TOP 10 Most Popular Hardy Palms (THE LIST)

[Axel Amsterdam]

6 hours ago, jwitt said:

@UK_Palms

"The biggest one in London (River Gardens, Fulham) also survived the coldest temps on record in 1987. So they are clearly long term now that they have actually been planted properly and have got to decent sizes. And again, that is that fella"

I believe parts of London saw temps approaching zero or at least single digits. Not familiar enough where this palm is or the actual temperature seen.  But apparently it survived. What temperature do you think it saw?

This is the fulham CIDP, planted in the ‘80’s. Other CIDP’s, for example at the palm center and Kew, disappeared throughout cold winters in the 90’s and 2000’s. It was speculated that the vent behind the trunk blows warm air on this CIDP helping it to survive severe frosts. 

Having said that, many CIDP’s survived several cold winters in London during 2009-2012 including a well known specimen on a traffic roundabout near Lambeth bridge that had been growing there since the ‘90’s/early 2000’s. So at least the past 15 years have been mild enough for most CIDP’s in London. In a particular case i have seen two similar specimens next to each other in London, one died and one survived and grew very large (because the following winters were mild).

So the 2009-2012 winters were on the edge for some specimens and some London areas but not cold enough in general. 

 

[UK_Palms]

The all-time record low at St James Park was -10C / 14F back in January 1987. It has NEVER had single digits F going back over 100 years! Bearing in mind that station is located out in an open and exposed park though (a bit like Central Park in NYC), so at proper street level and in sheltered gardens in central London, I doubt it went much below -8.5C / 16-17F back then at worst.

You also have to factor in the increase in UHI over the past 37-38 years as well since that freeze event, which has probably added an additional 1C / 2F of protection at least! Maybe 2C / 4F of additional UHI protection since then given the size of London. Every house has central heating nowadays and there is so much energy output even compared to just 30 years ago. This may be partly evidenced by the fact that St James Park has not recorded a temperature below -5.3C / 22F since the 1987 freeze event. The UHI is colossal with the very centre of London being about 6-7C / 12F warmer on cold nights than the surrounding countryside on the outskirts of the city.

Heathrow airport actually only went down to -9.1C / 15.6F during the 1987 freeze event, despite being further inland and way out in the western suburbs where it gets a bit colder in winter anyway and there aren’t really any CIDP or Washies growing around there. The UHI definitely isn’t as strong as it is in central London and Heathrow is further inland from any coastal influence as well. Even last winter I remember seeing nights where St James Park went down to about 0C / 32F but Heathrow dropped to about -2C / 28F in that location. However Heathrow has a record low of -13.2C / 8F from January 1962, but again the UHI would have been a lot less 60+ years ago.

The River Gardens CIDP that survived the 1987 freeze when it was tiny. These photos were taken after the 22/23 freeze, which saw Heathrow record its coldest temperature in 35 years since the 1987 event. Damage is minimal, given its location in central London.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if other smaller CIDP’s existed around London but were knocked out by the 1987 freeze, with lows between 10-15F potentially. Obviously that Fulham one would have survived, but maybe others got knocked out. The main issue back then would have been any CIDP’s being too small to withstand a serious freeze, which is no longer the case as there are lots of big ones today, which no doubt would come through a repeat of 1987 at their size, especially given that the Fulham one survived when it was very small. I think most would sail through a repeat of 1987 at their size and escape defoliation. CIDP in general were not being planted on the mainland at all really until the year 2000 really. Most of the ones you see today were planted small around 2006-2009.

Regardless, the Fulham one is proof that they have withstood about -9C / 15F maybe during the record breaking 1987 freeze in London. The Fulham one maybe only had to deal with -8C / 17F though as it is right near the Thames river. I’m not convinced it can get that cold again though really in central London at least. Not with the added UHI nowadays, background warming form climate change and also that 1987 event had record low hPa temps that lined up perfectly in mid-January. Nowadays cold airmasses are heavily moderated by the warmer sea surface temps especially and there is nowhere near the same level of cold on the European continent to tap into, which was the case back in 1962 and 1987.

[CascadiaPalms]

20 hours ago, Xenon said:

I'd be completely relaxed at 20F here, not a care or doubt in the world 😆 

I do like the video editing and hype soundtrack 😎

I try and keep my palm videos short and exciting.  Glad you liked it.

[conceptualizeme]

What impresses me about that big and rather nice London CIDP is the freeze duration it was likely forced to endure in 1987 at a very small size with those drops to the mid teens in mind. From what I am seeing online; it would have likely endured 4 consecutive days of <32f temperatures with no breaks whilst there were back to back drops to at least the mid teens (15-18f as a rough guess) at night on the 12th-13th. The fifth day with a high below freezing happened maybe about a week afterwards, going off this station: http://nw3weather.co.uk/wxdataday.php/1000?vartype=tmax&year=1987&summary_type=0. It also shows a sixth day below freezing; although this did not happen at Kew, likely hovering just above zero.

For reference, with the Kew and St. James data in mind (5 highs below 32f in January with likely 4 consecutive), this is as almost as many daily highs below freezing in maybe 2 weeks during Jan 1987 compared to other cities elsewhere with marginal 10a areas I've looked at that have dropped to the teens before like Brownsville (6 times with 2 days consecutive max) or Tokyo (6 times nonconsecutive) have had in their entire documented history. Not too shocking, given the latitude.

Larger CIDPs to my knowledge have absolutely gotten through arguably far worse elsewhere and might survive OK on a repeat of this event; albeit completely deep fried (Dallas/Shreveport with similar immediate freeze length and lows around 0f, maybe El Paso 2011, and the one in a million Alamogordo, NM case too on sheer temperature), but for an at-the-time possibly unprotected infant CIDP enduring this long of a freeze duration, I can't help but be impressed.

The top graph was taken at Heathrow generally considered outside the UHI from my beloved Weatherspark so take it with a grain of salt, and the second one is from https://wansteadmeteo.com/2018/01/04/londons-january-extremes-since-1959/; no clue on where to find the raw St. James data but it probably comes from the Met Office archives if I were to guess. Oh and the Kew data is from http://journal.kewguild.org.uk/v10s92p608-All.pdf if you're interested.

Perhaps @UK_Palms has more data since he's far more familiar with the area. I too doubt something 1:1 with 1962-3 or 1987 will happen again that deep into London.

[UK_Palms]

@conceptualizeme Here is some data that I can pull for the 87’ freeze event showing maximums and minimums. As this was an easterly based event from the continent, which is what is required to get the coldest airmass and lowest temperatures into southern England, the more protected areas that had the mildest temps is consequently western Scotland. They were shielded from the airmass that came through Eastern Europe, Germany and France. However when it is an arctic blast from the north (which is more frequent) Scotland gets pretty cold up there, whereas southern England doesn’t really tap into much cold from northerly events. The 1987 event came right off the continent from the east.

12/01/1987 minima and maxima…

13/01/1987 minima and maxima…

 

According to this the lowest it got at St James Park was -9.0C / 15.8F, however my other source lists -10C / 14F, which was also the lowest ever temp recorded there. So there is some confusion about just how cold it actually got at SJP. I am certainly sceptical about the -10C now looking at it, especially since Heathrow didn’t get that cold during the 87’ event. It looks like it might have been a -9.0C minimum at SJP and -9.1C minimum at Heathrow. Looking at Wikipedia shows a false record minimum of -24C for Heathrow which is utter nonsense and 11C colder than the real figure. Not sure where that ludicrous -24C figure has come from. Heathrow's record minimum is -13.2C from January 1963 (62/63 winter being the coldest winter on record, whereas 87' was the worst freeze event). I will get the proper minimums for each London station tomorrow and the all-time minimums for them as well.

Anyway, direct data for St James Park is hard to get access to for whatever reason. But here’s the Heathrow data for January 1987. It is showing 2 back to back nights of -9C / 15F and one of the days had a max of -6C / 21F. These readings may be off by 0.1-0.2C potentially, but 90-95% accurate. I count about 9 consecutive days/nights or 220 hours below freezing during the peak of the event. 

 

So while the duration was similar to what Dallas experienced in February 2021, the outright minimums were nowhere near as bad (DFW had -18C to -19C / +2F to -2F in Dallas. Compare that to +10F to +15F for the majority of London in January 1987. If the 2021 Texas freeze happened a month earlier in mid-January (like London’s 1987 event) it would have been even worse with slightly longer nights (an hour more radiational cooling at night and an hour less of solar heating by day) and less sun intensity to aid with daytime recovery. So probably a -20C / -5F night in Dallas and a -12C / 10F day. Kind of fortunate it happened in mid-February instead of mid-January!

I had a somewhat heated exchange recently regarding growing CIDP in NYC and the northeast USA. This weekend it is forecasted to get pretty cold there already. -10C / 12F is expected on Sunday night. It will be interesting to see whether the Bellevue Central Park station registers a colder temperature than St James Park in London’s all time record minima (-10.0C or *-9.0C) from Jan 1987. 

[CascadiaPalms]

My follow up response.....can't wait to piss people off. 😀😁🌴

 

[Foxpalms]

18 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

@conceptualizeme Here is some data that I can pull for the 87’ freeze event showing maximums and minimums. As this was an easterly based event from the continent, which is what is required to get the coldest airmass and lowest temperatures into southern England, the more protected areas that had the mildest temps is consequently western Scotland. They were shielded from the airmass that came through Eastern Europe, Germany and France. However when it is an arctic blast from the north (which is more frequent) Scotland gets pretty cold up there, whereas southern England doesn’t really tap into much cold from northerly events. The 1987 event came right off the continent from the east.

12/01/1987 minima and maxima…

13/01/1987 minima and maxima…

 

According to this the lowest it got at St James Park was -9.0C / 15.8F, however my other source lists -10C / 14F, which was also the lowest ever temp recorded there. So there is some confusion about just how cold it actually got at SJP. I am certainly sceptical about the -10C now looking at it, especially since Heathrow didn’t get that cold during the 87’ event. It looks like it might have been a -9.0C minimum at SJP and -9.1C minimum at Heathrow. Looking at Wikipedia shows a false record minimum of -24C for Heathrow which is utter nonsense and 11C colder than the real figure. Not sure where that ludicrous -24C figure has come from. Heathrow's record minimum is -13.2C from January 1963 (62/63 winter being the coldest winter on record, whereas 87' was the worst freeze event). I will get the proper minimums for each London station tomorrow and the all-time minimums for them as well.

Anyway, direct data for St James Park is hard to get access to for whatever reason. But here’s the Heathrow data for January 1987. It is showing 2 back to back nights of -9C / 15F and one of the days had a max of -6C / 21F. These readings may be off by 0.1-0.2C potentially, but 90-95% accurate. I count about 9 consecutive days/nights or 220 hours below freezing during the peak of the event. 

 

So while the duration was similar to what Dallas experienced in February 2021, the outright minimums were nowhere near as bad (DFW had -18C to -19C / +2F to -2F in Dallas. Compare that to +10F to +15F for the majority of London in January 1987. If the 2021 Texas freeze happened a month earlier in mid-January (like London’s 1987 event) it would have been even worse with slightly longer nights (an hour more radiational cooling at night and an hour less of solar heating by day) and less sun intensity to aid with daytime recovery. So probably a -20C / -5F night in Dallas and a -12C / 10F day. Kind of fortunate it happened in mid-February instead of mid-January!

I had a somewhat heated exchange recently regarding growing CIDP in NYC and the northeast USA. This weekend it is forecasted to get pretty cold there already. -10C / 12F is expected on Sunday night. It will be interesting to see whether the Bellevue Central Park station registers a colder temperature than St James Park in London’s all time record minima (-10.0C or *-9.0C) from Jan 1987. 

@UK_Palms From what I've read -9c was the temp there, which was the all time record low for London St James park.

[Foxpalms]

On 11/27/2024 at 12:06 PM, Axel Amsterdam said:

This is the fulham CIDP, planted in the ‘80’s. Other CIDP’s, for example at the palm center and Kew, disappeared throughout cold winters in the 90’s and 2000’s. It was speculated that the vent behind the trunk blows warm air on this CIDP helping it to survive severe frosts. 

Having said that, many CIDP’s survived several cold winters in London during 2009-2012 including a well known specimen on a traffic roundabout near Lambeth bridge that had been growing there since the ‘90’s/early 2000’s. So at least the past 15 years have been mild enough for most CIDP’s in London. In a particular case i have seen two similar specimens next to each other in London, one died and one survived and grew very large (because the following winters were mild).

So the 2009-2012 winters were on the edge for some specimens and some London areas but not cold enough in general. 

 

The 2010 winter wasn't that bad in the city center for something like a canary island date palm.  The rest of the UK though especially further north was extremely cold. Driving up to Scotland that year -17c on the car thermometer around the hills in Derbyshire and all of Scotland was just covered in snow and ice. 10ft + icesicles had formed in certain mountain areas. Because of Richmond park, which is massive, Kew gardens (near the palm center) actually ends up being colder than the urban areas around Heathrow which are further away from centeral London.

[Las Palmas Norte]

3 hours ago, CascadiaPalms said:

My follow up response.....can't wait to piss people off. 😀😁🌴

 

🤣 That's hilarious. All the new enthusiasts will have renewed hope for what's now possible.

[CascadiaPalms]

44 minutes ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

🤣 That's hilarious. All the new enthusiasts will have renewed hope for what's now possible.

the keyword there is "possible" 😄😄

[UK_Palms]

4 hours ago, CascadiaPalms said:

My follow up response.....can't wait to piss people off. 😀😁🌴

 

 

I might be wrong, but I don't think anyone is growing Cocos Nucifera in zone 9 man! 🤣 I'm certainly yet to see a zone 9 true coconut that has survived more than 2 back to back winters. Correct me if wrong.

At a push, you may get them in some zone 10b areas in the mildest microclimates of southern California (without protection), but they are really zone 11a and up palms. They hate temps below 40F and a once a decade freeze down to 25-30F in zone 10b will knock them out.

I don't think they do very well in the 10b parts of Florida even and get knocked out every so often. They survive long term in the coastal areas around Miami, but that is 11a. I really think 10b/11a is the requirement for Cocos Nucifera. Otherwise you are protecting it every other year to keep it alive even in 10a.

[Xenon]

4 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

I don't think they do very well in the 10b parts of Florida even and get knocked out every so often. They survive long term in the coastal areas around Miami, but that is 11a. I really think 10b/11a is the requirement for Cocos Nucifera. Otherwise you are protecting it every other year to keep it alive even in 10a.

This is not reflecting reality on the ground in Florida. Brevard county is swarming and dripping with coconuts galore all the way up to Cape Canaveral and Merritt Island. Ancient 9b, present 10a, new 10b whatever you want to call it...well north of Miami (200 miles). St. Petersburg and Clearwater are also full of coconuts. Not to mention everywhere 10a south of these points...yeah coconuts everywhere in the suburbs, along the roads, in the parking lots, at the apartments, at the businesses, absolutely everywhere. 

"Survive" long term in Miami, that's such a gross understatement....they are literally everywhere. Not just the coast but as far as the inland iguana infested suburbs go until they hit the edge of the Everglades. The furthest inland Miami suburbs look no different from the coast: a concrete jungle of coconuts, royals, foxtails, Adonidia, Veitchia, and Ptychosperma spammed ad infinitum. 
 

[UK_Palms]

7 hours ago, Xenon said:

This is not reflecting reality on the ground in Florida. Brevard county is swarming and dripping with coconuts galore all the way up to Cape Canaveral and Merritt Island. Ancient 9b, present 10a, new 10b whatever you want to call it...well north of Miami (200 miles). St. Petersburg and Clearwater are also full of coconuts. Not to mention everywhere 10a south of these points...yeah coconuts everywhere in the suburbs, along the roads, in the parking lots, at the apartments, at the businesses, absolutely everywhere. 

"Survive" long term in Miami, that's such a gross understatement....they are literally everywhere. Not just the coast but as far as the inland iguana infested suburbs go until they hit the edge of the Everglades. The furthest inland Miami suburbs look no different from the coast: a concrete jungle of coconuts, royals, foxtails, Adonidia, Veitchia, and Ptychosperma spammed ad infinitum. 
 

The fact of the matter is that Cocos Nucifera is not a zone 9 palm anyway and that is that. Even on the south coast of Spain along the Costa Del Sol in zone 10b they struggle. I have heard of several attempted over the years only to eventually succumb to the cool/mild and wet winters, or from a light frost event every 5-10 years. So they are not really viable in zone 10b in Europe even. I think even decent sized specimens have been planted out only to quickly decline over the course of 2-3 years.

There are some attempts at zone pushing them in the mildest island regions of the Mediterranean, like on Malta, Crete, Karpathos, Cyprus etc… but there are no mature specimens anywhere in Europe to my knowledge. The winters are just too cool and damp and the annual averages are too low even in borderline 10b/11a areas. Whether or not some small ones will reach maturity there in the coming years/decades is yet to be seen. I suspect the absolute mildest parts of the Med may be able to support them.

You really have to go to the solid 11a regions of the Canary Islands to see Cocos Nucifera however, which is geographically a part of Africa anyway there at latitude 27N. And it seems there is only one properly documented specimen surviving unprotected in SoCal at lat 32N in a 10b microclimate. Florida is a complexity and has much higher annual average temps than most zone 10 regions, as well as the advantage of being less wet/cool in winter, compared to Europe especially. I accept that they are present there in zone 10 regions of Florida, but that is a bit of an exception to the rule.

 

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

Florida is a complexity and has much higher annual average temps than most zone 10 regions, as well as the advantage of being less wet/cool in winter, compared to Europe especially. I accept that they are present there in zone 10 regions of Florida, but that is a bit of an exception to the rule.

 

Average mean temperature is more important than X or Y zone. If the mean temperature in January is above 20C/68F like South Florida, it's pretty much guaranteed that coconuts will be everywhere. 15C/60F +/- and they grow fine provided it's not freezing for long periods too often. Nowhere in continental Europe is going to come close to those winter mean temperatures otherwise Europe would be flirting with the tropical 18C isotherm. 

Yes, Florida has the perfect setup for extreme warmth for latitude. Miami's 25C average high in the dead of winter is the same as Da Nang, Vietnam at 16 degrees latitude. 

 

[ahosey01]

11 hours ago, Xenon said:

This is not reflecting reality on the ground in Florida. Brevard county is swarming and dripping with coconuts galore all the way up to Cape Canaveral and Merritt Island. Ancient 9b, present 10a, new 10b whatever you want to call it...well north of Miami (200 miles). St. Petersburg and Clearwater are also full of coconuts. Not to mention everywhere 10a south of these points...yeah coconuts everywhere in the suburbs, along the roads, in the parking lots, at the apartments, at the businesses, absolutely everywhere. 

"Survive" long term in Miami, that's such a gross understatement....they are literally everywhere. Not just the coast but as far as the inland iguana infested suburbs go until they hit the edge of the Everglades. The furthest inland Miami suburbs look no different from the coast: a concrete jungle of coconuts, royals, foxtails, Adonidia, Veitchia, and Ptychosperma spammed ad infinitum. 
 

One qualifier here is I think the occasional Cyrtostachys is growing along the coast and not inland.... not to split hairs....  😜

[Xenon]

18 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

One qualifier here is I think the occasional Cyrtostachys is growing along the coast and not inland.... not to split hairs....  😜

This one is growing about as far inland as you can get in Broward county! ....from some of your recent topics, you underestimate how warm Florida is as well 😝. I think it was the Adonidia topic? One of the most common palms all along the coast to Brevard and Pinellas county.....there are millions of them super overplanted waaaaaay north of Palm Beach

On 10/23/2019 at 7:00 PM, Palmarum said:

This is one specimen of the Cyrtostachys sp. 'Hybrid' growing in Jeff Searle's yard, as we toured it during the traditional 'Post Tour' after the Fall 'Ganza a couple weeks ago. I was looking through my photos and thought it could use its own topic before the regular topic is started. This is one of the more unique color forms I have seen among the hybrid complex and it is quite impressive when you see it in person. The colorful trunks are smooth and very glossy and the crownshafts are a perfect shade of orange-yellow. The tallest main stem was carrying an inflorescence, but it was difficult to photograph from the ground and not much in the way of detail could be discerned. To sum it up, it was weird looking. We could not tell if it had flowered, was flowering or was going to flower. A tall ladder was going to be needed for a better inspection and more photos. For now though, it was total eye candy.

- A view from the patio with Jim Glock for scale. The tour had just started and the palm was the second or third stop.

- Closer to the base and the diverse span of color. The clump was all suckers and no stolons. The trunks look like they had been air-brushed with paint and later buffed to a high shine. Since this palm took 29ºF (-1.7ºC) without any damage when it was a small plant, I wonder what it could handle now.

Ryan

 

[KPoff]

On 11/23/2024 at 12:33 AM, CascadiaPalms said:

Okay, I actually did extensive research into this....I think I have nailed it, but it seems like there is always someone who has a completely different experience.  Anywho, this is my list.  This are just the main players...aka the most popular palms.

 

Dude that accompanying music was sweet!

[KPoff]

On 11/23/2024 at 4:53 PM, Dwarf Fan said:

If you can get a PURE Filifera sure but good luck the vast majority of everything I see in Texas is some type of Filibusta mutt with a FEW pure W. Robusta and a few (mostly?) pureish W. Filiferas scatted here and there.

I was under the impression it is not easy to get a PURE Filifera in most states outside of Southern California.

Most Nursery people I have spoken with just toss around the Mexican or California Fan palm name willy nilly with no consideration if the Palm is actually a Robusta or Filifera or a Hybrid.

I haven’t even heard the term “Filibusta” used outside of Palm Talk. Most people know next to nothing about Palms outside of this forum in my experience.

I don’t know blood lines but I would say all the filifera from Big Spring through Pecos Texas are all pure filifera. They are very common and many very large and ole trees who have survived some cold 8A west Texas winters including 2021.

[ahosey01]

On 12/19/2024 at 10:23 AM, Xenon said:

This one is growing about as far inland as you can get in Broward county! ....from some of your recent topics, you underestimate how warm Florida is as well 😝. I think it was the Adonidia topic? One of the most common palms all along the coast to Brevard and Pinellas county.....there are millions of them super overplanted waaaaaay north of Palm Beach

 

In fairness I don't actually underestimate I just literally know nothing.  You would have to have a modicum of at least assumed knowledge to do that and I'm zilch in that world.

[Xenon]

42 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

In fairness I don't actually underestimate I just literally know nothing.  You would have to have a modicum of at least assumed knowledge to do that and I'm zilch in that world.

Time to go to Florida and buy some palms 🙂 !!! I think you were growing some fruit trees too? You gotta go during mango season...the premium varieties will blow your mind. Try Lemon Zest and Sweet Tart! 

[CascadiaPalms]

On 12/19/2024 at 12:48 PM, KPoff said:

Dude that accompanying music was sweet!

Thank you, I aim to please.  Videos should be informative and fun to listen to.

[Subtropical LIS]

On 12/18/2024 at 11:50 PM, Xenon said:

 

I double posted by mistake...see below.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Subtropical LIS]

On 12/18/2024 at 6:36 PM, UK_Palms said:

 

I might be wrong, but I don't think anyone is growing Cocos Nucifera in zone 9 man! 🤣 I'm certainly yet to see a zone 9 true coconut that has survived more than 2 back to back winters. Correct me if wrong.

At a push, you may get them in some zone 10b areas in the mildest microclimates of southern California (without protection), but they are really zone 11a and up palms. They hate temps below 40F and a once a decade freeze down to 25-30F in zone 10b will knock them out.

I don't think they do very well in the 10b parts of Florida even and get knocked out every so often. They survive long term in the coastal areas around Miami, but that is 11a. I really think 10b/11a is the requirement for Cocos Nucifera. Otherwise you are protecting it every other year to keep it alive even in 10a.

Not sure who or where you are getting this information from…but it’s totally incorrect. In fact, it’s not even in the ballpark of reality.  Again (gently),  just trying to educate about palm cultivation along the East Coast of the USA…nothing more than that.  I realize you're far from the USA, and there might not be many (accurate) sources of information. 

Coconut palms flourish in zone 10b Florida (and zone 10a) . This is the newer USDA zone map of Florida (for those who think they mean that much?):

 

Xenon is 100 % correct. Most zone 10b areas of Florida are “covered” with coconut palms. From Brevard County north to at least Cape Canaveral and Merritt Island (was 9b now 10a). In fact, because of development, there are some sections of 10b Atlantic Florida that have more coconuts that the 11a/b areas of south Florida. The arrow on the map shows Jupiter, FL (I took these pictures a few winters ago) …there are massive, fruiting, coconuts palms as far as the eye can see in every direction (#1 on map):

 

On the beach in Jupiter, FL:

 

 

This is the northern part of Hutcheson Island (10 a)…so many coconuts hang from the trees, that one has to be careful not to walk below on a breezy day (#2 on the map):

 

 

 

This is Coco Beach zone 10a (I surf in this location - so I’m here often). Coconut palms can be found in people’s yards and in some municipal plantings in many areas (#3 on the map):

 

 

 

 

On the West Coast (Gulf of Mexico side) …Coconut palms litter the landscape from Naples to St. Petersburg (zone 10a/b) – even washing ashore on St. Pete Beach and rooting. In the old neighborhoods where the retires and snowbirds live, 80-year-old coconut palms cover the landscape (#4 on the map):

 

I think one should understand the limitations of the zone map.  A hot tropical or semitropical area (even a subtropical area) that experices cooler weather on rare occasion, is not even close to the climatic equivalant of a much higher latitude highly marine controlled climate. Parts of the Aleutian Islands at 60 north (Alaska) are zone 7...but it's not the same zone 7  in New Mexico or New Jersey. 

 Finally, I agree (again) with Xenon…to say something like coconut palms "Survive" long term in Miami” is a gross understatement.... it’s like saying Pinus sylvestris survives long term in the climate of the UK. . Coconut palms wash up on the beach and seed naturally in southern Florida. What pines might be to the UK …the coconut palm is to South Florida.  They are part of the fabric of life in southern Florida.

 

[Las Palmas Norte]

TOP 10 Most Popular Hardy Palms (THE LIST)

 

Did Coconut palms make the 10 most hardy list? ... in someone's region? Seems way off topic. 

[frankcar1965]

This CIDP survived 0F four years ago in Shreveport Louisiana, and a week below freezing, it defoliates every few years, but obviously it doesn't bother it much, I wish they would clean it up, or maybe not, leave it alone before someone damages the trunk.

[MarcusH]

On 11/25/2024 at 4:38 PM, sonoranfans said:

yeah CIDP is also more cold tolerant than the mexican fan palm.  California fan palms(washingtonia Filifera) have survived long term in Las vegas nevada to 10F.  Some may die at 10 F.   Cold tolerance is dependent on the type of weather(desert, mediterranean, humid subtropical).  Desert palms like the california fan palm are more cold tolerant in the desert where they evolved.  They dont like wet roots in winter.  Most palms are more cold tolerant in the desert as overnight cold fades rapidly with the sun.   Duration of cold we have discuss several times.  Ive seen roystonea regia survive 18Fj totally defoliated but survived to grow back its crown.  That same day it was 18F it was 55F by noon.  I think the order is good except for the DCIDP which should be good to 15F and filifera to 12-14F. 

I live in a semi dry zone in San Antonio Texas.  We can grow a good amount of different palms.  The lowest temperature recorded is 5F in the 1980s and 9F in 2021. All California fan palms survived including CIDPS.  California fan palms can handle way colder temperatures than 12-14f over here. They went through ice and snow. 

[Banana Belt]

On 12/18/2024 at 3:36 PM, UK_Palms said:

I really think 10b/11a is the requirement for Cocos Nucifera. Otherwise you are protecting it every other year to keep it alive even in 10a.

I agree.  I live in the most northern 10a of North America and it is not warm enough long enough to grow a good coconut palm.  People have tried and the poor palms just struggle year after year where a 20 year old coconut palm looks like a 5 year old from the tropics.  In our 10a they don't die, but they don't really live either. 

What would live and perhaps thrive would be a Cocos Nucifera X Jubaea, or perhaps a Cocos Nucifera X Butia.  A Jubaea X Cocos Nucifera might be really something.