Dioon spinulosum Help

[ahosey01]

I know nothing about cycads but my wife just came home with a Dioon spinulosum with a foot-ish tall caudex.

Sun or shade?  Irrigate or don't?  Let my kids eat the cones or stop them?

Just kidding on that last part.  Will take any other info you have.

[hbernstein]

1 hour ago, ahosey01 said:

I know nothing about cycads but my wife just came home with a Dioon spinulosum with a foot-ish tall caudex.

Sun or shade?  Irrigate or don't?  Let my kids eat the cones or stop them?

Just kidding on that last part.  Will take any other info you have.

• Bright light to sun with some relief from full sun, all day. Likes warmth.
• Slightly moist soil, can take more water when bright and hot. Can take a bit of dryness occasionally, too.
• Depends on whether you like your kids (KIDDING)! 😉
• Just remember, it's a pokey plant that needs some room!

[hbernstein]

Also, like just about all cycads, needs good drainage.

[happypalms]

Shade is best  for them even deep shade. In sunny hot positions they yellow a bit too much. I have over two dozen in my garden in various places. All different colours due to the sun and shade. Good drainage very dry tolerant and don’t plant near pathways or access areas.

[Merlyn]

I agree with @hbernstein, I have one with ~3 feet of trunk in full blazing sun and 7 or 8 other smaller ones in varying segrees of shade up to full shade.  They grow faster in full sun, but are more pale green.  In full shade I get maybe 1 flush per year but they are deep green.  I am sure the relentless humidity and afternoon summer thunderstorms help them tolerate full sun here.  AM sun and PM shade might be a better bet if you don't have the humidity and rain to keep the afternoons cool(er).  

Good drainage is important for most cycads.  Spinulosum, Mejiae and Rzedowskii seem to tolerate fairly rich soil in wet areas, but that's also with pure sand + organics mixed in.  I'd imagine that clay could hold too much water and might need amending to drain better.  Hopefully that makes sense.

[Merlyn]

@ahosey01 I'm not sure if low temperatures are a problem for you in Brownsville.  For reference, my 15 Spinulosum have taken temps down to 24.4F with frost and only had leaf burn.  They seem mostly ok above about 28, even out in the open with frost.  I haven't seen any damage above freezing, even with frost.

One nice thing about Spinulosum is that they are spiny, but not aggressively skin-shredding.  My biggest one has fronds across where I mow, and it's never bitten me.  They do get big though, 10-12 feet diameter if you don't prune.  But you can prune off the older fronds for clearance without a lot of risk of infection.  Here's my biggest one, with Alfredii fronds coming over the path on the right:

[ahosey01]

3 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@ahosey01 I'm not sure if low temperatures are a problem for you in Brownsville.  For reference, my 15 Spinulosum have taken temps down to 24.4F with frost and only had leaf burn.  They seem mostly ok above about 28, even out in the open with frost.  I haven't seen any damage above freezing, even with frost.

One nice thing about Spinulosum is that they are spiny, but not aggressively skin-shredding.  My biggest one has fronds across where I mow, and it's never bitten me.  They do get big though, 10-12 feet diameter if you don't prune.  But you can prune off the older fronds for clearance without a lot of risk of infection.  Here's my biggest one, with Alfredii fronds coming over the path on the right:

As far as I'm aware the coldest we've been since 1989 was 24-25F in 2021 (I wasn't here).  There is a decade-old cook pine down the way from my house that looks perfectly fine, so I suspect the microclimate where I'm at might even be slightly warmer.  I don't think temps will be an issue - bigger thing for me is I just don't know jack about growing cycads lol

[Merlyn]

1 hour ago, ahosey01 said:

As far as I'm aware the coldest we've been since 1989 was 24-25F in 2021 (I wasn't here).  There is a decade-old cook pine down the way from my house that looks perfectly fine, so I suspect the microclimate where I'm at might even be slightly warmer.  I don't think temps will be an issue - bigger thing for me is I just don't know jack about growing cycads lol

Hah, well I didn't either when I started my garden.    Now I have ~265 cycads in the ground and ~300 palms.  Effectively you'd treat the "water tolerant" cycad species more or less like a typical palm.  They have the same water needs and nutrient deficiencies as a palm, and take the same fertilizer...more or less.  Cycads are definitely not like an Archontophoenix or Licuala, I'm not aware of any "semi-aquatic" species.  So avoid any planting spots where they'd have permanently wet feet, and preferably pick a spot that is somewhat more dry in the winter.  Spinulosum are fairly water tolerant, you just don't want it in a low spot that collects water all the time.

There are some cycads that absolutely hate water, because they've adapted to not-quite-desert conditions.  In particular the "South African Blues" all have a tendency to rot if they get wet when cold.  Their native habitat is something like 10-15" of rain per year.  I've found they do fine in pots here, but nearly 100% mortality rate in the ground...primarly from root rot after winter.

[ahosey01]

1 hour ago, Merlyn said:

Hah, well I didn't either when I started my garden.    Now I have ~265 cycads in the ground and ~300 palms.  Effectively you'd treat the "water tolerant" cycad species more or less like a typical palm.  They have the same water needs and nutrient deficiencies as a palm, and take the same fertilizer...more or less.  Cycads are definitely not like an Archontophoenix or Licuala, I'm not aware of any "semi-aquatic" species.  So avoid any planting spots where they'd have permanently wet feet, and preferably pick a spot that is somewhat more dry in the winter.  Spinulosum are fairly water tolerant, you just don't want it in a low spot that collects water all the time.

There are some cycads that absolutely hate water, because they've adapted to not-quite-desert conditions.  In particular the "South African Blues" all have a tendency to rot if they get wet when cold.  Their native habitat is something like 10-15" of rain per year.  I've found they do fine in pots here, but nearly 100% mortality rate in the ground...primarly from root rot after winter.

I don't have enough space for 600 of anything in my garden LOL but I did buy a couple more cycads today.  Will plant this weekend.

[Merlyn]

14 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

I don't have enough space for 600 of anything in my garden LOL but I did buy a couple more cycads today.  Will plant this weekend.

In my experience, the only cycads that you have to be *really* careful about planting location are some of the Encephalartos like Arenarius, Trispinosus, Lehmannii, Longifolius, Horridus, and sometimes Transvenosus, Altensteinii and Natalensis.  Those are really touchy to excess water. 

What other stuff did you buy? 

[ahosey01]

1 minute ago, Merlyn said:

In my experience, the only cycads that you have to be *really* careful about planting location are some of the Encephalartos like Arenarius, Trispinosus, Lehmannii, Longifolius, Horridus, and sometimes Transvenosus, Altensteinii and Natalensis.  Those are really touchy to excess water. 

What other stuff did you buy? 

Just a couple typical ones... Dioon edule and Zamia furfuracea.  Would really like to find a coontie or two and maybe a Cycas thouarsii.

[Merlyn]

1 minute ago, ahosey01 said:

Just a couple typical ones... Dioon edule and Zamia furfuracea.  Would really like to find a coontie or two and maybe a Cycas thouarsii.

Gotcha.  Edule can do sun or shade here, but probably best in more sun.  Furfuracea is similar, but best in a bit of shade.  Thouarsii are great too, and probably full sun for you.  All are reasonably water tolerant, just not in a permanently wet area.

[mnorell]

I believe D. spinulosum is a denizen of seasonally wet/dry forests in Mexico, I have grown them in a few different climates and in the Florida Keys they grew fine in sun, part sun, or shade, with little attention. Got thrown around for 24 hours in the ocean waters (like a washing machine more or less) during Irma and flung around our property...but I located them and replanted them...they did just fine. I grow them here now in the Palm Springs area and exposed leaves will blanche under too much sun, but they will survive it. They look their best in partial/dappled or full shade, where they will really stretch out. There are specimens in our neighborhood here under trees that look fantastic. Dioon edule takes quite a bit of sun here without problems, and Zamia furfuracea and Z. floridana are two that will endure lots and lots of sun here in the desert. So most cycads shouldn't be a problem in Brownsville at all under a wide variety of exposures, since you have a good amount of humidity and passing cloud-cover there. As far as cold-hardiness, I think you don't have much to worry about. If you have a big cold-wave heading your way, just pile dirt or mulch over the central trunk and growing-point and it should protect it. Many cycads contain primarily starch in their trunks, so they tend not to suffer as much in light/modest freezes as plants that are filled with water...for obvious reasons. I grew quite a few cycads while living in southern Mississippi and the only species I lost was a young Cycas thouarsii, which is quite a tender one. One that did remarkably well even in heavy freezes for me there was Ceratozamia latifolia, a really beautiful species that thrived for me under live oaks and came back after a number of freezes including one to 13F.