Lethal Bronzing in situ

[ahosey01]

Can anyone provide to me an known, verified, proven example of a palm that contracted lethal bronzing in situ, and was not transplanted at any point during its life other than during the seedling stage?

[ruskinPalms]

LB takes out native Sabal palms that grew through natural processes here though I do think it has slowed down a little thankfully 

[ruskinPalms]

Large pure unhybridized Phoenix species are pretty much instant death around here now. Feral Phoenix hybrids seem unaffected most likely because they have Pygmy date genes in them. Pygmy dates seem to be more resistant to LB

[RainforestCafe]

Exactly what @ruskinPalms said... in our area of Florida, you can see examples of 100% natural-grown Sabal Palmettos in the wild with the disease. I've seen them along the Manatee River infected. In my area and observations though, the Sabals don't seem nearly as vulnerable as Phoenix palms. You'll see a stand of countless Sabal Palmettos and maybe a couple will have the disease here and there. And the new installs of Sabal Palmettos in neighborhoods seem to have very high rates of survival.

But I don't know why they're still installing Phoenix palms in new neighborhoods. They die before the houses even get fully built.

[Jeff zone 8 N.C.]

9 minutes ago, RainforestCafe said:

And the new installs of Sabal Palmettos in neighborhoods seem to have very high rates of survival.

Any ideas on why this observation happens? Wild dug Florida S. palmetto have been shipped up to the N.C. coastal areas by the thousands (maybe thousands each year) for over 50 years and I worry that LB could be brought here.

[Hurricanepalms]

Hi @Jeff zone 8 N.C., From what I read in a few articles from the University of Florida, the primary insect vector for LB does not live in North Carolina. Here are two articles on the subject. 
 

LB Article: https://gardeningsolutions.ifas.ufl.edu/care/pests-and-diseases/diseases/lethal-bronzing-disease/

 

Article on the insect that spreads it: https://gardeningsolutions.ifas.ufl.edu/care/pests-and-diseases/diseases/lethal-bronzing-disease/

[ahosey01]

13 hours ago, RainforestCafe said:

Exactly what @ruskinPalms said... in our area of Florida, you can see examples of 100% natural-grown Sabal Palmettos in the wild with the disease. I've seen them along the Manatee River infected. In my area and observations though, the Sabals don't seem nearly as vulnerable as Phoenix palms. You'll see a stand of countless Sabal Palmettos and maybe a couple will have the disease here and there. And the new installs of Sabal Palmettos in neighborhoods seem to have very high rates of survival.

But I don't know why they're still installing Phoenix palms in new neighborhoods. They die before the houses even get fully built.

Around here, the feral Phoenix along the resacas etc. appear to be relatively disease free, as do pygmies and reclinatas.

[CascadiaPalms]

such a nasty disease I have to say...ouch! 😐

[Merlyn]

48 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

Around here, the feral Phoenix along the resacas etc. appear to be relatively disease free, as do pygmies and reclinatas.

I haven't seen any Pygmy or Reclinata with visible signs of LB...and there are TONS of pygmy dates here in the Orlando area.  I've been keeping an eye on some bigger Reclinata plantings too.  Even in areas with lots of Sylvestris deaths, there aren't many (if any) deaths of Queens, Pygmy dates, or even Sabals with visible signs of LB. 

I see a lot of Sabals with badly yellowed tips, typical of Magnesium deficiencies.  Initially when LB made its way into the northern Orlando area I was concerned about the giant forests of them around here.  There were areas with very orange-ish color on the old leaves that I thought could be LB.  But year after year they just keep churning out new leaves as the old leaves die off.  To be honest, I haven't seen a single Sabal here that died in a typical-looking LB fashion.  This is the three-month progression of the disease in a confirmed case, from the UFL/IFAS page.  It seems to be more Lethal Browning in Sabals instead of Bronzing:

[TropicsEnjoyer]

8 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I haven't seen any Pygmy or Reclinata with visible signs of LB...and there are TONS of pygmy dates here in the Orlando area.  I've been keeping an eye on some bigger Reclinata plantings too.  Even in areas with lots of Sylvestris deaths, there aren't many (if any) deaths of Queens, Pygmy dates, or even Sabals with visible signs of LB. 

I see a lot of Sabals with badly yellowed tips, typical of Magnesium deficiencies.  Initially when LB made its way into the northern Orlando area I was concerned about the giant forests of them around here.  There were areas with very orange-ish color on the old leaves that I thought could be LB.  But year after year they just keep churning out new leaves as the old leaves die off.  To be honest, I haven't seen a single Sabal here that died in a typical-looking LB fashion.  This is the three-month progression of the disease in a confirmed case, from the UFL/IFAS page.  It seems to be more Lethal Browning in Sabals instead of Bronzing:

I think pygmy’s and reclinatas are two of the most resistant Phoenix species in terms of LB. Haven’t heard of any dying from that. Pygmy is so common too, but most of them that die die from neglect. As for reclinata i don’t see many but all the ones ive seen are vigorous and healthy. Id love to have one.

[Jim in Los Altos]

On 12/5/2024 at 1:24 PM, ruskinPalms said:

Large pure unhybridized Phoenix species are pretty much instant death around here now. Feral Phoenix hybrids seem unaffected most likely because they have Pygmy date genes in them. Pygmy dates seem to be more resistant to LB

Bill, I witnessed huge group of Phoenix roebelenii all turn that telltale bronze color and die shortly after in the city of Cupertino, CA last year. It was a devastating death since the palms were an integral part of the shopping center’s landscape. A smaller group of them have survived so far. 

[RainforestCafe]

23 hours ago, Jeff zone 8 N.C. said:

Any ideas on why this observation happens? Wild dug Florida S. palmetto have been shipped up to the N.C. coastal areas by the thousands (maybe thousands each year) for over 50 years and I worry that LB could be brought here.

Not really sure, to be honest with you. I have a hypothesis though. 

I think it's because the sabals just don't really seem to be as vulnerable in general to the disease as the Phoenix palms are. And I think the other reason is that diseases always seem to hit the hardest on palms that are already struggling/acclimating, etc. Sabals are native to this region so they're not really trying to acclimate. They're perfectly suited for this area. They grow like weeds here. If I don't mow an area, I even have sabals popping up 😂 

Whereas many of the Phoenix palms tend to be from deserty, dry, arid areas and they're planted in humid wet Florida so my assumption is that also puts them at a disadvantage when it comes to fending off disease.

[RainforestCafe]

1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Bill, I witnessed huge group of Phoenix roebelenii all turn that telltale bronze color and die shortly after in the city of Cupertino, CA last year. It was a devastating death since the palms were an integral part of the shopping center’s landscape. A smaller group of them have survived so far. 

That's terrible. I've seen similar situations right down the street from me. Brand new neighborhoods with beautiful landscaping, numerous palms, and then the big centerpiece Phoenix Dactylifera all die. It's a shame.

[idontknowhatnametuse]

9 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I haven't seen any Pygmy or Reclinata with visible signs of LB...and there are TONS of pygmy dates here in the Orlando area.  I've been keeping an eye on some bigger Reclinata plantings too.  Even in areas with lots of Sylvestris deaths, there aren't many (if any) deaths of Queens, Pygmy dates, or even Sabals with visible signs of LB. 

I see a lot of Sabals with badly yellowed tips, typical of Magnesium deficiencies.  Initially when LB made its way into the northern Orlando area I was concerned about the giant forests of them around here.  There were areas with very orange-ish color on the old leaves that I thought could be LB.  But year after year they just keep churning out new leaves as the old leaves die off.  To be honest, I haven't seen a single Sabal here that died in a typical-looking LB fashion.  This is the three-month progression of the disease in a confirmed case, from the UFL/IFAS page.  It seems to be more Lethal Browning in Sabals instead of Bronzing:

I noticed that LB doesn't get transmitted to adjacent palms of the infected one. My Acrocomia has some sort of phytoplasma disease that looks like LB and there's tons of Haplaxius crudus (Vector) in my yard. Susceptible palms around it like Syagrus romanzoffiana, Attalea butyracea and Cocos nucifera have shown no signs of having the disease despite having a lot of H. crudus in the grass around them.

[TropicsEnjoyer]

@RainforestCafe Very true point. Sabals are at home and generally the population is not suffering much. They’re not hard to please either and seem to do well wild in the forests. If anything they do worse in cultivation , at least commercially. Another thing too maybe the bugs have fine taste, preferring exotic/introduced plants over boring natives 😂.