Palms for flooded areas

[Selgd]

Hi! I have an area in my garden that has poor drainage, the soil is basically clay and it has some stone underneath making water remain there after it rains, and the soil almost always holds at least a bit of moisture. I live in northern Spain, zone 10a with minimum temperatures of -2°C (28 F) , and it rains 1300 mm yearly, through the year, no wet and dry seasons here. I was looking for advice on which palm trees could adapt better to this situation. Maybe sabal palmetto? Some archantophoenix? I already have a Washingtonia robusta, a Phoenix canariensis, a Trachycarpus fortuneii and a Chamaerops humilis cerifera but they have better drainage and they are all growing well (though I had to apply antifungic to the Washingtonia in Spring). In the area I want to add some palms, I already have a Cyperus papirus which is huge,an Hesperantha coccinea, Zantedeschias aethiopicas, some alocasias and other water tolerant plants and I never need to water them, not even in summer. Any suggestions? TYIA!

[TomJ]

Hedyscepe...  Kentia... 

[Silas_Sancona]

Majesty,  Ravenea rivularis..  Name literally means " Grows near Rivers "

[Selgd]

23 minutes ago, TomJ said:

Hedyscepe...  Kentia... 

Thank you! I didn't know the Hedyscepe but I like it, it's a beautiful palm! I didn't consider the Kentia because all my garden is in full sun all day. Everything was planted this spring so I don't have a canopy yet, but will consider in the future.

[Selgd]

11 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Majesty,  Ravenea rivularis..  Name literally means " Grows near Rivers "

Thanks! I love that palm I didn't realize the meaning of the name. I can find some specimens relatively easy here.

[Silas_Sancona]

6 minutes ago, Selgd said:

Thanks! I love that palm I didn't realize the meaning of the name. I can find some specimens relatively easy here.

Other palm suggestions so far are just as great but, For me at least, Majesty palms check all the necessary boxes for something that is easy enough to find, and provides the look i'm after

Unique looking trunk that will attract more and more attention as they age.. 

Could easily pass for a Coconut  -For anyone didn't know the difference between / never seen either, ..or simply doesn't live where Coconuts will grow well / might not look " perfect " all year

..Tolerates quite a bit of cold,  -for such a " tropical " looking palm..

..and can tolerate those spots in a garden / landscape that might be a challenge for other easier to find palm options 

..And -for the moment at least- can be acquired fairly cheaply, at least here in the states ( No worries if i'm wrong but i'd assume they're a fairly inexpensive option elsewhere too )  ..And can grow at a decent clip when provided what they like ..Water and fertilizer..

Can't really think of much not  to like about em'
 

..Should've added Pygmy Dates ( Phoenix roebelenii ) as a candidate for your list of options too.. While tough enough to stand up to heat ( widely grown here in the desert where they tolerate our brutally hot summers,, if watered enough ) they look their best when grown where they have more access to moisture.  Never get too tall so they can fit into smaller spaces too.  Do have spine -like leaflets towards the base of the leafstalks, but aren't as " mean " as many of the other Phoenix -species of palms..

[Selgd]

6 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Other palm suggestions so far are just as great but, For me at least, Majesty palms check all the necessary boxes for something that is easy enough to find, and provides the look i'm after

Unique looking trunk that will attract more and more attention as they age.. 

Could easily pass for a Coconut  -For anyone didn't know the difference between / never seen either, ..or simply doesn't live where Coconuts will grow well / might not look " perfect " all year

..Tolerates quite a bit of cold,  -for such a " tropical " looking palm..

..and can tolerate those spots in a garden / landscape that might be a challenge for other easier to find palm options 

..And -for the moment at least- can be acquired fairly cheaply, at least here in the states ( No worries if i'm wrong but i'd assume they're a fairly inexpensive option elsewhere too )  ..And can grow at a decent clip when provided what they like ..Water and fertilizer..

Can't really think of much not  to like about em'
 

..Should've added Pygmy Dates ( Phoenix roebelenii ) as a candidate for your list of options too.. While tough enough to stand up to heat ( widely grown here in the desert where they tolerate our brutally hot summers,, if watered enough ) they look their best when grown where they have more access to moisture.  Never get too tall so they can fit into smaller spaces too.  Do have spine -like leaflets towards the base of the leafstalks, but aren't as " mean " as many of the other Phoenix -species of palms..

No, it's not expensive, I can find one in a 6 gallon pot, 6 ft 7 inch (including leaves, but it already has some trunk) for 110 € (like 116 USD I think). I like Phoenix roebelenii too, I wanted one in a pot for the porch but knowing it can manage water I may put in in the ground too. Thanks!

[Tyrone]

I live on a wet winter property, actually a swamp. Great in summer, a bit of a curse in a wet winter climate. How cold do you get and what are your winter average maximum temps. 

[Selgd]

4 hours ago, Tyrone said:

I live on a wet winter property, actually a swamp. Great in summer, a bit of a curse in a wet winter climate. How cold do you get and what are your winter average maximum temps. 

Minimum 28F. Winter average max temp 56 F, average min temp 45 F. This is in February, the coldest month here.

[Xerarch]

I would think that Archontophoenix cunninghamiana would do well for you, @Jim in Los Altos has a ton of them in his climate that I believe has a similar temperature profile to yours, and they seem to love copious amounts of water.

[Selgd]

10 minutes ago, Xerarch said:

I would think that Archontophoenix cunninghamiana would do well for you, @Jim in Los Altos has a ton of them in his climate that I believe has a similar temperature profile to yours, and they seem to love copious amounts of water.

Cool I have two seedlings that are one year old indoors. Not sure how fast they grow but I was thinking to add 2-4 different palms, so I can wait a bit and put one of them on the ground. Thanks 😊

[Brad52]

I’m primarily a bamboo bloke and with that I learned there is a difference between species that like lots of water and those that can tolerate wet feet-maybe palms similar?  Dunno, but worth pondering…

[ahosey01]

Yeah the majesty palm suggestion is a good one.  My yard is all heavy, heavy clay and the lawn is irrigated.  The palms that do best in the lawn for me, by far, are majesties.  Better even than Sabals and Phoenix roebelenii and Roystonea regia.  Majesty all day.

[Jonathan]

On 12/7/2024 at 4:24 AM, Selgd said:

Thank you! I didn't know the Hedyscepe but I like it, it's a beautiful palm! I didn't consider the Kentia because all my garden is in full sun all day. Everything was planted this spring so I don't have a canopy yet, but will consider in the future.

Neither of these  species would tolerate wet feet unfortunately, both like sharp drainage.

Livistona australis would absolutely thrive in your conditions.

[Selgd]

12 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

Neither of these  species would tolerate wet feet unfortunately, both like sharp drainage.

Livistona australis would absolutely thrive in your conditions.

Thanks! Will look into that one, it's gorgeous!

[Merlyn]

Sabals would definitely grow well there, the common Sabal Palmetto grows in swamps here in Florida.  They are fine being submerged 3' deep in muck water for months on end. 

For smaller palms you could consider some of the hardier Licuala.  Spinosa and Aurantiaca/Paludosa do well in part shade conditions, are pretty tough, and ok with being in swampy areas.  They are possibly ok with full sun, as long as the humidity is fairly high.  But they'll look a lot better with some PM shade.

Some tropical-ish semi-hardy palms will be fine with the ~28F low temperatures, especially if you don't get frost.  But they might not like average highs of ~56F during the winter.  Archontophoenix could work, but are not very frost hardy.   

[ahosey01]

1 hour ago, Jonathan said:

Neither of these  species would tolerate wet feet unfortunately, both like sharp drainage.

Livistona australis would absolutely thrive in your conditions.

This is a good suggestion, I find that there are a fair number of Livistona that do really well in the wettest parts of my garden.  Saribus, nitida, mariae and australis have all been winners.

[Jim in Los Altos]

5 hours ago, Xerarch said:

I would think that Archontophoenix cunninghamiana would do well for you, @Jim in Los Altos has a ton of them in his climate that I believe has a similar temperature profile to yours, and they seem to love copious amounts of water.

Ammon, She’s got a cooler climate but Archontophoenix should still do alright. More rain in her area is a plus. 
 

 

[Brad52]

I suspect this is a tropical only palm - Hydriastele rheophytica - but it loves wet tootsies…

[Bkue]

Roystonea or Ravenea

[Tyrone]

8 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Neither of these  species would tolerate wet feet unfortunately, both like sharp drainage.

Livistona australis would absolutely thrive in your conditions.

I agree with this completely. If you are on wet heavy clay, you would need to mound up with free draining soil both Hedyscepe and Howea. True they love water but not bad drainage. Livistona australis will take boggier soil than Howea and Hedyscepe but I’ve found even some of my L australis die in too wet conditions. Sabal minor and Sabal palmetto should handle cool wet conditions. Ravenea rivularis likes wet clay soil but not in heavy shade I’ve found. Full sun and wet soil is good for Ravenea rivularis. 

[Motlife]

Nikau (Rhopalostylis sapida) would do well for you, you're basically the exact antipode of the native habitat with a pretty similar climate to where they grow very well. They will handle full sun but generally prefer shade when young, growing up into sun, but they're pretty adaptable and shouldn't mind the clay 

[Selgd]

3 hours ago, Motlife said:

Nikau (Rhopalostylis sapida) would do well for you, you're basically the exact antipode of the native habitat with a pretty similar climate to where they grow very well. They will handle full sun but generally prefer shade when young, growing up into sun, but they're pretty adaptable and shouldn't mind the clay 

Thanks! I didn't know this one. It's beautiful!

[Selgd]

4 hours ago, Tyrone said:

I agree with this completely. If you are on wet heavy clay, you would need to mound up with free draining soil both Hedyscepe and Howea. True they love water but not bad drainage. Livistona australis will take boggier soil than Howea and Hedyscepe but I’ve found even some of my L australis die in too wet conditions. Sabal minor and Sabal palmetto should handle cool wet conditions. Ravenea rivularis likes wet clay soil but not in heavy shade I’ve found. Full sun and wet soil is good for Ravenea rivularis. 

It's a full sun spot, the R. Rivularis is winning so far 🤣

[Selgd]

10 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Ammon, She’s got a cooler climate but Archontophoenix should still do alright. More rain in her area is a plus. 
 

 

Great! Thank you! I have some Archantophoenix cunninghamiana and Archantophoenix tuckeri that I grew from seeds I collected in a travel to the Canary islands where I lived for 5 years. It would be a cool memento if they could grown on my garden. Now they are in pots indoors, they're still tiny.

[Selgd]

9 hours ago, Brad52 said:

I suspect this is a tropical only palm - Hydriastele rheophytica - but it loves wet tootsies…

Looks beautiful! I think it's 10b so it would be too tropical. Probably wouldn't like the long winters here even if they're mild.

[happypalms]

You could try linospadix monostachya they come from fairly wet areas. A raised garden bed will improve drainage for the palm while it will love the extra moisture available. The same for Johannesteijsmannia altifrons they love water with a raised bed once again the drainage is improved and a joey palm drinks more water than a drowning fish. Both palms fairly cool tolerant no frost but definitely cool tolerant both worth a try. 

[Merlyn]

@Selgd one thing that might make a difference is the amount of sun on a typical winter day.  Some palms would be fine with clear sunny afternoons and 55F, but struggle if it's always overcast or misty and 55F as a high.  I recall reading about some San Francisco people struggling with palms over the winter, only because their house was in a spot that stayed in "grey mist" for a good part of the year.  Is your house more on the "mostly clear" or "mostly grey" afternoons in winter?

Gijon is also coastal, so I'd expect that any palm would need to be at least a little bit salt-tolerant. 

[Selgd]

50 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

@Selgd one thing that might make a difference is the amount of sun on a typical winter day.  Some palms would be fine with clear sunny afternoons and 55F, but struggle if it's always overcast or misty and 55F as a high.  I recall reading about some San Francisco people struggling with palms over the winter, only because their house was in a spot that stayed in "grey mist" for a good part of the year.  Is your house more on the "mostly clear" or "mostly grey" afternoons in winter?

Gijon is also coastal, so I'd expect that any palm would need to be at least a little bit salt-tolerant. 

Well this would definitely be in the mostly grey area. There are some sunny days but it's mostly cloudy. Sometimes we don't see the sun in more than a week. And there's also high humidity, around 70-99% all year round. 

Gijón is coastal, but I live 10 km away from the sea (6.5 miles) and 75 meters above the level of the sea (not sure what to convert this, maybe 82 yards?). I don't know if I'm close enough to the sea to need the plants to be salt-tolerant. So far I'm not having issues with that.

[Jonathan]

Hi @Selgd, after reading through this thread again, your climate started sounding pretty familiar...see below.  Max temps are basically within 1c of mine all year, your min temps are slightly higher on average. Archontophoenix should grow easily for you and I'd definitely be looking for Rhopalostylis sapida for your wet area as suggested above.

I've never seen a healthy Ravenea rivularis in Tasmania, not enough summer heat I think, so I suspect you'd probably have the same issue...but you never know! 

[Selgd]

26 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

Hi @Selgd, after reading through this thread again, your climate started sounding pretty familiar...see below.  Max temps are basically within 1c of mine all year, your min temps are slightly higher on average. Archontophoenix should grow easily for you and I'd definitely be looking for Rhopalostylis sapida for your wet area as suggested above.

I've never seen a healthy Ravenea rivularis in Tasmania, not enough summer heat I think, so I suspect you'd probably have the same issue...but you never know! 

Oh wow! We have almost the same climate and so far away! That's pretty cool! Thanks for the advice! Archontophoenix is definitely one of the chosen ones because everyone here agrees it's going to grow well. I can't easily find the Rhopalostylis sapida but I'll keep searching. I may try a small Ravenea and see what happens, but it's suspicious that I've never seen one planted around here. It's also true that people here only have Phoenix canariensis, Trachycarpus fortuneii and Washingtonia robusta. I think no one bothers to investigate and have different plants and there's no love for palms either. Most people are letting their 50-100 year old Phoenix canariensis die instead of preventing red weevil because they don't even care. So sad.

[Motlife]

Ravenea seems to grow fine here at 41*S with average summer highs of 23 or 24,so I'd say it's worth a try. We do get ~2500 sunshine hours a year though, so maybe that's the difference between tassie, northern Spain and here? Still worth a shot. Strange that Rhopalostylis are not available, there's been plenty of threads of people in Britain trying them, I would have assumed they were grown in Spanish nurseries and ended up there! 

I am not quite sure how they would go in clay, but I suspect some of the fishtail palms (Caryota ochlandra, and maybe mitis) might do well for you too, and they're quite unique looking things 

[Selgd]

1 hour ago, Motlife said:

Ravenea seems to grow fine here at 41*S with average summer highs of 23 or 24,so I'd say it's worth a try. We do get ~2500 sunshine hours a year though, so maybe that's the difference between tassie, northern Spain and here? Still worth a shot. Strange that Rhopalostylis are not available, there's been plenty of threads of people in Britain trying them, I would have assumed they were grown in Spanish nurseries and ended up there! 

I am not quite sure how they would go in clay, but I suspect some of the fishtail palms (Caryota ochlandra, and maybe mitis) might do well for you too, and they're quite unique looking things 

Just checked, we have 1700 hours of sunlight here. But I will probably try, it might be enough. For Rhopalostylis I only find seeds, but maybe in spring or summer it's easier to get. 

I have a 1 year old Caryota mitis that I grew from seed. I may try it too if there's a chance, they look unique indeed.