Palmes for Chihuahua city, Mexico

[Palmfarmer]

Helping my friend pick out some cool palms for his garden up there. Anybody got some cool suggestions? I was thinking perhaps a Zone push with a Queen and Bismarckia.

[Fusca]

I like the Bismarckia idea although I'm not sure how different winters might be from El Paso.  I would suggest a blue Copernicia alba or prunifera - they're pretty reliable down to -9°C when mature.

[SailorBold]

Definitely a mule.. or a super mule..   butia x jubaea... 

[Dwarf Fan]

Washingtonia filifera

Washingtonia robusta

Phoenix roebelenii

Phoenix reclinata

Butiagrus nabonnandii

Butia/Jubaea x Syagrus

Butia paraguayensis

Butia odorata

Butia eriospatha

Allagoptera arenaria

Syagrus coronata

Butia/Jubaea

Jubaea/Butia

Parajubaea sunkha

Lytocaryum weddellianum

Lytocaryum hoehnei

Livistona chinensis

Livistona nitidia

Livistona decipiens 

Trachycarpus fortunei

Trachycarpus fortunei 'wagnerianus'

Thrinax radiata

Rhapidophyllum hystrix

Chamaerops humilis

Chamaedorea radicalis

Chamaedorea costaricana

Chamaedorea microspadix

Chamaedorea tepejilote

Arenga engleri

Serenoa repens

Brahea moorei

Brahea dulcis

Brahea armata

Brahea ‘super silver’

Sabal mexicana

Sabal minor ‘Louisiana’

Sabal ‘Tamaulipas’

Sabal palmetto

Sabal minor

 Sabal etonia

[idontknowhatnametuse]

Maybe a Sabal mexicana and an Acrocomia mexicana but protected as young plants

[jwitt]

It can get cold. Down to zero in 2011.  Chihuahua is a cold 8b. 

[Palmfarmer]

On 8/26/2024 at 12:58 PM, Fusca said:

I like the Bismarckia idea although I'm not sure how different winters might be from El Paso.  I would suggest a blue Copernicia alba or prunifera - they're pretty reliable down to -9°C when mature.

Just going over the city on street view for 10 minutes I found some Queens. 

 

[Palmfarmer]

On 8/28/2024 at 8:02 AM, jwitt said:

It can get cold. Down to zero in 2011.  Chihuahua is a cold 8b. 

9A in practice probably. Just like here. We are 9A technically but can grow a lot of borderline 10A stuff. 

[Fusca]

6 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

Just going over the city on street view for 10 minutes I found some Queens. 

I remember seeing some good sized queens in El Paso the last time I was there but wondered how long they would last.  It's worth a try. 

[SeanK]

8 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

Just going over the city on street view for 10 minutes I found some Queens. 

 

I'll wager that those Queens are post-2011. 

[Palmfarmer]

2 hours ago, SeanK said:

I'll wager that those Queens are post-2011. 

Defintly those Queens are to small to be that old. Does it say where in the city that cold record was recorded and how long it was? Supposedly there was -10 here In Durango around 10 years ago. However looking at the palms it seems rather unlikely since many Royals are defintly older than that. 

[ChrisA]

I was also checking street view today as well and saw many that existed in 2009 and were still present (and had grown) in 2014. Looks like they survived the 2011 freeze?  Time and date.com shows weather records from Feb 2011 with an ultimate low of 9F on Feb 4 and Feb 3 below 20F the entire day. Maybe the palms were protected for that spell?  Also saw some nice eucalyptus, some of which didn’t survive the freeze.  I’d go with zone 9A for this city as well

[Palmfarmer]

1 hour ago, ChrisA said:

I was also checking street view today as well and saw many that existed in 2009 and were still present (and had grown) in 2014. Looks like they survived the 2011 freeze?  Time and date.com shows weather records from Feb 2011 with an ultimate low of 9F on Feb 4 and Feb 3 below 20F the entire day. Maybe the palms were protected for that spell?  Also saw some nice eucalyptus, some of which didn’t survive the freeze.  I’d go with zone 9A for this city as well

 in Chihuahua? Could you send the street view link

I am starting to think those temperatures are wrong or measured at a place with extremely cold microclimate. 

[Palmfarmer]

Browsed some more and found another Queen with the earliest snapshot taken 2009 in 2014 it was still doing well as well as 2021. I am starting to thing those readings are not correct. I also went back in time with every Robusta I saw and none of them had died between 09-2014. 0f should have killed a few robustas I believe.

 

[jwitt]

Not sure where in the city this weather is from, but I think it shows 14f (-10f) as the average annual low.  

Microclimates and siting could make a difference. 

[Palmfarmer]

13 hours ago, jwitt said:

Not sure where in the city this weather is from, but I think it shows 14f (-10f) as the average annual low.  

Microclimates and siting could make a difference. 

The city has a lot of hills. Look at the date it's from 1981 to 2000. 14F is certainly not the case anymore. What I find growing all over the city thriving are Phoenix Canariensis. Phoenix Datylifera. Robusta, Filibusta and Filiferas. I would Assume those palms would be in recovery trough parts of the year then. I was there in April/May one time and I saw no palms that was burnt that I remember either. 

[Palmfarmer]

I asked ChatGPT and it gave me an Accurate answers I think:

 

"The coldest recorded temperature in Chihuahua City, Mexico over the last 10 years occurred during the extreme cold wave in February 2021. On February 15, 2021, temperatures in Chihuahua City dropped to around -9°C (15.8°F), which was one of the lowest temperatures recorded in the city in recent history."

 

"Over the last 20 years, the coldest temperature recorded in Chihuahua City, Mexico was during a severe cold wave in December 2011. On December 26, 2011, temperatures in the city dropped to an extreme low of -10.6°C (12.9°F). This cold event was one of the most significant in recent decades, surpassing other cold waves in intensity"

 

"Over the last 30 years, the coldest temperature recorded in Chihuahua City, Mexico was in December 1997. On December 22, 1997, the temperature dropped to an extreme low of approximately -12°C (10.4°F). This was one of the coldest events in the city's recorded history, part of a severe cold wave that affected much of northern Mexico."

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, Palmfarmer said:

I asked ChatGPT and it gave me an Accurate answers I think:

 

"The coldest recorded temperature in Chihuahua City, Mexico over the last 10 years occurred during the extreme cold wave in February 2021. On February 15, 2021, temperatures in Chihuahua City dropped to around -9°C (15.8°F), which was one of the lowest temperatures recorded in the city in recent history."

 

"Over the last 20 years, the coldest temperature recorded in Chihuahua City, Mexico was during a severe cold wave in December 2011. On December 26, 2011, temperatures in the city dropped to an extreme low of -10.6°C (12.9°F). This cold event was one of the most significant in recent decades, surpassing other cold waves in intensity"

 

"Over the last 30 years, the coldest temperature recorded in Chihuahua City, Mexico was in December 1997. On December 22, 1997, the temperature dropped to an extreme low of approximately -12°C (10.4°F). This was one of the coldest events in the city's recorded history, part of a severe cold wave that affected much of northern Mexico."

Not sure i'd place lots of trust in the accuracy of AI generated info  but i also would question just how often that area might see the same lows again over the coming years...  Yes some random one off cold spell could happen but, ..Is just as possible the city doesn't see anything below 20F for the next 40-60 years, esp if your friend is in a warmer area vs closer to the mountains..

Here's the last Plant Maps edition of Mexico's USDA -rated climate zones.. Chih. is circled.. Couldn't fit in both Chih. City and Durango, so you could compare between the two cities.. 




Clearly some 9A there w/ specks of 9b not all that far away to the south and N.E. closer to the Mex. / TX border by Big Bend Nat. Park.

..Possible there is more 9B in warmer spots closer to ..the east or far southern side of the city now, since this edition of the map is from 2012 i believe.  Hoping Mexico will publish an update soon ..but regardless, if it is getting warmer here, it is warming down there.


 

[SeanK]

From what Chat GPT say, seems like 8b+.

Looking at the map, suggests that altitude varies a lot in the area and can affect minimums. California is similar. That's why it's climate maps are so detailed 

[jwitt]

8 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

The city has a lot of hills. Look at the date it's from 1981 to 2000. 14F is certainly not the case anymore. What I find growing all over the city thriving are Phoenix Canariensis. Phoenix Datylifera. Robusta, Filibusta and Filiferas. I would Assume those palms would be in recovery trough parts of the year then. I was there in April/May one time and I saw no palms that was burnt that I remember either. 

Perhaps Chihuahua is warming. 

I grew up with friends who were born in Chihuahua. They described cold with snow sometimes.  They also had winter clothes sufficient for ABQ, coming from Chihuahua. That spoke volumes in my mind. 

Those palm listed as growing in Chihuahua are also found in zone 8a(Alamogordo) and zone 8b(Las Cruces).  So those palms, in my mind do not indicate a warmer zone. 

Siting and microclimates could probably provide some keys to zone pushing there. But it does get some intense cold there. 

I vote for a Jubeaua/butia cross for long term tropical type palm growing there.  Mules and queens are probably a bit to tender, long term. 

But none the less, interesting, and keep us updated what is grown and attempted. 

 

 

[ChrisA]

On 8/31/2024 at 10:34 AM, jwitt said:

Not sure where in the city this weather is from, but I think it shows 14f (-10f) as the average annual low.  

Microclimates and siting could make a difference. 

Minima Extrema means the absolute lowest temperature recorded at this weather station between 1981 and 2000. The chart doesn’t include what the average lowest temperature each year. The averages of the minimum temp seen in each month is above freezing. Looking through charts containing daily recorded data seems to show that it gets into the 20’s nearly every winter, but does not seem to be a regular occurrence and there are some winter months that failed to record a freezing temp.  I think 9A would be a safe estimate of the zone for Chihuahua City and the plants I see on the street views are indicative of that. More like more temperate El Paso given its higher elevation.