Weak Potted Queen Palm

[kimgerlach1]

Hello everyone,

 

I bought a potted queen palm from facebook marketplace this year. It was a 5 1/2 foot trunk about ten feet high with it's fronds (if that is the right word). The previous owner had put ties around the fronds to hold them upright. I was assuming that it was because, as she told me, that the palm had not been outside for four years since the day she bought it. I thought that had perhaps made the fronds weak due to having no resistance given to them. I took the ties off because I thought they were ugly and the very first time a strong wind came, boom, it bent and laid on the ground. The next newest one gave me hope as it would grow outdoors, but it did the exact same thing. I did save it by propping it up against my roof for several months. And then, once again, yesterday we had strong winds and it fell off and bent very severely at the base. 

I have it on my deck, but it is right up against the wall of my home and in a corner between two connecting walls. I thought that it would get the protection it needed that way. 

Is this a queen palm thing?

Is this what I suspected, not having any wind resistance made it weak?

Thank you all so much for your generous offerings of insight!

[SeanK]

Without seeing, I imagine that the leaves provide a lot of surface area to the wind. The root/pot combination is insufficient to support the above-ground mass. Also, Queen palm leaves form a deep parabola (y = -x^2) and can easily reach the ground until the trunk is at full calibre.

[SeanK]

1 minute ago, SeanK said:

Without seeing, I imagine that the leaves provide a lot of surface area to the wind. The root/pot combination is insufficient to support the above-ground mass. Also, Queen palm leaves form a deep parabola (y = -x^2) and can easily reach the ground until the trunk is at full calibre.

I will add that, unless you're moving to z9b or warmer you might consider  Lady Palm (Rhapis) or a Spindle Palm (Hyophorbe) as indoor candidates.

[Harry’s Palms]

It is weak because it was grown indoors without the environment it needs to grow properly. They are not very good houseplants . It would need some protection in the winter, like a heated greenhouse in your area . There is also soil condition to consider when growing palms in pots. Harry

[kimgerlach1]

I'm going to go and take a photo so that you all can see the pot size and everything. The previous owner had it in the same pot the entire time. I repotted it into the next size up plus an inch and the roots looked very good. There were no holes in the pot the previous owner had it in....Be right back

[kimgerlach1]

I agree that it is not a good houseplant. I plan on keeping it indoors for no longer than 2 months hopefully. I will provide protection for it. I wish that I could find a company locally that stores them for you. I don't know of any in Virginia and the ones that are outside of that area don't come here.  

And now that I look at it, it's actually not as tall of a trunk as my brain figured on.  But I hope that the images help. 

 

 

[kimgerlach1]

And I did use super chunky and well draining soil when I repotted it. I use Palm Gain fertilizer on the proper schedule.

[Harry’s Palms]

It looks good for a potted Syagrus R. Your strategy should work as I see other palms on your deck that look like they well are cared for. The Queen will want sun as it gets older . Right now the cooler temps are going to slow it down a bit so just protect it when it turns from cool to cold. Virginia gets very cold compared to here where they thrive. We visited my wife’s cousin ,who lives near Shenandoah Park , in November ….burrr! I told him “ it gets cold here ‘ , he said “ oh , this isn’t cold!”  Harry

[kimgerlach1]

Thank you Harry! It does indeed get super cold. I wanted to move to the equator but I could only get the hubs to move 90 minutes south from 7a to 7b. I have many different types of palms and they are all seemingly doing quite well. So I was so sad to see my queen struggle this way. I'm glad that you think my suspicion that it is due to never having been outside is correct. That really does give me hope. I will provide protection for it as long as I can and when that isn't enough, for the time being, it is small enough to bring indoors. When it gets too big, my plan was to lay it on its side for the 2ish month period and drill holes in the sides of the pot and water it that way. I think maybe I should start a business picking up palms and protecting them in a warehouse. I'm so jealous of people who have access to that service. 

[kimgerlach1]

59 minutes ago, SeanK said:

Without seeing, I imagine that the leaves provide a lot of surface area to the wind. The root/pot combination is insufficient to support the above-ground mass. Also, Queen palm leaves form a deep parabola (y = -x^2) and can easily reach the ground until the trunk is at full calibre.

Thank you Sean

[kimgerlach1]

1 hour ago, SeanK said:

I will add that, unless you're moving to z9b or warmer you might consider  Lady Palm (Rhapis) or a Spindle Palm (Hyophorbe) as indoor candidates.

Hi Sean, I do have Lady Palms and Spindle Palms, I just love them! Believe it or not, I picked up 4 Spindles at Lowes on clearance for $11 that were about 4 feet tall. I know they grow slowly, so it may not have been the deal that I thought it was. But I repotted them and they have already grown a few inches in 3 months. And they are super healthy.

[MJSanDiego]

I'm a bit late on this thread looks like. Are we talking zone 9b or 7b?  A queen will not survive 7b even if you wrap it up. I hope you will be moving it inside during colder months. It will also need to be potted up to a larger pot. Queens are not really ideal in pots due to their desire to expand trunks and roots. It has gone into shock being moved outside. This palm ideally needs 6+ hours of direct sun daily. Ideal growing conditions is 60 to 85 degrees. But it will have little issues with 30 to 95 degrees as an outdoor palm if taken care of and established. Often they look super dark green grown in shade or indoors but they are weak and being in a pot too. But once it's acclimated to sun and wind, and you water it well and fertilize and a larger pot, you can get it as deep dark green as it was while grown indoors or in full shade, and strong once again. But it does take time, diligence and work.  You have to find that balance with water and fertilizer too. They can be a bit picky. But once they are happy in their spot they will reward you 

[JLM]

4 hours ago, kimgerlach1 said:

Hi Sean, I do have Lady Palms and Spindle Palms, I just love them! Believe it or not, I picked up 4 Spindles at Lowes on clearance for $11 that were about 4 feet tall. I know they grow slowly, so it may not have been the deal that I thought it was. But I repotted them and they have already grown a few inches in 3 months. And they are super healthy.

Definitely was the deal you thought it was. Spindles are slow growing, so you'll be able to enjoy those palms in pots for many many years! Bottle palms are the same way.

[kimgerlach1]

6 minutes ago, MJSanDiego said:

I'm a bit late on this thread looks like. Are we talking zone 9b or 7b?  A queen will not survive 7b even if you wrap it up. I hope you will be moving it inside during colder months. It will also need to be potted up to a larger pot. Queens are not really ideal in pots due to their desire to expand trunks and roots. It has gone into shock being moved outside. This palm ideally needs 6+ hours of direct sun daily. Ideal growing conditions is 60 to 85 degrees. But it will have little issues with 30 to 95 degrees as an outdoor palm if taken care of and established. Often they look super dark green grown in shade or indoors but they are weak and being in a pot too. But once it's acclimated to sun and wind, and you water it well and fertilize and a larger pot, you can get it as deep dark green as it was while grown indoors or in full shade, and strong once again. But it does take time, diligence and work.  You have to find that balance with water and fertilizer too. They can be a bit picky. But once they are happy in their spot they will reward you 

Unfortunately I live in 7b. I dream of living in 9. But I have every intention of bringing it indoors when it hits around 35, but I've seen people say that they leave them in pots outside down into the 20s before bringing them in. I'm a bit scared to do that, but I sure would like to. That way I truly could leave it outdoors most of the year. I do feed it with palm gain, water it properly, and in its spot it gets sun for hours and hours. And I agree, it totally went into shock when I bought it and brought it outside. It was much larger then so I didn't move it in and out, just out. Do you see the image of the pot? Do you think the size is too small? The palm was in a much smaller pot with no holes. I waited a month to repot and put it in the next size up plus a little. 

[MJSanDiego]

38 minutes ago, kimgerlach1 said:

Unfortunately I live in 7b. I dream of living in 9. But I have every intention of bringing it indoors when it hits around 35, but I've seen people say that they leave them in pots outside down into the 20s before bringing them in. I'm a bit scared to do that, but I sure would like to. That way I truly could leave it outdoors most of the year. I do feed it with palm gain, water it properly, and in its spot it gets sun for hours and hours. And I agree, it totally went into shock when I bought it and brought it outside. It was much larger then so I didn't move it in and out, just out. Do you see the image of the pot? Do you think the size is too small? The palm was in a much smaller pot with no holes. I waited a month to repot and put it in the next size up plus a little. 

It's a tough one. Based on the size of the trunk the pot is too small. Ideally it would be best to get one of those large plastic pots with a 3 ft diameter so it can flourish.  But it would be far too heavy to move and it would have to remain outside year round.  It could survive 20s in a pot but it is already struggling with the current move and will likely suffer more cosmetic damage and it may weaken the palm too. Perhaps keep it in that pot for now so you can move it inside this winter when necessary and repot it in March or April

[kimgerlach1]

Thank you so much for that advice! I have the perfect pot for it next March or April. I really appreciate it.

[SeanK]

5 hours ago, MJSanDiego said:

It's a tough one. Based on the size of the trunk the pot is too small. Ideally it would be best to get one of those large plastic pots with a 3 ft diameter so it can flourish.  But it would be far too heavy to move and it would have to remain outside year round.  It could survive 20s in a pot but it is already struggling with the current move and will likely suffer more cosmetic damage and it may weaken the palm too. Perhaps keep it in that pot for now so you can move it inside this winter when necessary and repot it in March or April

I think these thick beach buckets were only $10

[kimgerlach1]

20 minutes ago, SeanK said:

I think these thick beach buckets were only $10

These are awesome! Only $10. 

[SeanK]

Yeah. Meanwhile a 6" planter costs $20

[kimgerlach1]

Yeah, the variance is price is almost all things planty is just crazy. I will find something at lowes for $10 on clearance that is $100 on ebay and $140 on etsy. 

[Scott W]

21 hours ago, kimgerlach1 said:

. But I have every intention of bringing it indoors when it hits around 35, but I've seen people say that they leave them in pots outside down into the 20s before bringing them in. I'm a bit scared to do that, but I sure would like to. That way I truly could leave it outdoors most of the year.

Not sure how potted versus inground changes hardiness with palms to be honest, but I have queens both in pots and in the ground that all survived brief swings into the mid 20s here in NE Florida without any issues.  With that, if it were to be exposed to several days below freezing the outcome might be different.

[kimgerlach1]

That is very good to know Scott! That gives me the courage to do what my favorite youtube said, which is that he leaves them out in pots to 22 F, that means that I would very likely only have to have it indoors here in Buckingham VA for about 8 ish weeks. I'm sure that this would make it a much happier Queen. And especially as my only Queen, that makes me so happy!! 

I will continue to keep it in that corner where the two walls of my home connect and it gets loads of hours of sun. (I have been blessed at this new home to have bucket loads of sun to the point that I have the opposite problem to my last house in 7a. I have to find pockets of shade for my sun loving cattleya orchids and vandas or they positively roast. But I'll take this problem over the lack of sun any day.  I can always build shade, but I couldn't build sun at that last place. 

[MJSanDiego]

If it's 20 degrees and in a pot, the temperature of the soil in the pot would be much colder than the soil in the ground so it makes a huge difference. If you in 7b, that means your low could get to 5 to 10 degrees on occasion. Might be once every 5 years. So I guess that is why you bring it inside for those 8 weeks. But if you want it to not struggle, I would not subject it to anything below 35 degrees really. This palm is also not frost hardy especially repeatedly it will get sick and weak. And since your palm is already in shock I would baby it as best as possible