealybugs.  

Getting rid of ants in a single potted palm is pretty easy.  Get some ant bait gel, and place near where they are coming and going.  Don’t disturb the ants.  Let them feed and distribute it throughout the colony.   After a few days the whole colony will be sick and dying.  Then finish them off with a blast of bifenthrin on and around the plant. 

OP already stated above to my first reply that there were no insects that the ants are feeding off of

[2palm]

16 minutes ago, MJSanDiego said:

OP already stated above to my first reply that there were no insects that the ants are feeding off of

this was quite recent and after some inspection in the sun, there is a few small beetles about 1/8inch long (they werent mealybugs though). but didnt see many, might not even be the issue. also just repotted a few weeks ago and no mealybugs.

[2palm]

oh and they looked like normal beetles not any scale bugs

[Looking Glass]

3 hours ago, MJSanDiego said:

OP already stated above to my first reply that there were no insects that the ants are feeding off of

Sometimes people forget to check the underground roots for mealybugs.  But the repot would have revealed them.  Often they’ll be around the wall of the pot underground and people won’t notice.  

2 hours ago, 2palm said:

this was quite recent and after some inspection in the sun, there is a few small beetles about 1/8inch long (they werent mealybugs though). but didnt see many, might not even be the issue. also just repotted a few weeks ago and no mealybugs.

Once you’ve ruled out any problems with the palm, you’re probably good.  Most of the potted palms I have outside have ant colonies in the pots, and there are 100s or 1,000s of ants under every single leaf base on every palm in my yard.  As long as they stay outside and aren’t farming pests in the young, fragile palms in pots, you’ll likely be ok.  

[2palm]

1 minute ago, Looking Glass said:

Sometimes people forget to check the underground roots for mealybugs.  But the repot would have revealed them.  Often they’ll be around the wall of the pot underground and people won’t notice.  

Once you’ve ruled out any problems with the palm, you’re probably good.  Most of the potted palms I have outside have ant colonies in the pots, and there are 100s or 1,000s of ants under every single leaf base on every palm in my yard.  As long as they stay outside and aren’t farming pests in the young, fragile palms in pots, you’ll likely be ok.  

i have seen some small isolpods in the soil so in putting it up on a pallet to reduce ants and using some diatomaceous earth so no hopefully more beetle looking things. i am still a bit worried about the squish in the base though.

[Looking Glass]

24 minutes ago, 2palm said:

i have seen some small isolpods in the soil so in putting it up on a pallet to reduce ants and using some diatomaceous earth so no hopefully more beetle looking things. i am still a bit worried about the squish in the base though.

Squish in the base can be rot for sure.  Any leaking or putrid smell?   That might be a different issue from the ants.   

It’s not uncommon for me to find Brahminy Blindsnakes here in the pots when I transplant healthy palms.  They feed on the ant larva in there and look like black worms, but with tiny flicking tongues.  Weirdest little things….

(internet photos)

[Silas_Sancona]

32 minutes ago, 2palm said:

i have seen some small isolpods in the soil so in putting it up on a pallet to reduce ants and using some diatomaceous earth so no hopefully more beetle looking things. i am still a bit worried about the squish in the base though.

Isopods, aka: Pill / Sowbugs also won't harm a thing.. Being strictly decomposers, they are attracted by decomposing organic matter.

[2palm]

1 minute ago, Looking Glass said:

Any leaking or putrid smell?

no its just a bit squishy. not to worried about rot with no smell. i cut out a very small area (less then 1/3 and inch) and it looked a bit brown but for the most part normal. i might be over reacting, this is only my first of 2 palms.

[Merlyn]

@2palm the pictures are a little blurry, but the "holes" look a bit like cracks.  The base of palms frequently splits a bit as the trunk grows to mature diameter.  If that's what happened then it is probably "normal."  

I'd agree it is a bit too high in the ground, generally you want it right at the RIZ (Root Initiation Zone).  That's right at where the big round roots come out of the base.  Being planted slightly high is safer for rot than a little too low, but MJ is correct it can cause "air girdling" and future growth problems.  Here's a good tutorial on planting depth from a PTer, I think he is a local Palm Society Director.  http://www.marriedtoplants.com/palms/palm-tree-growing-tips-mounding/

[2palm]

On 7/26/2024 at 9:31 PM, Merlyn said:

@2palm the pictures are a little blurry, but the "holes" look a bit like cracks.  The base of palms frequently splits a bit as the trunk grows to mature diameter.  If that's what happened then it is probably "normal."  

I'd agree it is a bit too high in the ground, generally you want it right at the RIZ (Root Initiation Zone).  That's right at where the big round roots come out of the base.  Being planted slightly high is safer for rot than a little too low, but MJ is correct it can cause "air girdling" and future growth problems.  Here's a good tutorial on planting depth from a PTer, I think he is a local Palm Society Director.  http://www.marriedtoplants.com/palms/palm-tree-growing-tips-mounding/

Sorry for the late reply. I was skeptical of it just being cracks and thats why i was asking if the ants were eating it.I added what was left of the bag of soil I have an the roots arent as exposed. Thanks for the tips!