Palm police AKA homeowner insurance

[Harry’s Palms]

I am in Southern California real close to where the Thomas fire originated. We were evacuated but , fortunately , our house and property were unscathed. We have concrete tile roof with no exposed wood eaves or facia( code when our house was built). I do have palms so I was cancelled by my insurance company and told I was ineligible for renewal. I notified my broker and he found an insurance company to cover our 27 year old home that was remodeled 2 years ago. The problem is they use companies with drones to look at your landscaping , and, you may want to cover your children’s ears , they HATE palm trees! Well , I’m a palmy kind of guy . I was told I have to “hurricane cut” my Queen palms ( 6 ) and the Washingtonia down on my hill. I guess I was lucky . A neighbor on the other side of the hill ( also a palmy guy) was told by his insurance company to remove all palms within 6’ of the house! Anyway , just a heads up , I’m not sure if this is going on in other areas but get ready …. The Palm police are coming. Harry

[Patrick]

Ugh that sucks! Too many Washingtonia videos on YouTube of the shag going up in flames and they've made the marginalization decision that all palms are bad. The worst is that you can't argue. Its their way or the highway. 

 

I would love to press the question with them and see what it is about the palms that make them unacceptable and also 100% want to speak with the capitalist bureaucrat that made the sweeping, uneducated NPC decision that "palms bad". I want a real answer. Is it the shag? How are they flammable in your opinion as a corporation? I don't DO "shag". I specifically planted my yard to NOT have the crappy (and I say it with love, ladies and gents) shaggy palms that catch on fire and look like hell when untrimmed- as is common to people that just don't get it when it comes to palms, or homeownership.

 

What about Italian Cypress? I personally was at work like 4 months ago (horray for me for going to work all by myself) and 0 responded (well before fire etc.) to a backyard fire and those trees have so much oil it looked like a scene from hell out the back sliding glass door. The folks at the house had 9 dogs in kennels and 3 dogs loose and we were trying to get everyone and everything out before the house went up. There were embers everywhere and those things went UP--- HOT! So now we're gonna uninsure the International Italian Cypress Society, too? Where does it stop?

 

Tyrants. 

 

You may be right and I feel that eventually this may come to my doorstep as well. 

[Harry’s Palms]

It is upsetting and , as you say, no way to fight it . Here in California , yes , fire is a concern . Palms can catch fire , I get it , but after the huge fire that ravaged our area , many various palms were still standing in yards where houses were and they were still green , hoses were gone. . A local fire inspector told me a lot of the destruction was where embers entered crawl spaces through gable vents. I even told my broker that right across the street from my home is a fire hydrant. “ That doesn’t matter, but those darn palms”….. Harry

[Patrick]

1 hour ago, Harry’s Palms said:

It is upsetting and , as you say, no way to fight it . Here in California , yes , fire is a concern . Palms can catch fire , I get it , but after the huge fire that ravaged our area , many various palms were still standing in yards where houses were and they were still green , hoses were gone. . A local fire inspector told me a lot of the destruction was where embers entered crawl spaces through gable vents. I even told my broker that right across the street from my home is a fire hydrant. “ That doesn’t matter, but those darn palms”….. Harry

That SHAG.... dammit.

[happypalms]

That’s insane Harry how ridiculous I fully understand your situation on the fires my property backs onto state forest and then national parks we constantly get fires around pretty well much every season it’s a great joy living in the bush the only reason I would sell is because of fires I fear the day my garden gets destroyed by fire you can replace a garden not a life if it comes to that iam starting up the fire fighter pump turning on the sprinklers on the roof getting the my wife and cat and leaving it to the gods and hopefully I can return to my home when it’s all over my insurance company is quite fair but last time I  renewed my insurance I was told they don’t replace walls only the full house so I was basically told to let it burn to get full cover we have council regulations that are very strict on new dwellings with so many things you have to do just to get your house approved so the insurance companies have left it up to council regulations to enforce the regulations but you will pay extra if your home is in a bushfire prone area on the other hand you can’t get flood insurance if your home is in a flood zone Australia a sun burnt country burning one day flooding the next.

Richard 

[happypalms]

10 hours ago, Patrick said:

Ugh that sucks! Too many Washingtonia videos on YouTube of the shag going up in flames and they've made the marginalization decision that all palms are bad. The worst is that you can't argue. Its their way or the highway. 

 

I would love to press the question with them and see what it is about the palms that make them unacceptable and also 100% want to speak with the capitalist bureaucrat that made the sweeping, uneducated NPC decision that "palms bad". I want a real answer. Is it the shag? How are they flammable in your opinion as a corporation? I don't DO "shag". I specifically planted my yard to NOT have the crappy (and I say it with love, ladies and gents) shaggy palms that catch on fire and look like hell when untrimmed- as is common to people that just don't get it when it comes to palms, or homeownership.

 

What about Italian Cypress? I personally was at work like 4 months ago (horray for me for going to work all by myself) and 0 responded (well before fire etc.) to a backyard fire and those trees have so much oil it looked like a scene from hell out the back sliding glass door. The folks at the house had 9 dogs in kennels and 3 dogs loose and we were trying to get everyone and everything out before the house went up. There were embers everywhere and those things went UP--- HOT! So now we're gonna uninsure the International Italian Cypress Society, too? Where does it stop?

 

Tyrants. 

 

You may be right and I feel that eventually this may come to my doorstep as well. 

Try living in the Australian bush it’s like living in a box of matches on a  43 degree Celsius day.

[happypalms]

When you see this it’s time to go to the beach you cannot stop it your life becomes the only thing you think of everything else stops and you think should I stay or should I go I know what Iam going to do palms or no palms.

[Harry’s Palms]

Very scary! We had just enough time to get out with our cats and a box of important papers. The driving force behind the fire was wind and we are on the south side of the hill so as soon as the fire topped the hill it headed towards Ventura where it took out 500 homes before heading up the coast towards Montecito . On its way it hit a palm farm next to the beach. What a mess! It was a tremendous loss for a lot of people . I guess my point is that dried brush that is not cleared or dead trees that are not removed or yards that are not maintained can be a factor but to just go after palm trees is absurd. My yard is very well maintained and I normally trim the palms in the Fall before those dry east winds come . But to cancel my insurance because someone flew a drone over my house and saw palm trees is not logical. None of my palms are overgrown and , other than my canopy Queens (6) just understory palms that are well watered and maintained. I guess my point is that the fire was caused by the power company not maintaining their equipment which was a huge liability for them so now we pay triple for electricity and triple for homeowners insurance . As I said , a lot of palms did not burn even when everything around was gone . Harry

[Phoenikakias]

 Next time show them these pictures from Greece

[Phoenikakias]

A very good and credible friend of mine watched recently a live report on tv of a wild fire, whereby reporter's cam caught Washie skirt in flames. So he recorded needed time for the skirt to burn off completely. It turned out a matter of 1 min.  He made the assessment that within 1 min fire lacks necessary time to delop sufficiently high temps for its further widespread.

[Las Palmas Norte]

23 hours ago, Harry’s Palms said:

... I do have palms so I was cancelled by my insurance company and told I was ineligible for renewal. ...

That would disqualify at least 85% of properties in SoCal. I suppose other landscaping trees don't catch fire? 🤣

[tinman10101]

So ironic that I was gonna post @Harry’s Palms about the same subject.  I was cancelled by my insurance last week because my canopy tree was over my roof line.  I just had the whole canopy tree cut down yesterday and now I'm sorry to say, most of my palms on the tropical side is probably gonna die including a huge foxy lady.  Regardless, I was opted to upload my photos to their site to appeal with obstruction taken care of.  I hear even if you take care of the obstruction, they will not renew so I will see in 5 business days.  

I did obtain a copy of their report.  It is so ridiculous!!!!  The report looks like a 5th grader did it with an aerial pic of my house on google maps and a red arrow pointing to my tree obstructing my roof.  That was all they needed to cancel my insurance.  Now I am dreading to have to cut down all my other prized palms now that they are growing fairly large over my roof.  Not yet but I have anxiety over it. 

I live well into the city and not abutting any open space so I am not sure why my insurance, very famous company, is doing this but they just want out with any reason.  I dread looking for a new insurance company knowing it will probably be 3-5x more than what I currently pay now.  Geez .... so nice that these companies lived off the profits for so long and now they are leaving us high and dry.  

😠!

[Harry’s Palms]

I don’t believe the palms are the issue. I think the issue in California is the  low humidity combined with the Santa Ana winds . Any spark will start a wildfire and , unless there is no vegetation at all , it will spread. I’ve lived in Ventura County since about 1960 . I can remember , when I was younger , the fires on the hillsides. Of course back then , there weren’t many homes , so losses weren’t that great. Plus houses were pretty affordable. A number of things have contributed to this “crises” but whether or not I have palm trees in my yard is not a major factor , more like an excuse for these companies to back out and reduce liability. Harry

[tinman10101]

12 hours ago, Harry’s Palms said:

I don’t believe the palms are the issue. I think the issue in California is the  low humidity combined with the Santa Ana winds . Any spark will start a wildfire and , unless there is no vegetation at all , it will spread. I’ve lived in Ventura County since about 1960 . I can remember , when I was younger , the fires on the hillsides. Of course back then , there weren’t many homes , so losses weren’t that great. Plus houses were pretty affordable. A number of things have contributed to this “crises” but whether or not I have palm trees in my yard is not a major factor , more like an excuse for these companies to back out and reduce liability. Harry

I completely agree.  You can have a house in the middle of nothing with not a single plant and they will find something to cancel you.  When there is a will they will make it happen.  I wonder if any palmtalkers in SD and the surrounding area are hearing or experiencing the same thing.  Obviously, we live in an area more prone to fire so there is an incentive to keep their profit margins high and bail while they still can.

[MJSanDiego]

2 hours ago, tinman10101 said:

 I wonder if any palmtalkers in SD and the surrounding area are hearing or experiencing the same thing.

Santa Ana winds are less prevalent down here, but do exist. Typically very short lived with sporadic sustained winds and variable gusts. I have not seen gusts in my coastal area over 45MPH in the last 15 years. But the deserts and foothills can get high winds. When it comes to insurance companies, they can just lump us all as one state and try to bail, but I have not seen much bailing here. They have increased rates though. It's such a massive state with many microclimates. The state should be split into at least 2 states, but I think 4 would be most appropriate

[Tracy]

On 8/21/2024 at 8:11 AM, tinman10101 said:

I completely agree.  You can have a house in the middle of nothing with not a single plant and they will find something to cancel you.  When there is a will they will make it happen.  I wonder if any palmtalkers in SD and the surrounding area are hearing or experiencing the same thing.  Obviously, we live in an area more prone to fire so there is an incentive to keep their profit margins high and bail while they still can.

Tin I haven't seen the huge rate increases yet but both my properties are very coastal.  I would not be surprised if this is happening in some of the Counties more inland valleys .Yes Santa Ana's are a bit weaker here due topography differences but we too have seen significant fires over the decades. Ifosses continue to climb,  we can expect to follow suit. 

[Harry’s Palms]

I had told a friend about it , actually complaining about California . He made a point to let me know that it is happening in other states as well . So , yes it is spreading and it makes sense that some areas are more prone to it but all of us are vulnerable to increases once the door is opened. Harry

[Zeeth]

30 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

I had told a friend about it , actually complaining about California . He made a point to let me know that it is happening in other states as well . So , yes it is spreading and it makes sense that some areas are more prone to it but all of us are vulnerable to increases once the door is opened. Harry

Florida has become really bad for homeowner's insurance. My rates have skyrocketed in the past few years despite my house being concrete block in an area that hasn't flooded in 50+ years. My wife's parents were recently told their house was "uninsurable" because it's too old. It was built in the 70's and is also concrete block with a new roof and new front door and windows. 

[Harry’s Palms]

What we need is someone to prove palms keep homes safe and more desirable!😂 Harry

[bruce Steele]

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2024-07-30/fair-plan-reform-homeowners-insurance-ricardo-lara-consumer-watchdog
Yes lots of property in high risk areas are being forced into the “Fair” plan . When the inevitable fire comes that exhausts the Fair reserves other insurers will temporarily cover the loses but those policies not in high risk zones will see very large price increases to cover the insurance companies expenses for backstopping the Fair Plan.  

[sonoranfans]

3 hours ago, Zeeth said:

Florida has become really bad for homeowner's insurance. My rates have skyrocketed in the past few years despite my house being concrete block in an area that hasn't flooded in 50+ years. My wife's parents were recently told their house was "uninsurable" because it's too old. It was built in the 70's and is also concrete block with a new roof and new front door and windows. 

I concur, and my house is block too.  The top reason for insurance costs has been lawsuits according to the state.  80% of all US lawsuits on real estate are in florida.  The governor passed a law that is supposed to reduce the frivolous lawsuits that in the past were overwhelmingly settled out of court.  The second highest cost is people making false claims for damage.   This appears to be a possibility as our neighborhood was canvassed 2x  by roofers in 2023, and I was told that I could get a new root free because a storm recently passed the area.  I had no damage to shingles at all.  With a 15 year old roof its probably just a few years away but its fraud and I wont do that.  Supposedly rates should drop after the legislation that now requires an independent audit of the damage assessment by insurance company and the restrictions on frivolous lawsuits are supposed to cut the legal games.  If it was up to me I would drop insurance agains wind and flood, just keep fire and liability.  I was told my house was no longer not in the flood plain, BS..  We got 14.6" rain in BEtty and the water didnt come within 6' of the street level.  Yes there was damage in manatee but no my area, nothing.  14.6 inches in a couple days was eclipsed our previo0us high of 11 inches years ago and that did no damage as well.

[sonoranfans]

As far as palms, they do help to buffer the wind and are much tougher to knock down in big wind than the native live oaks here.  I had one dypsis lutecens trunk 2" dioameter and one dypsis pembana trunk snapped but it was a t4ruynk from a second grow point that occurred after a cold event spear pull in 2010..  We had 4 large oaks knocked down in our neighborhood and another dozen were tilted visibly.  Many chinese elm were tilted even thought hey were not exposed to the big wind and of these 3-4 will come down in time as the roots were pulled up out of the ground to windward by as much as a foot.  

[Merlyn]

Yep, Floriduh insurance rates doubled for me last year.  Even reducing coverage limits and dramatically increasing deductibles didn't make it come even close to the already-high rates from a few years ago.

As far as palms go, I recently cut down some Queens on the West side of my house that I planted way too close.  My new rule is...nothing with fronds that can touch the house in hurricane force winds.  Period.  Even in regular daily storms the queen fronds were brushing gravel off the old shingles on that side of the house.  When I got a new roof last summer I made sure to cut all fronds that even had a chance of touching.  Saving a couple of bucks per month in A/C bills is not worth it compared to the cost of a new roof.  So down they went!  I've also "edited" a few more that were too close...or were going to grow big enough to be too close.

Live oaks are generally pretty tough in this area, with peak winds around 100mph in the last 20+ years of storms here.  They'd lose a few branches here and there, but I've not seen one toppled in this area.  Water oaks, on the other hand, fall regularly with every hurricane and even with some generic daily thunderstorms.  What finally convinced me to cut down *all* of my water oaks was standing in the dining room and watching a neighbor's 80' tall water oak slowly topple during a hurricane.  It wavered and was headed directly towards their house when a random gust of wind hit it and dumped it right next to their "Breaking Bad" RV.  Zero damage, but it could have easily destroyed their entire house and killed their entire family...  Despite this, they still have 4 giant water oaks within falling range of their house...durrrrrrr...

[Harry’s Palms]

A lot of my Queen palms are way taller than my house but I still give them a crew cut prior to the windy season . I have a concrete tile roof and right now I have two Queens that have fronds close to the roof because of the full crown . Once they are trimmed , no problem. I have a very large Kentia in my courtyard is fight up agains a pillar. The rest , save for my Chamaedroea and understory palms and a mid sized Pritchardia are at least 6-7’ away from my house. Harry

[tinman10101]

So I brutally cut down my canopy tree (Accacia Dealbata) that I grew from a sapling 12 years ago and of course, my palms are burning in full sun now.  I will now build a ten foot tall pergola where it covered my cement patio in the back in hopes of forming some kind of shelter on that particular side. 

In any case .... I thought I would disclose that amazingly and to my surprise, after submitting photos, my insurance company has rescinded their cancellation of my policy.  I am overwhelmingly happy but it is bittersweet because I now have to be super mindful of any of my palm leaves overhanging my roof.    @Harry’s Palms come by whenever you get a chance before I have to start chopping my prized larger palms.  Funny NOT Funny!

Tin

[Harry’s Palms]

Tin , thank you so much. I am getting ready for the palm butchers to come and trim the Queens , so a lot of my canopy will be removed as well. I normally do it anyway just because of the brutal Santa Ana winds that are coming soon . That is probably what bothers me most , other than paying more than double for my insurance. I keep my collection in order and grounds are kept free of debris . Our palms are well watered . Access around the house is clear of obstruction . Yes , I have a lot of palms but I don’t believe them to be a fire risk any more than other landscaping. Fire can happen to any of us and , of course , we want to reduce risk . Harry

[Hillizard]

Banner posted on Venice Beach this month...👨‍🚒👩‍🚒

[Harry’s Palms]

Perfect pic! Harry

[peachy]

I noticed that in the greater Los Angeles area Eucalyptus trees are very commonly planted. Given the right conditions the eucalyptus oils explode like a little bomb.  They have evolved to survive fires but shouldn't really be planted in fire prone districts.  Insurance companies ...I use those words as profanity. My new home doesn't flood but is an island in a flood prone zone. Many people in the low spots who can't get insurance have had the foundations on their houses replaced and instead of sitting 1 metre off the ground, they now perch at a lofty 6 to 7 metres in the air.  I survived the infamous 'Ash Wednesday" fires many years ago and fully empathise with the So Cal people going through this horrible time. As for looters ...shoot the bastards on sight !

 

[sonoranfans]

11 hours ago, peachy said:

I noticed that in the greater Los Angeles area Eucalyptus trees are very commonly planted. Given the right conditions the eucalyptus oils explode like a little bomb.  They have evolved to survive fires but shouldn't really be planted in fire prone districts.  Insurance companies ...I use those words as profanity. My new home doesn't flood but is an island in a flood prone zone. Many people in the low spots who can't get insurance have had the foundations on their houses replaced and instead of sitting 1 metre off the ground, they now perch at a lofty 6 to 7 metres in the air.  I survived the infamous 'Ash Wednesday" fires many years ago and fully empathise with the So Cal people going through this horrible time. As for looters ...shoot the bastards on sight !

 

Eucalyptus were, by far, the most knocked down tree in hurricane Milton.  Big branches up to 15" in diameter came down crushing what was beneath.  Not much of a fire risk here, its those pesky hurricanes that flood low areas, knock trees down, and rip up roofs.  My place stands between 2 others who had big damage to their roofs, total replacement needed.  They were relatively bare yards, no trees to  buffet the wind.  My place and its 50+ mature p[alms had minimal damage.  Neighbor on one side had the insurance company tell him they would cover 30% of the cost of a new roof.  Seems like my best insurance is my palms.

[Harry’s Palms]

There are some huge Eucalyptus trees around a home on the other side of the hill, about 3 blocks away. I wonder when they will fall down as they have not been maintained . Our utility companies hate them. I drive by every day and , during these wind events , wonder why someone would not at least trim them down. I have our tall palms trimmed every year prior to the Santa Ana wind season. Harry

[Las Palmas Norte]

14 hours ago, peachy said:

... They have evolved to survive fires but shouldn't really be planted in fire prone districts. ...

Eucalyptus have naturalized throughout California. Clearing or intentional planting (probably what you alluded to) in residential property is probably high risk.

[Silas_Sancona]

21 hours ago, peachy said:

I noticed that in the greater Los Angeles area Eucalyptus trees are very commonly planted. Given the right conditions the eucalyptus oils explode like a little bomb.  They have evolved to survive fires but shouldn't really be planted in fire prone districts. 

 

Eucalyptus, specifically Blue Gum are very common all over CA, coastal areas esp... 

If you look at pictures from around Berkley or Oakland  ..or the Santa Cruz area, Blue Gum will be what stands out among the view of various trees planted in each area, particularly some hillside locations.

We had ( ..is still there ) a sizable stand of mature B.G's that i'd walk through every so often in my old neighborhood back in San Jose..  Many spots just south of Capatola ( Located near Santa Cruz ) where houses sit tucked between / below towering ..80-100+ ft tall Blue Gum as well.

Regarding their flammability,  look up " Oakland Hills Fire of 1991 " for a prime example of what you mentiond..

Aside from them,  many CA native plants are fire dependant / produce highly volatile compounds that can burn with ease when ignited.  Chamise, a bush that has a Rosemary look to it, esp.   .. ..Those compounds are what gives " Chaparral "  regions in the state their distinctive scent during certain times of the year.

6 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Eucalyptus have naturalized throughout California. Clearing or intentional planting (probably what you alluded to) in residential property is probably high risk.

99% were planted intentionally -for pencils, windbreaks, wood, etc  by folks from AUS who'd come to CA during the gold rush, who didn't like the look of California's native landscapes / how the native plants look..     ....The " it isn't pretty enough for me  " crowd..

Same mindset that has ruined many areas of Hawaii, among countless other areas...



Thankfully, outside of the collection Boyce Thompson maintains, only see a few Euc.  sps planted here and mainly in older neighborhoods.


Speaking of Boyce, when the Telegraph Fire roared through that part of AZ a few years ago,  Boyce's Euc. collection barely escaped being razed..  Knowing how large it is,  seeing the aftermath of it wiped out would have been a devastating loss for the garden.

Since the majority of it is located where the fire was headed, had their grove caught on fire, very good chance Superior AZ would have faced being completely wiped off the map..

 

[peachy]

12 hours ago, Harry’s Palms said:

There are some huge Eucalyptus trees around a home on the other side of the hill, about 3 blocks away. I wonder when they will fall down as they have not been maintained . Our utility companies hate them. I drive by every day and , during these wind events , wonder why someone would not at least trim them down. I have our tall palms trimmed every year prior to the Santa Ana wind season. Harry

Big old branches fall off them very easily in strong wind and sometimes no wind at all. Many houses, sheds and cars get damaged regularly here but unfortunately we need them as food and habitat for the native birds and animals. The eucalypts native to my area are mainly skinny little ratty things that can't do much harm.

Peachy

 

[Silas_Sancona]

4 minutes ago, peachy said:

Big old branches fall off them very easily in strong wind and sometimes no wind at all. Many houses, sheds and cars get damaged regularly here but unfortunately we need them as food and habitat for the native birds and animals. The eucalypts native to my area are mainly skinny little ratty things that can't do much harm.

Peachy

 

Doesn't happen too often but, is a constant concern as well in California,  particularly w/ the weaker wooded / " Can shed branches randomly " giants like E. globulus.. 

At the opposite end, Ghost Gum  < Supposedly the true sp. from the top end >  is used in landscaping here because it's wood is strong enough to withstand our summer storm driven wind events ( Specimens that are allowed to grow correctly / aren't butchered )..  Really nice looking tree too.

Have seen massive specimens of both Red and Lemon Gums come down  -by the roots- though.  Scary thought thinking about living next to something that large that could flatten a house in one swipe.. 😬

[PalmatierMeg]

@Harry’s Palms and @tinman10101 and anyone else out in SoCal, my heart goes out to you because of those awful fires and the idiot insurance companies that are victimizing you.

I've faced palm obliteration from all the major hurricanes we've suffered since 2017. But FL earns a lot of money shilling for its tropical plantings, including palms so it won't risk the wrath of the Snow Birds by consigning its State landscaping to a gigantic mulch mountain to improve its elevation. No more than Cali would leap for a 50' tall concrete storm barrier around all its beaches. There's stupid and then there's really stu.......... Never mind.

So far in my 31 years in Cape Coral Code Enforcement has not ordered me to cut down my palms to "save" the environment around our 0.61 acre paradise. Code has ordered us to move our 4"/1g potted palm seedlings out of sight of the road because a North American Snow Bird complained we were running a commercial nursery in a residential area (which is illegal here but we weren't selling plants or anything else).

Here in FL we lose a lot of trunking palms to lightning, which is a bit of an armageddon experience when your neighbor's royal explodes and splits to the ground. Any palm exceeding 20-25' tall is a candidate for the "nuked" list. But I've not heard of gov't authorities knocking on doors or sending form letters demanding residents remove all tall palms, i.e., royals, Washies and the like.

People who don't know palms should learn that many, if not most, species grow in areas prone to high winds, storms and wild fires. What happens, at least often in FL. is that the flames of a wild fire burn off skirts, dead fronds and assorted fibers and ligules in minutes then pass by looking for something stick built to latch on to. The palms left behind might be scorched and blackened yet still alive to grow further. I see it all the time here in native Sabals, Serenoa and Acoelorraphe - amidst the black new leaves of bright green. My bet is that more palms in Pacific Palisades survive than people think. Going after the palms is pointless and wasteful. It's the loss of all those homes and businesses that really matters. I will say no more about that except I'm still on Santa Claus' Naughty, Not Nice Special Delivery List so no way do I want to put someone's knickers into a twist (no snark intended).

All my never-met mostly anonymous kinfolk reside in NoCal and S. Oregon (I'm an East Coast brat myself, which takes a lot of fortitude and gumption and is the reason almost none of my kin ever came to visit us). I try not to think the perils they face in the future. I'm no fan of tsunamis.

I wish everyone in SoCal the best in their recovery and return to their homes.

[tinman10101]

@PalmatierMeg  thank you so much for reaching out.  our fort is holding tight although we are located in a very high risk area.  the last week has been like walking on eggshells.  the minute one fire is put out, another would pop up.  literally a whack a mole scenario ... it just begs me to think that however the ongoing investigations are to so many of these fires, you can only speculate as to which ones are arson.  

we are in another low of humanity where despite our extreme weather change, we have to further protect ourselves from the lowest of the lows that would further inhibit our community's safety by lighting purposeful fires to wreak havoc at our extremely limited firefighting resources.  i hurt for all who have lost their houses.  i cant even begin to contemplate recovery for them as the real estate market prices here are astronomical and now with the huge influx of homeless families, i am not sure how one can move forward. 

below is where i live in proximity to the fires.  i am located in an area where the mountains channel the Santa Ana winds through a corridor right where the Hurst Fire is located.  we experienced 80+ mph winds here last week that were so loud at night that i couldnt sleep ...  winds that fanned the Hurst Fire from 50 acres to 500+ acres in a couple of hours.  ive been through many hurricanes since i am from miami and it transported me to my childhood except these were dry winds that i thought would bring my house down.  gladly, i must say, i was forced to chop a tree down because of insurance only to realize now that if would have probably felled last week and onto our house causing significant damage.  regardless, people do not realize that LA and its surrounding area is a desert.  we are not supposed to be living here growing lush gardens with tropical palms and plants (Pacific Palisades).  we have over a hundred years, transformed this desert landscape to something that "we" wanted mother nature to conform to.  

i have said in previous posts that mother nature is just taking it back and then some ... for all the additional destruction "we" have done to the environment.  i believe there is an equilibrium that earth must reset and we am just living in a period where we are starting to feel its change.  with that being said, thank you for your concern Meg!  i know of friends of friends that have lost homes.  i used to live in Altadena so i am so saddened seeing all the neighborhoods leveled by the Eaton Fire ... just as when i see hurricanes ravage the Kendall areas of Miami where i grew up and my mother still reside.  for any socal palmtalkers in the directly affected areas of the fires, i only pray for your safety and your family and hope you were spared of any astronomical loss.  

i have started to imagine my yard minus the palms and if that is necessary to minimize the risk of losing insurance for our home, then this is a thought i am already starting to entertain.  the insurance protocol around my area as they make the rounds is that they want any vegetation at least 5 feet away from the roofline.  that would basically be 90% of all my trunking palms unfortunately.  it would be heartache to level all the mature palms but i have prepared myself to envision a yard of only cycads, agave, and aloes.   they can take away all my palms but i will refuse to chop down my jubaea chilensis which luckily is planted exactly 5 feet away from my roofline from its mature palm tip leaves.  😉

be safe and thank you to everyone that has kept all of us in your thoughts.  

tin

ps @Harry’s Palms hope you are holding tight buddy!

[PalmatierMeg]

My brother-in-law lived in Simi Valley and Thousand Oaks but moved to Reno, NV about 10 years ago. Good thing, too, because he's 80 y.o. and has COPD.

I'm well aware Cali is mostly desert. I'm also aware idiots (Snark Alert: I'm not joking) move to Cali, then try to remake that desert into tropical oases. My parents, born 1920 at the end of the frontier era, were lucky to grow up in NoCal before all the idiots yet to be born discovered California Dreamin'. I once thought my parents would move back their self-proclaimed paradise and kinfolk when my dad retired but they dreamed of buying a home in the Blue Ridge Mountains of VA - never did. My mother told me all the idiots had ruined the town of Los Gatos where she came of age so Cali was a lost cause for a rare native Californian. Well, who wants to move to a childhood home that now sits next to a landfill? In truth, I never learned who those idiots were but she knew and took umbrage at them.

I have to live around morons who move to the Banana Republic Florida then try to landscape their concrete block homes to mimic their homes in Michigan, NJ, and Illinois without a clue that northern plants cannot grow in much of FL - because the winters are Not Cold Enough for them to survive. Those are the people who hate palms, esp. outside FL If you're going to move somewhere really different, polish your research skills and learn as much as you can about your potential new home. In 1992 I spent hours at the public library (no internet then) researching places to live in FL I was torn between Pensacola and Ft. Myers/Cape Coral. The choice made itself when I discovered Pensacola had 2-3 month regular freezes in winter. My husband hates cold.

[flplantguy]

Here people recently (since the fires started) have been asking their HOAs to clear the conservation areas near their homes. These are natural wetlands and not fire prone, but people rarely educate themselves on those things since its nature and dirty (saltiness intended).  We protect them, but allow proper management so they can't do anything harmful; we have to educate until the next homeowner from somewhere benign shows up with the same idea though. The people here all seem to want tropical mistakes and not good plants, since we get colder and look like the panhandle.  I agree about a lot of transplants needing educating, but local governments can be just as bad, hence the silly removals sometimes. We have an oak tree thats near a historic bandstand that the higher interests wantes removed "just in case". I said then you can tell the callers why, its fine, and since i wouldnt take the hit its still there.  Stay strong and fight back with professionals that can tell the truth about the plant, and maybe some will be saved and insurance kept.  It will only get worse until something snaps unfortunately.

[Harry’s Palms]

@tinman10101 we have been dodging the bullet so far , with our side of the county . I hope you stay safe and the winds finally calm down . My home , on the view side , gets blasted with the wind as it rips through the valley between hospital hill and South Mountain like a vent to the ocean. I am out on a bit of a point which makes for incredible views but puts us right in the path of the wind. The recent fires are a solemn reminder that the winds are the biggest threat to our safety. It dries the air until there is low or no humidity and carries embers from the chaparral to neighborhoods , destroying homes indiscriminately. 
 

@PalmatierMeg You make some interesting points. Our family moved here in 1959 , I was 5. I have seen over development and the negative effects on our quality of life . It seems like a lot of folks made tons of money transforming our “desert” into mass housing tracts , leaving no open space and even building along dry river beds. 
 

I don’t know what the future holds for us , with insurance , or lack there of. I just don’t think cutting down our palm trees is going to stop these wild fires from occurring. Without starting a conversation about climate change , I will say , in my short time on this planet , our local weather pattern is changing. Our winters are shorter and dry seasons are more intense. We have years that have %200 of average rainfall with most of the rain coming in a shorter period of time . This is followed by very dry conditions for 9 months or so. Our wettest months are right now and we have had nothing but very dry wind . Sitting under a high pressure bubble , Harry