Palms in Ireland

[PalmKeeper]

I was in Ireland for a work trip and took some time to visit the Botanical Gardens in Dublin. Plenty of Trachycarpus happily growing and even a Butia. The palm house from the 1860s is something else - it’s enormous and feels like you’re in a palm cathedral 😄 I was also in Cork and saw a couple Trachycarpus but didn’t manage to take any photos  

What other palms have you seen growing in Ireland?

[Scott W]

We were in Dublin July 2023 and saw some Phoenix palms in a few yards near Aviva Stadium.

[Chester B]

Down in the south of Ireland around Cork you see big Cordylines often, so its Zone 9.  I don't remember seeing any palms when I was over there for work, but based on the fact they can grow Cordylines that opens it up to the same palms you would see in the UK.  There are a couple of people from the UK that post exotic videos and they have the usual cold hardy palms.

[kinzyjr]

According to this map and one on PlantMaps, the very edges of the peninsulas in the south is a chilly zone 10:

Their oceanic climate should allow for Howea and some of the other "cool, but not cold" species to grow well.  Perhaps Rhopies?

[Alex High]

22 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

According to this map and one on PlantMaps, the very edges of the peninsulas in the south is a chilly zone 10:

Their oceanic climate should allow for Howea and some of the other "cool, but not cold" species to grow well.  Perhaps Rhopies?

Yep most of the British Isles, being islands with the Gulf Stream influence, are very mild. There are big Rhopies in Cornwall at least in the U.K., no doubt they're growable in many coastal parts of Ireland. I found these CIDP randomly while searching Street View in Dublin, and here are some other good sized CIDP another user posted on Palmtalk, so they seem to be pretty hardy in Dublin, and I know there are plenty more on the south coast of Ireland. This huge Juania at the Robinson Garden at Earlscliffe north of Dublin makes me think Rhopies should be pretty hardy there too, to say nothing of the milder south coast.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2957784,-6.3432562,3a,32.1y,163.97h,85.57t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sW2OLgF8SyNBduS9oNklVtQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D4.430000000000007%26panoid%3DW2OLgF8SyNBduS9oNklVtQ%26yaw%3D163.97!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

 

[UK_Palms]

Largest Phoenix Canariensis in Dublin is probably this one at 53N up there... 

 

It looked like this in 2009, so has gown a fair amount for 53N in Ireland with barely any sun or warmth (compared to southern England at least)...

 

CIDP are present around the entire coastal areas of England, Wales and Ireland now it seems. Even up at 55N in Yorkshire and Cumbria there are 15 footers now along the coast in places. All of them planted tiny and gradually stacking on size. Slower growth than London and the south coast of England, but still trudging along at a decent enough rate.

CIDP really don't need much summer heat at all, just mild winters. Certainly less heat and sun than previously thought, given that there are bigger specimens at 55N in Yorkshire and Cumbria than in coastal North/South Carolina at 32-33N. It really is the freezes (-6C / 20F) and lower that just knocks them back and stops them growing/progressing, as opposed to cool summers. However there are limits. I am yet to ever see a CIDP grow up in Scotland, even in the mildest of spots. They may survive, but just won't grow. Clearly not enough warmth in general and not enough sun.

Folks in Texas will tell you that CIDP will come back from -18C / 0F and 240 hours below freezing where they are, and they certainly can, but at higher latitudes with cooler summers you just need those mild winters and you'll get pristine looking CIDP's. No need for any proper heat or sun. Just an absence of severe freezes. Or one 'bad' freeze a decade (no lower than -8C / 17F). Those ones in the Carolina's that survive but never grow get smashed by -7C / 18F every winter and like -12C / 10F every few years. Then the next summer is spent replenishing a smallish/pathetic crown, but not actually growing upwards.

As for the Juania Australis at Earlscliffe garden in Dublin, well here is a photo in 2003 and another photo in 2023, showing 20 years of growth... probably the largest Juania in the British Isles and quite possibly the largest in Europe now? It has flowered as well there. Also these palms are no slouches once they start trunking. They appear to rocket away.

 

There is a lot of palm potential in southwest Ireland especially around Cork. Plenty of CIDP lurking there, including some big specimens. I have seen some huge ones on overhead aerial images on Google earth. Also look at what this guy is growing in Dublin as well...

 

He posted this photo recently which clearly shows another hybrid Syagrus (looking terrific) and a Washingtonia there in Dublin. Based off the size of the gate/doorway behind, those are fairly large specimens. Plenty of untapped potential in Ireland no doubt. The British Isles in general are exploding in potential now. Got tons of photos to post from southern England.

But yeah, this is in Dublin...

[gurugu]

Is this cidp still alive in Fota gardens, Cork, Ireland?

There's a thread here in IPS from 2008 which talks about it.

[Jonathan]

That Juania is a ripper...a bit surprising that they're so uncommon. Are they they prone to sudden death like Lepidorrachis or is the seed just hard to get...also like Lepidorrachis!? Are there any growing in Australia, NZ, N California??

Other Ceroxyloideae genera are mostly pretty amenable to cultivation, what makes this bugger so tricky?
 

[UK_Palms]

2 hours ago, gurugu said:

Is this cidp still alive in Fota gardens, Cork, Ireland?

There's a thread here in IPS from 2008 which talks about it.

Nah, that CIDP is a goner now. There used to be two of them which were planted in 1898, but the one on the right died first and the other one a few years after. I don’t know why they died either. The second one died after the notoriously cold 2010 winter, but even then it didn’t get that cold there. Maybe -7C but with snow in the crown.

Much smaller ones have taken -8C or -9C in parts of England with snow and came back fine. Possibly it was down to old age and decline, made worse by the freeze. Maybe if they were planted in 1898 but were already 30 year old specimens at the time, so they were actually 150 years old by 2010. Hard to say. I have never seen a ‘big’ CIDP die in England like those ones in Ireland.

 

There are other large specimens in Ireland. This one in Belgrove Gardens near Cork. Unless it has also died since. The photo is old from 2009 I think, before the 2010 freeze. It is weird that they would all survive both of the brutally cold 46/47 and the 62/63 winters, plus the January 1987 freeze, yet they died from the 2010 winter. That doesn’t really make sense, unless old age was a factor in regeneration ability by 2010…?

I think this one is probably still alive as the Google street view aerials are from recent years and it looks to be present with the shadow of the fronds visible as well. However it is on a private property and hard to get to. But a small marina is nearby. Sooner or later someone will probably stumble across it and post a photo online.

 

There are probably quite a few CIDP’s lurking in southwest Ireland as well. Here’s another in the SW of Ireland. Probably much bigger now too.

[Harry’s Palms]

I’ve never been to Europe. I would love to see Ireland and the botanical collections in some of the gardens. Mom was from Belfast and always enjoyed gardening here in Southern California . We grew veggies and she would give my brother and I a section each to grow something edible. Even though Mom could care less about palms she would enjoy various plants and gardens. I think it’s a Celtic thing , being from the North. Even when we lived in an apartment she would voluntarily take over the flower gardens . Harry

[Jack Lord]

I visited Ireland way back in 1986. As soon as we drove out of the airport towards Dublin, I saw a bunch of palm trees. I could not believe it as palms would be the last thing one would expect to see there. Our friends said it was most likely the influence of the Gulf Stream. In retrospect, they were mostly Trachys plus a fair number of Cordylines. No CIDPs. That would have been mind blowing. I would credit that visit with sparking my interest in cold hardy palms.

Great country btw.

[gurugu]

3 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Nah, that CIDP is a goner now. There used to be two of them which were planted in 1898, but the one on the right died first and the other one a few years after. I don’t know why they died either. The second one died after the notoriously cold 2010 winter, but even then it didn’t get that cold there. Maybe -7C but with snow in the crown.

Much smaller ones have taken -8C or -9C in parts of England with snow and came back fine. Possibly it was down to old age and decline, made worse by the freeze. Maybe if they were planted in 1898 but were already 30 year old specimens at the time, so they were actually 150 years old by 2010. Hard to say. I have never seen a ‘big’ CIDP die in England like those ones in Ireland.

 

There are other large specimens in Ireland. This one in Belgrove Gardens near Cork. Unless it has also died since. The photo is old from 2009 I think, before the 2010 freeze. It is weird that they would all survive both of the brutally cold 46/47 and the 62/63 winters, plus the January 1987 freeze, yet they died from the 2010 winter. That doesn’t really make sense, unless old age was a factor in regeneration ability by 2010…?

I think this one is probably still alive as the Google street view aerials are from recent years and it looks to be present with the shadow of the fronds visible as well. However it is on a private property and hard to get to. But a small marina is nearby. Sooner or later someone will probably stumble across it and post a photo online.

 

There are probably quite a few CIDP’s lurking in southwest Ireland as well. Here’s another in the SW of Ireland. Probably much bigger now too.

What a pity!

I had heard or read something about it, but wasn't sure.

Very good info on that matter.

As you say, it's odd why they perished at that age. It doesn't make sense. Here, there are hundreds of over 100 year old cidps, but they are dying from rinchophorus, not from cold. It's also true that we don't suffer so brutal cold spells as there.

For when, your last "expedition" in search for "odd" palmtrees in southern UK?

Coming soon that thread, maybe?

A pity no pic of that Bec. Alf. in Tremenheere or Tresco, I don't remember exactly. 

 

1 hour ago, Jack Lord said:

I visited Ireland way back in 1986. As soon as we drove out of the airport towards Dublin, I saw a bunch of palm trees. I could not believe it as palms would be the last thing one would expect to see there. Our friends said it was most likely the influence of the Gulf Stream. In retrospect, they were mostly Trachys plus a fair number of Cordylines. No CIDPs. That would have been mind blowing. I would credit that visit with sparking my interest in cold hardy palms.

Great country btw.

Same for me.

I went to England a number of times back in the 70s, and I only saw Trachys, not cidps or butias or braheas, not even in Brighton. Let alone no one in Norwich, Cambridge or Oxford.

Here, on the north coast of Spain, if they had planted, for instance, Ficus Macrocarpa or nitida or elástica some 100 years ago, nowadays they would be twice as big as those monsters growing in Málaga or Cadiz, Spain, since we have three times more rain than there.

[Alex High]

4 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Nah, that CIDP is a goner now. There used to be two of them which were planted in 1898, but the one on the right died first and the other one a few years after. I don’t know why they died either. The second one died after the notoriously cold 2010 winter, but even then it didn’t get that cold there. Maybe -7C but with snow in the crown.

Much smaller ones have taken -8C or -9C in parts of England with snow and came back fine. Possibly it was down to old age and decline, made worse by the freeze. Maybe if they were planted in 1898 but were already 30 year old specimens at the time, so they were actually 150 years old by 2010. Hard to say. I have never seen a ‘big’ CIDP die in England like those ones in Ireland.

 

There are other large specimens in Ireland. This one in Belgrove Gardens near Cork. Unless it has also died since. The photo is old from 2009 I think, before the 2010 freeze. It is weird that they would all survive both of the brutally cold 46/47 and the 62/63 winters, plus the January 1987 freeze, yet they died from the 2010 winter. That doesn’t really make sense, unless old age was a factor in regeneration ability by 2010…?

I think this one is probably still alive as the Google street view aerials are from recent years and it looks to be present with the shadow of the fronds visible as well. However it is on a private property and hard to get to. But a small marina is nearby. Sooner or later someone will probably stumble across it and post a photo online.

 

There are probably quite a few CIDP’s lurking in southwest Ireland as well. Here’s another in the SW of Ireland. Probably much bigger now too.

As always, thank you for your in depth posts, this is great info. I am amazed by what you all in the British Isles can grow so far north. I was in London over the summer for a couple days and got a couple videos of palms there for my YouTube channel, Palm Planet. It really blows me away what can be grown at such a latitude. Thx for showing us all the incredible palms in the U.K!

[UK_Palms]

5 hours ago, gurugu said:

What a pity!

I had heard or read something about it, but wasn't sure.

Very good info on that matter.

As you say, it's odd why they perished at that age. It doesn't make sense. Here, there are hundreds of over 100 year old cidps, but they are dying from rinchophorus, not from cold. It's also true that we don't suffer so brutal cold spells as there.

For when, your last "expedition" in search for "odd" palmtrees in southern UK?

Coming soon that thread, maybe?

A pity no pic of that Bec. Alf. in Tremenheere or Tresco, I don't remember exactly. 

 

Same for me.

I went to England a number of times back in the 70s, and I only saw Trachys, not cidps or butias or braheas, not even in Brighton. Let alone no one in Norwich, Cambridge or Oxford.

Here, on the north coast of Spain, if they had planted, for instance, Ficus Macrocarpa or nitida or elástica some 100 years ago, nowadays they would be twice as big as those monsters growing in Málaga or Cadiz, Spain, since we have three times more rain than there.

It is strange as to why those big CIDP died in Cork, given that they had survived far worse freezes in 46/47, 62/63 and 1987 but perhaps they were just very old and not able to recover properly from another bad winter, particularly if a cool/wet spring and summer followed? Maybe the crowns just rotted out. Cork is nowhere near as warm and sunny as southern England, so recovery capabilities would be lower. The December 2010 freeze doesn’t even look that bad however. Nearby Roches Point only had a minimum of -4.4C during that event on the coast, so probably -6C at worst for those CIDP a bit further inland. So maybe if wasn’t the temperatures. Perhaps it was more due to old age and some poor cool/wet spring and summers.

I was in Cornwall 2 weeks ago and visited Tremenheere and Tresco. I need to do a post about it, or update some threads. Unfortunately I could not locate the Beccariophoenix Alfredii at Tremenheere, but someone from the EPS found it the other day. So they definitely have a Beccariophoenix there.

I also didn’t see any at Tresco (there are two apparently) but I had such a rushed day trip due to screwing up the ferry and an abnormally low tide preventing me from crossing over to Tresco until 12:30pm. Then the only return crossing was at 2:30pm!!! Low tides due to the moon screwed me over big time. I had less than half the time in the gardens compared to my day trip in 2022.

The thing I was most surprised about on my recent visit was the number of Norfolk Island Pines (Araucaria Heterophylla) in Cornwall on the mainland. Even growing in people’s front gardens in St Ives and Falmouth. The one below is from Falmouth. I will do a big post covering this stuff soon. Also very surprised to see Brugmansia flowering so well in Cornwall in a few gardens! They get no winter protection there but they also rarely have a frost.

Also need to watch out for that Rinchophorus beetle over here as there is no way it will get cold enough to kill the beetle, never mind the larvae inside trunks. They survive -8C to -10C in southwest France. Isles of Scilly haven’t even had an air frost in almost 7 years now. And central London rarely goes below -3C.

 

St Ives front garden Brugmansia

[Foxpalms]

16 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

The thing I was most surprised about on my recent visit was the number of Norfolk Island Pines (Araucaria Heterophylla) in Cornwall on the mainland. Even growing in people’s front gardens in St Ives and Falmouth. The one below is from Falmouth. I will do a big post covering this stuff soon. Also very surprised to see Brugmansia flowering so well in Cornwall in a few gardens! They get no winter protection there but they also rarely have a frost

Brugmansia is something I have seen popup around here though it's still fairly uncommon. Norfolk island pines too are still not that common though considering how much space they take up and how small many gardens are that's not a surprise.  This year the tropical hibiscus, birds of paradise,  new guinea impatiens, lantana, cosmos and osteospermums seem to getting more common. I can never understand though why houses that cost 40 million pounds in Mayfair with the small gardens they have, many are just empty.  Osteospermums might work on one of those islands in south west Ireland. 

[UK_Palms]

19 hours ago, Alex High said:

As always, thank you for your in depth posts, this is great info. I am amazed by what you all in the British Isles can grow so far north. I was in London over the summer for a couple days and got a couple videos of palms there for my YouTube channel, Palm Planet. It really blows me away what can be grown at such a latitude. Thx for showing us all the incredible palms in the U.K!

I have travelled all around the south coast of England hunting and photographing palms. While southwest Cornwall and parts of Devon may have the largest and oldest palms, as well as the ability to grow more tender stuff like crownshafts, I can honestly say that the absolute best looking palms in the British Isles are in London. The extra summer heat in the city and the lack of wind from being inland away from the coast, and from tall buildings blocking out the wind, keeps the fronds looking pristine. London definitely has the best looking CIDP and Washingtonia, even if they aren’t the biggest.

A few updates from recent months. Some of them are my own photos from a quick business trip into south London… @gurugu

 

These aren’t anywhere near the biggest ones in London. They are just the ones that I have photo updates on. You won’t see better CIDP and Washingtonia crowns than in London.

[gurugu]

On 10/2/2024 at 10:20 PM, UK_Palms said:

It is strange as to why those big CIDP died in Cork, given that they had survived far worse freezes in 46/47, 62/63 and 1987 but perhaps they were just very old and not able to recover properly from another bad winter, particularly if a cool/wet spring and summer followed? Maybe the crowns just rotted out. Cork is nowhere near as warm and sunny as southern England, so recovery capabilities would be lower. The December 2010 freeze doesn’t even look that bad however. Nearby Roches Point only had a minimum of -4.4C during that event on the coast, so probably -6C at worst for those CIDP a bit further inland. So maybe if wasn’t the temperatures. Perhaps it was more due to old age and some poor cool/wet spring and summers.

I was in Cornwall 2 weeks ago and visited Tremenheere and Tresco. I need to do a post about it, or update some threads. Unfortunately I could not locate the Beccariophoenix Alfredii at Tremenheere, but someone from the EPS found it the other day. So they definitely have a Beccariophoenix there.

I also didn’t see any at Tresco (there are two apparently) but I had such a rushed day trip due to screwing up the ferry and an abnormally low tide preventing me from crossing over to Tresco until 12:30pm. Then the only return crossing was at 2:30pm!!! Low tides due to the moon screwed me over big time. I had less than half the time in the gardens compared to my day trip in 2022.

The thing I was most surprised about on my recent visit was the number of Norfolk Island Pines (Araucaria Heterophylla) in Cornwall on the mainland. Even growing in people’s front gardens in St Ives and Falmouth. The one below is from Falmouth. I will do a big post covering this stuff soon. Also very surprised to see Brugmansia flowering so well in Cornwall in a few gardens! They get no winter protection there but they also rarely have a frost.

Also need to watch out for that Rinchophorus beetle over here as there is no way it will get cold enough to kill the beetle, never mind the larvae inside trunks. They survive -8C to -10C in southwest France. Isles of Scilly haven’t even had an air frost in almost 7 years now. And central London rarely goes below -3C.

 

St Ives front garden Brugmansia

Gosh! You've got more pics and files on palmtrees in the UK than MI5, CIA and KGB all together. 😃

That Brugmansia sanguínea is a beauty. That one is planted in a perfect spot, sheltered by the walls from evaporation at the roots. They need a lot of water and humidity, if not, they suffer a lot.

I lost mine when transplanting it to the new garden, but I was sent seeds and now I have a bunch of plants in pots. I planted one just the other day.

Those big palms growing happily in London and the south coast are a beauty. Let's hope more are planted in the future.

I've seen odd behavior with rinchophorus for the last couple of years. I'll start a new thread soon.

If you can grow Beccariophoenix A. in Cornwall, Tresco and other places in perfect spots, that means you can grow a lot of truly subtropical palms. And the question is: how come there are still well learned on palms and plants people in the UK that keep on saying that it is impossible? Your pics and info , prove them wrong, don't they?

On 10/2/2024 at 10:50 PM, Foxpalms said:

Brugmansia is something I have seen popup around here though it's still fairly uncommon. Norfolk island pines too are still not that common though considering how much space they take up and how small many gardens are that's not a surprise.  This year the tropical hibiscus, birds of paradise,  new guinea impatiens, lantana, cosmos and osteospermums seem to getting more common. I can never understand though why houses that cost 40 million pounds in Mayfair with the small gardens they have, many are just empty.  Osteospermums might work on one of those islands in south west Ireland. 

 

Brugmansias have been planted heavily here for the last 30 years, but mainly white ones (doubles too) and rose/white ones. Only lately yellow ones are becoming common. Those planted in sheltered places keep their leaves and flowers all through the winter.

Brug. Sanguíneas is by far harder than Suaveolens, so you shouldn't have much trouble there.

Hibiscus are more tender to cold, but lantanas, strelitzias and dymorphotecas (osteospermum) are much easier, at least, here. 

Dymorphotecas and tropaeolum majus have become a plague here. They pop up everywhere and stay in bloom even in mild winters.

As for Araucanía heterophylla, they started being planted a long time ago, some even 100 years ago. I've also seen angustifolia, piramidalis and bidwilli here. Araucana is very common too, even in very cold places 8B, 9A and 9B zones.

 

[UK_Palms]

Regarding Ireland, that has to be the furthest Parajubaea from the equator at 53N in Dublin. A real decent size as well.

Also the furthest Butyagrus or Mule (Butia x Syagrus) from the equator as well. The photos are a year old too now, so it will be bigger! That wall is 6-7 feet high for context. If they are able to grow that well in Dublin at 53N it shows what is possible in Cornwall, or the Isle of Wight at 50N.

They barely get any summer heat in Dublin, but it just shows what is possible with mild winters. Mild winters are more important than anything else. Summer warmth is somewhat irrelevant if palms can’t survive the winters. I think Dublin actually met the criteria for Csb / warm-summer Med conditions pretty much this summer just gone. Dry summer but also mild/cool.

Here is the true Queen (Syagrus Romanzoffiana) at Lamorran Gardens in St Mawes, Cornwall. It has been in the ground 2-3 years. The trunk is just starting to fatten up now that it has got roots down. New spears are emerging. I think this will look amazing in the coming years. They need to do something about the bamboo however which has collapsed onto the crown of the Syagrus and ruins the photo!

 

A couple of palms that need to be closely watched in the coming years. Massive potential. I still think Syagrus Romanzoffiana would do best in central London where it would benefit the most from summer heat. Plus the mild sheltered winters. @gurugu

[hbernstein]

3 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

A couple of palms that need to be closely watched in the coming years. Massive potential. I still think Syagrus Romanzoffiana would do best in central London where it would benefit the most from summer heat. Plus the mild sheltered winters.

Only speaking as a South Floridian, oh dear god, no! The ugliest, most neglected palm species on the peninsula.

[gurugu]

3 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Regarding Ireland, that has to be the furthest Parajubaea from the equator at 53N in Dublin. A real decent size as well.

Also the furthest Butyagrus or Mule (Butia x Syagrus) from the equator as well. The photos are a year old too now, so it will be bigger! That wall is 6-7 feet high for context. If they are able to grow that well in Dublin at 53N it shows what is possible in Cornwall, or the Isle of Wight at 50N.

They barely get any summer heat in Dublin, but it just shows what is possible with mild winters. Mild winters are more important than anything else. Summer warmth is somewhat irrelevant if palms can’t survive the winters. I think Dublin actually met the criteria for Csb / warm-summer Med conditions pretty much this summer just gone. Dry summer but also mild/cool.

Here is the true Queen (Syagrus Romanzoffiana) at Lamorran Gardens in St Mawes, Cornwall. It has been in the ground 2-3 years. The trunk is just starting to fatten up now that it has got roots down. New spears are emerging. I think this will look amazing in the coming years. They need to do something about the bamboo however which has collapsed onto the crown of the Syagrus and ruins the photo!

 

A couple of palms that need to be closely watched in the coming years. Massive potential. I still think Syagrus Romanzoffiana would do best in central London where it would benefit the most from summer heat. Plus the mild sheltered winters. @gurugu

I can't believe my eyes!

Do you know how long they have been planted in the ground? And if they were planted already big?

My parajubaeas are rather slow so far. I have all 4 species of them except Sunkha, which has been a failure after 3 attempts. Coccoides is the only one which has a decent trunk: 1 metre or so.

Butyagrus is only now speeding up growth. But nothing to come home about.

As for the Syagrus, the same happened to the first one I planted 27 years ago. They were about 2 mts tall at first, and they took 3/4 years to start gaining height. Just the time when the hedge of cypress on the north face had reached a decent height and would trap more heat.

Right now it is setting seeds.

That's why it is very important to plant them already tall. I've planted a number of still seedlings of them in my new plot, and after 3 years, they haven't grown much.

I agree with you that it is not so important summer heat as mild winters. To grow subtropicals it's no use to enjoy 10 hot months a year, but 2 artic ones in winter. 2/3 really cold spells a year as a rule , is lethal and doesn't allow you to grow almost anything subtropical.

In Western Europe, we are blessed with the Gulf Stream. The farther the north, the more noticeable it becomes. Up on Norway coasts, the anomaly mean temperature year round, reaches up to 12⁰C. 

[Foxpalms]

4 hours ago, hbernstein said:

Only speaking as a South Floridian, oh dear god, no! The ugliest, most neglected palm species on the peninsula.

Queen palms look better in the Mediterranean climates in my opinion though and summer heat here is typically dry. So they might end up looking more like those than the Florida specimen's.

[Chester B]

There is a big Parajubaea in Lowestoft too. Although I believe that is south of Dublin. It does get winter protection. 

[ASHCVS]

On 10/2/2024 at 8:59 AM, Alex High said:

I saw this majestic palm last year and featured it in the September 2023 IPS newsletter. It’s really incredible. Thank you for posting this video!

[gurugu]

On 10/7/2024 at 1:56 PM, UK_Palms said:

Regarding Ireland, that has to be the furthest Parajubaea from the equator at 53N in Dublin. A real decent size as well.

Also the furthest Butyagrus or Mule (Butia x Syagrus) from the equator as well. The photos are a year old too now, so it will be bigger! That wall is 6-7 feet high for context. If they are able to grow that well in Dublin at 53N it shows what is possible in Cornwall, or the Isle of Wight at 50N.

They barely get any summer heat in Dublin, but it just shows what is possible with mild winters. Mild winters are more important than anything else. Summer warmth is somewhat irrelevant if palms can’t survive the winters. I think Dublin actually met the criteria for Csb / warm-summer Med conditions pretty much this summer just gone. Dry summer but also mild/cool.

Here is the true Queen (Syagrus Romanzoffiana) at Lamorran Gardens in St Mawes, Cornwall. It has been in the ground 2-3 years. The trunk is just starting to fatten up now that it has got roots down. New spears are emerging. I think this will look amazing in the coming years. They need to do something about the bamboo however which has collapsed onto the crown of the Syagrus and ruins the photo!

 

A couple of palms that need to be closely watched in the coming years. Massive potential. I still think Syagrus Romanzoffiana would do best in central London where it would benefit the most from summer heat. Plus the mild sheltered winters. @gurugu

This is the Syagrus setting seeds. There's another spathe on the left and it will bloom soon.

The Archontophoenix are also with mature seeds and blooming at the same time.

The first one is a real Cunninghamiana, and the second one is a hybrid with Alexandra (I think). Both are seeding twice this year. I think it's because it is being a very rainy year.

Last year's seed batch sprouted easily crammed in a big paint cane.

 

[gurugu]

19 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

Queen palms look better in the Mediterranean climates in my opinion though and summer heat here is typically dry. So they might end up looking more like those than the Florida specimen's.

I don't know if Syagrus look better in Mediterranean climates.  These are mine this rainy year. The one on the right is 7/8 mts tall and is starting to set seeds. The other one on the left is a little smaller, and no seeds yet.

I have not pruned, cleaned them because they are too tall.

They grow in pure beachy sandy soil, so they need a lot of water to look good, that's why they are better this year.

My climate is warm temperate, very rainy all year long. The driest month, July, averages 56 litres of rain. That's why I think they look healthier in rainy climates.