Palm trees and exotics in Ålesund, Norway.

[Norwaypalmtrees]

Hi

I am quite new to this forum, but I have been growing palm trees in Ålesund, Norway at latitude 62N for 20 years. We have a huge Trachycarpus fortunei standing about 4m tall - been in the ground over 15 years, never protected during the winters. Our winter climate is VERY MILD for the high latitude (gulf stream heated) and qualify for a us zone 8b, some places even 9a. This year I have taken it a step further and planted Washingtonia robusta, Jubaea chilensis and Phoenix canariensis in the garden too (+ a lot of other exotic plants). I will cover those palm trees for the winter, but it will only be a light cover, no boxes with extra heating or anything like that.

 

I have an instagram page "norwaypalmtrees" where you can see more photos. I also make youtube-videos and you can find one here:

 

[gurugu]

Just astounding!

I also benefit from the Gulf Stream, but the anomaly yearly mean temperature where you live is around 12⁰C higher, while mine is 6/7⁰C. which allows me to grow many (sub) tropical plants and palms that, otherwise, I couldn't grow.

As you already know, tropical palms and plants growing tightly side by side, grow much better and withstand cold better too. Actually, many members on this forum grow palms this way, despite they live in warm,hot climates, without freezing temperatures.

It much depends on the size of the plot, garden one has got.

Good luck.

[UK_Palms]

I commend your zone pushing efforts, but you will do very well to keep the CIDP and Washingtonia alive and actually properly growing up there at 62N! The UK has the furthest established specimens from the equator and the absolute cut-off point for CIDP and Washingtonia over here is the coastal regions at 55N.

Even the sheltered western isles of Scotland that are in the direct path of the Gulf Stream and rarely get a frost, there are still no CIDP or Washies there and that is 55-58N. Well actually I know of one small CIDP in a sheltered part of western Scotland at 57N and it hasn’t grown at all in 10 years. In fact it has declined if anything. The lack of light and very short days in winter being the biggest issue I suspect.

It will be interesting to see how some of these palms fair for you. No doubt you can keep them alive and kicking along, but will they actually grow up there? As I said, the short dark days in winter with months of barely any sun will be the biggest issue at your latitude. And the prolonged cool period in general lasting from October - May. This is what stops them from growing many palms in western Scotland. Your annual mean is the highest in Norway almost at 8.1C, but still quite low. St James Park in central London is 4C warmer at 12.2C.

[Harry’s Palms]

That is amazing to have a palm that far north. A testament to the hardiness of Trachycarpus. Harry

[Colin1110082]

13 hours ago, Norwaypalmtrees said:

Hi

I am quite new to this forum, but I have been growing palm trees in Ålesund, Norway at latitude 62N for 20 years. We have a huge Trachycarpus fortunei standing about 4m tall - been in the ground over 15 years, never protected during the winters. Our winter climate is VERY MILD for the high latitude (gulf stream heated) and qualify for a us zone 8b, some places even 9a. This year I have taken it a step further and planted Washingtonia robusta, Jubaea chilensis and Phoenix canariensis in the garden too (+ a lot of other exotic plants). I will cover those palm trees for the winter, but it will only be a light cover, no boxes with extra heating or anything like that.

 

I have an instagram page "norwaypalmtrees" where you can see more photos. I also make youtube-videos and you can find one here:

 

That’s pretty rad! I’ll be honest the first thing I think of when I hear Norway is ❄️ 

That’s my American mentality lol. Enjoy the palms!

[Palmfjord62degressnorth]

On 10/14/2024 at 1:45 PM, UK_Palms said:

I commend your zone pushing efforts, but you will do very well to keep the CIDP and Washingtonia alive and actually properly growing up there at 62N! The UK has the furthest established specimens from the equator and the absolute cut-off point for CIDP and Washingtonia over here is the coastal regions at 55N.

Even the sheltered western isles of Scotland that are in the direct path of the Gulf Stream and rarely get a frost, there are still no CIDP or Washies there and that is 55-58N. Well actually I know of one small CIDP in a sheltered part of western Scotland at 57N and it hasn’t grown at all in 10 years. In fact it has declined if anything. The lack of light and very short days in winter being the biggest issue I suspect.

It will be interesting to see how some of these palms fair for you. No doubt you can keep them alive and kicking along, but will they actually grow up there? As I said, the short dark days in winter with months of barely any sun will be the biggest issue at your latitude. And the prolonged cool period in general lasting from October - May. This is what stops them from growing many palms in western Scotland. Your annual mean is the highest in Norway almost at 8.1C, but still quite low. St James Park in central London is 4C warmer at 12.2C.

I live in the same city myself. Compared to Scotland slightly south of us, man y of the coastal regions actually has colder summers. In my experience cidp and washintonia grows well here. Just tried in pots with the cidp, but the growth is ok.  Washibgtonia also grows ok. Actually trachys in pots are slower for me. We have long spring, summer and early autumn days with sun up to 19-20 hours in summer, which I think helps on the summer growth. This year we had a rainy summer but still had 50days og 20-30 degrees, and very many at 18-19 degrees. A little more warmth than most of coastal Scotland I guess. Enough to get some ok growth, even on Washingtonia that grow well from 12 degrees Earth temperature from what I have read.
His Trachy grew about 10 new fronds, and has stretched from 1m to 4m in 15 years. Not to bad in a northern climate, unprotected.   Ofcourse a good microclimate also matters and helps. Both mine and his gardens are in a southwestern and southern slope with sun all year. Even on the farkost day of the year. On the darkest day sunrise ril sundown is 5hours, but it changes quickly and one month later it is 7hours, and 10-11 hours in the end of february. We have a more variable terrain here which give some great microclimates. 
Spring mostly start earlier here than most of Scandinavia, and autumn are long compared to the continental parts.  Actually or highest winter temp last winter was 16 degrees celsius. Every winter we have a few weeks with highs of 10-14 degrees. We rarely see any night frost before mid november and some years as late as january. The average coldest temp each year is -6, and record cold is -10. 
Like most of the belt from 55degrees and up it doesen’t give much warmth in the period of december and january. 
October is a variable month here, this week we have highs of up to 18 degrees celsius actually. 
I also look forward to see how it Will go, but I know both cidp and washintonia have made it in sheltered locations close to the sea in Newcastle, and grows ok. Their average is about 1 degree warmer througout the year, so I hope it Will be possible in a sheltered garden with great microclimate here. But only time Will show 😀
 

 

[happypalms]

Amazing your one dedicated gardener will someone give that man a dozen arenga engleri along with a handful of chamaedorea Radicalis seeds please. I would if I could send them.

[ChrisA]

That big Trachy is a brute!  Looking forward to seeing how the rest do in your climate this winter. I think the Washingtonia might be a struggle but I may be surprised.  That big Jubaea chilensis should be safe there, yes?

I would think once these all get established and maybe with some warm sunny summers you should have some stunning specimens!

Skål!

[UK_Palms]

12 hours ago, Palmfjord62degressnorth said:

I live in the same city myself. Compared to Scotland slightly south of us, man y of the coastal regions actually has colder summers. In my experience cidp and washintonia grows well here. Just tried in pots with the cidp, but the growth is ok.  Washibgtonia also grows ok. Actually trachys in pots are slower for me. We have long spring, summer and early autumn days with sun up to 19-20 hours in summer, which I think helps on the summer growth. This year we had a rainy summer but still had 50days og 20-30 degrees, and very many at 18-19 degrees. A little more warmth than most of coastal Scotland I guess. Enough to get some ok growth, even on Washingtonia that grow well from 12 degrees Earth temperature from what I have read.
His Trachy grew about 10 new fronds, and has stretched from 1m to 4m in 15 years. Not to bad in a northern climate, unprotected.   Ofcourse a good microclimate also matters and helps. Both mine and his gardens are in a southwestern and southern slope with sun all year. Even on the farkost day of the year. On the darkest day sunrise ril sundown is 5hours, but it changes quickly and one month later it is 7hours, and 10-11 hours in the end of february. We have a more variable terrain here which give some great microclimates. 
Spring mostly start earlier here than most of Scandinavia, and autumn are long compared to the continental parts.  Actually or highest winter temp last winter was 16 degrees celsius. Every winter we have a few weeks with highs of 10-14 degrees. We rarely see any night frost before mid november and some years as late as january. The average coldest temp each year is -6, and record cold is -10. 
Like most of the belt from 55degrees and up it doesen’t give much warmth in the period of december and january. 
October is a variable month here, this week we have highs of up to 18 degrees celsius actually. 
I also look forward to see how it Will go, but I know both cidp and washintonia have made it in sheltered locations close to the sea in Newcastle, and grows ok. Their average is about 1 degree warmer througout the year, so I hope it Will be possible in a sheltered garden with great microclimate here. But only time Will show 😀

There is a 10 foot CIDP in South Shields near Newcastle at 54.9N but there are a few other smaller ones going up to Blythe at 55.1N on the northeast coast of England. However that appears to be the absolute cut off point in the UK for CIDP and Washingtonia. The red line below shows the cut off point and the blue line is the Scottish border. There is absolutely no CIDP’s or Washingtonia documented to be growing beyond the red line for multiple reasons like low annual mean temperature, low sunshine hours, too much rain/humidity etc.

On the west coast it is even lower down by almost a full degree of latitude, at about 54.1N in Morecambe. There was a smallish Washingtonia growing there, but I don’t even know if that is still alive and kicking. Again that is at 54.1N and I have to question whether they can even be long-term there (I suspect freezes will knock them out every 10-20 years, combined with poor spring-summer recovery). So they’ might not even long term at 54-55N in the UK.

 

I don’t think anyone will be able to grow a Washingtonia further north than 54-55N in the world, but I am happy to proven wrong on this. They are also extremely slow growing up there too. From my observations the CIDP and Washingtonia near Morecambe and Newcastle are only growing at 1/4 to 1/5 of the speed of specimens in London!!! So they will also struggle to reach a big enough size between ‘major freeze’ events to survive (need to be pretty big to get through a major freeze).

Of course the west coast of Scotland has huge Cordylines and Trachycarpus, which can take a lot of cold/cool temps and minimal sunshine, but there is a reason why CIDP and Washingtonia do not grow there. The annual mean is too low and sunshine hours during the cooler half of the year is too low. It’s just too cool, wet and humid year-round. And that is only at latitude 55-60N! This issue is going to apply to the west cost of Norway as well. CIDP and Washingtonia will survive a few winters up there, but they will not really grow at all and just go into decline eventually. They kind of need a dry summer as well, especially for recovery after any freeze damage.

It will be interesting to see how it goes for you anyway. I fully expect you to get them through the next few winters, especially while small when they are still easy to protect. But once they start getting bigger and a ‘bad’ winter comes along, that will be the test! As will be getting a decent enough spring/summer recovery. It will certainly put your microclimate to the test anyway! Good luck! 👍

[Foxpalms]

14 hours ago, Palmfjord62degressnorth said:

I live in the same city myself. Compared to Scotland slightly south of us, man y of the coastal regions actually has colder summers. In my experience cidp and washintonia grows well here. Just tried in pots with the cidp, but the growth is ok.  Washibgtonia also grows ok. Actually trachys in pots are slower for me. We have long spring, summer and early autumn days with sun up to 19-20 hours in summer, which I think helps on the summer growth. This year we had a rainy summer but still had 50days og 20-30 degrees, and very many at 18-19 degrees. A little more warmth than most of coastal Scotland I guess. Enough to get some ok growth, even on Washingtonia that grow well from 12 degrees Earth temperature from what I have read.
His Trachy grew about 10 new fronds, and has stretched from 1m to 4m in 15 years. Not to bad in a northern climate, unprotected.   Ofcourse a good microclimate also matters and helps. Both mine and his gardens are in a southwestern and southern slope with sun all year. Even on the farkost day of the year. On the darkest day sunrise ril sundown is 5hours, but it changes quickly and one month later it is 7hours, and 10-11 hours in the end of february. We have a more variable terrain here which give some great microclimates. 
Spring mostly start earlier here than most of Scandinavia, and autumn are long compared to the continental parts.  Actually or highest winter temp last winter was 16 degrees celsius. Every winter we have a few weeks with highs of 10-14 degrees. We rarely see any night frost before mid november and some years as late as january. The average coldest temp each year is -6, and record cold is -10. 
Like most of the belt from 55degrees and up it doesen’t give much warmth in the period of december and january. 
October is a variable month here, this week we have highs of up to 18 degrees celsius actually. 
I also look forward to see how it Will go, but I know both cidp and washintonia have made it in sheltered locations close to the sea in Newcastle, and grows ok. Their average is about 1 degree warmer througout the year, so I hope it Will be possible in a sheltered garden with great microclimate here. But only time Will show 😀
 

 

Washingtonia and canary island date palms grow during the winter here slowly so that doesn't surprise me. What would be the max amount growth per year as here washingtonia grow  fast during the summer months. 3ft per year fast. In 2022 during July and Aug I was getting 1+ frond per week

[bgl]

Thomas,

Welcome to PalmTalk! Your garden is truly amazing - thanks for sharing the beautiful video. Wishing you the very best for your palms and especially now that the winter season is approaching.

Despite having lived in Norway (Oslo,  many years ago) and having been to Norway many times I have never been to Ålesund but I do have plans to visit in May next year and I would love to see your garden and your palms in person.

M V H fra Hawaii och (just nu) San Diego

Bo-Göran

 

[Palmy Portlander]

I am very impressed with your efforts and have enjoyed your videos a great deal.

I wonder if creating some drainage away from the roots of some of your palms (especially the Washingtonia) might be helpful, or perhaps just covering the soil around the roots with plastic during late winter and spring so they are not rooted in cold wet soil  Just a thought.

Like you, I have several Trachy F and a Jubaea.  I have a 80 cm high Washingtonia Filifera I started two years ago and last year I bought a Butia Capitata and a Phoneix Sylvestris.  For now the Jubaea, Washingtonia, Butia and Phoenix are in pots but once they are a bit bigger, I will be planting the  in the yard,  However the thorns and sharp, toxic, frond tips on the Phoenix may lead me to give that one away.   

Our summers are very warm and dry and our winters are typically mild and rainy so all these palms should be fine in a normal year.  Thanks [sic] to climate change we now have to water our trees during the summers, which came as quite a shock to many gardeners.

The limiting factor here are the occasional arctic blasts. 

Last year we had an almost record cold of  -10 c with high, desiccating, winds, followed by freezing rain and snow and several days below freezing. 

That weather killed off wind-exposed Trachy's, cordylines and phormium that had survived for decades. 

More than half of the  fronds on my lush 10 m high Trachy F that was out in the wind were killed. However, it survived and I hope that if we have a couple of mild years in a row it will look handsome again.  (Once established, Tracy F's here grow quite fast - people plant them next to their homes thinking they are shrubs and then three years later they are growing up into their gutters.)

As I write this we are experiencing cold dry winds again (-2 c) and freezing rain and snow is in the forecast for tomorrow, which is frustrating.  The weather is forecasted to hover around freezing for a day and then wam up and rain within 60 hours.  I am hoping for the best. 

I am nurturing a Bismarckia Nobilis and have germinated several Rhopalostylis sapida (Nikau palms) but those will have to protected in the winter from frost.  Once they are big enough I will give them away to someone on the southern Oregon coast where they should be able grow outdoors.

Yuccas and Opuntias do fine outdoors here even with the extreme cold.  I have seen prickly pears that are a meter high and two meters across. 

However,  unlike you, I never dreamed of planting a Norfolk Pine outdoors - even if it doesn't make it, you get credit for trying. 

Like you, we have some hardy bananas (Musa Basjoo.)  I put some extra mulch at the base of the plants during the fall and then simply let them die back with the frosts.  Even after the arctic blast last year, the bananas came back this year, starting a little later in the spring but recovering fully by early fall.  I did learn not to cut the dead pseudostems, even though they looked bedraggled, because the new growth comes up through them, protected from late spring cold snaps. 

I look forward to more videos, with your progress reports and lessons for all of us palmy zone-challengers around the globe.

PS. I have visited Bodo and Svolvaer, checked their climate statistics and watched those cities on various webcams during this winter.  Do you think a Trachy F or a Waggie might survive there outdoors, maybe against the south facing wall of a house?  That would make them the northernmost outdoor palms in the world, quite a bit further north than the Trachys in the botanic garden in Reykjavik and the only palms north of the arctic circle.