Agave help

[Colin1110082]

Hello, I want to buy an agave that is hardy to at least 5B and I want it to be somewhat moisture tolerant because we get a lot of rain and especially slush in the winter. I’ll still protect it by putting a box over it during precipitation in the winter but I would at least like a more moisture tolerant species than the average agave. For the first years of its life it will be potted in my house as a decoration. I’ve heard agave parryi neomexicana is a good choice. Any opinions? Thanks 

[Meangreen94z]

No such thing for the east coast. In dryer climate like Denver, etc. it would be possible. 

[hinovak]

That’s going to be really tough with winter moisture, from what I’ve seen personally and read from knowledgeable sources is the drier you keep them in the winter, the more cold hardy they are, being that you are at one of the absolute lowest zones some agave can take. It will probably be tough. If you wanted to try, raised beds with excellent drainage and maybe the best thing would be to make a mini green house cold frame to put on top of them during the wet spells. Plant delights nursery is an excellent source to figure out which ones can take lowest temps. Ethical desert which is somewhere in Colorado, deals with very cold hardy stuff.  But as mean green said, wet winters are going to be what nails you

[hinovak]

During the growing season with hot weather, some agaves can take an obscene amount of water, but winter not so much

[Merlyn]

Many of the "true desert" types like Parryi rot and die with any winter moisture, at least that's been my experience here in FL.  And the ones that tolerate water in the winter also can't handle 5B temperatures in the -10 to -15F range.  In reality there's no agave that can take -10F and water.  For reference here's a reasonably accurate hardiness list:

https://www.agaveville.org/viewtopic.php?t=426

The only two that are close are Havardiana and Utahensis, both of which will rot with winter moisture.  I'd recommend picking an agave you like for indoors that won't grow into a 10' diameter monster, and just use them as potted plants.  They grow pretty well indoors for me as long as I remember to water them every 6 months or so... 

[Colin1110082]

On 8/26/2024 at 10:09 PM, Meangreen94z said:

No such thing for the east coast. In dryer climate like Denver, etc. it would be possible. 

Yep. I was  afraid I would hear that 😔 I’ll just buy a house plant one 

[Colin1110082]

On 8/28/2024 at 9:33 AM, Merlyn said:

Many of the "true desert" types like Parryi rot and die with any winter moisture, at least that's been my experience here in FL.  And the ones that tolerate water in the winter also can't handle 5B temperatures in the -10 to -15F range.  In reality there's no agave that can take -10F and water.  For reference here's a reasonably accurate hardiness list:

https://www.agaveville.org/viewtopic.php?t=426

The only two that are close are Havardiana and Utahensis, both of which will rot with winter moisture.  I'd recommend picking an agave you like for indoors that won't grow into a 10' diameter monster, and just use them as potted plants.  They grow pretty well indoors for me as long as I remember to water them every 6 months or so... 

Every six months?? Wow. Okay, what are the best type that do well in pots? Agave Billie said that some don’t like pots that well. I would like to keep It outside on my back deck which gets full sun all day, and I’ll bring it in if we get rain, damaging wind, or below freezing temperatures. What is the best variety for this? It will be brought in quite a lot and will be in for all of winter 

[Merlyn]

3 hours ago, Colin1110082 said:

Every six months?? Wow. Okay, what are the best type that do well in pots? Agave Billie said that some don’t like pots that well. I would like to keep It outside on my back deck which gets full sun all day, and I’ll bring it in if we get rain, damaging wind, or below freezing temperatures. What is the best variety for this? It will be brought in quite a lot and will be in for all of winter 

Watering for me depends on whether I remember or not.    I have a Lophantha Splendida in a Groot pot on my desk, it gets enough humidity to almost never need water.  At night the AC turns off in that area of the house, the humidity jumps, and then agave's stomata open at night...self watering!  I put it in the sink every once in a while and soak it with water to wash off the dust and refill the perlite soil.

I'd agree on the comments with rotting in pots, you do have to be careful about the soil mixture.  Initially I tried a fairly dense mix with ~50% organics.  Lophantha are fairly tropical and are fine in dense FL soil and daily thunderstorms, so I figured they'd be fine.  Nope, root rot and eventual death was the result.  My current success is about 90% perlite with a bit of organic mix.

I'm no expert on pot growing, so others may have better suggestions.  If it'll be inside a lot you'll want a good light source for the winter.  A very silvery or very highly variegated one isn't a great choice, as they'll be limited in light uptake due to less chlorophyll.  In general any agave that's a reasonable mature size should work okay.  I'd avoid monsters like Americana and Asperimma, unless you just want something to grow quick and replace in a couple of years.  I've had root rot problems with Parrassana, Victoria-Reginae, Utahensis, Parryi (except the JC Raulston type that works well), and a few others.  A tough clustering one is "Confederate Rose," it makes a neat small potted plant.  You could also go for a bigger but slow growing one like Ovatifolia.  They are known for being very hardy.  I'd check out "Danger Garden" blog with their list of survivors: http://www.thedangergarden.com/p/my-plants-list.html

If you like weird ones I'd recommend Bracteosa.  They survived the PalmAgeddon in Austin's Zilker Botanical Garden, where temps were below zero for a week or so.  It's not for everyone, though...  A bigger version is Vilmoriana or the "Octopus Agave."  It's on the list of pretty hardy ones, despite the funky tropical-ish appearance.

[Colin1110082]

8 hours ago, Merlyn said:

Watering for me depends on whether I remember or not.    I have a Lophantha Splendida in a Groot pot on my desk, it gets enough humidity to almost never need water.  At night the AC turns off in that area of the house, the humidity jumps, and then agave's stomata open at night...self watering!  I put it in the sink every once in a while and soak it with water to wash off the dust and refill the perlite soil.

I'd agree on the comments with rotting in pots, you do have to be careful about the soil mixture.  Initially I tried a fairly dense mix with ~50% organics.  Lophantha are fairly tropical and are fine in dense FL soil and daily thunderstorms, so I figured they'd be fine.  Nope, root rot and eventual death was the result.  My current success is about 90% perlite with a bit of organic mix.

I'm no expert on pot growing, so others may have better suggestions.  If it'll be inside a lot you'll want a good light source for the winter.  A very silvery or very highly variegated one isn't a great choice, as they'll be limited in light uptake due to less chlorophyll.  In general any agave that's a reasonable mature size should work okay.  I'd avoid monsters like Americana and Asperimma, unless you just want something to grow quick and replace in a couple of years.  I've had root rot problems with Parrassana, Victoria-Reginae, Utahensis, Parryi (except the JC Raulston type that works well), and a few others.  A tough clustering one is "Confederate Rose," it makes a neat small potted plant.  You could also go for a bigger but slow growing one like Ovatifolia.  They are known for being very hardy.  I'd check out "Danger Garden" blog with their list of survivors: http://www.thedangergarden.com/p/my-plants-list.html

If you like weird ones I'd recommend Bracteosa.  They survived the PalmAgeddon in Austin's Zilker Botanical Garden, where temps were below zero for a week or so.  It's not for everyone, though...  A bigger version is Vilmoriana or the "Octopus Agave."  It's on the list of pretty hardy ones, despite the funky tropical-ish appearance.

Thank you for the response. I would put this thing in a spot that gets lots of light, but the problem is that it is directly 5 feet in front of my AC unit… I have been looking at parryi truncata and especially agave blue glow from happy valley plants in a 1 gallon size and for potting I would use the potting mixture that they make and you can buy from their store and add some additional perlite for fast drainage. 

[Merlyn]

@Colin1110082 if you like Parryi Truncata I would check out Parryi "JC Raulston" or the variegated "Huachucensis Excelsior."  Those are the only two that survived several winters in the ground here.  Neomexicana, Huachucensis, regular Truncata, and Parryi v. Parryi all rotted after 1 or 2 winters in the ground. 

[Colin1110082]

36 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

@Colin1110082 if you like Parryi Truncata I would check out Parryi "JC Raulston" or the variegated "Huachucensis Excelsior."  Those are the only two that survived several winters in the ground here.  Neomexicana, Huachucensis, regular Truncata, and Parryi v. Parryi all rotted after 1 or 2 winters in the ground. 

At this point I don’t really care about putting it in the ground and here is why. I went over to the agaveville forum and asked this very same question and people said it relatively can’t be done without lots and lots of work in zone 6A. Instead I am just going to get one to keep in a pot I can enjoy in my house and the blue glow and truncata were said to be good house plants and those ones caught my eye. I think they are probably right, it is quite unrealistic to have an agave in the ground here

[Colin1110082]

54 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

@Colin1110082 if you like Parryi Truncata I would check out Parryi "JC Raulston" or the variegated "Huachucensis Excelsior."  Those are the only two that survived several winters in the ground here.  Neomexicana, Huachucensis, regular Truncata, and Parryi v. Parryi all rotted after 1 or 2 winters in the ground. 

Also will they not like my AC unit?

[PalmsInBaltimore]

23 hours ago, Merlyn said:

A tough clustering one is "Confederate Rose," it makes a neat small potted plant.

These also pup freely as an extra bonus. Bought one at the end of May that had extensive root rot from being kept in peaty, wet soil at Ace Hardware. Split the parent from the pups and pruned off significant chunks of rotting roots, but they all shrugged it off over the summer. The pups are grouped together in one pot, and then the parent is in a 1 gallon. The parent has sent out two new pups with about one leaf each. One of the larger pups even sent out its own grandpup! They really want to fill in available potting space with the babies, which is a nice feature! Maybe in two years those will be ready for their own container. They don't mind root circling and being rootbound.

Slow growers but they are tough. The comment above about them being able to handle lots of water during the summer growing season seems to be correct. I assume this goes for many other agave. If it's hot they are happy to sponge up water. If it's cool, not so happy. Cold -- definitely no water! I think if you're going to keep it inside all year it should be fine five feet from the AC as long as you water very sparingly and just let it go dormant in the winter. Would benefit from being outside in the summer if you want to see faster growth.

Mine have been outside in full sun and taking whatever rain we get as watering. We're moving into the tough time of the year here though with September and October. I am probably going to leave them outside in September but start covering them like my other outdoor succulents (blue chalksticks, desert rose, echeveria, haworthia cumbiformis) when there's rain in the forecast because we're due to have some chilly nights and autumn here is typically damp and cool. Preparing myself for a disappointing September, which in the past few years has been the last month of summer but this year looks like it might be solidly autumnal. We'll see. Either way in the winter they'll go in a sunny window and be neglected until next spring. 

Potting mix I use is a mix of about 50% expanded shale, and the rest coco coir, rice hull, sand, softwood biochar and worm casings (Organic Mechanics cactus and succulent blend).

[Merlyn]

@Colin1110082 I don't think the AC would be an issue.  Most are "updraft" these days so they would just have a slow but consistent breeze going past it.  If it's a downdraft AC then you'd have a consistent warm breeze going towards it, also probably not an issue.

I have several blue glow too, and most have worked out well in the ground here.  The only one that didn't was in an area with fairly rich soil and in part shade, so it rotted out.  But I think that was mostly the soil, as I have another in significant shade but a high-and-dry sandy area...and it's doing great for ~4 years.

@PalmsInBaltimore I've had a lot of problems with the small ones rotting and dying here.  The various cultivars like Desert Diamond, Tradewinds and other Isthmensis and Potatorum don't do that well in the ground here.  They tend to get burn in my upper 20s frosts and then just slowly wither away and die.  The two that have been really reliable are Confederate Rose and a Filifera x Isthmensis hybrid.  I think the mound-building clusters might help with rot resistance, since the upper plants are sort of hanging out in space.  Maybe the heart stays up in the air and drier?  Hard to say...

[Colin1110082]

Okay, so I think it’s down to these 3. Confederate rose, truncata, or blue glow. I think I ruled our queen victoria. The deciding factors is tolerance to the ac blowing on it, (horizontal breeze) bright indirect light when inside for the summer but direct sun in the winter (our house is really old so we put an ac in our south facing window, figures) and tolerance for moving in and out. At this point it would only be outside until maybe mid to late october unless rain, wind, or freezes. Most nights have been low 60s. I like how these ones all look and are said to be reliable plants. I think i’m leaning towards confederate rose, but I can’t really find any online besides an etsy store. Will that do fine being moved in and out or not 

[Colin1110082]

5 hours ago, PalmsInBaltimore said:

These also pup freely as an extra bonus. Bought one at the end of May that had extensive root rot from being kept in peaty, wet soil at Ace Hardware. Split the parent from the pups and pruned off significant chunks of rotting roots, but they all shrugged it off over the summer. The pups are grouped together in one pot, and then the parent is in a 1 gallon. The parent has sent out two new pups with about one leaf each. One of the larger pups even sent out its own grandpup! They really want to fill in available potting space with the babies, which is a nice feature! Maybe in two years those will be ready for their own container. They don't mind root circling and being rootbound.

Slow growers but they are tough. The comment above about them being able to handle lots of water during the summer growing season seems to be correct. I assume this goes for many other agave. If it's hot they are happy to sponge up water. If it's cool, not so happy. Cold -- definitely no water! I think if you're going to keep it inside all year it should be fine five feet from the AC as long as you water very sparingly and just let it go dormant in the winter. Would benefit from being outside in the summer if you want to see faster growth.

Mine have been outside in full sun and taking whatever rain we get as watering. We're moving into the tough time of the year here though with September and October. I am probably going to leave them outside in September but start covering them like my other outdoor succulents (blue chalksticks, desert rose, echeveria, haworthia cumbiformis) when there's rain in the forecast because we're due to have some chilly nights and autumn here is typically damp and cool. Preparing myself for a disappointing September, which in the past few years has been the last month of summer but this year looks like it might be solidly autumnal. We'll see. Either way in the winter they'll go in a sunny window and be neglected until next spring. 

Potting mix I use is a mix of about 50% expanded shale, and the rest coco coir, rice hull, sand, softwood biochar and worm casings (Organic Mechanics cactus and succulent blend).

For soil could I do miracle grow succulent and mix in perlite and pea gravel?

[Colin1110082]

4 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@Colin1110082 I don't think the AC would be an issue.  Most are "updraft" these days so they would just have a slow but consistent breeze going past it.  If it's a downdraft AC then you'd have a consistent warm breeze going towards it, also probably not an issue.

I have several blue glow too, and most have worked out well in the ground here.  The only one that didn't was in an area with fairly rich soil and in part shade, so it rotted out.  But I think that was mostly the soil, as I have another in significant shade but a high-and-dry sandy area...and it's doing great for ~4 years.

@PalmsInBaltimore I've had a lot of problems with the small ones rotting and dying here.  The various cultivars like Desert Diamond, Tradewinds and other Isthmensis and Potatorum don't do that well in the ground here.  They tend to get burn in my upper 20s frosts and then just slowly wither away and die.  The two that have been really reliable are Confederate Rose and a Filifera x Isthmensis hybrid.  I think the mound-building clusters might help with rot resistance, since the upper plants are sort of hanging out in space.  Maybe the heart stays up in the air and drier?  Hard to say...

I would put my blue glow in pots. I think I realized there is practically no way an agave without lots and lots of work will grow long term here.

[PalmsInBaltimore]

9 minutes ago, Colin1110082 said:

For soil could I do miracle grow succulent and mix in perlite and pea gravel?

I wouldn't use more than 25% miracle grow for the mix. I know the MG you're talking about (I bought it one time years ago and I didn't like it at all). It's not rocky or chunky and actually retains a lot of water for a long time and gets compacted if it's allowed to dry out so it needs to be mixed in with very friable and loose materials. I think more pea gravel than perlite. Maybe 50% pea gravel, 25% perlite, 25% miracle grow. 

[Merlyn]

I'd agree...if in doubt use less potting mix.  Perlite is a great choice for very lightweight and reasonable water retention.  Pea gravel and Turface MVP are super heavy in comparison.  If you have a good source for pumice that's a better choice than perlite.

For the organic part I'd use something like a loose shredded bark mix.  Kellogg organic raised bed mix is a pretty "chunky" mix, or maybe use a small bag of orchid bark mixed in with mostly perlite and pea gravel.  For most of my pots I use the "house brand" HD/Lowe's "topsoil" but I have to be careful to find the lightweight bags with mostly shredded tree bits instead of the heavy bags with dense sandy muck.

[Silas_Sancona]

Wouldn't use Miracle grow " soil "  AT  ALL    A good grower invests in QUALITY  ingredients for the soil mixes for their plants from day 1. 

" Miracle Garbage " has quick release, Salts-derived synthetic fertilizer in it  ..which these plants do not need..

For Agave in pots, stick with a mix that is:  20% -combined- Cocopeat and a little compost. 

Remaining 80% of such a soil mix?  PUMICE ..NOT Perlite..  ....Some Turface MVP ..and some grit..

  That is it..

 

[Colin1110082]

42 minutes ago, PalmsInBaltimore said:

I wouldn't use more than 25% miracle grow for the mix. I know the MG you're talking about (I bought it one time years ago and I didn't like it at all). It's not rocky or chunky and actually retains a lot of water for a long time and gets compacted if it's allowed to dry out so it needs to be mixed in with very friable and loose materials. I think more pea gravel than perlite. Maybe 50% pea gravel, 25% perlite, 25% miracle grow. 

Really? That’s practically straight rock. Will that work? I can also buy some home made succulent mix as well. I have extra palm citrus cactus soil also.

[Colin1110082]

14 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Wouldn't use Miracle grow " soil "  AT  ALL    A good grower invests in QUALITY  ingredients for the soil mixes for their plants from day 1. 

" Miracle Garbage " has quick release, Salts-derived synthetic fertilizer in it  ..which these plants do not need..

For Agave in pots, stick with a mix that is:  20% -combined- Cocopeat and a little compost. 

Remaining 80% of such a soil mix?  PUMICE ..NOT Perlite..  ....Some Turface MVP ..and some grit..

  That is it..

 

I spent a lot of money using straight out of the bag miracle grow palm mix for my windmill palms and I regret it 😔 

[Colin1110082]

Is there a link anyone can prove for good to use straight out of the bag succulent mix? I can also add in perlite and those rocks. Also as far as the agaves, which one? Truncata, confederate rose, or blue glow?

[PalmsInBaltimore]

https://organicmechanicsoil.com/product/organic-mechanics-cactus-succulent-blend/
 

You can use this straight out of the bag. 

[Silas_Sancona]

55 minutes ago, Colin1110082 said:

Really? That’s practically straight rock. Will that work? I can also buy some home made succulent mix as well. I have extra palm citrus cactus soil also.

Would recommend taking some time to look over photos on iNaturalist of the soil many Agave ...Those from this part of the U.S. and Mexico grow in esp.  Aside from a thin surface layer of organic " Duff " ( Duff = stuff like fallen leaves / any grasses / other herbaceous plants that grow around other plants ..that accumulates and slowly decomposes over the course of a year or more ) Soil the roots of most Agave -and other arid- adapted plants-  grow in is very rocky ..and comprised of fine, decomposed rock ..Stuff like grit / sand / pebbles ..which makes up the  mineral  " base "  of any soil anywhere in the world, except maybe situations like old Peat Bogs..

Numerous places here and in Mexico ( esp. ) where numerous Agave sps, some quite large,  can be seen growing out of tiny cracks on a solid rock cliff face 100s of feet above someones head as well.. Plants have no issues with their seemingly impossible growing position..

Here are a few habitat shots from a spot nearby i hike pretty often.. majority of the pictured Agave  i see up there, A. chrysantha, and numerous other things  grow right out of old Basalt Tabletop and Granite deposits.  Oaks and some other things might be a bit stunted size- wise,  but the Agave shrug off having very limited growing space.

Oaks on the rocks... Quercus emoryi in this case..
















A. chrysantha..






















Have some seedlings of a local Agave sp, and a few others i purchased i grow in a soil mix that is only comprised of collected / sifted wash grit, Turface MVP, and Pumice ..Absolutely no organics. 

Some of the happiest Agave i have.

[Merlyn]

@Silas_Sancona is right on pumice, it and Turface MVP have cation exchange capacity that helps a lot with growth.  I was only suggesting perlite because it weighs nothing and that might come in handy when moving pots back and forth.  I have two ~15g pots with Beaucarnea Recurvata (ponytail palm) inside, and my initial mix was way too heavy to move.  It had to be at least 200lb with the big thick ceramic pot full.  I repotted with about 50% perlite instead of 50% Turface and they are at least manageable now at ~100lb.  I'd use pumice if you can get it locally.  In FL it's nonexistant and costs a fortune to buy online.  If you have a smaller pot it might not matter.  There's probably no "out of the bag" mix that'll actually work for agaves, except ones like @PalmsInBaltimore posted.  It's easy enough to make yourself.  And yes, a 90% inorganic mix will work just fine, note the photo of that mix shows just a few shreds of pine and the rest is mostly rock.  Agaves are slow growers and don't need a lot of water or organic nutrient sources.  It's one reason they can grow in deserts where there's very little rain or decomposed organics in the soil.  You can ask on Agaveville too, and will likely get similar answers.

As far as agaves go, that's your personal preference.  I think all should work okay in pots indefinitely.  Experiment with one, see how you like it, and then grow your collection from there! 

Just for reference, I have managed to kill about 185 agaves but succeeded with ~285 agaves, aloes and cacti in the ground, and another ~50 in pots.  The majority died from root or crown rot, which is why I've been advising for super fast draining with very low organics.  Retained moisture and dense organics are the enemy of all but the most tropical agaves.

 

[hinovak]

If you are going to take it inside you could always go with a more tropical species. Some pretty ridiculous cool cultivars out there
 

[Silas_Sancona]

Aside from the two admired, and other suggestions mentioned here  and / or on AG,   Since whatever you decide on will be a potted, indoors in winter /  outdoors otherwise specimen, your list of choices is pretty extensive..

As the most reliable of info sources on AG have mentioned, Agave don't make the best " house plants " but,  it can be done  ..if in the right soil,  and placed where they will get as much full sun through a window while inside.. 

Watered too much? / Kept where they don't get enough light while inside?  Forget it..   

That said,

Wish the first two were mine, 2nd specimen esp. ha ha..









































 

[SeanK]

Honestly, I don't believe ANY Agaves are cold-hardy to z5b, not even in WY.

Yuccas - most likely the non-trunking ones.

Cacti - probably only some ugly pad type, not any of the chollas.

As everyone above has said, they rot in cold, wet weather. Soil to be pea gravel and coarse sand. They've evolved for sporadic, light rain so, they soak it up like a sponge. If it doesn't evaporate out fast - mush.

Oddly, I've seen some grown here in red clay. However, we stay above 0°F and if the soil is hard packed, percolation is non-existent.

[Silas_Sancona]

14 minutes ago, SeanK said:

Honestly, I don't believe ANY Agaves are cold-hardy to z5b, not even in WY.

Yuccas - most likely the non-trunking ones.

Cacti - probably only some ugly pad type, not any of the chollas.

As everyone above has said, they rot in cold, wet weather. Soil to be pea gravel and coarse sand. They've evolved for sporadic, light rain so, they soak it up like a sponge. If it doesn't evaporate out fast - mush.

Oddly, I've seen some grown here in red clay. However, we stay above 0°F and if the soil is hard packed, percolation is non-existent.

Spend some time looking over various Genus of Cacti on iNaturalist,  or look over the collection of plants cultivated and sold by Cold Hardy Cacti  Numerous cacti sps grow in sub zone 7B areas of the west or cultivated in such areas further east- if sited properly-

 Wayy more than just Opuntiods can tolerate quite a bit of cold.  ..That includes species within various Genus like Pediocactus, Escobaria, and  Echinocereus.. Not to mention some others in S. America.. " northern " Escobaria  sps, and what Pediocactus  i've managed to try despise heat.  A few Echinocereus sps as well.

Far from ugly " Cladode " - type Cacti.
 

[Colin1110082]

Yeah I think the barrel cactus and the cylindrical one can live in my climate. I’m pretty sure hedgehog can as well. It’s just the basic opuntia humifusa which is what I have doesn’t need protection from moisture while those other species need it. Opuntia is in the wild about 20 miles to the south of me is some of the northern most populations on the east coast. As far as agave, I think I’m going to buy blue glow! I found a listing on Etsy for 8.99 a decent sized agave blue glow. I just need to get succulent soil. It’s already in a pot I don’t think it’s shipped bare root 

[Colin1110082]

On 8/31/2024 at 9:20 PM, Merlyn said:

@Silas_Sancona is right on pumice, it and Turface MVP have cation exchange capacity that helps a lot with growth.  I was only suggesting perlite because it weighs nothing and that might come in handy when moving pots back and forth.  I have two ~15g pots with Beaucarnea Recurvata (ponytail palm) inside, and my initial mix was way too heavy to move.  It had to be at least 200lb with the big thick ceramic pot full.  I repotted with about 50% perlite instead of 50% Turface and they are at least manageable now at ~100lb.  I'd use pumice if you can get it locally.  In FL it's nonexistant and costs a fortune to buy online.  If you have a smaller pot it might not matter.  There's probably no "out of the bag" mix that'll actually work for agaves, except ones like @PalmsInBaltimore posted.  It's easy enough to make yourself.  And yes, a 90% inorganic mix will work just fine, note the photo of that mix shows just a few shreds of pine and the rest is mostly rock.  Agaves are slow growers and don't need a lot of water or organic nutrient sources.  It's one reason they can grow in deserts where there's very little rain or decomposed organics in the soil.  You can ask on Agaveville too, and will likely get similar answers.

As far as agaves go, that's your personal preference.  I think all should work okay in pots indefinitely.  Experiment with one, see how you like it, and then grow your collection from there! 

Just for reference, I have managed to kill about 185 agaves but succeeded with ~285 agaves, aloes and cacti in the ground, and another ~50 in pots.  The majority died from root or crown rot, which is why I've been advising for super fast draining with very low organics.  Retained moisture and dense organics are the enemy of all but the most tropical agaves.

 

What would you say about these mixes? I also have some palm soil from miracle grow I can mix in if needed but I doubt it 

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, Colin1110082 said:

What would you say about these mixes? I also have some palm soil from miracle grow I can mix in if needed but I doubt it 

1st option:  Sand in their suggested mix appears it would be too fine...  Fine grade sand = holds a ton of water.  Combined w/ the Coco peat, ..and / or any other organic soil ingredient..  which would also retains moisture = not good,  even with the " chunkier " stuff added to their mix..  Perlite looks too fine of a grade as well..

Even if you didn't water much, it would likely still stay too wet indoors..  Under those conditions,  Peat moss will decompose faster, thus opening up opportunity for root rot issues.  Staying moist would degrade the Pine Bark faster as well..



2nd option is a good start / soil mix base  ..Just add some Cocopeat, maybe some Pine Bark, some grit,  and some Turface MVP.. 



3rd would be an ok Soil Mix base if it didn't include Peat moss / Vermiculitie..



Every cactus, and like 90- something % of every succulent i've ever bought which had been grown in a soil mix heavy in either ..or both  Peat moss / Vermiculite  would croak. ..And not because of it staying too wet either..  Some of the same soil mixes had Pumice and Perlite in them ..just not even close to enough of either.   

Learned quickly to un pot all purchased plants, wash off the yuck soil the nursery grew the plants in, and repot into the good stuff.



Thing about purchased soil mixes is you have absolutely no control over how the soil mix is put together ..So that $12 - $20 / 20+ bucks spent for what you assume will be a good mix, could end up being heavy in Organics / anything else you don't want much of / any of  in that mix when you get it and open the bag..  Never trust what some flashy advertisement says. 

Haven't purchased a bagged soil mix myself in like 12 years.. 

Better to get some buckets,  purchase individual soil components,  and mix together yourself  ...So you know exactly what the ratio of ingredients is, ...based off what the plant's natural preferences are. 



 

[Colin1110082]

40 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

1st option:  Sand in their suggested mix appears it would be too fine...  Fine grade sand = holds a ton of water.  Combined w/ the Coco peat, ..and / or any other organic soil ingredient..  which would also retains moisture = not good,  even with the " chunkier " stuff added to their mix..  Perlite looks too fine of a grade as well..

Even if you didn't water much, it would likely still stay too wet indoors..  Under those conditions,  Peat moss will decompose faster, thus opening up opportunity for root rot issues.  Staying moist would degrade the Pine Bark faster as well..



2nd option is a good start / soil mix base  ..Just add some Cocopeat, maybe some Pine Bark, some grit,  and some Turface MVP.. 



3rd would be an ok Soil Mix base if it didn't include Peat moss / Vermiculitie..



Every cactus, and like 90- something % of every succulent i've ever bought which had been grown in a soil mix heavy in either ..or both  Peat moss / Vermiculite  would croak. ..And not because of it staying too wet either..  Some of the same soil mixes had Pumice and Perlite in them ..just not even close to enough of either.   

Learned quickly to un pot all purchased plants, wash off the yuck soil the nursery grew the plants in, and repot into the good stuff.



Thing about purchased soil mixes is you have absolutely no control over how the soil mix is put together ..So that $12 - $20 / 20+ bucks spent for what you assume will be a good mix, could end up being heavy in Organics / anything else you don't want much of / any of  in that mix when you get it and open the bag..  Never trust what some flashy advertisement says. 

Haven't purchased a bagged soil mix myself in like 12 years.. 

Better to get some buckets,  purchase individual soil components,  and mix together yourself  ...So you know exactly what the ratio of ingredients is, ...based off what the plant's natural preferences are. 



 

I think I found a succulent mix that is good. The picture looks like gravel and it contains lots of grit. This stuff is cheap too. I have no problem making my own, it’s just more expensive and takes time compared to just buying a bag of succulent mix, but the problem with that is that big box stores usually carry known brands such as dumb miracle grow instead of home made pro stuff. I used miracle grow palm soil right out of the bag for my trachycarpus. That stuff is NOT well draining like they advertise. I’ve been watering a lot less. The top half of the soil is bone dry but if you reach in the pot it usually is damp. I’ll have to repot soon with some other mix. The pots are well draining. Large pots with a bunch of holes in the bottom. Anyways the succulent stuff contains:

(4 Quart bag)

1/4" size Heat Treated Douglas Fir Bark
• 1/8" size Pumice
• 1/8" size Calcined Clay
• Pro-Mix HP (Peat Moss, Perlite, Dolomitic & calcitic limestone)

[Silas_Sancona]

3 hours ago, Colin1110082 said:

I think I found a succulent mix that is good. The picture looks like gravel and it contains lots of grit. This stuff is cheap too. I have no problem making my own, it’s just more expensive and takes time compared to just buying a bag of succulent mix, but the problem with that is that big box stores usually carry known brands such as dumb miracle grow instead of home made pro stuff. I used miracle grow palm soil right out of the bag for my trachycarpus. That stuff is NOT well draining like they advertise. I’ve been watering a lot less. The top half of the soil is bone dry but if you reach in the pot it usually is damp. I’ll have to repot soon with some other mix. The pots are well draining. Large pots with a bunch of holes in the bottom. Anyways the succulent stuff contains:

(4 Quart bag)

1/4" size Heat Treated Douglas Fir Bark
• 1/8" size Pumice
• 1/8" size Calcined Clay
• Pro-Mix HP (Peat Moss, Perlite, Dolomitic & calcitic limestone)

Biggest problem w/ this mix is what i circled 



Both Dolomite and Calcitic Limestone are Alkaline, carbon -based mineral ingredients.. By themselves, they would be good for " limestone loving " plants.. Yes, there are certain plants / groups of plants that will only grow in very specific soils.. Aren't grown in such soils?  plants will often slowly decline  ..if they don't croak right away.

When combined with Peat Moss,  Calcium / Carbon- rich rock or grit types often generates some weird chemical reaction that quickly degrades the Peat Moss down to nasty oxygen depleted muck that will create conditions ideal for root rot. ..

I myself steer clear of any wood products in my soil mixes either, esp for anything succulent i grow..

Doug Fir bark used to be used a lot in Orchid soil mixes until the better product  -Chunky, chopped Coconut Husk-  came along.. Far superior and plants are often healthier than specimens grown in bark.




 

[Colin1110082]

23 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

1st option:  Sand in their suggested mix appears it would be too fine...  Fine grade sand = holds a ton of water.  Combined w/ the Coco peat, ..and / or any other organic soil ingredient..  which would also retains moisture = not good,  even with the " chunkier " stuff added to their mix..  Perlite looks too fine of a grade as well..

Even if you didn't water much, it would likely still stay too wet indoors..  Under those conditions,  Peat moss will decompose faster, thus opening up opportunity for root rot issues.  Staying moist would degrade the Pine Bark faster as well..



2nd option is a good start / soil mix base  ..Just add some Cocopeat, maybe some Pine Bark, some grit,  and some Turface MVP.. 



3rd would be an ok Soil Mix base if it didn't include Peat moss / Vermiculitie..



Every cactus, and like 90- something % of every succulent i've ever bought which had been grown in a soil mix heavy in either ..or both  Peat moss / Vermiculite  would croak. ..And not because of it staying too wet either..  Some of the same soil mixes had Pumice and Perlite in them ..just not even close to enough of either.   

Learned quickly to un pot all purchased plants, wash off the yuck soil the nursery grew the plants in, and repot into the good stuff.



Thing about purchased soil mixes is you have absolutely no control over how the soil mix is put together ..So that $12 - $20 / 20+ bucks spent for what you assume will be a good mix, could end up being heavy in Organics / anything else you don't want much of / any of  in that mix when you get it and open the bag..  Never trust what some flashy advertisement says. 

Haven't purchased a bagged soil mix myself in like 12 years.. 

Better to get some buckets,  purchase individual soil components,  and mix together yourself  ...So you know exactly what the ratio of ingredients is, ...based off what the plant's natural preferences are. 



 

I think I finally found one. Hopefully this is the last time I ask 🤣 I’m just worried about buying a bad succulent soil.  Here’s one made of granite grit, calcined clay, coco coir, and natural quartzite. I also found another mix made of 1/3 each of these, pine coir, calcined clay, and monto clay. I also found another one with coarse sand, pumice, and red lava rocks and turface. I also found a bonsai jack mix which I think I’ve heard mentioned on this forum made of 1/3 of each of these, pine coir, calcined, and monto clay. I’m hoping that the 2nd one is okay because that’s the cheapest lol. 

[Silas_Sancona]

6 minutes ago, Colin1110082 said:

I think I finally found one. Hopefully this is the last time I ask 🤣 I’m just worried about buying a bad succulent soil.  Here’s one made of granite grit, calcined clay, coco coir, and natural quartzite. I also found another mix made of 1/3 each of these, pine coir, calcined clay, and monto clay. I also found another one with coarse sand, pumice, and red lava rocks and turface. I also found a bonsai jack mix which I think I’ve heard mentioned on this forum made of 1/3 of each of these, pine coir, calcined, and monto clay. I’m hoping that the 2nd one is okay because that’s the cheapest lol. 

First one sounds pretty good..  Second might be good, ...depending on the ratio of ingredients.. Heavy in Pine stuff, = might be too  acidic.

Monoto Clay sounds and looks like some version of  Turface MVP  ..Would be curious if it is just as durable ( doesn't break down to sludgy clay ) MVP lasts -quite awhile..  After screening / washing, re use it anytime something croaks.

Looking at it, for the price of a smallest amount offered of that stuff, you could pick up a 50lb bag of MVP.  50lbs of MVP might sound like a lot but you'll have it around when you need it.. Guaranteed, one Agave won't be the only one you'll grow.   Haven't met a person who didn't end up adding more after their first purchase.

[Colin1110082]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

First one sounds pretty good..  Second might be good, ...depending on the ratio of ingredients.. Heavy in Pine stuff, = might be too  acidic.

Monoto Clay sounds and looks like some version of  Turface MVP  ..Would be curious if it is just as durable ( doesn't break down to sludgy clay ) MVP lasts -quite awhile..  After screening / washing, re use it anytime something croaks.

Looking at it, for the price of a smallest amount offered of that stuff, you could pick up a 50lb bag of MVP.  50lbs of MVP might sound like a lot but you'll have it around when you need it.. Guaranteed, one Agave won't be the only one you'll grow.   Haven't met a person who didn't end up adding more after their first purchase.

I think I’ll go for the first one then. I have perlite and palm citrus cactus soil and I had some landscaping sand and I think I still have some of that quickcrete gravel. I got this to mix into my native soil which is a very fine sandy loam when I planted my opuntia humifusa. I didn’t add much of the palm soil or perlite I mostly just mixed in gravel. As I said there are wild ones some of the northernmost wild opuntia on the east coast about 20 miles to my south east. I can add more perlite to the first mix. All these soils I mentioned look very airy on the pictures. It looks like the stuff you see at the bottom of fish bowls. This stuff here. Doesn’t say the ratios but has no bark or peat. Can I also use perlite on the top as a decoration to make it white? The second mix with the pine bark is 33% of each of the items. 

[Silas_Sancona]

18 hours ago, Colin1110082 said:

I think I’ll go for the first one then. I have perlite and palm citrus cactus soil and I had some landscaping sand and I think I still have some of that quickcrete gravel. I got this to mix into my native soil which is a very fine sandy loam when I planted my opuntia humifusa. I didn’t add much of the palm soil or perlite I mostly just mixed in gravel. As I said there are wild ones some of the northernmost wild opuntia on the east coast about 20 miles to my south east. I can add more perlite to the first mix. All these soils I mentioned look very airy on the pictures. It looks like the stuff you see at the bottom of fish bowls. This stuff here. Doesn’t say the ratios but has no bark or peat. Can I also use perlite on the top as a decoration to make it white? The second mix with the pine bark is 33% of each of the items. 

Because it is light and will float up and out of the pot each time you water, definitely don't use Perlite as a top dressing..  Cleaned gravel ..Like the one option you'd mentioned that is primarily Lava Rock ..or any gravel option of a similar grade size... will stay put in the pot(s)

I myself also add in larger rock types to  some specimen potted stuff..

[Colin1110082]

3 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Because it is light and will float up and out of the pot each time you water, definitely don't use Perlite as a top dressing..  Cleaned gravel ..Like the one option you'd mentioned that is primarily Lava Rock ..or any gravel option of a similar grade size... will stay put in the pot(s)

I myself also add in larger rock types to  some specimen potted stuff..

Ah I see. I also ordered a saguaro cactus because why the hey not! See here is the thing, I haven’t ordered the agave yet because I am torn on parryi truncata and blue glow. I like parryi more but I heard blue glow is much more forgiving if it gets too little/too much water and light.