Pine Trees?

[SeanK]

Anyone use small pines in the landscape? By small I mean species that top out at 20 or 30 feet tall. Here in the SE US, all the pines are 100-ft tall. 

Slash, Longleaf, Loblolly, Shortleaf; all too big for 1/2 acre yards. Even White and Virginia pine are pretty big. Are there any that only grow about 30-ft, suitable for canopy?

[PalmsInBaltimore]

not a pine, but I love the "blue arrow" Rocky Mountain juniper (Juniperus scopulorum). Moderately quick grower, vertical, cheap, doesn't get more than about 1-2 stories tall. Planted in a row, they're better for providing morning or afternoon shade or a wind break, not so much as a spreading canopy

[Silas_Sancona]

3 hours ago, SeanK said:

Anyone use small pines in the landscape? By small I mean species that top out at 20 or 30 feet tall. Here in the SE US, all the pines are 100-ft tall. 

Slash, Longleaf, Loblolly, Shortleaf; all too big for 1/2 acre yards. Even White and Virginia pine are pretty big. Are there any that only grow about 30-ft, suitable for canopy?

If any of the sps. can grow back there, this is probably your best bet for " short " Pinus sps. =  



That said, be aware, most -U.S. sps esp. - are slooww growers.

[Colin1110082]

We have white pine everywhere here they all grow around 100+ feet. I don’t have pines in my yard but my neighbor does. For conifers we have a white spruce and Fraser fir in our yard. I like pines but my yard is small so I would be afraid of it falling on our house lol. I would plant some pine, cypress, and oak if we had more space 

[Merlyn]

Some Podocarpus will grow 30 to 40 feet tall and can have the lower branches removed.  I don't know if they are hardy to your area.  Just seach "podocarpus tree" for some images.

[JeskiM]

Try Pinus bungeanna.

It stays fairly small and is a slow grower with very interesting bark. Can be kinda hard to find though.

Also there are many "dwarf" or mini versions of some of the larger pines such as Pinus strobus (eastern white pine), that may be worth looking for.

-Matt

[hbernstein]

10 hours ago, JeskiM said:

Try Pinus bungeanna.

It stays fairly small and is a slow grower with very interesting bark. Can be kinda hard to find though.

Also there are many "dwarf" or mini versions of some of the larger pines such as Pinus strobus (eastern white pine), that may be worth looking for.

-Matt

Cultivars are your best bet. I don't think that pinons can tolerate the rainfall, humidity, and night time Summer heat of the Southeast.

[Calosphace]

Loblolly pine takes to bonsai almost the same as Japanese black pine from what I hear.

I love pines too but cannot fit one in my landscape sadly. I have considered trying to source what Nathan said, a pinyon pine species. There's Pinus remota native to west texas that is quite small (to 30 feet) and of course extremely heat tolerant, that is the one I am trying to source when I move to TX

oh and it grows in limestone so it would be perfect around concrete

Pinus clausa is another shorter species and it is native to sand scrub habitat in Florida so humidity is definitely not a problem. im uncertain if the sand is a requirement of the plant to grow or simply where it grows because it doesnt get outcompeted

alternatively i really like "Gray owl" Juniper it's a likely hybrid of a southeastern species and possibly a western species, at work we grow it in the parking lot without issue. in the Japanese garden many of the original exotic junipers planted died and were replaced with this variety.

there is also the Florida yew and Florida torreya, they would love the climate of Atlanta and are in the height range you say. they are both very endangered but are grown by several nurseries. i bet in your climate they would be able to breed as well so you could be helping the species out

[Silas_Sancona]

3 hours ago, Calosphace said:

Loblolly pine takes to bonsai almost the same as Japanese black pine from what I hear.

I love pines too but cannot fit one in my landscape sadly. I have considered trying to source what Nathan said, a pinyon pine species. There's Pinus remota native to west texas that is quite small (to 30 feet) and of course extremely heat tolerant, that is the one I am trying to source when I move to TX

oh and it grows in limestone so it would be perfect around concrete

 

Since you're close enough to where it grows,  if you cross paths with -any- one who can access seed ( or seedlings ), Pinus pinceana  ( Weeping Pinyon ) might be worth trialing in that part of TX ..esp. if sourced from the northern edge of it's range. Is one of the "  Holy Grail " Pinyon sps. from Mexico.  There may be already be natural hybrids between it and P. remota  where the ranges of both overlap or come close to one anothers..

Smooth bark AZ Cypress is another worthwhile conifer worth having around.. Bright silvery Blue foliage and dark red / red-ish orange  colored peeling bark are a rare combo tree-wise.

[JeskiM]

I second that smooth bark AZ Cypress . It's a great tree and very easy to grow.

Pinus remota is very hard to find. If you find it, you can expect it to grow very slow. Only a few inches a year.

-Matt

[Calosphace]

I just ordered this for a friend: https://www.garden-treasures.com/products/pinus-taeda-dwarf?_pos=1&_sid=e61a3e5cc&_ss=r if the nursery is legit, it is from the JC Raulston lineage of dwarf loblolly

and yep Pinus remota is quite slow. @JeskiM are there other north american pines you would reccommend for the Austin area? I'm moving there next year so I've been curious what would work there

[JeskiM]

These are the ones I have on my property that have grown well for the last 10 years :

brutia var. eldarica, bungeana, coulteri, engelmannii, monophylla, pinea, ponderosa, remota, sabiniana, strobiformis, and thunbergii

I had three roxburghii that did very well, but died in the big freeze. I have a new one that I will plant and hopefully it can go many years before the next deep freeze.

The engelmannii took a big hit in the deep freeze, but they were young at the time, only chest high. The Italian stone pines also took a hit, but it was very erratic, with some much worse than others 

I've seen people grow Loblolly and Slash around here, but if you are on solid limestone, to the west of I-35, like I am, then you will have problems with them in a few years ... they simply can't take it long term.

-Matt

 

[Silas_Sancona]

9 minutes ago, JeskiM said:

These are the ones I have on my property that have grown well for the last 10 years :

brutia var. eldarica, bungeana, coulteri, engelmannii, monophylla, pinea, ponderosa, remota, sabiniana, strobiformis, and thunbergii

I had three roxburghii that did very well, but died in the big freeze. I have a new one that I will plant and hopefully it can go many years before the next deep freeze.

The engelmannii took a big hit in the deep freeze, but they were young at the time, only chest high. The Italian stone pines also took a hit, but it was very erratic, with some much worse than others 

I've seen people grow Loblolly and Slash around here, but if you are on solid limestone, to the west of I-35, like I am, then you will have problems with them in a few years ... they simply can't take it long term.

-Matt

 

How have coulteri and sabiniana done for you out there?

[JeskiM]

They grow anywhere from 6 to 12 inches a year, depending on the year.  One year they did about 18 inches,. They only keep a year or two worth of needles  They are steady growers, maybe not as good as what they do in Cali. I give them water every week in the summer months. During the cooler months they get whatever mother nature supplies.

I am told that there is an individual who has both species in Austin and they have coned before. Mine are from seed and are both 6 foot tall now.  

-Matt

 

[JeskiM]

If you really want to see an oddity in this area; I know of a blue spruce that has been growing here for the last 25 -30 years. It's about 15 foot tall, maybe only grows 6 inches a year. 

I think it is a Colorado Blue Spruce, but don't know the cultivar. 

The only other spruce that I know can survive here, with weekly watering and partial midday shade in the summer is Picea chihuahuana. 

 There's also a fir tree tree, or two, that can do okay and that is  Abies vejarii and Abies equi trojani.  Both must be on natural roots, never grafted. All the grafted plants I've seen here fail in the summer. Both are a bit slow here and require regular water in the heat.

-Matt

[Silas_Sancona]

39 minutes ago, JeskiM said:

They grow anywhere from 6 to 12 inches a year, depending on the year.  One year they did about 18 inches,. They only keep a year or two worth of needles  They are steady growers, maybe not as good as what they do in Cali. I give them water every week in the summer months. During the cooler months they get whatever mother nature supplies.

I am told that there is an individual who has both species in Austin and they have coned before. Mine are from seed and are both 6 foot tall now.  

-Matt

 

The Avrg range of 6-18"  of " per year "  growth sounds about right for both, at least for those i'd see in habitat around central CA. . P. coulteri  might grow a bit faster in S. Cal though.  I have seen coulteri grow at a decent clip -for a Pine- in city park or the rare " in someone's backyard, in the city " - type settings however.

There's one in a neighborhood park back there i've watched for years since i left the area.. Not all that full but it's growth rate has surprised me. 


" City " specimens of both also seemed to hold onto their needles longer, esp. coulteri.   P. sabiniana in habitat are naturally quite sparse, esp. during really dry years and when older..

Can't speak for sabiniana ( thinking most younger ones i'd see were a few ft taller ) but coulteri can start coning once at approx 10-12ft. 

Wise advise?:  When collecting cones,  coulteri esp,  use gloves ..You'd be surprised just how sharp the longer scales ( eh, sharp claws ) close to the base of the cones can be.. Quite a bit heavier than many might assume too.   ...And don't repeat a mistake i made when attempting to get a cone to open..

Placing one in a pot of boiling water won't do a thing ..except make a huge sappy mess ..and ruin the pot, lol. 

Sat atop a BBQ grill where the coals are still hot  ...but not hot enough to fry the cones = worked pretty well.

[rprimbs]

This could be wrong but I have heard that if you take a sideways growing pine tree branch, and root it up, it will continue to grow sideways -- like a dwarf pine.