1 of 2 Mule palms sudden brown out. Not fusarium wilt.

[t76turbo]

New to the site.  Found it while researching an issue I am having.  Glad to find it because I love reading about palms and learning new things about landscaping.  I have already searched and searched and found nothing about this issue and am stumped.  Hopefully someone here has some input.  

 

A year and 3 months ago I had 2 larger mules installed as well as a nice silvester palm.  Everything has been great since I got them.  Followed appropriate fertilization recommendations,  supplemented water when required after watering heavy and frequently when first transplanted.  In the year since installation I have only had to remove a few dead fronds from normal aging other than I think all three had a single frond emerge from the crown and go to full length and then die.   I think the palm with issues had that happen more recently.  The other 2 palms had that happen closer to when they were put in.

Then over the last 3 weeks or so we had high winds from the two hurricanes that hit Florida.  Luckily we were on the edges so we didn't take a direct hit.  But the winds were whipping around pretty good.  A few days after the last storm I noticed some brown tips on some fronds on one of the Mules.  Then the next day when I walked outside approximately 1/2 of each and every frond were brown.  Now a couple days after that, EVERY frond is brown except one single small frond in the center which is still green.  So this has gone from a beautiful green palm to basically 99% brown in about one week.

Regarding Fusarium (which I know there are a number of threads on this site about mules with fusarium) ,I had a couple small canary island data palms from the big orange box store maybe 8-10 years ago in the back yard that died of Fusarium Wilt.  Those two small trees are long gone and all the tools I used on them are long gone too.  It showed up not long after buying them and installing them.  None of the normal symptoms have shown up on this Mule.  And the other mule that is approx 20 feet away from the impacted one looks great.  They are both in the front yard.  What I am saying is I dont think fusarium is an issue.  (Also I have 3 VERY large queens in the back yard near where the canarys were and they still look great.  

 

I will post a picture.  I think in the background you can see the green mule.  Also there is a neighbors cabbage palm in the picture behind mine.  So the green you see high on the left side is their tree.  You can see a water hose hanging from a frond in the pic.  That is only there to give a little supplemental water.  It was not there before this issue.

 

I was thinking maybe this palm was extra sensitive to the high winds.  Or I know I have a few moles in my yard.  Theoretically they could have dug around the root ball and impacted the palm.  But I have never seen any damage to something as large as a tree due to moles.  So I doubt thats it.

 

 

 

 

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[Harry’s Palms]

Welcome to PT . I am sorry to see that in such a nice palm. I have no idea about what the issue is but I can say that I doubt it is moles. I have moles that mess up my flower beds and even on freshly planted small palms but they have never caused any issues with the palms. They are more of a nuisance than anything else. I think they eat insects like grubs . Harry

[kinzyjr]

@t76turbo 

Welcome to PalmTalk!

It could be windburn or something else, but if you bought it with a warranty of any kind, I'd start getting the paperwork together.  That doesn't look good.

[Palmerr]

Why are you watering it like that? Is the water on or what? Maybe that could be the issue rotting the top part of the palm out is that a thing im not sure!

[t76turbo]

Thank you both for the responses.  Good to hear on the moles.  I have tried to rid. my yard of them using different methods but nothing works.  So I would be in bad shape if that WAS the issue.

 

Regarding warranty....  They DID have a warranty but it was a year and that ended at the end of June.  Thats the first thing I looked at.  Hopefully if this is the end of that palm, they will give me a good deal on something to replace it with since it is that close.  But who knows.  I am scared to put anything expensive back in there if I can't identify what caused the issue.  I hope it is something it can recover from. 

 

Any reason to avoid throwing water at it just in case it helps????   I want to give it as good a chance as any but dont want to cause more issues. I am in basically 95% sand with some organic matter added over years of beds in the area and mowing when there was grass there.  So water runs right through the area pretty quickly.  It is irrigated twice a week with the irrigation system.

[t76turbo]

4 minutes ago, Palmerr said:

Why are you watering it like that? Is the water on or what? Maybe that could be the issue rotting the top part of the palm out is that a thing im not sure!

I only did that AFTER the issue.  Was letting it barely run out and slowly wet the soil.  (because I am on mostly sand) I did not water that way previously.  The water is barely coming out of the hose.  Like a pencil sized steam.  And it goes almost straight down to the ground.  

[Palmerr]

Ok cool i was scared for a sec that was the reason cause if it was the reason goodness that would be bad (But it surely wont cause it to die more lol)

[Merlyn]

@t76turbo welcome to PalmTalk!  I don't see anything in the picture that looks like Fusarium, do you have any photos from a week or so ago?  There are a number of diseases that can kill Mules, but generally not that fast.  Fusarium is usually easy to spot on Mules, Queens, and Washies.  One half (the left or the right, randomly) will just die...really fast.  But it's almost always one-sided death, and very rarely will it be evenly distributed along each frond.  I had one Queen die from Fusarium a while back.  I was out in the yard and my wife walked out and said, "Why is half of that frond dead?"  This is what it looked like:

You can see one side is completely dead, and the other half is just starting to die.  Here's the thread I posted on it:

One important thing to note is that Fusarium Oxysporum v. Canariensis is different than Fusarium Oxysporum v. Palmarum.  Palmarum kills Queens and Washingtonia and some Mules.  Canariensis kills CIDP and apparently infects other Phoenix but doesn't kill them...just makes them kind of unhealthy.  So if some of the fronds had that 1-sided death it's 100% guaranteed Fusarium and you should cut it down and dispose of it asap.

Other possibilities are:

• A serious root rot issue - generally doesn't happen that fast.  It might just look bad for years.  Drowning in hurricane water probably wouldn't be that fast either.
• Ganoderma - can kill pretty quick too, generally affects the lower trunk and sometimes there's a visible mushroom shelf-like conk on the side.  Sometimes there's no visible effect until you cut the trunk in half and see a big discolored area.
• Thielaviopsis - infects the upper trunk area, can also cause rapid death. 
• Lethal Bronzing - can cause rapid wilting of leaf tips first followed by the whole frond.  This is known to kill Butia and Queens, but to a lesser extent than Sylvestris.  I've seen batches of Sylvesters die from apparent LB with Queens and Pindos in the middle unaffected. 
• Wind-related damage - if the trunk is somewhat "loose" or wobbly it could have cracked the RIZ (root initiation zone) growing plate off the trunk, or severely damaged it.  Likewise the upper part near the palm heart is sometimes damaged by heavy wind.  That'll kill a palm really quick too.

With the looks of the one in the photo, I doubt you can do anything to save it.  Figuring out the cause of death is useful to avoid spreading a disease...if it is one.  It may just be one random monster gust of wind that hit that palm the wrong way.  If it's Ganoderma then replacing it with another palm in the same spot might be futile.  Supposedly Thielaviopsis and Fusarium are floating around in the air all the time, and generally infect freshly cut wounds...which is why usually you avoid cutting fronds off early.  Lethal Bronzing is primarily spread by leafhoppers, nothing to do to avoid infection other than choosing a resistant species.

[Palmerr]

Another thing to note that mule doesnt look very "Mule" Like on the trunk area it looks very sick on the trunk part too which is concerning i think its already dead any new growth thats green on the top? spear pull? Try and pull the newest frond "Spear" and if it doesnt its probably still alive if it pulls well less chance that its alive still.

[t76turbo]

@Merlyn   Thanks for the reply.  No one sided death at all.  I dont have a really recent pic of this mule but I can say with 100% certainty that it was beautiful as of about a week and a half ago.  But I will look.  If I can find one I will post it.

I am out in the yard literally every day.  I always look at the trees.  I unfortunately am familiar with fusarium due to the canary's I lost previously.  Definitely no one sided frond death on this tree.  

[Palmerr]

Yeah try and pull kinda hard on the newest growth on it if it comes out easily thats not good if it doesnt come out thats good.

[Palmerr]

I think a good explanation is wind damage to the heart if it happened after Helene and Milton.

[t76turbo]

Here is a better photo from the end of May 2024.  

 

[Palmerr]

Yeah i think its probably dead the trunk clearly looks bad right now like its dying Sooo if you can right now or tommorow try and tug on the new growth (Spear) if it comes out 90% chance its a goner if it doesnt maybe some hope?

[t76turbo]

2 minutes ago, Palmerr said:

I think a good explanation is wind damage to the heart if it happened after Helene and Milton.

It did.  We were on the outskirts but still got maybe 60+ mph winds.  Gusts.  Sustained winds of maybe 40ish.  The other mule looks almost perfect.  But depending on where the winds were coming from, the house could have blocked the other mule and kept it safe.

[Palmerr]

Yeah makes sense

[t76turbo]

8 minutes ago, Palmerr said:

Another thing to note that mule doesnt look very "Mule" Like on the trunk area it looks very sick on the trunk part too which is concerning i think its already dead any new growth thats green on the top? spear pull? Try and pull the newest frond "Spear" and if it doesnt its probably still alive if it pulls well less chance that its alive still.

I am not as familiar with mules so didn't know they dont look like mules.  But they do look like other 'mules' that a neighbor of mine has.  

 

I will get out tomorrow and pull on the one solitary green frond the tree has.  EVERYTHING is dead except that single small new frond.  

[t76turbo]

8 minutes ago, Palmerr said:

Yeah try and pull kinda hard on the newest growth on it if it comes out easily thats not good if it doesnt come out thats good.

Do you pull straight up???   I assume probably dont want to pull side to side. 

 

[Palmerr]

Well the other mule looks like a mule but the one thats doing bad looks darker and less mule like like its sick The green one looks like a mule and that one looks like a mule just.. The sick one looks different now

[Palmerr]

1 minute ago, t76turbo said:

Do you pull straight up???   I assume probably dont want to pull side to side. 

 

Erm yeah just pull straight up its hard to pull on a spear from a well established palm but yeah KINDA hard dont try as hard as you can it should just slide out if its dead but if its alive yeah it wont come out.

[t76turbo]

4 minutes ago, Palmerr said:

Yeah i think its probably dead the trunk clearly looks bad right now like its dying Sooo if you can right now or tommorow try and tug on the new growth (Spear) if it comes out 90% chance its a goner if it doesnt maybe some hope?

Not sure what looks bad on the truck but remember that there is a lot of discoloration from the water I had turned on and splashed some on the trunk.  The truck still looks like that second picture I just took except for the base of the fronds have lost any greet that were on them as you would expect when a frond dies. 

 

 

[Palmerr]

Some palms who have spear come back but in this situation.. I dont know.

[t76turbo]

1 minute ago, Palmerr said:

Erm yeah just pull straight up its hard to pull on a spear from a well established palm but yeah KINDA hard dont try as hard as you can it should just slide out if its dead but if its alive yeah it wont come out.

Thank you.  Will do that tomorrow.

 

[Palmerr]

2 minutes ago, t76turbo said:

Not sure what looks bad on the truck but remember that there is a lot of discoloration from the water I had turned on and splashed some on the trunk.  The truck still looks like that second picture I just took except for the base of the fronds have lost any greet that were on them as you would expect when a frond dies. 

 

 

Ohhh lol ok nevermind then the water was discoloring it.

[t76turbo]

3 minutes ago, Palmerr said:

Well the other mule looks like a mule but the one thats doing bad looks darker and less mule like like its sick The green one looks like a mule and that one looks like a mule just.. The sick one looks different now

Some of that may be the water I splashed on it.  I didn't put that in the original post but replied to someone else above with that info.  

[Palmerr]

Ok its the water definitely. 

[Merlyn]

52 minutes ago, t76turbo said:

Do you pull straight up???   I assume probably dont want to pull side to side. 

Yeah, to check for spear pull just tug lightly upward.  Don't yank on it.  If it is solid then maybe the old fronds were twisted up in the storm.  A direct downward gust could split the frond bases all at once...thus they all browned and died at the same time.

I would mark the spear leaf and adjacent fronds horiztonally with a sharpie.  If it is growing vertically an inch or so on a regular basis then it has a chance.  If the spear isn't growing after a few days then it's probably already d-e-d.