Plants that don't do well in the tropics

[Zroota]

There was a thread about Delonix riga (Royal Poinciana) blooming in higher latitudes areas like Sydney (since that tree blooms more profusely in places closer to the tropics).

Now, conversely, are there plants that don't do well in the tropics and would bloom better in more temperate/subtropical climates? If so, what are these plants? Just curious.

[Silas_Sancona]

On 8/27/2024 at 1:27 AM, Zroota said:

There was a thread about Delonix riga (Royal Poinciana) blooming in higher latitudes areas like Sydney (since that tree blooms more profusely in places closer to the tropics).

Now, conversely, are there plants that don't do well in the tropics and would bloom better in more temperate/subtropical climates? If so, what are these plants? Just curious.

Discussions like this can be tricky and involve many angles one has to consider and at times,  it seems many people don't tease apart  in finite -enough detail..

For one, are we talking the TRUE  tropics? IE: the constantly wet equatorial portion of the tropics,  or, more broadly, the entire tropics ..which includes some hyper arid desert regions in various parts of the world?

Some could tease out that last part and place areas like that within the " sub " tropics, but placing say the Sonoran Desert into the sub tropics climate category isn't always a good fit.. 

While other folks have their own definition(s) to describe it,  For me, two things define " the tropics " Summer vs winter dominance rainfall-wise,  ..and of course winter lows..

Increased dominance of summer rainfall + mild to warm ( consistently above 25F ) lows during the cool season = lean Tropics..

Winter dominant rainfall + winter low temps cool / cold ...consistently below 25F = lean temperate regions..

Of course there are variations on that basic theme ..EQ tropics are always warm / hot ..and wet..  Some areas of the mid latitudes may be considered winter-temperate, but still see plenty of summer rainfall and can be hot at that time of year..



As it relates to the question, easy to imagine plants that don't like constant heat ..and/ or year round rainfall / high constant humidity  generally wouldn't thrive in the true tropics..  So, think of anything that grows in more temperate regions that hates those conditions / combined conditions.. ..A sizable list..

This is outside any high mountainous regions within the true tropics of course.. There are some temperate plants which can tolerate those areas with varying degrees of success, but only because they are often cooler than the lower elevations of the EQ Tropics.

Reverse is true for plants from that constantly hot / wet belt of the tropics.. Majority will often detest much -if any- variance in the constantly ideal conditions they evolved in.. Orchids that like it hot  -and wet,  all year / stress out and die if they experience even 2 or 3 nights below 60F are one good example.. 



By far,  a majority of the most adaptable plants on the planet will have their origin in the tropical  margins..  AKA:  areas within the overall tropics that while ...tropical.. experience variance.. IE: dry seasons of varying length / maybe a little cool weather in winter every so often ....places where the year to year / decade to decade climate  isn't always consistent / stable / can toss curve balls every so often.

Plants that evolved in those regions evolved to essentially " roll with it "   ...survive 4-8 months of searing drought, and /or the occasional night or two where low temps might reach the mid 30s to mid 40s either every winter, or say during 2 out of 12 winter seasons.. 

Some things that evolved in the drier/ less stable tropics would / do adjust fine if / when grown in areas in the tropics that are more ideal rainfall wise / don't experience low temps below say 50F.   Others may not.. Just depends on how adaptable they might be ..or aren't. 

A good example?, up until roughly a decade ago i'd assumed that the subfamily of Pachyneurium  Anthuriums  were strictly tropical ..Essentially  originating from within the " constantly ideal, hot n' steamy all year " region of the New World Tropics..

Turns out, my assumption was a bit off..  While the distribution of some sps. might hang close to such areas, others occur -naturally- in much drier reaches of the tropics here in the Americas,  particularly in Mexico ..

One look at iNaturalist photo observations from the " margin " areas within this group of Anthurium's  distribution  and you'll see pictures of these " tropical " looking plants growing next to / tucked within cacti on some  very rocky and dry looking landscapes that could pass for a landscape here.. Do they look perfect? ..tough to say.. would have to see the same plants after a good wet season.. 

Still, while they might grow fuller / faster near the Equator, sited in a landscape correctly, a few at least can be grown outside, in the ground, in -at least- S. California, Cen. and S. FL.,  ..and even in the " about as dry and dusty most of the year as Phoenix or Tucson can be " desert " in Sonora Mexico.. and look good w/out too much hassle.

Now turn it around... 

Desert Ironwood ( Olneya tesota ) one of our regions iconic trees ..that is also tropical in origin / is an obvious sign one has  reached the " tropical " portion of the American Desert regions, ...lower elevation Sonoran region at least  ( Doesn't grow in the Chihuahuan Desert, the other major warm / " tropical " desert region north of the equator )..

While i can't say it couldn't,  careful study of it's evolution / likes / dislikes habitat-wise would suggest it might not adapt well to the true tropics, even if it would never see low temperatures below 55F ever again..  Doesn't like cold / wet  winter temperate regions, like say the Pac. N.W. /  U.S. Eastern states either..

Numerous other plant sps / genera in Mexico with ancestral origins in the tropics that probably would not do that great in the true tropics either even though that is where many originated originally.

..But, there are at least a few that would / do..  Handroanthus impetiginosus,  the common Pink Ipe' / Pink Trumpet Tree  is one example that comes to mind.. 

Depending on where it is observed, the same " Trumpet Tree "  species can be a short, kind of sparse looking tree that goes dormant for a few months in the dry, scrubby forests of Sonora or Sinaloa,  or it can be a lush and impressive monster of a tree dead center in the Amazon, or Pantanal in Brazil..

Kapok, Ceiba pentandra  is another example ..HUGE trees in the Amazon,  MASSIVE specimens just a few hundred miles to my south in Hermosillo, Sonora Mexico..  Hermosillo's hot and dry -most of the year- climate is a far cry from the stable and seemingly perfect hot and wet -all year- climate in Manaus, Brazil, right on the Amazon. Pretty sure there are at least a couple specimens in Southern California as well..

Delonix regia originates in the dry tropics  where time guided it's resilience regarding dealing with some significant, climate- related stressors / challenges where year to year consistency of climate isn't always guaranteed.  Learning the lessons of adaptability through it's evolution as a species is one reason it has decent adaptability outside the assumed definition of the " Tropics "  ..even if it won't grow in say Seattle or New Zealand..  At this point in time at least. 


 

[SeanK]

Aside from deciduous fruiting trees (Malus, Prunus) that require cold, maybe coffee and cocoa which, can't take cold but can't take too much heat, either.

[PalmsInBaltimore]

It seems like a comparison of popular ornamental plants in Melbourne vs. the Torres Strait would be a pretty big list, but I'm not familiar with what grows in Australia because it seems like everything does

[miamicuse]

There is a long list of aquatic plants that do not grow well in the tropics and subtropics due to having a maximum water temperature if exceeded will just perish.

One such example is the fragrant Water hawthorn (Aponogeton Distachyos), it could grow in colder climates but not in the tropics.

[Than]

Coriander. I tried it in Indonesia and it just died slowly

[Silas_Sancona]

9 hours ago, Than said:

Coriander. I tried it in Indonesia and it just died slowly

Seems like it will grow in the tropics.. 

[Zroota]

On 8/30/2024 at 9:53 AM, Silas_Sancona said:

Discussions like this can be tricky and involve many angles one has to consider and at times,  it seems many people don't tease apart  in finite -enough detail..

For one, are we talking the TRUE  tropics? IE: the constantly wet equatorial portion of the tropics,  or, more broadly, the entire tropics ..which includes some hyper arid desert regions in various parts of the world?
 

A beautiful analysis up there Silas (had to snip it for page size and because I want to reply to one of your points) 👌👍

To answer your question, generally I mean all of the "proper" tropics like tropical rainforest climates and tropical savannahs (wet & dry ones). I do not include tropical deserts though, like Dubai. As they're too dry for many plant species either way.

Oh, what about Cactus? I wonder if they grow well in consistently hot & humid places like Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia? 

[Silas_Sancona]

14 minutes ago, Zroota said:

A beautiful analysis up there Silas (had to snip it for page size and because I want to reply to one of your points) 👌👍

To answer your question, generally I mean all of the "proper" tropics like tropical rainforest climates and tropical savannahs (wet & dry ones). I do not include tropical deserts though, like Dubai. As they're too dry for many plant species either way.

Oh, what about Cactus? I wonder if they grow well in consistently hot & humid places like Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia? 

It depends on the Cactus... 

Those considered " Jungle " types ..Genus like Epiphyllum, Hylocereus, Rhipsalis  ..Which is the only Cacti Genus native to the Old World, would be the easiest / most adaptable in the near - Equator tropical areas..

There are others ..Some columnar types from Mexico, central and far N' rn S. America that would probably do ok in S.E. Asia near the EQ..

Some Opuntia Aka Prickly Pear sps can be found growing in the wet tropics world -wide as well..

At the other end of the spectrum, true desert Cacti like say our iconic Saguaro? majority ..if not all would probably a no go in the hot / wet tropics.. Same w/ those from the deserts outside the tropics in S. America.. 


As far as the " tropical " deserts go,  i think the biggest thing that dictates what might / might not grow in some place like Dubai is more a consequence of current geography than anything else.. 

Dubai sits at ~roughly~ the same 25 -27 deg latitude as towns right on the Sonora / Sinaloa line in N.W. Mexico..  No massive  1,300 mile wide desert separating the near EQ tropics from that part of Mexico, nor a large Sea separating the temperate zones from that same part of Mexico to the north..

Couldn't tell you whether or not they'd grow in Dubai / that part of the world  but at that same latitude in Mexico, you start seeing some pretty tropical looking Orchids, ..The hardiest species of Bird's Nest Anthurium ..and some other tropical looking plants in the overall Arum family, ..among other stuff that you wouldn't expect to find in an area of the world that borders on pretty dry half of the year, that can also see the occasional night or two below 50F / rare taste of sub 40F chill every now and again in winter.

At the same time, head due east about 200miles and you're standing up on the top of the Mexican Plateau where it can snow and there are numerous plants that have ties to the true Temperate and / or polar regions.. ..At 25deg lat.  Pretty wild..








 

[Xenon]

On 8/29/2024 at 8:02 PM, SeanK said:

Aside from deciduous fruiting trees (Malus, Prunus) that require cold, maybe coffee and cocoa which, can't take cold but can't take too much heat, either.

Cacao is ultra-tropical and native to very tropical areas in the Amazon where it never drops below 60F. The commercial cacao belt is almost exclusively tropical from the Caribbean  to West Africa and Madagascar. It's also expanding into southern Vietnam in the Mekong Delta which is zone 13B. 

Coffee does fine in the lowland tropics but is more prone to disease and doesn't reach the cup quality that it can at higher elevations. The best quality is achieved with high diurnal variation i.e 75F high 50F low year round. 

[Zroota]

21 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

It depends on the Cactus... 

Those considered " Jungle " types ..Genus like Epiphyllum, Hylocereus, Rhipsalis  ..Which is the only Cacti Genus native to the Old World, would be the easiest / most adaptable in the near - Equator tropical areas..

There are others ..Some columnar types from Mexico, central and far N' rn S. America that would probably do ok in S.E. Asia near the EQ..

Some Opuntia Aka Prickly Pear sps can be found growing in the wet tropics world -wide as well..

At the other end of the spectrum, true desert Cacti like say our iconic Saguaro? majority ..if not all would probably a no go in the hot / wet tropics.. Same w/ those from the deserts outside the tropics in S. America.. 


As far as the " tropical " deserts go,  i think the biggest thing that dictates what might / might not grow in some place like Dubai is more a consequence of current geography than anything else.. 

Dubai sits at ~roughly~ the same 25 -27 deg latitude as towns right on the Sonora / Sinaloa line in N.W. Mexico..  No massive  1,300 mile wide desert separating the near EQ tropics from that part of Mexico, nor a large Sea separating the temperate zones from that same part of Mexico to the north..

Couldn't tell you whether or not they'd grow in Dubai / that part of the world  but at that same latitude in Mexico, you start seeing some pretty tropical looking Orchids, ..The hardiest species of Bird's Nest Anthurium ..and some other tropical looking plants in the overall Arum family, ..among other stuff that you wouldn't expect to find in an area of the world that borders on pretty dry half of the year, that can also see the occasional night or two below 50F / rare taste of sub 40F chill every now and again in winter.

At the same time, head due east about 200miles and you're standing up on the top of the Mexican Plateau where it can snow and there are numerous plants that have ties to the true Temperate and / or polar regions.. ..At 25deg lat.  Pretty wild..








 

Again, excellent put and informative stuff. 👌

Say, I was thinking about Pink Jasmine (Jasminum polyanthum) and  Asiatic jasmine (Trachelospermum asiaticum) - In the temperate and subtropical regions they normally bloom (rather profusely) in early spring to late spring. I wonder now, if you plant those in Singapore or Kuala Lumpur, where it's consistently hot and humid, when will they bloom (in such a "one-season" climate)? This has been a burning question of mine for years. 

[Silas_Sancona]

28 minutes ago, Zroota said:

Again, excellent put and informative stuff. 👌

Say, I was thinking about Pink Jasmine (Jasminum polyanthum) and  Asiatic jasmine (Trachelospermum asiaticum) - In the temperate and subtropical regions they normally bloom (rather profusely) in early spring to late spring. I wonder now, if you plant those in Singapore or Kuala Lumpur, where it's consistently hot and humid, when will they bloom (in such a "one-season" climate)? This has been a burning question of mine for years. 

Tough question for both..  Possible one or both sticks to a strict spring flowering period, ..or maybe you'd see a situation where they have two flowering cycles ..In both spring and fall..



 

[Zroota]

On 9/6/2024 at 4:49 PM, Silas_Sancona said:

Tough question for both..  Possible one or both sticks to a strict spring flowering period, ..or maybe you'd see a situation where they have two flowering cycles ..In both spring and fall..



 

Indeed, considering that the tropics don't really have a spring or fall. 

Here in Sydney,  Pyrostegia (orange trumpet vine) bloom profusely in winter (as they do in all temperate/subtropical zones).

Now place them in 'seasonless' tropical areas places like Singapore or Jakarta, when will they "know" it's cooler to bloom? Or perhaps they would rarely bloom? Really is something to ponder over as a garden enthusiast.  🤔

 

[Silas_Sancona]

13 minutes ago, Zroota said:

Indeed, considering that the tropics don't really have a spring or fall. 

Here in Sydney,  Pyrostegia (orange trumpet vine) bloom profusely in winter (as they do in all temperate/subtropical zones).

Now place them in 'seasonless' tropical areas places like Singapore or Jakarta, when will they "know" it's cooler to bloom? Or perhaps they would rarely bloom? Really is something to ponder over as a garden enthusiast.  🤔

 

More than likely, they'd follow some slight but noticeable -to them-  temperature based cue ..Say  flowering at any time of year when it is slightly cooler than the hotter parts of the year.. 🤷‍♂️ 

Pyrostegia venusta comes from Brazil and ..if you look over photos on iNaturalist,  can be seen flowering in almost any month in places where observed on or just N/S of the EQ.

Have seen it flowering in winter / early Spring in FL.,  Mine flowered  Fall / early winter in Central CA..  May flower as late as May or early June in S. Cal.

[ChrisA]

Tree genera that cannot survive in the tropics (areas with tropical climates according to Koeppen) to my knowledge (not exhaustive):

Abies - Fir trees

Betula - Birch tree

Picea - Spruce trees

Not aware of any tropical pine trees (Pinus) although there are many that reach into subtropical areas that are sensitive to freezing weather (P. canariensis for one, and P. hallapensis for a second).

As mentioned many temperate fruit trees require a certain number of chill hours in order set flowers and fruit.

 

Any other big tree groups I’m missing?

[Xenon]

57 minutes ago, ChrisA said:

 

Not aware of any tropical pine trees (Pinus) although there are many that reach into subtropical areas that are sensitive to freezing weather (P. canariensis for one, and P. hallapensis for a second).

There are several tropical pines i.e Pinus caribaea in the Bahamas and Caribbean, several species in low-mid elevation SE Asia, etc. 

[ChrisA]

Yes! I forgot about Pinus caribaea! Thanks Jonathan!