Video about Tropical Places that can freeze

[cbmnz]

This came up at random in my Youtube feed, thought it was well done and covered topics often discussed on Palmtalk.

 

s

[Silas_Sancona]

On 9/17/2024 at 3:26 AM, cbmnz said:

This came up at random in my Youtube feed, thought it was well done and covered topics often discussed on Palmtalk.

 

s

Agree, a pretty good explanation on how cold air can reach some unexpected places..

  Only thing i'd counter is that there are numerous species of Bromeliads in various genera that have reasonable cold tolerance  inc. some of the " tank types "  so, in those cases, while the foliage might get damaged in a moderate freeze, they can survive / recover from that damage.  ..Same w/ numerous Orchids / Aroid -type plants growing in these areas.

Since many also grow up in trees, that too lessens what cold exposure they might experience ..Compared to any that are growing on the ground where cold air pools / might linger.



In this part of the world, the video also demonstrates why the distribution ranges of numerous plants / plant families, and/or genera, and animals directly tied to the tropics can extend much further north on the western side of Mexico, compared to the east..  and why here in the U.S. " ..the west, is best "   ...at least when it comes to escaping 95-something % of the arctic outbreaks that can effect the U.S. each winter.  ..Thanks in big part to both the Rockies and Mexican Plateau..

As mentioned a few times elsewhere over the years,  pattern set up ..to get really icy air down here or into CA, coastal valleys,  and majority of S.Cal, west of the deserts esp.,  has to be very specific, otherwise we sit back and watch most or all of that cold air roll on by down the high plains toward the Gulf of Mexico / Atlantic.

That said, if or when a really cold pool of air manages to seep west or southwest of the Rockies / Rim ( here in AZ ),  and/or the Sierra Nevada in CA., that cold air can linger a little longer than back east  ..if the Wx pattern doesn't present a change strong enough to help scour out or rapidly modify that lingering cold air quickly after it arrives.

Warm / dry wind shift out of the southwest is typically what ends any unusual cold spells here Dec-Feb, esp. on this side of the Rim. 

 

[SeanK]

Fundamentally flawed, as is the Köppen system.

There are no tropical regions that experience frost because in the TRUE low-elevation tropics, temperatures rarely drop below 15°C. Never drop below 10°C. Period. I realize that folks in SoFL want it to be tropical; it is not.

On the other side of the world, Siberian winds don't reach south India or Myanmar or SE Asia. 

The Southern hemisphere has the climatic advantage of liquid water flowing around the Antarctic Circle. 

 

[Xerarch]

Nice video, unfortunately I experience this first hand here in S TX, nowhere else in the world at this latitude and on the coast would it get as cold as it can here.

[Xerarch]

15 minutes ago, SeanK said:

Fundamentally flawed, as is the Köppen system.

There are no tropical regions that experience frost because in the TRUE low-elevation tropics

 

Did you watch the video? Tampico Mexico is inside and the tropics, on the coast, has native tropical vegetation, and has experienced freezes. 

[SeanK]

7 hours ago, Xerarch said:

Did you watch the video? Tampico Mexico is inside and the tropics, on the coast, has native tropical vegetation, and has experienced freezes. 

"inside the tropics"; what does that mean?

If it has had a freeze in the last 100+ years, then by default it is not tropical.

Forget what Köppen said.

[Xerarch]

2 hours ago, SeanK said:

"inside the tropics"; what does that mean?

If it has had a freeze in the last 100+ years, then by default it is not tropical.

Forget what Köppen said.

Inside the tropics means it’s somewhere between the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn. The literal definition of the tropics according to the tilt of the earth in relation to the sun. 

[SeanK]

51 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

Inside the tropics means it’s somewhere between the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn. The literal definition of the tropics according to the tilt of the earth in relation to the sun. 

So are Zacatecas, Zacatecas or Mollendo, Bolivia tropical? Inside the Tropics doesn't guarantee a tropical climate.

[mnorell]

3 hours ago, SeanK said:

So are Zacatecas, Zacatecas or Mollendo, Bolivia tropical? Inside the Tropics doesn't guarantee a tropical climate.

Sean, you are getting geography and climate mixed up...the tropics are, as Xerarch said, the area between the Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn (and therefore has at least one day when the sun is at a 90-degree angle to the earth). So yes, Zacatecas, for example, is within the tropics. But it is also at about 8000' elevation.

Conversely, I lived in the Florida Keys, about 65 miles north of the Tropic of Cancer, in what is generally considered a modified oceanic tropical climate (in that those islands are relatively close to land, and receive cold fronts in winter, but they are modified somewhat by the usually mild-to-warm waters that surround the islands). But those islands are also rather xeric in plant composition and limited in the (non-irrigated) plant material that survives there, because the islands don't have enough land-mass to create convection, and therefore the plants have to rely on uneven groundwater availability (i.e., existing only in the Lower Keys); on atmospheric humidity (which boosts plant turgor and leaf-absorption of moisture) and the drifting remnants of summer storms coming from Cuba or from southwestern Florida (or large dumps from occasional tropical storms/hurricanes); whereas the coastal strip of southeastern Florida from Miami to Palm Beach or so, though even farther north and subject to more cold-intrusions in winter, has a summer rainfall pattern much more in line with what most people would stereotypically think of as a "tropical" climate awash in lush greenery and daily drenching storms. Also deep into the tropics one can find locations (Aruba being a good example) that look more like a cactus-laden southwestern desert than a "tropical island."

As far as general climate goes, there is not one "tropical" climate (and most importantly, many "categorized" climates can have uncharacteristic weather occurrences from time to time). There are lowland tropical climates (in Spanish these areas are called the tierra caliente), moderately elevated tropical climates (tierra templada), and montane/alpine tropical climates (tierra fria). And as Nathan noted, these climates are modified further by geographic barriers (usually some sort of mountain range but often large cordilleras) that modify both cold and warm air (and which also cause the cold air damming noted in the video); by rainfall patterns and windward or leeward (rain-shadow) positions, etc. So the video is quite correct in that respect.

In short, we are all guilty of throwing around the term "tropical climate" and usually we just mean "a climate with weather patterns typical of the wet lowland tropics" when we say it; but there is far more to the picture than that, and it doesn't necessarily correlate with the exact borders of the tropics.

[Xerarch]

5 hours ago, SeanK said:

So are Zacatecas, Zacatecas or Mollendo, Bolivia tropical? Inside the Tropics doesn't guarantee a tropical climate.

Tampico is not at high elevation, it’s at sea level, on the coast, tropical vegetation, and yes, inside the tropics, and it has recorded freezes. The whole point of the video was showing how cold air masses can penetrate low latitudes and places where tropical temperatures normally dominate. It was an interesting watch for a phenomenon certain parts of the world exhibit.