Please help with Kentia Palms

[SMP]

Hello, I am new to the forum trying to find some help with a couple of Kentia palms we planted in our front yard in the end of 2021 if I recall correctly.

I am located in Southern California.

Can anyone tell me what is going on with my palms? My husband thinks that they are dead or dying at this point.

Any feedback and assistance would be greatly appreciated!!

[Jim in Los Altos]

Nothing at all in those photos would indicate dead palms. They look robust and healthy considering they are in full sun. What you are seeing with the minor cosmetic flaws in the leaves is likely due to the recent heat wave. The palms are fine otherwise. 

[Jegs]

Not an expert by any means. If I had to guess, I would say: 
Graphiola false smut.

Just a cosmetic disease and doesn’t affect plant growth. 

[SMP]

2 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Nothing at all in those photos would indicate dead palms. They look robust and healthy considering they are in full sun. What you are seeing with the minor cosmetic flaws in the leaves is likely due to the recent heat wave. The palms are fine otherwise. 

What about the black spots on the trunk and fronds? On one of the trunks, it is covered in black spots that are now covering the trunk and turning it black

[MJSanDiego]

The black spots look like either pests such as spider mites or scale, or sooty mold, a fungal disease which is a symptom of a larger problem.  Could be caused by pruning or watering practices. Treat with fungicide. For scale or spider mites treat with horticultural oil, need oil, or insecticidal soap 

[Jim in Los Altos]

25 minutes ago, MJSanDiego said:

The black spots look like either pests such as spider mites or scale, or sooty mold, a fungal disease which is a symptom of a larger problem.  Could be caused by pruning or watering practices. Treat with fungicide. For scale or spider mites treat with horticultural oil, need oil, or insecticidal soap 

I have 12 big mature healthy Kentia palms in my landscape that I’ve cared for over twenty years. The coloring on the trunk and petioles of the poster’s palm is normal coloring. There may be some minor fungal spotting on the leaves but that’s not life threatening by any means. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

1 hour ago, SMP said:

What about the black spots on the trunk and fronds? On one of the trunks, it is covered in black spots that are now covering the trunk and turning it black

I’ve been growing Kentia palms for over twenty years. The trunk and petiole coloring on yours is normal on a sun grown Kentia. There may be some minor fungal spotting on the palm’s leaves that isn’t serious by any means. Howea forsteriana the size of yours will stress a bit in full sun during heat waves and will handle that much better as they become more mature. Do you feed your palms? My tallest Kentia is in the center of the photo. 
 

[Jim in Los Altos]

1 hour ago, SMP said:

What about the black spots on the trunk and fronds? On one of the trunks, it is covered in black spots that are now covering the trunk and turning it black

Normal coloring particularly in sun grown Howea. 

[Jonathan]

I agree with Jim, they look like nice healthy Howeas...I wouldn't be bombing them with chemicals! Give them plenty of H2O and a good feed. 

[Jonathan]

The trunk colour is normal, by the way. They tend to go greyish over time in the sun and stay greener in the shade, from my experience. 

[Tracy]

1 hour ago, Jonathan said:

The trunk colour is normal, by the way. They tend to go greyish over time in the sun and stay greener in the shade, from my experience. 

To add to this comment I have seen the trunk on one side do this when exposed to extensive sun while a side in full shade on the same trunk remains green longer.

This species handles more sun on the coast in Southern California than inland.  I have some growing in coastal Carlbad which are now canopy palms after 25+  years.  During Santa Ana's make sure to keep up the water.

I noticed after posting you are in Los Alamitos.  This will grow well for you there in full sun with water.

[Harry’s Palms]

I am inland from the beach about 20 miles in SoCal. Howea take full sun here once they are trunking . The only thing that will set them back a bit is extended hot weather with no evening cool down. Water is the only defense for this condition , just keep the soil moist . They are probably one of the easiest palms to grow , highly adaptable in the right zone. I agree that yours are going through a bit of stress related trauma but I would just keep an eye on them . We are entering into Fall so they should be fine . They are beautiful and very nice sized palms . Like @Jim in Los Altos I have been growing them for many years , even starting a few from seed some 30 years ago. I have even grown young ones in full sun with no casualties . The only Kentia I lost was my fault , due to a heat wave while I was out of town . I wasn’t able to soak the root ball in the evenings during the event . It was about 15-20 feet tall and sadly it died. I know it just didn’t get the water it needed when it was so hot here. Recently we went through a major heat wave , over 100f for days with not much cooling at night. My largest Kentia’s all lost two lower fronds almost over nigh but the rest of the palms look great . HarryThese are full sun , all day long and were near dead when I retrieved them from a construction site . That was many years ago . They now produce viable seed . It was about 80f when this picture was taken! Harry

[Harry’s Palms]

If you look at the above photo you can see the grey trunk that occurs when grown in an inland , full sun location. Harry

[Harry’s Palms]

These are shade grown so you can see that they really like the environment. The larger one is just starting to get direct sun but happily trucking along . The smaller one just started trunking a year ago. I really like these palms even though they are fairly common around here. Harry

[SMP]

8 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

I’ve been growing Kentia palms for over twenty years. The trunk and petiole coloring on yours is normal on a sun grown Kentia. There may be some minor fungal spotting on the palm’s leaves that isn’t serious by any means. Howea forsteriana the size of yours will stress a bit in full sun during heat waves and will handle that much better as they become more mature. Do you feed your palms? My tallest Kentia is in the center of the photo. 
 

Thank you so much...I really appreciate your feedback. Can you please recommend what I can use to feed and fertilize the kentias? 
Your palma are gorgeous!

[SMP]

42 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

I am inland from the beach about 20 miles in SoCal. Howea take full sun here once they are trunking . The only thing that will set them back a bit is extended hot weather with no evening cool down. Water is the only defense for this condition , just keep the soil moist . They are probably one of the easiest palms to grow , highly adaptable in the right zone. I agree that yours are going through a bit of stress related trauma but I would just keep an eye on them . We are entering into Fall so they should be fine . They are beautiful and very nice sized palms . Like @Jim in Los Altos I have been growing them for many years , even starting a few from seed some 30 years ago. I have even grown young ones in full sun with no casualties . The only Kentia I lost was my fault , due to a heat wave while I was out of town . I wasn’t able to soak the root ball in the evenings during the event . It was about 15-20 feet tall and sadly it died. I know it just didn’t get the water it needed when it was so hot here. Recently we went through a major heat wave , over 100f for days with not much cooling at night. My largest Kentia’s all lost two lower fronds almost over nigh but the rest of the palms look great . HarryThese are full sun , all day long and were near dead when I retrieved them from a construction site . That was many years ago . They now produce viable seed . It was about 80f when this picture was taken! Harry

Wow! This palm is beautiful!

[Jim in Los Altos]

1 hour ago, SMP said:

Thank you so much...I really appreciate your feedback. Can you please recommend what I can use to feed and fertilize the kentias? 
Your palma are gorgeous!

Thank you. PalmGain is the best I’ve used. 

[SMP]

32 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Thank you. PalmGain is the best I’ve used. 

Thank you so much!!

[Jegs]

PalmGain isn’t slow release, so you’ll have to fertilize more frequently than controlled release polymer coated fertilizer. 
 

8-2-12 is a good ratio for most palms.

[MJSanDiego]

I would have a second look at the trunk. I zoomed in and I don't see just discoloration of the trunk from sun or heat. I see clear bumps that resemble some kind of growth as well. OP said they were not there before. I believe there is a fungal component to this as well. Discoloration from sun would still be smooth. It's not just brown discoloration but brown and black bumps based on zoom in. You can compare the shade north side to the south side too. Maybe I am totally wrong. But its really worth a second look to be safe and sure with this beauty 

[Jim in Los Altos]

3 hours ago, Jegs said:

PalmGain isn’t slow release, so you’ll have to fertilize more frequently than controlled release polymer coated fertilizer. 
 

8-2-12 is a good ratio for most palms.

Blake, PalmGain is indeed slow release. I’ve used it for years. It’s easily the best performing fertilizer I’ve ever used. 
 

[Jegs]

4 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Blake, PalmGain is indeed slow release. I’ve used it for years. It’s easily the best performing fertilizer I’ve ever used. 
 

I should have specified; it does have some slow release qualities, but most of the nutrients aren’t polymer coated. 

I like/use palm gain for certain situations, but it’s more of a monthly fertilizer and not a true slow-release 3 month fertilizer. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

2 hours ago, MJSanDiego said:

I would have a second look at the trunk. I zoomed in and I don't see just discoloration of the trunk from sun or heat. I see clear bumps that resemble some kind of growth as well. OP said they were not there before. I believe there is a fungal component to this as well. Discoloration from sun would still be smooth. It's not just brown discoloration but brown and black bumps based on zoom in. You can compare the shade north side to the south side too. Maybe I am totally wrong. But its really worth a second look to be safe and sure with this beauty 

Just one of my Kentia trunks. The sporting is normal tomentum. 
 

[MJSanDiego]

1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Just one of my Kentia trunks. The sporting is normal tomentum. 
 

I see that but in the OPs pics if you zoom in it looks quite different. Black color and far more elevated distinct growths and bumps. All I am saying is it might be worth a second look because some of it could be fungal related, and not all sun related. I don't think it can be a definitive diagnosis based on the pics alone and the OP should investigate further to be sure

[SMP]

5 hours ago, MJSanDiego said:

I would have a second look at the trunk. I zoomed in and I don't see just discoloration of the trunk from sun or heat. I see clear bumps that resemble some kind of growth as well. OP said they were not there before. I believe there is a fungal component to this as well. Discoloration from sun would still be smooth. It's not just brown discoloration but brown and black bumps based on zoom in. You can compare the shade north side to the south side too. Maybe I am totally wrong. But its really worth a second look to be safe and sure with this beauty 

MJSanDiego, the trunk has it all over even where the sun doesn't hit it which concerns me. On the palm that is covered completely in black, it has smoothed out but it did start with the black bumps that you see in another picture. The pic with the black bumps is another palm that really gets no sun so really need advice on what to do or how to treat

 

 

[Harry’s Palms]

Possibly scale? If that is the case , it is treatable. They can be removed and there are  chemicals to treat affected areas. If you scrape them carefully with a piece of plastic putty tool , there will be a sticky substance where they were . A good nursery should have something for eradicating them. Harry

[Palmfarmer]

On 9/21/2024 at 12:33 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Normal coloring particularly in sun grown Howea. 

I think

 

On 9/21/2024 at 8:56 AM, Harry’s Palms said:

These are shade grown so you can see that they really like the environment. The larger one is just starting to get direct sun but happily trucking along . The smaller one just started trunking a year ago. I really like these palms even though they are fairly common around here. Harry

The one to the left is really a Kentia? It looks Silver/blue is it the camera? 

[MJSanDiego]

To really get to the root of the problem some more diagnosis is needed. I agree with @Harry’s Palms that if you rub off an area and feel its sticky, it could mean scale. As I said in an earlier, post you just want to be sure some of this is not scale, spidermites or sooty mold. If you can rule those out then you can breathe easy and know your palm is fine. Rub off an area and see what it looks and feels like. If it's scale, spidemites or sooty mold I think you will be able to tell, versus just sun discoloration 

[Palmfarmer]

On 9/21/2024 at 10:58 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Thank you. PalmGain is the best I’ve used. 

How does it compare to Palmtone?  

[Jim in Los Altos]

1 minute ago, Palmfarmer said:

How does it compare to Palmtone?  

I actually alternate between PalmGain and Palm Tone. Both are effective. 

[MJSanDiego]

This is what I use. With so many variables such as species, soil, locations all over the world etc, one can only wonder how anyone can know which is best. I don't think it really matters unless you have a specific nutrient deficiency then you have to resolve that first. But as a general slow release fertilizer to maintain otheriwse healthy palms, they all work fine 

[Palmfarmer]

19 hours ago, Harry’s Palms said:

Possibly scale? If that is the case , it is treatable. They can be removed and there are  chemicals to treat affected areas. If you scrape them carefully with a piece of plastic putty tool , there will be a sticky substance where they were . A good nursery should have something for eradicating them. Harry

How about some weak Peroxide solution and some light scrubbing? 

[Harry’s Palms]

10 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

I think

 

The one to the left is really a Kentia? It looks Silver/blue is it the camera? 

The one on the left is C. Decarii the one in the middle is a smaller Kentia and the one on the right is a larger Kentia. The Decarii is in the sun and the two Kentia are in the shade. Harry

[Palmfarmer]

54 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

The one on the left is C. Decarii the one in the middle is a smaller Kentia and the one on the right is a larger Kentia. The Decarii is in the sun and the two Kentia are in the shade. Harry

There was something familiar I should have recognized the Dypsis Decaryi since I have a silver one in my garden as well but maybe 1/4 of the size of yours. The trunk on it just confused me a little I have not noticed such a trunk on a Dypsis decaryi before. Anyways beautiful palms. 

[Palmfarmer]

7 hours ago, MJSanDiego said:

This is what I use. With so many variables such as species, soil, locations all over the world etc, one can only wonder how anyone can know which is best. I don't think it really matters unless you have a specific nutrient deficiency then you have to resolve that first. But as a general slow release fertilizer to maintain otheriwse healthy palms, they all work fine 

spot on I like to add some Organic palm tone or espoma outdoor & indoor blend and I add a bit extra organic matter on top Usually worm castings or regular compost. I Also apply some basic NPK triple 17 as well. This year I only added one feed of 17 since I am a bit Paranoid about getting too much nutrient buildup in the soil.  

[Silas_Sancona]

50 minutes ago, Palmfarmer said:

spot on I like to add some Organic palm tone or espoma outdoor & indoor blend and I add a bit extra organic matter on top Usually worm castings or regular compost. I Also apply some basic NPK triple 17 as well. This year I only added one feed of 17 since I am a bit Paranoid about getting too much nutrient buildup in the soil.  

As long as you're keeping the N and PH on the lower side, you shouldn't have to worry -as much at least- about overloading your soil w/ either of those nutrients.

For N, you could plant some sort of nitrogen fixing perennial under the palms, or chop, drop, and scatter leaf litter off trees like mesquite / other Legume - type trees that might grow there to provide a natural, slow release source of it.. 

Unless your soil is super deficient in it,  you shouldn't have to add much additional  Phosphorus since most soils contain good amounts of it naturally.  17-17-17 is a bit high on the PH, though a singular application once a year, ...or once every other year won't hurt.  ..You do want some  Phosphorus  in the soil.    I only apply Guano ( natural high PH source ) once a year to potted stuff. Haven't ever scattered any around things planted in the ground.

 

[Palmfarmer]

1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

As long as you're keeping the N and PH on the lower side, you shouldn't have to worry -as much at least- about overloading your soil w/ either of those nutrients.

For N, you could plant some sort of nitrogen fixing perennial under the palms, or chop, drop, and scatter leaf litter off trees like mesquite / other Legume - type trees that might grow there to provide a natural, slow release source of it.. 

Unless your soil is super deficient in it,  you shouldn't have to add much additional  Phosphorus since most soils contain good amounts of it naturally.  17-17-17 is a bit high on the PH, though a singular application once a year, ...or once every other year won't hurt.  ..You do want some  Phosphorus  in the soil.    I only apply Guano ( natural high PH source ) once a year to potted stuff. Haven't ever scattered any around things planted in the ground.

 

I think my soil was fairly nutritious from the get-go. It's Sandy clay. The top layer if more clay then I hit a lot more sandy clay further down. 

There is a three that drops leafs into my garden in large amounts each year which I think has helped loosen up the clay layer on on one side of the garden. I also dug in a bunch of "fresh organic matter as the first thing before I started to grow there.

I do chop and drop as well. Sometimes I will burn the weeds as well which should give a nice little potassium boost at the price of possible ph change if overdone. 

I used to have a layer of wood chips for a couple years all over the yard until it decomposed. will do a refill mainly for esthetics. 

My regime was defiantly overkill the first few years. I would use Palmtone along with 17 triple 3-4 times per year as well as topdressing with compost. Either regular or Worm compost. Then I would water them with a mix of Fish emulsion and Kelp as well as another algae mix high in Potassium. 

I will just get some fish meal and Seaweed meal this season and maybe some liquid fish and kelp along with lombricompost/wormcastings as a fall feed. I used way too much money on the fertilizers before. 

 

Yes my friend recommended sourcing soil from around mesquite trees when making a potting mix one time. 

 

Not sure if you remember but my Growing Plumerias in Pumice and Zeolite is going really well. I also used the same mix for a clump of mother in law tongue. the Plumerias are starting to flower now. Will send you pics once it happens. 

[Silas_Sancona]

13 hours ago, Palmfarmer said:

Yes my friend recommended sourcing soil from around mesquite trees when making a potting mix one time. 

 

Not sure if you remember but my Growing Plumerias in Pumice and Zeolite is going really well. I also used the same mix for a clump of mother in law tongue. the Plumerias are starting to flower now. Will send you pics once it happens. 

Was wondering whether or not you pulled the trigger on the " Plumeria in Pumice/ Zeolite experiment " Definitely post shots of how they're looking in the " N.H. Plumeria Season " thread in the " other than palms " section of the forum..
 

 Threw a couple of mine in 18"wide  by x 14" deep square plastic pots in the Pumice, Grit, and Turface MVP mix this summer to see what they do. One that has been in it's pot most of the summer is growing at a decent clip.  No flowers anticipated until next year though -i hope-, lol.

  Have about 4 other specific Plumeria cultivars  i'll be doing the same thing with, ..and some other rare trees i don't want to plant, that would appreciate a little more leg room that will be going into the same sized pots / same basic soil mix as well.


Your friend is onto something recommending incorporating some soil ..and/or  leaf duff collected from below Mesquites / other Legume Family trees into soil mixes, esp. for potted stuff..  

There's a reason that, if you took a walk out in the desert / other fairly dry area,  even in a really dry year,  you'll likely see an island of lush green growing below the canopy / canopies of larger Mesquites..  Shade provided aside,  Part of that being because Mesquites can draw groundwater to the surface during the warmer months, which helps keep whatever grows below them alive. 

Other benefit being the nitrogen rich leaf duff Mesquites drop each year,  that is then recycled back to the tree / any plants growing below as it decomposes / is drawn deeper into the soil by bacteria and soil dwelling insects..