European fan palm new growth white and not opening

[3beerslater]

It's been stuck like this for a month or two. It's been planted for about 3 years now and receives daily water via irrigation system. I can't tell if its nutrient issue, bugs, disease, or just dead. 

 

Thanks

[SeanK]

Looks Good. Hold the spear against one of the petioles. Mark the spear height on the petiole with a permanent marker. 

Check it in two weeks. 

[Merlyn]

@3beerslater it looks like the fronds have been steadily getting smaller and smaller for at least a year, maybe more.  Can you post a photo from a bigger distance to show the whole palm?  Chamaerops are pretty tough palm in FL so poor growth is surprising.  The smaller fronds and waviness/distortion could be a boron deficiency.  Chamaerops generally are fine without water in FL, so too much water could be a bad thing for root rot. 

A couple of questions:

• What do you use for fertilizer?  Typically a big handful of Palmgain or Florikan 8-2-12 is a good choice, 4x per year for a palm that size.
• What general area of Florida?  Coastal coral soil is very different than Clermont clay or insand rich sand.

The whitish color on the new spears is fairly normal.  They tend to be chalky white when growing out.  Marking the new spears horizontally is a good idea, just be careful of the thorns!

[ahosey01]

Root rot maybe.  You don't need to water these.

[Fusca]

@3beerslater, like @Merlyn stated the white on new growth is pretty normal.  As @ahosey01 said they don't need much irrigation once they're established.  Is the irrigation from an overhead sprinkler?  This species does not like city water in its crown and might cause spear-pull.

[3beerslater]

@Merlyn Sunniland 6-1-8 fertilizer and panhandle about 20 miles from the beach. I have about ~6 inches of top soil and then its mostly sand filler. 

 

@Fusca irrigation is from well water through a bubbler that was placed near the plant by the landscaper who installed both. 

[3beerslater]

@ahosey01 Do you think root rot could be what's damaging my Sylvester palm too? It also has a bubbler for irrigation. It's been planted for about 2 years and both winters were very harsh and it's never really recovered. New growth this year came out brown as well. 

[Looking Glass]

2 hours ago, Merlyn said:

@3beerslater it looks like the fronds have been steadily getting smaller and smaller for at least a year, maybe more.  Can you post a photo from a bigger distance to show the whole palm?  Chamaerops are pretty tough palm in FL so poor growth is surprising.  The smaller fronds and waviness/distortion could be a boron deficiency.  Chamaerops generally are fine without water in FL, so too much water could be a bad thing for root rot. 

A couple of questions:

• What do you use for fertilizer?  Typically a big handful of Palmgain or Florikan 8-2-12 is a good choice, 4x per year for a palm that size.
• What general area of Florida?  Coastal coral soil is very different than Clermont clay or insand rich sand.

The whitish color on the new spears is fairly normal.  They tend to be chalky white when growing out.  Marking the new spears horizontally is a good idea, just be careful of the thorns!

Yeah.   I was thinking feed boron and manganese, hit with high end palm fertilizer, cut watering way back, and see what happens.   

 

8 hours ago, 3beerslater said:

It's been stuck like this for a month or two. It's been planted for about 3 years now and receives daily water via irrigation system. I can't tell if its nutrient issue, bugs, disease, or just dead. 

 

Thanks

These don’t need much extra water in Florida.   None during the summer rains is fine.  Once or twice a week in the hot, dry spring is plenty.  Less in winter.  The main issue with these in Florida is that they grow too fast and straight up, so they don’t have as much character/looks as they do out west in more desert-like conditions. 

[Phoenikakias]

3 hours ago, 3beerslater said:

@ahosey01 Do you think root rot could be what's damaging my Sylvester palm too? It also has a bubbler for irrigation. It's been planted for about 2 years and both winters were very harsh and it's never really recovered. New growth this year came out brown as well. 

Omg, what do you mean by harsh winter, how deeply did temperature sink? 

[Merlyn]

@3beerslater I had a pretty bad cold front for Christmas 2022, and one cold weekend in mid January 2023.  I wouldn't think that either were cold enough to damage a Sylvestris, even if it was colder up in the panhandle.  But Tallahassee got down to a minimum of 19-20F with a high on Saturday 12/24 of only 38.  I could see cold damage on a Sylvester if you got anywhere close to that.

Are both palms in the grassy area?  I've used Sunniland 6-1-8 for 6+ years with no issues.  Sometimes grass fertilizer can screw up nutrient absorption for palms, due to extremely high nitrogen.  That's why normally it's a good idea to have a ~6 foot diameter mulch ring around any palms in grassy areas.

[3beerslater]

@MerlynYes both palms are in grassy areas. I have a spray person who comes once a month, so it could be that. The mule palms I have are also in grassy areas and they are thriving though. Here is a pic a bit further away and also underneath has black/brown coloring now.

@Phoenikakias It was 20-25 for 3 straight days about 2 months after planting this. Pipes and stuff were bursting all over town. 

I think it maybe over water or the grass fertilizer. I just hope the Sylvester is still alive after all the new growth this year came out brown. 

[sonoranfans]

I have never watered every day in florida.  Its humid so evaporation is slow mostly.  Grass doesnt need water every day either.  Looks like overwatering and yes there may be rot in the future if it hasnt started already.  Chamerops is a mediterranean palm, likes a drier environment than florida.  I irrigate 30 mins each station 2-3x a week.  The longer time is for deeper wetting of roots that palms have.  The short duration of 10 mins is for grass.  I grew chamaerops humilis(europpean fan palm) very successfully in the arizona desert with no overhead water.  And yes the sylvestris hate continually wet roots including heavy clay soil.  On my street one side is clay and one side is sand with P Sylvestris on each side.  All are on auto irrigation for grass its hard to believe they are the same species.  It is possible the sylvestris has had a pathogen attack as these are susceptible to a couple pathogens circulating in florida. 

[3beerslater]

@sonoranfans any hope the Sylvester can recover from root rot or anything I can do other than turn of the irrigation?

[Merlyn]

@3beerslater it could be the spray.  The chemicals that harm grass will also kill palms, so I *think* usually their broadleaf weedkillers are ok around palms.  But the high nitrogen that's good for grass can deplete palms of (in particular) potassium and calcium through what they call "nutrient antagonism."  Basically too much of one thing means the roots don't absorb the other thing:

You can see pictures of potassium deficiency here: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/EP269 and other common deficiencies here: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/EP273

Calcium deficiency can cause stunted and necrotic new growth.  It has to be really severe to cause necrosis.  So my guesses are:

• Too much watering on the Sylvestris and Chamaerops, possibly inducing some root rot.
• Being in the grassy area isn't great, as the grass eats up a lot of nutrients and can cause deficiencies in things like boron.
• The grass fertilizer spray is probably high in nitrogen to make the grass look nice, which can cause potassium and calcium deficiencies in palms.

One solution may be to put a ~6 foot diameter mulch ring around each palm.  The mulch breaks down and provides boron, and if the yard guy doesn't spray the mulch then the palm is more likely to get all the nutrients from your fertilizer.  One issue with Sylvesters is Lethal Bronzing, aka Texas Phoenix Palm Decline.  I'm not sure if it's in your area, but it's killing close to 100% of the Sylvesters and Dactylifera around the Orlando area right now.

If the new spear on your Sylvester grew out brown then it might have a fungal crown rot.  That's sometimes curable with hydrogen peroxide, Daconil, Mancozeb, or a copper-based fungicide.  I'd try lightly pulling upward on the new frond to see if it's loose.  If it's firm then squirt some hydrogen peroxide in the crown.  Beware the thorns.  If it bubbles up there's a crown fungal rot.  For that I do H2O2 and follow up in a couple of hours with Daconil.  Repeat 2x to 3x per week until the H2O2 no longer bubbles up.

[3beerslater]

@MerlynIt was loose and I pulled out the brown growth and cleaned it out a few weeks ago. I didn't use any chemicals though and will try that next. Thanks so much!

[Merlyn]

33 minutes ago, 3beerslater said:

@MerlynIt was loose and I pulled out the brown growth and cleaned it out a few weeks ago. I didn't use any chemicals though and will try that next. Thanks so much!

If the spear was sludgy or slimy then it was definitely a crown rot...usually a fungus.  H2O2 and Daconil are my go-to solutions for that.  Hydrogen peroxide is a great antifungal for palms and people, and Daconil is kind of sticky and stays in place on surfaces. 

[sonoranfans]

On 11/13/2024 at 10:13 AM, 3beerslater said:

@sonoranfans any hope the Sylvester can recover from root rot or anything I can do other than turn of the irrigation?

you can try reducing the water and look for a sign of recovery in spring.  If your soil is clayish these wont do well unless mounded during planting.  It looks quite stressed and has little foliage so it will not have a problem with water every 3-4 days when max temps are below 80-.  As top its survival, water at a lower rate till it gets hot in spring then every 2-3 days would be OK.  Again if your soil is clayish, it mau be a goner.  When a palm gets sick the most common mistake is to throw fertilizer at it.  I dont recommend it.  Nutrient deficiencies occur with rotted roots, adding fertilizer doesnt help those roots.  Be patient, spring will come soon enough.  

[Phoenikakias]

20 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

you can try reducing the water and look for a sign of recovery in spring.  If your soil is clayish these wont do well unless mounded during planting.  It looks quite stressed and has little foliage so it will not have a problem with water every 3-4 days when max temps are below 80-.  As top its survival, water at a lower rate till it gets hot in spring then every 2-3 days would be OK.  Again if your soil is clayish, it mau be a goner.  When a palm gets sick the most common mistake is to throw fertilizer at it.  I dont recommend it.  Nutrient deficiencies occur with rotted roots, adding fertilizer doesnt help those roots.  Be patient, spring will come soon enough.  

In my clayish, slopy, rocky terrain I hold sylvestris one of my most thirst palms not only in the Phoenix genus but generally in the family. It hates much more alkalinity and salt concentration than its warm temperate relatives, imo a solid indication of its tropical origin.

[sonoranfans]

8 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

In my clayish, slopy, rocky terrain I hold sylvestris one of my most thirst palms not only in the Phoenix genus but generally in the family. It hates much more alkalinity and salt concentration than its warm temperate relatives, imo a solid indication of its tropical origin.

your clay drains well just due to the slope, not the situation in florida clay with our 50+ inches of rainfall.