Little ID help

[Beachsider]

Hi there. I’ve been lurking on the site a little while now. Always reading always learning. First post. I found this from a local grower here in Brevard county Florida. He wasn’t totally sure what it was. It caught my eye right away. I thought it might be a dypsis pembana or similar. I’d really appreciate your thoughts on ID. I want to put it in the ground soon but want to have a better idea so I don’t get myself in trouble with wrong placement. Thanks in advance. I can post better pics if someone needs a better angle. 

[Merlyn]

@Beachsider it sure looks like a type of Chrysalidocarpus, formerly known as Dypsis.  I'd guess not Pembana or Lanceolata because the leaves are fairly narrow.  It doesn't really look like Lutescens either, though I suppose it's possible.  Other possibles are Baronii, Arenarum, Cabadae or even Albofarinosa.  Most of them can take full sun in FL, and in Broward you probably won't have to worry about frost damage.  Hopefully someone else can give a more positive ID.  But I'd pick a sunny spot with enough growth space for a 3-6' diameter cluster, just in case it turns out to be one of the aggressively clustering types.

[Beachsider]

Thanks Merlyn. I appreciate your response. I’m a couple hours north of Broward County. Just a few miles south of cocoa beach/cape canaveral. So maybe a little cooler when we get a cold snap. I’d been looking for something similar to this for a while but I know some of these can cluster aggressively and some more manageable. There are some hybrids floating around the area if I recall.  But I have a lot to learn before I could identify anything like this. But is a hybrid possible? 

again, I really appreciate your advising Meryl. 

[Beachsider]

Fingers crossed it clusters less aggressively. I don’t want my wife to suspend my gardening license. 
 

[Harry’s Palms]

I agree , some form of Chrysalidocarpus/ Dypsis . I just don’t know which one . Lovely palm . Harry

[RiverCityRichard]

Looks just like my Chrysalidocarpus Pembanus (formerly Dypsis Pembana) of the same size. Should grow great for you in Brevard. Pretty cold tolerant so long as you can keep the frost off. Mine have been growing quick in native sugar sand, but with regular fertilizer they take off like rockets.

[Merlyn]

@Beachsider a hybrid is definitely possible.  I think an ID will be easier once it's grown out a couple of full sun fronds.  The reason I was thinking it's not Pembana is the leaf width on the tallest fronds.  I looked at two of mine in the yard.  When small (under 3') the leaves tend to be smaller and narrower.  This one in my front yard is in AM sun and PM shade, and the middle leaves are about 2" wide x 20" long.  For reference, a full sun Lutescens is about 0.75" wide x 15" long.  If yours doesn't have fairly broad leaves it probably isn't a Pembana or Lanceolata.  But that doesn't rule out any of the other types that thrive in FL.

[Merlyn]

Here's another Pembana on the West side, recently planted from a 3g pot.  It was in a partly shaded spot in my nursery area.  You can see the leaves are much narrower in this one, despite being from the same seed batch.  They'll probably get broader once it gets to 4-5' tall:

[tim_brissy_13]

Hard to say for sure with those stretched out fronds, but I’d say C cabadae. For sure it’s either C cabadae or C pembanus or possibly some hybrid with at least one of them as a parent. 

[Beachsider]

Thanks for the guidance everyone. I’m hoping to get it in the ground this weekend. I’ll be sure to post pics. 

[Beachsider]

On 9/7/2024 at 9:54 PM, RiverCityRichard said:

Looks just like my Chrysalidocarpus Pembanus (formerly Dypsis Pembana) of the same size. Should grow great for you in Brevard. Pretty cold tolerant so long as you can keep the frost off. Mine have been growing quick in native sugar sand, but with regular fertilizer they take off like rockets.

What fertilizer do you tend to use? I know there’s probably better options than what the big box has nearby my house. I hate to admit, but I’m scared of fertilizers. I feel I’m always going to be too heavy handed. 

[Merlyn]

@Beachsider the common recommendation on here is PalmGain or Florikan 8-2-12 for most of Floriduh.  I've got ~300 palms in the ground and ~275 cycads, and I typically use about 90lb of Sunniland 6-1-8 four times per year.  I'm sure PalmGain would be better, but it's about twice the price for equivalent nitrogen/potassium content.  Is it twice as good?  Maybe yes...maybe no. 

[RiverCityRichard]

5 hours ago, Beachsider said:

What fertilizer do you tend to use? I know there’s probably better options than what the big box has nearby my house. I hate to admit, but I’m scared of fertilizers. I feel I’m always going to be too heavy handed. 

I use Palmgain. A small handful for my potted ones 3-4x a year and a full red solo cup around the drip line of my 5ish foot tall trunking one in the ground

[PalmatierMeg]

Chrysalidocarpus cabadae. It has much thinner trunks than pembana or lanceolata. Lanceolata is a total wimp. All my young ones died except for one, which Hurricane Irma took out. Hurricanes Irma & Ian broke all my pembanas but one trunk at ground level. Won't try that one again. Nor is it C. lutescens which displays stem colors of lime green, yellow, orange and rose pink with black speckles.

Baronii is a no-grow in most of FL - it can't take 6-7 months of summer swelter. Leave it in Cali.  Same with arenarum and albofarinosus. Many of the larger-growing Chrystalidocarpus can't survive FL wet heat, humidity and nighttime swelter. I've tried a number of species (carlsmithii, decipiens, hovomantsina, nauseosus, pilulifer, plumosus, prestonianus, robustus, saintelucei). None survived more than a few months to a year or so.

[Merlyn]

@PalmatierMeg I was thinking Cabadae too, after looking at my smaller one up in the front yard.  It has somewhat smaller leaves than Pembana and it has the right coloring. 

I have two Baronii in the ground here and they are...growing...slowly.  I bought them from Floribunda last summer and they have done okay here.  I had tried Baronii from a CFPACS meet/sale and they just sat there in the ground slowly shrinking.  I'm still hopeful that the Floribunda ones will turn into something nice next year.  If not, into the bin they go!

I'm surprised you had issues with Arenarum, I thought those were supposed to be happy in South FL.  I bought several seedlings in ~2020 and planted a couple of them.  This one is the biggest at about 6' tall.  Mine might be the "fake" Arenarum, since apparently there's some dispute over which species is which.  This one doesn't have the red/brown new spear, so it could very well be the ones Palmpedia suggests are "in dispute."

 

[Beachsider]

I picked a spot that has no overhead or underground obstructions and plenty of space around. I really wanted this palm in a spot that I could see daily rather than side of the house etc. I can see it from the kitchen window. Very pleased. I’ll post more pics shortly. Maybe a clearer pic will help. Cabadae would be great. That’s the look I’m going for. But we will see. The suspense is fun too. 
 

follow up fertilizer question. How long do you wait after planting to begin your fertilization routine?  
 

 

[Merlyn]

@Beachsider I typically wait at least a month before adding any fertilizer to new plantings.  You don't want to burn new roots while it is growing out into the surrounding soil.  At around a month you could do a light dose, like maybe 1/2 a handful of PalmGain sprinkled evenly around the "canopy area."  At 2-3 months I'd do a regular dose.

[tim_brissy_13]

On 9/15/2024 at 2:14 AM, Merlyn said:

@PalmatierMeg I was thinking Cabadae too, after looking at my smaller one up in the front yard.  It has somewhat smaller leaves than Pembana and it has the right coloring. 

I have two Baronii in the ground here and they are...growing...slowly.  I bought them from Floribunda last summer and they have done okay here.  I had tried Baronii from a CFPACS meet/sale and they just sat there in the ground slowly shrinking.  I'm still hopeful that the Floribunda ones will turn into something nice next year.  If not, into the bin they go!

I'm surprised you had issues with Arenarum, I thought those were supposed to be happy in South FL.  I bought several seedlings in ~2020 and planted a couple of them.  This one is the biggest at about 6' tall.  Mine might be the "fake" Arenarum, since apparently there's some dispute over which species is which.  This one doesn't have the red/brown new spear, so it could very well be the ones Palmpedia suggests are "in dispute."

 

Kind of hard to see but doesn’t look at all like arenarum to me. From the photo honestly it looks more like Archontophoenix alexandrae to me. Silver abaxial surface?

[Merlyn]

17 minutes ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Kind of hard to see but doesn’t look at all like arenarum to me. From the photo honestly it looks more like Archontophoenix alexandrae to me. Silver abaxial surface?

You know, that's a good point.  It might be Archontophoenix Tuckeri.  I bought both from Meangreen94z at the same time, and I might have mixed up the labels.  Now I'll need to go out in the yard and see where I planted the "Tuckeri" and if I might have mixed them up with "Arenarum."  I'm guessing they are not Alexandrae just because I only have one of them and it's been in the front yard since before I bought the ones from Meangreen94z.  Time for some palm ID hunting tomorrow!

[tim_brissy_13]

9 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

You know, that's a good point.  It might be Archontophoenix Tuckeri.  I bought both from Meangreen94z at the same time, and I might have mixed up the labels.  Now I'll need to go out in the yard and see where I planted the "Tuckeri" and if I might have mixed them up with "Arenarum."  I'm guessing they are not Alexandrae just because I only have one of them and it's been in the front yard since before I bought the ones from Meangreen94z.  Time for some palm ID hunting tomorrow!

Definitely could be tuckeri. I can’t tell it apart from alexandrae at that size other than sometime tuckeri start to produce more consistent and bright red new fronds but it’s not a definitive trait.