Sabal roseii and "big floppy" 5 gallon

[Joe palma]

Some good sized 5 gallon Sabal roseii and "big floppy" (hybrid between S. maritima and texana?). $55 and $50 respectively.

Thanks 
Joe

[Joe palma]

"big floppy" on left and roseii on the right

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

@Joe palma Never heard of this hybrid. Very intrigued if you could get a colder hardy Maritima. Where did this hybrid come from ? Any pics of the parents ? I would buy these in a heartbeat if I lived near by haha what a steal ! 

T J 

[Swolte]

Hey Joe, interested in the Rosei.  Do you ship? Can't seem to msg you.

[Joe palma]

16 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

@Joe palma Never heard of this hybrid. Very intrigued if you could get a colder hardy Maritima. Where did this hybrid come from ? Any pics of the parents ? I would buy these in a heartbeat if I lived near by haha what a steal ! 

T J 

Hey TJ,
I dont know where the origianl hybrid came from. There was a few posts back in 2016 that discussed it.
I got the seeds from Dennis Willoby (sp?) who lived down in Pacific Beach. Not sure where he got the plant/seeds to plant it. He has since sold the property and I dont know who owns it now, so no pics of parent.

-Joe

[Joe palma]

13 hours ago, Swolte said:

Hey Joe, interested in the Rosei.  Do you ship? Can't seem to msg you.

Hey Steven,
I'm working on shipping things now. Contact me through my direct email:   discoveryislandpalms@yahoo.com
760-300-7339

Thx
-Joe

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

8 hours ago, Joe palma said:

I'm working on shipping things now

Wow Joe this is great news , You have so much good stuff for unbeatable prices. Count me in ! 

T J 

[Fusca]

27 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Wow Joe this is great news , You have so much good stuff for unbeatable prices. Count me in ! 

T J 

@Joe palma does have a bunch of good stuff!  I visited in 2021 and picked up a couple of palms that I planted here and are doing well - blue Copernicia prunifera and Brahea super silver.  Now that I have a better idea of what grows well here I need to make another visit when I go see my cousins in Ventura. 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

17 minutes ago, Fusca said:

blue Copernicia prunifera

Palm is looking good! 

T J 

[Swolte]

Emailed! 😊

[Sabal King]

On 11/7/2024 at 11:57 AM, Joe palma said:

Some good sized 5 gallon Sabal roseii and "big floppy" (hybrid between S. maritima and texana?). $55 and $50 respectively.

Thanks 
Joe

Hybrid between maritima and mexicana?  How in the world is that even possible and what is your evidence of this hybrid?  Wondering how a carribean palm (Jamaica) makes it to hybridize with mexicana….  We need to be careful but to be honest, this isn’t a real hybrid, sorry.  I mean this with all due respect.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

@Sabal King I definitely understand the skepticism. To say its impossible seems a little far fetched. Palms of the same genus absolutely have a shot of hybridization. Maybe not in a natural setting for these two but possible in someone's private garden. I have a couple hybrids that don't make alot of sense. 

T J 

 

[Sabal King]

5 minutes ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

@Sabal King I definitely understand the skepticism. To say its impossible seems a little far fetched. Palms of the same genus absolutely have a shot of hybridization. Maybe not in a natural setting for these two but possible in someone's private garden. I have a couple hybrids that don't make alot of sense. 

T J 

 

Again with all due respect, sabal hybrids are so rare, for a reason.  Sabals don’t readily hybridize, they just don’t not to mention Sabals that aren’t even anywhere near eachother. Nice got 150 Sabals on my property and they aren’t readily producing hybrids.

it’s a cool story but I’m sorry it’s not reality.  The cost to actually sequence palms we actually think are hybrids (birmingham, blackburniana, palmetto x causiarum) is so expensive regardless.

heck I’d love to know more about defuniak springs and Louisiana as well while we’re at it.

its not skepticism it’s reality.  More importantly as a grower myself it’s really important we growers take selling and provenance very seriously.

[Joe palma]

Don Hodel is one who suggested it is possible that big floppy is a hybrid with S. maritima, I suspect he knows a bit more about palms than you do Sabal king. Here is an excerpt from his Sabal PSSC journal article #190:

"When I began my Sabal investigations this past winter I noticed a somewhat distinctive species at the Fullerton Arboretum, The Los Angeles County Arboretum and Botanic Garden, The Huntington, Elysian Park, and Ralph Velez’s garden in Westminster that I referred to as Sabal ‘Big Floppy’ (which see under “Other Entities”) because it is distinctive in its large, coarse, leaf blades with a glaucous bloom and wide, soft, exceedingly droopy or floppy segment tips. It is a rather handsome plant that is somewhat similar in leaf to plants of Sabal maritima at Fairchild Tropical Botanic Garden that were collected in Jamaica, thus I feel that ‘Big Floppy’ may be a hybrid, with Sabal maritima as one of its parents."

[Sabal King]

12 minutes ago, Joe palma said:

Don Hodel is one who suggested it is possible that big floppy is a hybrid with S. maritima, I suspect he knows a bit more about palms than you do Sabal king. Here is an excerpt from his Sabal PSSC journal article #190:

"When I began my Sabal investigations this past winter I noticed a somewhat distinctive species at the Fullerton Arboretum, The Los Angeles County Arboretum and Botanic Garden, The Huntington, Elysian Park, and Ralph Velez’s garden in Westminster that I referred to as Sabal ‘Big Floppy’ (which see under “Other Entities”) because it is distinctive in its large, coarse, leaf blades with a glaucous bloom and wide, soft, exceedingly droopy or floppy segment tips. It is a rather handsome plant that is somewhat similar in leaf to plants of Sabal maritima at Fairchild Tropical Botanic Garden that were collected in Jamaica, thus I feel that ‘Big Floppy’ may be a hybrid, with Sabal maritima as one of its parents."

again with all due respect, read his words..  might, maybe, who knows, potentially aren't convincing and not something we should be marketing and selling.  It's not good for the trade, but good luck to ya.

[Fusca]

54 minutes ago, Sabal King said:

again with all due respect, read his words..  might, maybe, who knows, potentially aren't convincing and not something we should be marketing and selling.  It's not good for the trade, but good luck to ya.

With all due respect, read Joe's words in the original post.   He doesn't claim it's definitely a hybrid but in parentheses he writes "Hybrid between S. maritima and texana?" with a question mark.  He's not trying to deceive anyone and he's not overpricing the possible hybrid.  I'm not sure why you're attacking his character.

[Joe palma]

1 hour ago, Fusca said:

With all due respect, read Joe's words in the original post.   He doesn't claim it's definitely a hybrid but in parentheses he writes "Hybrid between S. maritima and texana?" with a question mark.  He's not trying to deceive anyone and he's not overpricing the possible hybrid.  I'm not sure why you're attacking his character.

Thanks Jon

I clearly had the question mark in there and never suggested I knew exactly what it is.

What I will say is the palm I got the seeds from is fully considered to be "big floppy", whatever that turns out to be.
Don Hodel had seen this very palm on several occasions and agreed it had all the characteristics of the big floppy's he had seen before and considered it to be such. 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

6 hours ago, Joe palma said:

thus I feel that ‘Big Floppy’ may be a hybrid, with Sabal maritima as one of its parents."

I'm definitely intrigued whatever it may be if it has the look of Maritima and hardiness of Texana im in ! 

T J 

[Meangreen94z]

On 11/9/2024 at 7:08 PM, Sabal King said:

Again with all due respect, sabal hybrids are so rare, for a reason.  Sabals don’t readily hybridize, they just don’t not to mention Sabals that aren’t even anywhere near eachother. Nice got 150 Sabals on my property and they aren’t readily producing hybrids.

it’s a cool story but I’m sorry it’s not reality.  The cost to actually sequence palms we actually think are hybrids (birmingham, blackburniana, palmetto x causiarum) is so expensive regardless.

heck I’d love to know more about defuniak springs and Louisiana as well while we’re at it.

its not skepticism it’s reality.  More importantly as a grower myself it’s really important we growers take selling and provenance very seriously.

You got into palms in the last 3-5 years?  I’ve noticed a pattern that if it’s not something you are selling yourself, you try to discredit it. 

[Meangreen94z]

On 11/7/2024 at 11:59 AM, Joe palma said:

"big floppy" on left and roseii on the right

If you are willing to ship the rosei I’m definitely interested.

[ahosey01]

On 11/10/2024 at 3:01 PM, Sabal King said:

again with all due respect, read his words..  might, maybe, who knows, potentially aren't convincing and not something we should be marketing and selling.  It's not good for the trade, but good luck to ya.

I don't mean to be an ass but I'm not sure you have the required experience or reputation as a grower to criticize the guy who runs Discovery Island Palms and has sent thousands of weird and beautiful palms out in to the world.  His stuff is growing all around the U.S.  Years ago when I first got into palms I met guys who had been growing stuff they bought from him for years already.  Hell, it looks like he joined this board 20 years ago.

There is something called the Dunning-Kruger effect which you might want to be careful to avoid.

[Joe palma]

42 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

I don't mean to be an ass but I'm not sure you have the required experience or reputation as a grower to criticize the guy who runs Discovery Island Palms and has sent thousands of weird and beautiful palms out in to the world.  His stuff is growing all around the U.S.  Years ago when I first got into palms I met guys who had been growing stuff they bought from him for years already.  Hell, it looks like he joined this board 20 years ago.

There is something called the Dunning-Kruger effect which you might want to be careful to avoid.

Thanks Adam and Daniel as well!

I appreciate you guys vouching for me. Didn't mean to open up a can of worms here.....

I'm working on shipping and will update shortly......thx!

[Sabal King]

Not trying to beat anyone up here so apologies if that is what came across and certainly didn't mean to open up a can of worms either.  Good luck to ya!

[CoconutGambler352]

On 11/7/2024 at 12:59 PM, Joe palma said:

"big floppy" on left and roseii on the right

Could I see closer photos of the big floppy hybrid please 

[redbeard917]

On 11/10/2024 at 3:48 PM, Joe palma said:

Don Hodel is one who suggested it is possible that big floppy is a hybrid with S. maritima, I suspect he knows a bit more about palms than you do Sabal king. Here is an excerpt from his Sabal PSSC journal article #190:

"When I began my Sabal investigations this past winter I noticed a somewhat distinctive species at the Fullerton Arboretum, The Los Angeles County Arboretum and Botanic Garden, The Huntington, Elysian Park, and Ralph Velez’s garden in Westminster that I referred to as Sabal ‘Big Floppy’ (which see under “Other Entities”) because it is distinctive in its large, coarse, leaf blades with a glaucous bloom and wide, soft, exceedingly droopy or floppy segment tips. It is a rather handsome plant that is somewhat similar in leaf to plants of Sabal maritima at Fairchild Tropical Botanic Garden that were collected in Jamaica, thus I feel that ‘Big Floppy’ may be a hybrid, with Sabal maritima as one of its parents."

"I feel that X may be Y..."

Science!

[Joe palma]

On 12/7/2024 at 7:21 PM, CoconutGambler352 said:

Could I see closer photos of the big floppy hybrid please