Help with King Palm

[baytobreakers]

Hi all,

new here. Hoping you can provide some advice for this king palm. Planted back in February. Two spears are growing but have not opened. It is in the Berkeley area and west facing so gets afternoon sun. I have seen several healthy king palms in the neighborhood so I’m at a loss for how to encourage its growth. 

[thyerr01]

Water, lots more water.

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, baytobreakers said:

Hi all,

new here. Hoping you can provide some advice for this king palm. Planted back in February. Two spears are growing but have not opened. It is in the Berkeley area and west facing so gets afternoon sun. I have seen several healthy king palms in the neighborhood so I’m at a loss for how to encourage its growth. 

Bay To Breakers, Welcome to the forum..

As mentioned, these are absolute water hogs.  ...Like a deep soak  ...where the entire root ball is thoroughly soaked  ...3X's a week ( Hose on low, for an hour )  and can even grow with their toes in water..  Don't get enough water, they show how much they dislike going thirsty pretty quickly.

Since they're fairly new, and stressed atm,  no fertilizer,  other than diluted  Kelp  and /or Fish Emulsion  until next spring.

[Patrick]

Water. 

[Patrick]

1 minute ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Bay To Breakers, Welcome to the forum..

As mentioned, these are absolute water hogs.  ...Like a deep soak  ...where the entire root ball is thoroughly soaked  ...3X's a week ( Hose on low, for an hour )  and can even grow with their toes in water..  Don't get enough water, they show how much they dislike going thirsty pretty quickly.

Since they're fairly new, and stressed atm,  no fertilizer,  other than diluted  Kelp  and /or Fish Emulsion  until next spring.

Fish emulsion- Nas-TAY! I just got done running around with my watering can loaded with the stuff lol. It's awesome. 

[BayAndroid]

Lots more water and mulch to hold that moisture.

[Darold Petty]

Yah, What everyone else said !     Visit me sometime if you wish to see a tiny, congested 42 year old garden.

Welcome to Palmtalk !   

[Jim in Los Altos]

That soil appears to be exceptionally dry in your photos. King palms are semi-aquatic palms and need moist-wet soil at all times to grow and prosper. They tolerate cool temperatures well but not dry soil. You can’t overwater them but it’s really easy to underwater them. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

16 hours ago, Patrick said:

 

 

 

[MJSanDiego]

I agree this soil looks dry. But as I found out, you can most certainly overwater a King palm especially in clay soil and cooler temps. I killed 5. I know it was overwatering because the roots were healthy when transplanted from nursery pot. When I dug them up, many of the roots were mushy and black. I suspect if they are grown in a swamp from seed its different than from nursery pot to clay soil

[baytobreakers]

Thanks all! Will increase watering with a slow-release tree watering bag and use fish emulsion. Any idea why the first spear may not have opened?

[Jim in Los Altos]

1 hour ago, MJSanDiego said:

I agree this soil looks dry. But as I found out, you can most certainly overwater a King palm especially in clay soil and cooler temps. I killed 5. I know it was overwatering because the roots were healthy when transplanted from nursery pot. When I dug them up, many of the roots were mushy and black. I suspect if they are grown in a swamp from seed its different than from nursery pot to clay soil

I’ve got thriving King palms in stagnant water engulfing their entire root structures 365 days per year including of course during the chilliest winter time. They’re growing in what used to be a koi pond so no drain holes and water right up to their trunks. No foolin’! Not sure what was going on with yours but I also have an insanely deep green healthy trio growing in some clay areas that was fill for an old swimming pool. The clay is as dense as any. During chilly winter rains it becomes a bog.  These King palms thrive in that too. 

 

[MJSanDiego]

12 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

I’ve got thriving King palms in stagnant water engulfing their entire root structures 365 days per year including of course during the chilliest winter time. They’re growing in what used to be a koi pond so no drain holes and water right up to their trunks. No foolin’! Not sure what was going on with yours but I also have an insanely deep green healthy trio growing in some clay areas that was fill for an old swimming pool. The clay is as dense as any. During chilly winter rains it becomes a bog.  These King palms thrive in that too. 

Guess I just got unlucky. Maybe I will try again. Here is a question. I know the existing fronds will burn up when planted because they are all grown in shade and even sitting under sun shades at Home Depot. I also know the new fronds that emerge will be sun acclimated mostly. The question is, at what temperature in full sun and say 50% humidity during the day will they still get sunburn? And say 90 degrees and 10% hunidity (Santa Ana winds let's say) how will they do?  It's my understanding they are not necessarily a full sun sunrise to sunset palm day in and day out like a queen depending on temps and hunidity of course 

[MJSanDiego]

13 hours ago, baytobreakers said:

Thanks all! Will increase watering with a slow-release tree watering bag and use fish emulsion. Any idea why the first spear may not have opened?

I would suggest Vitamin B-1. Gallon container at Home Depot it really helps with transplant shock and root stimulation. The other option is Superthrive it's in a small bottle concentrated at Home Depot. I have had great success with both of these products over many years

[Jim in Los Altos]

7 hours ago, MJSanDiego said:

Guess I just got unlucky. Maybe I will try again. Here is a question. I know the existing fronds will burn up when planted because they are all grown in shade and even sitting under sun shades at Home Depot. I also know the new fronds that emerge will be sun acclimated mostly. The question is, at what temperature in full sun and say 50% humidity during the day will they still get sunburn? And say 90 degrees and 10% hunidity (Santa Ana winds let's say) how will they do?  It's my understanding they are not necessarily a full sun sunrise to sunset palm day in and day out like a queen depending on temps and hunidity of course 

The first photo is one of my youngest and is in full all day sun and June and July this year had several brutally hot days 95°-107°F with low humidity and there’s not a single burned leaf. It’s growing in wet clay with only the top 6” of soil being loam. 
 

Most of my Kings are in groves however, which helps them tolerate both heat and chill as well as wind than solitary ones. The video shows how they get blasted certain times of the year. Desert climates and very hot inland areas in CA would almost certainly require full shade. 
 

 

 

[MJSanDiego]

9 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

The first photo is one of my youngest and is in full all day sun and June and July this year had several brutally hot days 95°-107°F with low humidity and there’s not a single burned leaf. It’s growing in wet clay with only the top 6” of soil being loam. 
 

Most of my Kings are in groves however, which helps them tolerate both heat and chill as well as wind than solitary ones. The video shows how they get blasted certain times of the year. Desert climates and very hot inland areas in CA would almost certainly require full shade. 

 

Thanks.  I think that 6 inches of loam that you have on top might be of significance. Mine were planted right into the native clay, with no top layer of anything.  Perhaps I should mound them slightly, as I did with the Foxtails. The ones they are selling here at Home Depot are Alexandrea, not Cunninghamiana.  Is that of any significance?  It rarely gets above 86 degrees here, and rarely below 40 during the coldest winter nights.

[Jim in Los Altos]

2 hours ago, MJSanDiego said:

Thanks.  I think that 6 inches of loam that you have on top might be of significance. Mine were planted right into the native clay, with no top layer of anything.  Perhaps I should mound them slightly, as I did with the Foxtails. The ones they are selling here at Home Depot are Alexandrea, not Cunninghamiana.  Is that of any significance?  It rarely gets above 86 degrees here, and rarely below 40 during the coldest winter nights.

I should clarify about the loam. That 6” of loam is only a 1 foot radius around the palm’s trunks. It’s solid yellow clay at the surface everywhere else in the vicinity just covered with a layer of wood mulch. Solid clay several feet down as well. 
 

I only have one A. alexandrae and it’s got about 15 feet of trunk. It was a seedling when planted. It’s in a mix of average topsoil and clay. It’s done well in its full sun position. Its terming is very wide at its base. 

[MJSanDiego]

@Jim in Los Altos Any specific reason why you mostly have Cunninghamiana? One thing I don't like about Home Depot is the vendors grow them three per pot, even in one gallon pots. I know many like this clumped look especially as the trunks curve outward as they grow, but I am wierd and prefer single specimen palms with straight trunks. On one King I removed the two small ones and the big palm did not appreciate my tampering!!

[Jim in Los Altos]

5 hours ago, MJSanDiego said:

@Jim in Los Altos Any specific reason why you mostly have Cunninghamiana? One thing I don't like about Home Depot is the vendors grow them three per pot, even in one gallon pots. I know many like this clumped look especially as the trunks curve outward as they grow, but I am wierd and prefer single specimen palms with straight trunks. On one King I removed the two small ones and the big palm did not appreciate my tampering!!

I have 132 palm species in the garden. The King palms provided quick overhead protection for the many shade and partial shade loving species in the garden. The other reason is that King palms are very tropical in appearance and they are self cleaning, dropping very lightweight dry old fronds. Also, many of my Archies are ‘Illawara’ which grow way faster and more robustly than standard Kings. I also have purpurea, myolensis, and alexandrae. The Queen palms in my landscape are lush and healthy but they often drop very damaging fronds and especially heavy boots and inflorescence pods. They are expensive to keep maintained.
 

I’ve never purchased Home Depot Kings. They always look weak to me. I have gotten some very nice ones at Lowe’s however. They often have single trunked specimens too.
 

The best way to remove unwanted ones in triples is to simply saw them to the ground. Never try to extract them from the soil. It disturbs the one that you want to keep. The stumps will rot away.  

[MJSanDiego]

8 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

I have 132 palm species in the garden. The King palms provided quick overhead protection for the many shade and partial shade loving species in the garden. The other reason is that King palms are very tropical in appearance and they are self cleaning, dropping very lightweight dry old fronds. Also, many of my Archies are ‘Illawara’ which grow way faster and more robustly than standard Kings. I also have purpurea, myolensis, and alexandrae. The Queen palms in my landscape are lush and healthy but they often drop very damaging fronds and especially heavy boots and inflorescence pods. They are expensive to keep maintained.
 

I’ve never purchased Home Depot Kings. They always look weak to me. I have gotten some very nice ones at Lowe’s however. They often have single trunked specimens too.
 

The best way to remove unwanted ones in triples is to simply saw them to the ground. Never try to extract them from the soil. It disturbs the one that you want to keep. The stumps will rot away.  

Ok thanks. I meant was there a reason you prefer Cunninghamiana over Alexandrea? I never grow anything under the Queens except some ground cover succulents because I know when you cut the seed pods and old fronds that is some heavy damaging crashola smashola! 🙂

[Foggy Paul]

1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

The King palms provided quick overhead protection for the many shade and partial shade loving species in the garden. The other reason is that King palms are very tropical in appearance and they are self cleaning, dropping very lightweight dry old fronds.

This is why my wife and I have just made the somewhat difficult decision to add a king or two to our limited space garden. I'm a little concerned about wind resistance, but it can't be any worse for a king than it is for our baby Geonoma.

[Jim in Los Altos]

2 hours ago, Foggy Paul said:

This is why my wife and I have just made the somewhat difficult decision to add a king or two to our limited space garden. I'm a little concerned about wind resistance, but it can't be any worse for a king than it is for our baby Geonoma.

Hit the arrow on the video link a few comments up if you want to see wind resistance.

[MJSanDiego]

Hey @Jim in Los Altos do you think it is less risky purchasing a 10 or 15 gallon king palm into my clay soil versus the 1 gallon pot babies? I always understood smaller on King palms especially were easier to establish. We have killed too many 1 gallon King palms from nursery pot to clay soil

[MJSanDiego]

Maybe I try Lowe's instead of Home Depot. One King got pink fungus, pink dust attached to the trunk base and behind the shafts and I dont think I caused that. I think it was infected already when purchased 

[Jim in Los Altos]

15 gallon ones will be easier to initially establish than one gallon ones. A good number of my tall ones, however, are volunteers that I left in place when the seeds sprouted. I have to pull hundreds of King seedlings out every year. Probably thousands over the years. They are VERY prolific. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

2 minutes ago, MJSanDiego said:

Maybe I try Lowe's instead of Home Depot. One King got pink fungus, pink dust attached to the trunk base and behind the shafts and I dont think I caused that. I think it was infected already when purchased 

Pink rot fungus is normally not a worry if it only appears behind old rotting crown shaft boots. I’ve seen it many times particularly during the cool rainy season. 

[MJSanDiego]

Okay thanks, it was during the rainy season. I planted it in December. I returned it at Home Depot anyway. Are they as prolific as queens as far as seedlings?

[Jim in Los Altos]

6 minutes ago, MJSanDiego said:

Okay thanks, it was during the rainy season. I planted it in December. I returned it at Home Depot anyway. Are they as prolific as queens as far as seedlings?

In my yard, the Kings are much more prolific than the Queens even though the Queens drop just as many fruits/seeds to the ground. I get dense carpets of King palm seedlings versus sporadic Queen palm seedling sightings. 

[MJSanDiego]

Ok thanks. Do you think it's best to plant them now to encourage more rapid growth from heat, or later like November or later for better acclimating to full sun since they come shade grown?

[FlaPalmLover]

4 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

I have 132 palm species in the garden. The King palms provided quick overhead protection for the many shade and partial shade loving species in the garden. The other reason is that King palms are very tropical in appearance and they are self cleaning, dropping very lightweight dry old fronds. Also, many of my Archies are ‘Illawara’ which grow way faster and more robustly than standard Kings. I also have purpurea, myolensis, and alexandrae. The Queen palms in my landscape are lush and healthy but they often drop very damaging fronds and especially heavy boots and inflorescence pods. They are expensive to keep maintained.
 

I’ve never purchased Home Depot Kings. They always look weak to me. I have gotten some very nice ones at Lowe’s however. They often have single trunked specimens too.
 

The best way to remove unwanted ones in triples is to simply saw them to the ground. Never try to extract them from the soil. It disturbs the one that you want to keep. The stumps will rot away.  

The lightweight nature of the fronds is a bit of a downfall here in Florida, though, potentially. I got a 3 g quad and it's staked up currently, but its fronds definitely move around a bunch in the wind. I may saw off one of them if it gets to a mature size and it doesn't look right with all four trunks. I'm hoping it will grow a strong trunk to help it withstand winds when hurricanes come.

[Jim in Los Altos]

3 hours ago, MJSanDiego said:

Ok thanks. Do you think it's best to plant them now to encourage more rapid growth from heat, or later like November or later for better acclimating to full sun since they come shade grown?

Any time of year is fine in our USDA zones. I’ve planted them in mid winter and in mid summer and other times of the year and it hasn’t made much difference. 

[MJSanDiego]

10 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Any time of year is fine in our USDA zones. I’ve planted them in mid winter and in mid summer and other times of the year and it hasn’t made much difference. 

Okay. The last ones I planted in October started out well except for unsightly transition sun burn but they were opening up a new spear or two until they stopped growing. I’ve never had any issues growing any palm except Kings. What zone are you in? Do you have any Wodyetia?  I have two I got from Home Depot and they are doing so well and in the same spots two of the Kings were in. Full sun sunrise to sunset

[Jim in Los Altos]

3 hours ago, MJSanDiego said:

Okay. The last ones I planted in October started out well except for unsightly transition sun burn but they were opening up a new spear or two until they stopped growing. I’ve never had any issues growing any palm except Kings. What zone are you in? Do you have any Wodyetia?  I have two I got from Home Depot and they are doing so well and in the same spots two of the Kings were in. Full sun sunrise to sunset

I just removed my only Wodyetia. It was in the ground 10 years and put on many feet of trunk but its canopy never looked attractive. The fronds were always marred with flaws. Right next to where it was is a same aged Foxy Lady that has grown at double the speed of the pure Wodyetia and pretty much always looks good. I’m in zone 10a. No temperature below 33° since 2007. 

[MJSanDiego]

55 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

I just removed my only Wodyetia. It was in the ground 10 years and put on many feet of trunk but its canopy never looked attractive. The fronds were always marred with flaws. Right next to where it was is a same aged Foxy Lady that has grown at double the speed of the pure Wodyetia and pretty much always looks good. I’m in zone 10a. No temperature below 33° since 

I've newer seen a foxy lady at HD or Lowe's. Those are my go to places solely because of the 1 year guarantee. Maybe I get a foxy lady someday! 🙂

[Jim in Los Altos]

37 minutes ago, MJSanDiego said:

I've newer seen a foxy lady at HD or Lowe's. Those are my go to places solely because of the 1 year guarantee. Maybe I get a foxy lady someday! 🙂

Foxy Lady palms (Veitchia x Wodyetia) would never be available at Home Depot or Lowe’s since they only deal with high volume common species for the most part. If I relied solely on those two sources, my garden would be sparse by comparison. eBay, Etsy, and specialty palm nurseries like Floribunda are where most of my species were sourced. 

[MJSanDiego]

17 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Foxy Lady palms (Veitchia x Wodyetia) would never be available at Home Depot or Lowe’s since they only deal with high volume common species for the most part. If I relied solely on those two sources, my garden would be sparse by comparison. eBay, Etsy, and specialty palm nurseries like Floribunda are where most of my species were sourced. 

Okay. I think I will first try one more time with a King from Lowes. I don't know why some of us have difficulty growing these. But some claim they are the easiest to grow, even easier than Queens!

[MJSanDiego]

24 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Foxy Lady palms (Veitchia x Wodyetia) would never be available at Home Depot or Lowe’s since they only deal with high volume common species for the most part. If I relied solely on those two sources, my garden would be sparse by comparison. eBay, Etsy, and specialty palm nurseries like Floribunda are where most of my species were sourced. 

I don't know if you consider Wodyetia Foxtail a high volume species but a few of our local Home Depots had a nice stock of 10 gallon ones very large and healthy so I bought two a few months ago and they are doing well

[Jim in Los Altos]

2 hours ago, MJSanDiego said:

I don't know if you consider Wodyetia Foxtail a high volume species but a few of our local Home Depots had a nice stock of 10 gallon ones very large and healthy so I bought two a few months ago and they are doing well

Exceptionally common but very desirable nonetheless. 

[cdpmath]

Jim, you have beautiful palm trees!!! Thank you for sharing your experience and I am all ears with all the advice given. I’d like to share photos of my King Palms as I think, after reading here, that my   Issue is a lack of water. Please confirm. I would also like to ask how much to water…how many gallons on average per week? Also, I just started fertilizing about a month ago with a fertilizer I got from Home Depot. Is this a good fertilizer ? What other fertilizer would you suggest I use? Thank you.

[Phoenikakias]

On 7/31/2024 at 11:42 PM, Jim in Los Altos said:

I have 132 palm species in the garden. The King palms provided quick overhead protection for the many shade and partial shade loving species in the garden. The other reason is that King palms are very tropical in appearance and they are self cleaning, dropping very lightweight dry old fronds. Also, many of my Archies are ‘Illawara’ which grow way faster and more robustly than standard Kings. I also have purpurea, myolensis, and alexandrae. The Queen palms in my landscape are lush and healthy but they often drop very damaging fronds and especially heavy boots and inflorescence pods. They are expensive to keep maintained.
 

I’ve never purchased Home Depot Kings. They always look weak to me. I have gotten some very nice ones at Lowe’s however. They often have single trunked specimens too.
 

The best way to remove unwanted ones in triples is to simply saw them to the ground. Never try to extract them from the soil. It disturbs the one that you want to keep. The stumps will rot away.  

Jim, have you noticed that some Bangalow palms have slender stems (perhaps like Ptychosperma), which seems being independant from the water they receive? I have such a specimen, but I am still unsure whether this particular feature was caused by lack of water or the shady conditions or is pure genetics. Anyway this plant turned out quite cold hardy in my climate, as it had experienced  settled snow on its fronds for three consecutive years and temps near or slightly below 0 C for some hours. It never showed any cold damage, although never protected. The only damage it suffers is caused by two hot days for a prolonged time, although I think horticultural practice may have played also a significant role (e.g. watering during the hottest part of the day, use of slow release fertilizer, which perhaps nevertheless led to salt accumulation). This year I used only compost and the palm up to now seems unaffected by the prolonged hot conditions (except ridding faster two older semi scorched fronds). In fact, given the girth of new growth, I expect to bloom for the first time during coming cool/cold season. I mentioned all those details, in order to showcase that it not a weak and sick exemplar. I had also come across a specimen with such a thin trunk in a public, old greenhouse, where soil in the planters remains always moist.