Triple Chrysalidocarpus (Dypsis) crosses

[JD in the OC]

I'm working on the following which I've never done before but hoping for some good traits to be passed on!  I was able to make some C. pembanus x decaryi x decaryi which are a back-cross, but have never done a "triple cross".

C. leptocheilos x decaryi x pembanus and the seeds are only half developed but look good so far. Pictures attached 

C. pembanus x decaryi x leptocheilos. Seeds are 1/2" and holding so far. 

C. lutescens x decaryi x leptocheilos and the seeds are still very small...just pollinated it last week. 

 

[Tracy]

3 hours ago, JD in the OC said:

I'm working on the following which I've never done before but hoping for some good traits to be passed on!  I was able to make some C. pembanus x decaryi x decaryi which are a back-cross, but have never done a "triple cross".

C. leptocheilos x decaryi x pembanus and the seeds are only half developed but look good so far. Pictures attached 

C. pembanus x decaryi x leptocheilos. Seeds are 1/2" and holding so far. 

C. lutescens x decaryi x leptocheilos and the seeds are still very small...just pollinated it last week. 

 

I have no experience hybridizing palms but have done some cycad crosses.  Your notation raised a question for me.  You seem to be missing parenthesis.   Three species names in a row can be different crosses based on where the parenthesis are placed.  Specifically:

Female a × (female b × male c)

Versus

(Female a × male b) × male c

Female always is first in order, but the difference the parenthesis clarify is which is the hybrid that you are introducing the new pure species with.  Just an observation to get clearer on the genetic mix.  Hope you are successful with your experiments. 

[JD in the OC]

Tracy,
 

Honestly, Just too lazy to put them in there..  thanks for bringing it up 🧐
 

C. (leptocheilos x decaryi) x pembanus 
C. (pembanus x decaryi) x leptocheilos 
C. (lutescens x decaryi) x leptocheilos 

[Billeb]

2 hours ago, JD in the OC said:

C. (leptocheilos x decaryi) x pembanus 
C. (pembanus x decaryi) x leptocheilos 
C. (lutescens x decaryi) x leptocheilos 

Wow! 
 

So how do we get on the list of recipients to buy these??!?! 🤣🤙🏻

 

-dale 

[Fusca]

@JD in the OC, so you emasculated all of the male flowers before hand pollinating?  Impressive!  Doesn't look like you have to climb very high which helps.  I'm hoping to do some hybrids at some point but my Butia refuses to flower!  😆

[JD in the OC]

Dale

Well, i don't even know if they're gonna work yet ☺️

Fusca,

Look into Beastie Blooms or any high phosphorus fertilizer...a few treatments and VOALA!  Flowers. 

[JD in the OC]

Fusca

Don't have to worry sir Chrysalidocarpus hybrids self seeding as their pollen generally isn't viable due to being non-uniform in size and shape.  They do produce parthenocarpic fruits tho which is why i usually spray the inflorescense with water and a surfactant to remove the bunk pollen. 

JD

[Fusca]

25 minutes ago, JD in the OC said:

Don't have to worry sir Chrysalidocarpus hybrids self seeding as their pollen generally isn't viable due to being non-uniform in size and shape.  They do produce parthenocarpic fruits tho which is why i usually spray the inflorescense with water and a surfactant to remove the bunk pollen. 

JD

Interesting, didn't know that.  Also never thought of using anything in addition to Palmgain.  I'll give it a try, thanks!

[happypalms]

Hmmm hybrids in the plant kingdom hey. I remember the debate about GMO crops.yes some plants hybridise by themselves but that’s Mother Nature at work. Hybrids we are creating is not good for the future of plant genetics I admire your skill and knowledge on your subject. It’s a bit like Dolly the sheep that they cloned imagine cloning me @happypalms good lord help the world if there was a million happypalms running around the planet. When they made me they broke the mould for a good reason you only want one happypalms running around the planet trust me. Look at the future of the planet not the present what are we leaving behind 🌎

[JD in the OC]

These are the C. (pembanus x decaryi) x leptocheilos seeds. Only about 1/2" (12mm) long. Still have about 6-8 weeks to ripen.  I'll know if they are going to hold within 2 weeks.

[JD in the OC]

Seeds made it through hurricane Milton! Hooray!  When i removed the foil and mesh from the rack i noticed that there are about a dozen of these larger seeds amongst hundreds of smaller seeds (which are usually the ones that are likely parthenocarpic). This fits with the last percentages achieved on the first back-cross that i did earlier this year: C. (pembanus x decaryi) x decaryi. 

[tim_brissy_13]

On 10/3/2024 at 9:48 AM, happypalms said:

Hmmm hybrids in the plant kingdom hey. I remember the debate about GMO crops.yes some plants hybridise by themselves but that’s Mother Nature at work. Hybrids we are creating is not good for the future of plant genetics I admire your skill and knowledge on your subject. It’s a bit like Dolly the sheep that they cloned imagine cloning me @happypalms good lord help the world if there was a million happypalms running around the planet. When they made me they broke the mould for a good reason you only want one happypalms running around the planet trust me. Look at the future of the planet not the present what are we leaving behind 🌎

It’s an interesting ethical discussion. I’d say in this case we don’t have to worry too much about blurring the genetic pool lines or the conservation of the parent species. I’d agree if we’re looking at hybridising endangered species where ideally we should aim to keep the species pure. Ultimately, if an activity generates interest in the palm world it can’t be all bad, and there is a whole world of palm nuts who love hybrids. 

[JD in the OC]

Non-cocosoidal hybrids are sterile and don't make their own seed (kind of like being diecious) thus they need donor pollen. Which means there must be a donor present with synchronous flowering to make a back-cross.  So pure species will always out-reproduce hybrids and the hybrids will eventually die off for lack of space, resources, etc. ensuring the continuation of pure, even endangered, species.  There are already plenty of Nurseries and Botanical Gardens worldwide that propagate endangered species to stave off extinction; so palm tree hybrids, if anything, are under-studied and under-propagated. 

JD

[JD in the OC]

Chrysalidocarpus (pembanus x decaryi) x decaryi getting some good color!  The three seedlings in this particular grex are HIGHLY variable!

[JD in the OC]

Update 

C. (pembanus x decaryi) x leptocheilos first batch didn't make it. Second batch still developing 🙏

C. (leptocheilos x decaryi) x pembanus yielded 5 seeds which are in soil now.

C. (leptocheilos x decaryi) x blackii is the newest cross...still developing: