Queen needs a visit to ER

[Christopher Dillman]

Where it's here at PalmTalk.  And always appreciated. 

What emergency prescription will return this palm back to health come the spring? It's located San Diego (Zone 10b).

It was fine last spring, took my eye of the ball, now it's this.

It's next to a larger queen that's doing fine. There's a drip just on upper side of trunk (2 times a day, 20 min ea).

Frizzled top, a shoot trying to come through but brown and frizzled. 

 

Any and all ER recipes welcomed! 🤒

[Las Palmas Norte]

 

Queen needs a visit to ER

 

I'd recommend the ER visit the palm.😁

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, Christopher Dillman said:

Where it's here at PalmTalk.  And always appreciated. 

What emergency prescription will return this palm back to health come the spring? It's located San Diego (Zone 10b).

It was fine last spring, took my eye of the ball, now it's this.

It's next to a larger queen that's doing fine. There's a drip just on upper side of trunk (2 times a day, 20 min ea).

Frizzled top, a shoot trying to come through but brown and frizzled. 

 

Any and all ER recipes welcomed! 🤒

What is your fertilizer routine?  It's needing some nutrients including manganese.  I'm not sure how it can recover from that pencil-pointing - it will likely continue to grow but look odd.

 

https://blogs.ifas.ufl.edu/monroeco/2008/09/23/pencil-pointing-palms/

[Christopher Dillman]

17 minutes ago, Fusca said:

What is your fertilizer routine? 

None for this palm sadly. I do juggle btwn Palm Plus and Palm Gain for most of my larger queen palms.

This one in particular has always been very petite-sized. Usually some green growth from fronds (not as much as my other palms), but this year it's struggling.

Here's one prescription I'm thinking - Sanity check plz -

+ Add emitters all around base of palm
+ Ring of Palm/Cactus mix to penetrate soil
+ Palm Plus feeding
+ Double shot of manganese? {second part of question is what brand should I use?}
+ Cut off the existing fronds? {to trigger new growth?}

All I can think of atm.

[Merlyn]

1 hour ago, Christopher Dillman said:

+ Add emitters all around base of palm - yes, I'd do some hand watering after the fertilizer below.
+ Ring of Palm/Cactus mix to penetrate soil - no opinion here.
+ Palm Plus feeding - yes.
+ Double shot of manganese? - a handful of granular manganese sulfate (I use rite-green) is good.
+ Cut off the existing fronds? {to trigger new growth?} - Nope, only do this if you are trying to kill it.

See my comments above in red.  Is the new spear brown and distorted?  It might have a crown infection, you can test by squirting some hydrogen peroxide in there.  If it bubbles up you have a crown infection.  If no bubbling, no fungus!

[Christopher Dillman]

24 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

+ Ring of Palm/Cactus mix to penetrate soil - no opinion here.
 

See my comments above in red.  Is the new spear brown and distorted?  It might have a crown infection, you can test by squirting some hydrogen peroxide in there.  If it bubbles up you have a crown infection.  If no bubbling, no fungus!

Thank you for this!

The Palm/Cactus mix is normally in the planting soil. Sometimes I use this as a soil conditioner topping. Sometimes I use 'Happy Frog' soil conditioner which contains bat guano. Yet always open to new soil conditioners to try.

[Jim in Los Altos]

2 hours ago, Christopher Dillman said:

None for this palm sadly. I do juggle btwn Palm Plus and Palm Gain for most of my larger queen palms.

This one in particular has always been very petite-sized. Usually some green growth from fronds (not as much as my other palms), but this year it's struggling.

Here's one prescription I'm thinking - Sanity check plz -

+ Add emitters all around base of palm
+ Ring of Palm/Cactus mix to penetrate soil
+ Palm Plus feeding
+ Double shot of manganese? {second part of question is what brand should I use?}
+ Cut off the existing fronds? {to trigger new growth?}

All I can think of atm.

Cutting off its only source of life sustaining carbohydrate producing green leaves will for sure put an end to this palm’s life. As a rule, green fronds should not be pruned off a palm. Also, Queen palm roots spread many yards horizontally away from their trunks so watering and feeding well away as well as within the palm’s dripping is beneficial. 

[Merlyn]

3 hours ago, Christopher Dillman said:

Thank you for this!

The Palm/Cactus mix is normally in the planting soil. Sometimes I use this as a soil conditioner topping. Sometimes I use 'Happy Frog' soil conditioner which contains bat guano. Yet always open to new soil conditioners to try.

  I'd think a mulch (or similar topping) would be a good idea for several reasons.  As it degrades it provides nutrients (like boron) to the palm, it helps retain moisture for the upper surface roots, and lowers surface soil temps.  As I wrote this it occurred to me it might be boron deficient too, with no mulch cover and no added boron in fertilizer.  That can cause manganese-looking problems too:

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/EP264

I don't see any hooked leaf or corrugated leaf, which is usually an early sign.  So most likely it's manganese.  If your soil and/or water are basic, you can see below how absorption is a problem:

 

[Tracy]

3 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Cutting off its only source of life sustaining carbohydrate producing green leaves will for sure put an end to this palm’s life. As a rule, green fronds should not be pruned off a palm. Also, Queen palm roots spread many yards horizontally away from their trunks so watering and feeding well away as well as within the palm’s dripping is beneficial. 

Given the pencil look, cutting off the leaves to put the palm out of its misery sounds like a viable option.  Christopher sounds like you have multiple Queens doing fine so perhaps eliminating this sickly specimen is actually an opportunity to diversity the species in your garden.  There is an abundance of species you can grow in Carlsbad. 

If you nurse this palm back to health, it will retain an unattractive pinch in its trunk here.  I vote to euthanize it and open some new planting real estate. 

[Billy]

4 minutes ago, Tracy said:

Christopher sounds like you have multiple Queens doing fine so perhaps eliminating this sickly specimen is actually an opportunity to diversity the species in your garden.  There is an abundance of species you can grow in Carlsbad.  I vote to euthanize it and open some new planting real estate. 

This ^^^ 

As hard as it is (emotionally and physically) to remove palms that we love so much, I've learned to look at it as an opportunity to open up a new space in the yard to grow something new and exciting. I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide to do. 

 

[Harry’s Palms]

I had a row of Queen palms and a couple of King palms. I originally planted them for a fast growing canopy.  One Queen just never seemed to do well so I cut it down and left part of the trunk . It sat for a few years as I was trying to figure out what to do with it.  I would set potted plants on it , thought about carving it into some sort of Tiki but was afraid if I did the carving poorly it would bring bad Ju Ju. Then it dawned on me , hollow out the top section and put a bit of soil and moss , then plant a Bromeliad! Good drainage and the plant loves it! Harry

[Billy]

14 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

thought about carving it into some sort of Tiki but was afraid if I did the carving poorly it would bring bad Ju Ju. Then it dawned on me , hollow out the top section and put a bit of soil and moss , then plant a Bromeliad! Good drainage and the plant loves it! Harry

Harry, ironically I originally had the same hopes of carving a tiki into a queen trunk that I cut down to about the same size as yours...I eventually decided against it and did the same exact thing as you. The bromeliad has since grown a ton and is now throwing out a big pup. I'll see if I can find a photo to share. 

[Billy]

@Harry’s Palms Not a recent photo, but there she is! My friends think it’s hokey but I thought it was kind of creative. Oh well. What the heck…haha! 

[Harry’s Palms]

That is awesome ! Great minds think alike eh? Maybe start a thread on what can or has been done with remnant palm trunks! Harry

[Jim in Los Altos]

4 hours ago, Tracy said:

Given the pencil look, cutting off the leaves to put the palm out of its misery sounds like a viable option.  Christopher sounds like you have multiple Queens doing fine so perhaps eliminating this sickly specimen is actually an opportunity to diversity the species in your garden.  There is an abundance of species you can grow in Carlsbad. 

If you nurse this palm back to health, it will retain an unattractive pinch in its trunk here.  I vote to euthanize it and open some new planting real estate. 

True, if the palm were mine, it would have been cut down yesterday. I was just pointing out how bad it is to remove green fronds especially on a palm already holding few leaves on any species. 

[Merlyn]

8 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

True, if the palm were mine, it would have been cut down yesterday. I was just pointing out how bad it is to remove green fronds especially on a palm already holding few leaves on any species. 

Same here.  I have to worry about hurricanes here, so I would definitely chop it down and replace it with something else.  If high winds are a concern there I'd definitely take it out now.  20 feet of trunk hanging above a weak spot in a few years is a big risk.

[SeanK]

Two palms side by side. Same climate, same soil; rootzones entwined.

To me that leans away from any sun, water, fertilizer issues. Leaves me thinking something infectious. Keep an eye on the healthy one. If it's the soil, both are at risk. 

I would quickly remove the sick palm in case there's an insect vector.

[Christopher Dillman]

On 10/1/2024 at 9:43 PM, Jim in Los Altos said:

True, if the palm were mine, it would have been cut down yesterday. 

Well, then.. I'll take requests.

 

It is the runt of the litter for sure. Always has been. The other queens could use a touch up with nutrients.

Instincts tell me to drop another giant bird of paradise in its place. But I want something with more 'wow' factor that gets attention. 

This is south facing, so full sun from morning to eve. Zone 10b {I think..} in Encinitas, CA. 

GO. ⏰

[Jim in Los Altos]

1 hour ago, Christopher Dillman said:

Well, then.. I'll take requests.

 

It is the runt of the litter for sure. Always has been. The other queens could use a touch up with nutrients.

Instincts tell me to drop another giant bird of paradise in its place. But I want something with more 'wow' factor that gets attention. 

This is south facing, so full sun from morning to eve. Zone 10b {I think..} in Encinitas, CA. 

GO. ⏰

If it were me, I’d add a standout palm with blue leaves like a Bismarkia but further down the hill to give it the room it needs. In your climate, there are hundreds of exotic palm species that would do well for you. 

[Tracy]

On 10/3/2024 at 10:22 AM, Christopher Dillman said:

Well, then.. I'll take requests.

 

It is the runt of the litter for sure. Always has been. The other queens could use a touch up with nutrients.

Instincts tell me to drop another giant bird of paradise in its place. But I want something with more 'wow' factor that gets attention. 

This is south facing, so full sun from morning to eve. Zone 10b {I think..} in Encinitas, CA. 

GO. ⏰

My apologies on the location confusion, but either Carlsbad or here in Encinitas you have plenty of options.  

I would plant your new palm a little further away from your existing Queen so that it doesn't have to compete as much for root space.

Selection will partly depend on your goal.  If you want more of a screen, use either a clumping Chrysalidocarpus (rufescens, onilahensis, pembanus or cabadae).  A Bismarckia nobilis or Pritchardia will be beautiful there as well, but be prepared for palm weevils to potentially attack here.

If you want solitary and just a different appearance Chrysalidocarpus ambositrae or saintelucei  would be my selections from that  genus.  A Chambeyronia hookeri or Clinostigma savoryanum are also attractive solutions with very different structure and leaves than your Queens.

Consider using some antifungal to treat the soil after you remove the queen (Daconil as a soil drench used per label for example).  This is just to be safe and avoid passing on a potential threat to your new palm.

[Christopher Dillman]

On 10/4/2024 at 12:29 PM, Tracy said:

..A Chambeyronia hookeri or Clinostigma savoryanum are also attractive solutions with very different structure and leaves than your Queens..

The flamethrower palm. Now that gets my attention.  What a wonderful suggestion.

Bet that would be a rare one in San Diego - might have to be a Rancho Soledad search.

Any tips on watering schedule, planting mix? Or about the same planting-strategy for a Queen?

[Billy]

51 minutes ago, Christopher Dillman said:

The flamethrower palm. Now that gets my attention.  What a wonderful suggestion.

Bet that would be a rare one in San Diego - might have to be a Rancho Soledad search.

Any tips on watering schedule, planting mix? Or about the same planting-strategy for a Queen?

Joe at Discovery Island Palms in San Marcos should have both macrocarpa and hookeri available. Joe is a great guy with lots of inventory and fair prices. Of the two, I'd suggest hookeri as they seem to be better growers in our area. 

[Christopher Dillman]

1 hour ago, Billy said:

Joe at Discovery Island Palms in San Marcos should have both macrocarpa and hookeri available...

Awesome to know, thank you! I've purchased from Joe before w a few triples in pots that are still holding up well.

[iDesign]

On 10/3/2024 at 10:22 AM, Christopher Dillman said:

Well, then.. I'll take requests.

I personally like @Jim in Los Altos's suggestion of adding a beautiful blue-leaf palm as a centerpiece, lower down. Bismarckia? Latania? Brahea clara? Other?

If you can do "Bloodleaf" in your location that would also pickup the pink coloring from the bougainvillea. @Billeb has a Bismarckia/Bloodleaf combination going in his yard and it looks amazing. Either way, adding a blue leaf palm would add visual variety to that area.

Here's a quick & Dirty mockup of Dale's Bismarckia/Bloodleaf combination Photoshopped (roughly) into your location.

I also added another BOP where the Queen palm was, but mostly for screening (to downplay the house a bit). I personally thing BOP are great for screening, but ideally with more interesting things in front of them.

TONS of other possibilities would work equally well... was just having some fun. 🙃

[Christopher Dillman]

1 hour ago, iDesign said:

 

TONS of other possibilities would work equally well... was just having some fun. 🙃

Well how cool is that? You have more patience with Ps than I do. 😆

I think adding some red and blue is a great call. 

How does Bloodleaf handle in full sun? This is a south-facing slope, and my philos are getting hid hard unfortunately.

[iDesign]

59 minutes ago, Christopher Dillman said:

Well how cool is that? You have more patience with Ps than I do. 😆

An embarrassingly bad Photoshop job actually (think I spent 10min max)! But even sloppy jobs work great for communicating ideas. 

59 minutes ago, Christopher Dillman said:

How does Bloodleaf handle in full sun? This is a south-facing slope, and my philos are getting hid hard unfortunately.

My bloodleaf is in shade, so I'll let someone else answer that one. That's the downside of Photoshop... I can paste in anything I want, whether or not it will grow there. So take EVERYTHING I mock up with a huge grain of salt. 🧂

I'm mostly endorsing the idea of putting a blue leaf and/or fan palm in the mix for variety... and putting whatever you add a bit away from the Queens (possibly centered between them?).

As for the color, Aechmea blanchetiana is a sure-bet for adding color to hot spots.

Because I can do whatever I want with Photoshop, I hereby bequeath you a mature Brahea clara with Aechmea blanchetiana below, and a bit more pink bougainvillea on the right. Hopefully gives you some ideas at least. 🤔 

[SeanK]

I like the idea of framing the blue Brahea with the large green Queens as a backdrop. The contrast is very attractive.

Thanks @iDesign, for the instant gratification.

[Jim in Los Altos]

7 hours ago, Christopher Dillman said:

Well how cool is that? You have more patience with Ps than I do. 😆

I think adding some red and blue is a great call. 

How does Bloodleaf handle in full sun? This is a south-facing slope, and my philos are getting hid hard unfortunately.

Stacy (iDesign) has a great idea. Bloodleaf (Iresine herbstii) will tolerate sun if watered almost daily in the summer but with some bleaching of the leaves. Top picture shows it in full sun alongside the hot asphalt street. I had just pruned it back off the curb so it’s not looking great in this photo. Second photo shows some growing on my north facing wall in full shade. Third photo shows more growing in full shade. 

 

 

 

[Tracy]

9 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Stacy (iDesign) has a great idea. Bloodleaf (Iresine herbstii) will tolerate sun if watered almost daily in the summer but with some bleaching of the leaves. Top picture shows it in full sun alongside the hot asphalt street. I had just pruned it back off the curb so it’s not looking great in this photo. Second photo shows some growing on my north facing wall in full shade. Third photo shows more growing in full shade. 

 

 

 

Jim or Stacy, you may recognize this red leaf plant which is quite similar to Iresine herbestii, but has larger leaves.  I don't recall what it is.  The variegation is quite variable from plant to plant.  I got this at La Costa Anderson nursery.  The one that drew my attention for years is growing in full south facing exposure outside the fence of Horace Anderson's house immediately east of the nursery on La Costa Avenue.   Being outside the fence it gets little attention and still thrives.  It very well could be closely related to Iresine herbestii.

The Horace Anderson plant is a large shrub about 6' tall at times.  Maybe Billie can snap a photo since it is right around the corner from his home.  Alternatively,  Christopher you can drive by and see it.  The nursery often has small 1 and 2 gallons of these in stock too.  Mine was a 1 gallon last Spring. 

Back to palms, I love my Bismarckia but hesitate encouraging people to plant it here because they are #2 in diet preference behind CIDP for our newly arrived South American palm weevil. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

5 hours ago, Tracy said:

Jim or Stacy, you may recognize this red leaf plant which is quite similar to Iresine herbestii, but has larger leaves.  I don't recall what it is.  The variegation is quite variable from plant to plant.  I got this at La Costa Anderson nursery.  The one that drew my attention for years is growing in full south facing exposure outside the fence of Horace Anderson's house immediately east of the nursery on La Costa Avenue.   Being outside the fence it gets little attention and still thrives.  It very well could be closely related to Iresine herbestii.

The Horace Anderson plant is a large shrub about 6' tall at times.  Maybe Billie can snap a photo since it is right around the corner from his home.  Alternatively,  Christopher you can drive by and see it.  The nursery often has small 1 and 2 gallons of these in stock too.  Mine was a 1 gallon last Spring. 

Back to palms, I love my Bismarckia but hesitate encouraging people to plant it here because they are #2 in diet preference behind CIDP for our newly arrived South American palm weevil. 

Tracy, I believe that’s Copperleaf plant AKA Jacob’s Coat (Acalypha wilkesiana). Very pretty! 

[Christopher Dillman]

3 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Tracy, I believe that’s Copperleaf plant AKA Jacob’s Coat (Acalypha wilkesiana). Very pretty! 

Such inspirational recommendations from you and @Tracy. Thank you both for sharing!

The sun and shade zones on my lot are always a tricky proposition.  Just have to go for it and see what roots. 

And too bad about the bismarckias and weevils. Heart breaking to see these once giant and proud CIDPs in my neighborhood go down like that. A few are on city property - if they could only carve out some palm budget to remove and plant some beefy Jubaea chilensis.