Milton before and after

[sonoranfans]

Hurricanes gusting to 110 mph can put a beating on palms.  While some species did better than others, all the taller ones were savaged, especially if they sat out solo in the wind.  I kind of see it clinically now as an experiment.  Only the shorter protected palms had low damage.  My tallest palms(and trees) roystonea regia at 40 feet +/-  5feet, were stripped of all but one leaf, but spears were undamaged, intact.  

before

after:

Damage on both were the same but the new spear has already opened, history says these will come back and recover in 2 summers.

[sonoranfans]

My sabal causiarum had major damage, my second tallest palm

 

Before

and after with a closeup

and after with a closeup

 

as you can see new spears and leaves were bent down.  It will probably regain it6s crown but it will need to put on even more height to get that.

[sonoranfans]

Beccariophoenix alfredii did not tilt at all, roots are too strong so the leaves were bent down

Before

I will add more later.  My yard didnt get wiped out but its going to take a few years to recover and everything will be even taller when the crowns are recovered

 

after. they all lay down

 

[Harry’s Palms]

Major weather events can really mess with a gardeners best plans. We don’t get hurricanes, fortunately , but our East Winds can reach 60-90mph . That is enough to really do some damage. We are in the middle of the season for these winds and so far I’ve only had minor damage on one of my smaller palms . I am glad you guys are safe , 110 mph winds are beyond my comprehension. Harry

[RFun]

13 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

Major weather events can really mess with a gardeners best plans. We don’t get hurricanes, fortunately , but our East Winds can reach 60-90mph . That is enough to really do some damage. We are in the middle of the season for these winds and so far I’ve only had minor damage on one of my smaller palms . I am glad you guys are safe , 110 mph winds are beyond my comprehension. Harry

Such great luck those Filifera, Filibusta and Robusta palms are so wind resistant there.

[swolf]

In cases where the new spear/meristem is impacted, would some kind of temporary tieing/staking via adjacent fronds be warranted?  I’ve previously resorted to that out of an abundance of caution but wonder how often it’s necessary.  Don’t want ‘stressed’ palms calling out to predatory FL beetles either! 😡😠

[sonoranfans]

9 minutes ago, swolf said:

In cases where the new spear/meristem is impacted, would some kind of temporary tieing/staking via adjacent fronds be warranted?  I’ve previously resorted to that out of an abundance of caution but wonder how often it’s necessary.  Don’t want ‘stressed’ palms calling out to predatory FL beetles either! 😡😠

I am leaning to cutbacks where necessary,  It doesn't look like clean bends that can be reshaped,  there are stress fractures and the petioles are not stiff.  I think it will be ok in 3 years perhaps back to a full crown.

[Chester B]

Ah man. That blows, your palms were looking fantastic. I know they’ll bounce back, but still…

[Tracy]

3 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

Beccariophoenix alfredii did not tilt at all, roots are too strong so the leaves were bent down

Before

I will add more later.  My yard didnt get wiped out but its going to take a few years to recover and everything will be even taller when the crowns are recovered

 

after. they all lay down

 

Ouch...I hope this is the end of the hurricane season for you.  Unfortunately there is no assurance as to what future hurricane seasons will bring.  The good news for you seems to be that the extent of your damage was property.  Plants we can regrow...other losses cannot be replaced. 

[Merlyn]

1 hour ago, Chester B said:

Ah man. That blows, your palms were looking fantastic. I know they’ll bounce back, but still…

I see what you did there... 

@sonoranfans it's good to see that nothing tilted over.  My 5 Alfredii are around 15 to 20ft total height, and none have any tilt or frond damage.  I did, however, overprune them a bit right before the storm.  And winds here had ~75mph maximum gusts.  And it moved through here fast too.  Wind peaks and duration were a bit less than previous storms that caused tilt.  Either way, it seems they get a lot stronger once they get to (roughly in my case) trunking.

Hopefully the Causiarum and Alfredii start growing new spears soon.  The damage to the top of the crown looks pretty bad.

[DoomsDave]

6 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

Hurricanes gusting to 110 mph can put a beating on palms.  While some species did better than others, all the taller ones were savaged, especially if they sat out solo in the wind.  I kind of see it clinically now as an experiment.  Only the shorter protected palms had low damage.  My tallest palms(and trees) roystonea regia at 40 feet +/-  5feet, were stripped of all but one leaf, but spears were undamaged, intact.  

before

after:

Damage on both were the same but the new spear has already opened, history says these will come back and recover in 2 summers.

That royal is like a great big middle finger at the great god Huracan!

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

Hate to see that but at least you live in a place where you can grow those beautiful palms to begin with and where they will regrow fast. I often think that when something bad like that happens it may also bring some as yet unrealized benefits.

[sonoranfans]

12 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I see what you did there... 

@sonoranfans it's good to see that nothing tilted over.  My 5 Alfredii are around 15 to 20ft total height, and none have any tilt or frond damage.  I did, however, overprune them a bit right before the storm.  And winds here had ~75mph maximum gusts.  And it moved through here fast too.  Wind peaks and duration were a bit less than previous storms that caused tilt.  Either way, it seems they get a lot stronger once they get to (roughly in my case) trunking.

Hopefully the Causiarum and Alfredii start growing new spears soon.  The damage to the top of the crown looks pretty bad.

Yes, the only tilted palm was a s9o;litary 25'  C. Pembana, and it must come down as you can see the root area on the opposite side was lifted.  It is tilted away from the house and the house had minimal damage so I am fine.  The house is good to 130mph code so I was not worried about that.  Four of the 20 royal leaves that were stripped from my two royals landed on the house.  This storm we first has the wind from the East as we were on the north side of the eyewall.  But as it passed we got the northern winds from the west side of the eyewall.  These northern winds are what appeared to do the most damage around the neighborhood, flatt3ening stop signs and uprooting and snapping dicot trees.   There are at least a dozen snapped dicots behind my house in the wooded area.   Here is what the northern wind side did to my C Fallaensis

before:

 

after with a closeup to show leaves on the north side being folded into the crown. 

The good part is the bud remains open and the newest leaves and spear have not been damaged as in sabal causiarum.  I always wondered why some in habitat pics tended to have more sparse crowns, they see lots of wind and that opens up the crowns and causes leaf loss.  I have zero worries that this one will not recover fully in time.  12 feet from it I have my baby fallaensis planted last summer.  It was undamaged in wind and is opening a new leaf.  All my small palms are looking good, not much damage at all.

 

[sonoranfans]

11 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

That royal is like a great big middle finger at the great god Huracan!

yep its already opened a new leaf, big middle finger indeed.  Both my royals have opened new leaves since the storm.  the leaf stems broke off. no crownshaft came down during the storm.  Now those are starting to shed.  

[sonoranfans]

11 hours ago, Jeff zone 8 N.C. said:

Hate to see that but at least you live in a place where you can grow those beautiful palms to begin with and where they will regrow fast. I often think that when something bad like that happens it may also bring some as yet unrealized benefits.

Yeah I am getting used to it as this is the 3rd hurricane force winds since 2017.  Very strange that it was 80 years before 2017 since the previous hurricane hit my area and the last major hurricane was 1921.  I have had a good run here getting palms established,  and I am too old to feel sorry for myself over my garden.  Im just putting this out there so people can know what to expect.  All palms will be damaged and that damage will depend on how exposed and tall they are.  The other lesson is good root growth and wide watering away from the trunk area leads to strong roots that resist tilting.  Irrigation Drippers are great in clayish soil, but they are going to be a problem in sandy soil in hurricane country.  They just cut out a 30' +washie hybrid (filabusta) a few houses down as it had heavily tilted towards the neighbors house and close enough to hit.  WHen a palm is tilted the roots opposite the tilt direction are the ones damaged as they mechanically resist the tilt most.  Same side roots are not really involved.   On that washie the direction opposite the tilt direction has roots lifted but the driveway was only about 4 feet away (no roots under there).  I never worry about palms lifting concrete, never seen that here and we have loads of palms in my area.  But roots needed to prevent being knocked over require room to be strong against tilting/falling over.   

[sonoranfans]

15 hours ago, Tracy said:

Ouch...I hope this is the end of the hurricane season for you.  Unfortunately there is no assurance as to what future hurricane seasons will bring.  The good news for you seems to be that the extent of your damage was property.  Plants we can regrow...other losses cannot be replaced. 

Funny that I knew the storm was coming and I sat out in the yard moving hte adirondack chair around just enjoying my time in the environment. I knew it would change and I was prepared for worse.  Everything will have to grow taller to have the crowns regrow, that I do not like but that is what you get here, fast growth.  I have gotten tired of things putting on 7-10 more feet of height to regrow crowns after a hurricane.  So I now have to feed and water the smaller palms so they can fill the space.  But really you are right, kids and grand kids are doing great so I really have little to be upset about.  I have grown 6 different gardens, 2 with mostly palms.  Every garden is a journey with bumps, I now am going to have room to plant my (BxJ)xJ from patrick and other containers I have.  I may lose a few mature palms but mostly they will recover.  The county is taking away the debris and I will cut down(3) palms as of now so the expenses have been minor.  

[sonoranfans]

My (used to be) ~30' livistona decora had a big comeover including the bud, bent down.  I could not find a good before

here is the after.  10' Shorter L. chinensis clump of 4 was not damaged.

 

this is the second consecutive time(IAN 2022) this palm has had its spear bundle bent down.  It just got done recovering from IAN and down she goes.  

[sonoranfans]

this was a nice teddy, the grow point containing 5 leaves and spears was beheaded.  Bye bye teddy.  I planted out (2) 10 gallon teddies earlier this summer.  This spot was open to eastern winds across the lake, bad spot for a teddy.

[James B]

So sorry to see. I really hope your Becarriophoenix makes it! 

[DoomsDave]

1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

yep its already opened a new leaf, big middle finger indeed.  Both my royals have opened new leaves since the storm.  the leaf stems broke off. no crownshaft came down during the storm.  Now those are starting to shed.  

This illustrates how some palms can evolve to survive in storm prone areas, compared to those that haven't. Many Syagrus, for example, get THRASHED in storms. The big exception, from what I've heard, is Caribbean native S. amara. The others, from inland sou-ha-merica, no so bueno.

[sonoranfans]

22 hours ago, James B said:

So sorry to see. I really hope your Becarriophoenix makes it! 

two of the three will make it no doubt.  The biggest most unprotected one is opening up a spear last few days, all is green.  I do have one that looks pretty bad, but if I remove some bent spears that are over the grow point I think it will recover in time.  My BA have huge root systems so they can uptake nutrients faster than palms that have tilt damage or less extensive root systems.  They and they still have green leaves, just bent down to the horizontal or over the bud in one case.  I have a couple taller (2-30'') C. Oliviformis that have trunks mildly bent by wind.  No root lifting but the trunks are now a bit curved.  They were relatvely protected, the house and other palms.  I am thinking they are a potential risk for snapping if they are not protected at cat 2 winds.  The wind that did the bending was from the north and the house was between them and the wind except over 16' there is no house(1 story) to protect them.  My archies(maxima, myolensis) were next to the kentiopsis had some visible bending of the crownshafts and spear, but I expect the will be ok.  Interestingly next to them 15' away was a taller 30' A. alexandre triple that was more exposed and showed notably less damage.  The archies are smaller in crown width/size than C Oliviformis and toyals etc.  I found it interesting that the taller more exposed triple fared better in the wind coming from the north over the house.  The spacing on my triple is about 30" in a triangle space center to center so they have less root competition than a closer triple.  MY hypothesis is that this lower competition leads to stronger roots for each palm int he triple.  The smaller crowns of archies does appear to be an advantage and planting multiples seems to make sense for both wind and cold protection.

[Merlyn]

1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

I found it interesting that the taller more exposed triple fared better in the wind coming from the north over the house.  The spacing on my triple is about 30" in a triangle space center to center so they have less root competition than a closer triple.  MY hypothesis is that this lower competition leads to stronger roots for each palm int he triple.  The smaller crowns of archies does appear to be an advantage and planting multiples seems to make sense for both wind and cold protection.

I'd agree with that hypothesis.  I'd also guess that additional clearance means that wind can get in between the trunks and fronds a bit easier, probably leading to less torque on each trunk.  I planted two Alfredii triples, one in the front and one in the back yards.  The front yard is a sort of squashed triangle with 5' spacing at the back and 3' spacing for the front/center one, if that makes sense.  I don't expect the trunks to ever touch.  The backyard one is about 8" spacing, so theoretically the trunks will start pushing each other apart as they get bigger.  It may end up a disaster or look like a monster cocos triple...I'll find out in ~5 years! 

[sonoranfans]

17 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

I'd agree with that hypothesis.  I'd also guess that additional clearance means that wind can get in between the trunks and fronds a bit easier, probably leading to less torque on each trunk.  I planted two Alfredii triples, one in the front and one in the back yards.  The front yard is a sort of squashed triangle with 5' spacing at the back and 3' spacing for the front/center one, if that makes sense.  I don't expect the trunks to ever touch.  The backyard one is about 8" spacing, so theoretically the trunks will start pushing each other apart as they get bigger.  It may end up a disaster or look like a monster cocos triple...I'll find out in ~5 years! 

If you take care of an alfredii it will have thick trunks,  Even myt smallest of 3 has a 30" caliper trunk at the base under the leaf bases.  I have generally considered crown width as an indicator of how close to plant to prevent them slapping each others trunks constantly in wind.  Alfredii 5' apart with 20' long leaves will be very interesting.  Oh and I agtree merlyn that a little spacing reduces overall air drag, no doubt.  IF the wind cant get in between those crowns, more leverage will be put on the roots.

[D. Morrowii]

@sonoranfans thanks for making the effort and posting your observations. Certainly some good info there to consider. 

[Bkue]

10 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

If you take care of an alfredii it will have thick trunks,  Even myt smallest of 3 has a 30" caliper trunk at the base under the leaf bases.  I have generally considered crown width as an indicator of how close to plant to prevent them slapping each others trunks constantly in wind.  Alfredii 5' apart with 20' long leaves will be very interesting.  Oh and I agtree merlyn that a little spacing reduces overall air drag, no doubt.  IF the wind cant get in between those crowns, more leverage will be put on the roots.

Feel bad about this. I assumed you were in Orlando. Looks like palmetto / Bradenton area. If you need any roofing help I can assist. Good luck with everything. Hopefully it all rebounds. 

[Erik]

My Milton report:

I'm in north Sarasota, a bit east of the SRQ airport and north of the Bobby Jones Golf Course. Eye went over us. SRQ ananemeter broke at 102 mph wind, and they guess wind was >120 mph; damaged airport roof. So I figure about that here. 

And: my palms are fine. I was worried about a tall, mature queen palm but it was fine. Broke one frond of Wodyetia. Bismarckia and Cocos were staked with t-posts and tied. Given that the t-posts bent, I figure they took the force as the trees themselves were fine. I had pruned fronds before, but not total. Other palms are small, no no worries.

In my neighborhood, queen palms fared worse, although so many were taken out by Ian in 2022 that only the strongest (like mine) were around for Milton. Still, I would advise against queen palms. Tall Phoenix, Sabal palmetto, royal palms within a few blocks walk were fine. 

[donalt]

Sonoranfans: your palms, though damaged, look quite healthy and should be ok in time. how old is your alfredii? it has a nice clean trunk. any tips on how to manicure that palm (I have them and they are beauties but I'd like to remove some of the lower boots.)

 

[Merlyn]

@donalt I think @sonoranfans said that the old frond bases became self-cleaning after a while.  I have 5 Alfredii a bit bigger than yours, with one of them definitely trunking...if I removed the bases.  I haven't tried it on mine yet, mostly because I am swamped with the rest of the ~1000 plantings in my yard.  When I cleaned up a stout Bottle a while back I used a razor knife and a pair of sharp shears (Wiss/Crescent CW7T) and just carefully snipped the couple of remaining fibers holding on the old boot.  It was tedious, but the actual shears/scissors was much better than chewing at it with a pair of bypass pruners.

[sonoranfans]

19 hours ago, donalt said:

Sonoranfans: your palms, though damaged, look quite healthy and should be ok in time. how old is your alfredii? it has a nice clean trunk. any tips on how to manicure that palm (I have them and they are beauties but I'd like to remove some of the lower boots.)

 

yep as merlyn says the boots come off by themselves and the trunks are most smooth when that happens.  My dog ripped a few boots off that were close to coming off and the trunk was not as smooth.   I personally would not take a saw or shear to them, just make sure the trunks get wet every couple days when its warm to help the digestion of dead material by microbes.  My take is the dead fiber rots with moisture(like mulch) and the keafbase weight will overcome the minimal resistance as they rot.  They are smooth but the trunk surface is undulated, I love the look.  My BA is was planted out late summer 2010, then transplanted after two months since I though it was too close to the fence.  That same december it took a good freeze burn, frost at 28 and lost most of its green leaf matter.  They are more fragile to frost as young seedlings.  Here is a closeup of the trunk w/undulations:

 

 

 

[donalt]

gorgeous!! I get it, let the boots "soften", loosen, and they take them carefully....yes that trunk is awesome. I do have trunking on mine, and just have to be patient